Same. In that sense it will be the opposite of the indie referendum. Us young 'uns don't have the fear of migrants that older generations have and a lot of us have friends who wouldn't be here without the EU.
EU Referendum | UK residents vote today.
- Thread starter 711
- Start date
- Status
Indeed... The subtext to the whole argument is that win or loose Cameron is unlikely to serve a full term so Gideon vs Boris might as well start now
Pretty much. The parties with more 'Out' leanings will be the ones who generally have more older, conservative minded voters, too. Up here, most SNP voters will probably follow the party rhetoric...I don't know too many people other than myself who vote for them that might go for Out.
Pretty much. Boris or Osborne...it's a depressing thought when I might be relieved to see that hack of a chancellor as our next PM.
Yes, but will you youngsters turn out to vote in numbers?
I know Stan is a Brit living in Holland its in the posts on the last page. His motivation is clear and in direct opposition to mine. I have two sons in their early twenties and I don't want to see the UK crumble. So in reciprocity I'd like to say that if the UK leaves I hope he is forced to suck German cock for the rest of his life in order to make ends meet while the UK becomes a land he dreams of being able to afford to come back to...
If we stay in and things go badly.
Leave and things go well.
Leave and things go badly.
Stay and things go well.
Will anyone really know whether the staying or going had anything to do with either outcome?
I have been wondering if anyone will even notice a difference.
Indeed. Not for the short-term, either.
It surprised me how well the SNP did at mobilising the younger vote in the referendum (sadly not well enough as I'd love to see sturgeon and salmond squirming with the current oil price)
If the stay campaign can tap the youth vote the same it will put them in a very strong position.
I think they'll struggle to do so, though. The Yes vote managed to build a lot of momentum because they painted themselves as the underdogs; they spent most of the campaign behind in poll figures, and the managed to get a sort of anti-establishment rhetoric going against Westminster/the Tories, and even Labour. It was also fairly united - there were other small parties supporting independence, and lots of indy movements, but the SNP dominated it and were the central figures as far as independence went.
The 'stay' camp won't have that same rhetoric. They're the majority. They're the establishment. They're the status quo. Not to generalise, of course, but a lot of youth are generally perceived as being more receptive to change, and the 'stay' vote doesn't really offer that. You've got David Cameron as a central figurehead, who is about as establishment as you can possibly imagine.
You've also got the fact that there are a lot of cross-party divisions. Corbyn's Labour won't want to work too closely with the Tories. The SNP will try to distance themselves from the Tories. The Lib Dems will probably work with anyone, but they're an irrelevance now anyway.
Boris Johnson says UK is better off outside the EU
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-35626621
Think it's overblown his importance ,but no doubt a small boost for the leave group.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-35626621
Think it's overblown his importance ,but no doubt a small boost for the leave group.
why is that? to support all the euro-trash in Brussels?
I think until the base salary is the same across EU the 3 things you said will not work, free trade the Germans are the clear winners, movement of capital all the bigger banks will win and right to work isn't as easy as here in the states, I will keep the first 2 and completely abolish the "European government" and have the governments write the rules for the free trade and movement of capital. The euro was other mistake when is so high and benefits only Germany.
Anyone else feel safer in the EU? It's seemingly a lot more liberal & progressive than any Tory led government could possibly be, and that's my biggest deciding factor come the 23rd... Then again, honestly, I've never leaned towards leaving in the slightest.
Yeah a Tory government with free reign to scrap the Human Rights Act and such if they want. No thanks.
Yeah, that scares to living bejeezus outta me. Scares me even more how the out campaigners can use it as a net-positive for leaving... Yeah, no thanks.
If we do leave, and I hope we don't, I'll be interesting in seeing what happens to Cameron. Hopefully he takes a long walk off a short cliff.
I have to write a piece on this for our morning email alert. This is what I'm thinking. Urgh, HSBC full-year results tom too.
FTSE bosses back 'In' campaign; Boris says 'Out'
FTSE 100 bosses are on a collision course with London mayor Boris Johnson over a potential Brexit.
Up to half of the chairmen and chief executives of the blue chip index's constituents are expected to sign a joint letter in support of staying in the EU this week, according to a report by Sky. The news comes as Johnson, the Conservative MP for Uxbridge and South Ruislip, threw his weight behind the 'Out' campaign in his Sunday Telegraph column yesterday, following considerable speculation.
The campaigning on both sides is set to gather momentum after prime minister David Cameron set the 23 June date for the referendum at the weekend. The move followed three days of intensive meetings in Brussels as he attempted to gain further concessions from the EU.
