ESPN - Why Manchester United are still a mess under INEOS ownership

[Carlsen19]

Stop the dramatic. If you are able body and working you won’t make an argument that £60 bonus is make or break your Christmas.

I am able bodied and I work full time. £60 is a hell of a lot of money to me.

 

[HTG]

I mean the situation has already improved though so not sure that makes any sense.

You’re sitting at thirteenth, had no real new manager bounce, screwed up yet another transfer period and are now in the process of cutting Christmas bonuses to your normal employees, so you can pay out your expensive dof, who was fired a few months after being hired.
That looks disastrous to me.

 

[TheReligion]

Stop the dramatic. If you are able body and working you won’t make an argument that £60 bonus is make or break your Christmas.

£60 is a good amount of money.

That said, it’s a bonus, not a guaranteed payment.

Plenty of people get nothing extra at Christmas, and work all the way through it, so I don’t have much sympathy for those moaning given they are still getting more than many others!

 

[Shake Jism]

https://www.football365.com/news/ratcliffe-man-utd-glazers-laugh-mailbox

 

[TheReligion]

You’re sitting at thirteenth, had no real new manager bounce, screwed up yet another transfer period and are now in the process of cutting Christmas bonuses to your normal employees, so you can pay out your expensive dof, who was fired a few months after being hired.
That looks disastrous to me.

That’s because you’re short sighted and lapping up the tabloid narrative.

1) We have good football people in key roles in the club. No more Ed Woodward and co running operations.

2) We are addressing our finances to ensure we are compliant with FFP and can use funds in the right areas

3) We are finally pushing on with the new stadium/development, something needed for years but never bothered with by the Glazers

4) Our training facilities are in the process of being overhauled and brought up to date

5) We’ve just appointed a really highly rated progressive young coach

6) We are continuing to develop the academy and add exciting talent to the successful lower age groups

Early days but things are already moving at a good pace both on and off the pitch after years of stagnation.

 

[TheReligion]

@HTG you probably shouldn’t believe everything you read in the news

 

[HTG]

@HTG you probably shouldn’t believe everything you read in the news

Like?

 

[noodlehair]

Who cares if random people we have never met are losing out on £60 of a christmas bonus.

Its funny how other clubs can hike up ticket prices or charge obscene amounts for season tickets, or cut staff bonuses and you don't even see or hear a word.

United do a few of these things and the entire football world goes into a frenzy, making out like Sir Jim is Satan.

Rival fans truthfully don't care either but are pretending they care about the staff, they just want an excuse to shit on the club.

What are you on about?

No other club in the PL is or ever has charged £66 for a children's ticket. Even Arsenal don't do this.

Other team's fans caring is not them "wanting to shit on the club" if anything they might be worried about their club getting the same idea. If they want to shit on the club they can just laugh at pretty much everything else it gets up to.

No one is"making out" that Ratcliffe is Satan other than Ratcliffe. He has sacked half the staff, cancelled Christmas, apparently hates women and is exploiting children. It's pretty hard to talk about him at this point without acknowledging the fact he is a massive wanker.

You don't have to waste energy defending the indefensible just because it's associated with Man Utd.

 

[Jesper Olsen’s hair]

At the end of the day this whole situation is going to take time to sort out.

I’m just hoping that behind the scenes we’re getting some good people in. Not just on the football side!

 

[Lyng]

This penny pinching from Jim is pretty disgusting. He seems like the typical self made old billionaire cnut. United used to be a club that cared for their employees

 

[Sarni]

It’s not really about £60 and whether it will ruin someone’s Christmas or not, it is about silly penny pinching which doesn’t really achieve anything substantial in cost savings because it’s simply not designed to do that. It’s done so that all of those employees