According to Sky, the wording of the open letter from some of the UK's biggest employers was agreed with the prime minister's office. The signatories are believed to include GlaxoSmithKline chief executive Sir Andrew Witty, BT chief executive Gavin Patterson and Vittorio Colao, the CEO of Vodafone. The wording of the letter is expected to emphasise that the firms they represent 'employ hundreds of thousands'. It is also reported to say that exiting the EU 'would put the economy at risk', highlighting Cameron's efforts to 'reduce the burden of regulation'.
Protecting the City of London's interests has been a central plank of Cameron's attempts to renegotiate the UK's terms with Europe. It will therefore come as a blow that Johnson is backing the 'Out' campaign. The maverick MP said in his much-anticipated column that the referendum is a 'once in a lifetime chance to vote for real change'. He added that remaining in the EU would result in 'an erosion of democracy', but stopped short of criticising Cameron, praising him for 'doing his best' to secure a better deal.
The City is not united on staying in
FTSE 100 chiefs' decision to back the 'In' campaign has echoes of when the City grandees clubbed together to support the 'No' campaign during the Scottish independence referendum in 2014.
Then, as now, Standard Life has been a vocal player. In its full-year results on Friday, the group's chairman, Sir Gerry Grimstone, warned that Brexit would be 'potentially damaging' to the UK, adding: 'We believe that access to the EU single market is in the best interests of our customers and clients.'
However, it is easy to level the self-interest argument against big business. Realistically, how many finance directors at large multi-national employers would be expected to vote in a change that could result in a massive overhaul of their systems and processes?
That said, the nay-sayers do seem to be centred in Mayfair rather than the City. Billionaire hedge fund moguls Crispin Odey and Sir Michael Hintze, founder of CQS, are both ardent backers of the 'Out' campaign and are understood to have provided not insignificant financial backing.
How to spin the split?
Taking it at face value, the fact that the likes of Glaxo and Standard Life have put their muscle behind the 'In' campaign is arguably more valuable than Odey et al backing the 'Out' faction. Will the public be more swayed by two massive employers warnings of an exit or the perceived self-interest of a couple of hedge fund billionaires?
The fact that such intelligent people are so polarised on the issue only serves to underline the complexity of the decision. Is this really something best left to the man on the street?
FTSE bosses back 'In' campaign; Boris says 'Out'
FTSE 100 bosses are on a collision course with London mayor Boris Johnson over a potential Brexit.
Up to half of the chairmen and chief executives of the blue chip index's constituents are expected to sign a joint letter in support of staying in the EU this week, according to a report by Sky. The news comes as Johnson, the Conservative MP for Uxbridge and South Ruislip, threw his weight behind the 'Out' campaign in his Sunday Telegraph column yesterday, following considerable speculation.
The campaigning on both sides is set to gather momentum after prime minister David Cameron set the 23 June date for the referendum at the weekend. The move followed three days of intensive meetings in Brussels as he attempted to gain further concessions from the EU.
According to Sky, the wording of the open letter from some of the UK's biggest employers was agreed with the prime minister's office. The signatories are believed to include GlaxoSmithKline chief executive Sir Andrew Witty, BT chief executive Gavin Patterson and Vittorio Colao, the CEO of Vodafone. The wording of the letter is expected to emphasise that the firms they represent 'employ hundreds of thousands'. It is also reported to say that exiting the EU 'would put the economy at risk', highlighting Cameron's efforts to 'reduce the burden of regulation'.
Protecting the City of London's interests has been a central plank of Cameron's attempts to renegotiate the UK's terms with Europe. It will therefore come as a blow that Johnson is backing the 'Out' campaign. The maverick MP said in his much-anticipated column that the referendum is a 'once in a lifetime chance to vote for real change'. He added that remaining in the EU would result in 'an erosion of democracy', but stopped short of criticising Cameron, praising him for 'doing his best' to secure a better deal.
The City is not united on staying in
FTSE 100 chiefs' decision to back the 'In' campaign has echoes of when the City grandees clubbed together to support the 'No' campaign during the Scottish independence referendum in 2014.
Then, as now, Standard Life has been a vocal player. In its full-year results on Friday, the group's chairman, Sir Gerry Grimstone, warned that Brexit would be 'potentially damaging' to the UK, adding: 'We believe that access to the EU single market is in the best interests of our customers and clients.'
However, it is easy to level the self-interest argument against big business. Realistically, how many finance directors at large multi-national employers would be expected to vote in a change that could result in a massive overhaul of their systems and processes?
That said, the nay-sayers do seem to be centred in Mayfair rather than the City. Billionaire hedge fund moguls Crispin Odey and Sir Michael Hintze, founder of CQS, are both ardent backers of the 'Out' campaign and are understood to have provided not insignificant financial backing.
How to spin the split?
Taking it at face value, the fact that the likes of Glaxo and Standard Life have put their muscle behind the 'In' campaign is arguably more valuable than Odey et al backing the 'Out' faction. Will the public be more swayed by two massive employers warnings of an exit or the perceived self-interest of a couple of hedge fund billionaires?
The fact that such intelligent people are so polarised on the issue only serves to underline the complexity of the decision. Is this really something best left to the man on the street?
Not so much best left as essential. I can't see how anyone could think otherwise whilst believing in democracy.
??
I'm trying to think of a good headline, but a weekend of excess is working against me.
'The City versus Boris in EU 'In' 'Out' shakeout'?
Maybe cleaner?
Apologies, it's late, but your last line was 'Is this really something best left to the man on the street?'
I replied 'Not so much best left as essential. I can't see how anyone could think otherwise whilst believing in democracy.'
If it doesn't make sense I'll try again when I'm sober.
That line is probably patronising tbf. It almost implies it is best left to the self-interest of businessmen, bureaucrats and politicians.
Oh god, I'm turning lefty.
No problem comrade.
I've sat on the fence in classic journalistic waffle...
The fact that such intelligent people are so polarised on the issue only serves to underline the complexity of the decision. Is this really something best left to the man on the street? Or should we leave it to the self-interest of businessmen, bureaucrats and politicians? The one certainty is that unpalatable choices lie ahead.
That's good.
I'm not sure businessmen is very pc nowadays though.
Shit, I should have let you publish.
I'm not sure businessmen is very pc nowadays though.
Shit, I should have let you publish.
Might be better to focus on one of the two main points for the headline, whether it be Boris or the businesses staying in. Although that might not be possible if you've got to focus on both in the article.
It's kind of a catch-all round-article, given this all happened over the weekend. Headline is so key to traffic though- need sensationalist but obviously not to the point that the article doesn't deliver on it.
It's a news outlet's job to report on the news too, not have a view on it. We are all unbiased, presenting the facts so that our readers can decide
Although presenting facts that might please a reader called Murdoch could be a cunning strategy.
Indeed so, the price of membership runs into the billions, to say nothing of the political cost. And they dispense those monies on such essentials as: two parliaments, an unnecessary diplomatic service, billions of Euros in aid which they then lose track of, armed drones, propping up a flawed currency union e.t.c,
Would that be the same wondrous brand of liberality which Brussels and Berlin have visited upon the people of Greece? The 'project' will always come before the interests of the vulnerable, their well-being or democratic rights matter not one iota. Even with the evidence of recent years, supporters of nominally left-leaning parties continue to be among the EU's most devoted admirers, it's remarkable. Perhaps those of an authoritarian inclination see things they like, it can't be the organisation's caring nature that's for damn sure.
A citizen of the UK can change his or her government every five years, something of a democratic utopia when compared to the European Union: where they either make you repeat your referendum until the desired response arrives, or politicians subvert the democratic process entirely.
Last edited:
Boost for Leave as Boris turns back on PM; Cameron left playing FTSE with big business.
Naturally i would lead on the positive element to your story, @Jippy.
Naturally i would lead on the positive element to your story, @Jippy.
I like it.
Stopped at 'Brexit'.
Same salary only makes sense if costs of living are comparable... We can't even get London like the rest of the uk let alone Rural east Europe
Free movement of capital helps many companies... I'm about to buy a million euros of land to build a workshop on for my employer (now on hold till post referendum)
The euro rate is set by the market
I honestly don't see how right to work could be any more free for an eu citizen in th eu
I probably hate that term more than you, but it is a useful short headline device *grimace*
Not really, most just don't want to join the Anti-EU agenda because its discourse is dominated by right wing scare mongering such as 'Immigrants are overrunning us' or 'We're just funding those unworthy eastern European countries'. Most of the left across Europe agrees that the EU has big problems such as undemocratic structures, massive lobbyists influence or shady trade agreements like TTIP. Doesn't mean they have to jump on the identity/sovereignity losing, control immigration etc. train.
I'm not british so I can't vote anyway but I know I wouldn't support a campaign that is lead by bellends like Farage, Galloway or Boris Johnson. And let's face it: Leaving the EU won't make Britain more liberal, progressive or socially fair - like others said, it'll just give the Tories free reign to do what they want.
A research note this morning summed up my views on the subject.
aye...
probably going to give UKIP a massive boost in the local elections as well meaning we have to put up with even more of farrage for years to come
- Status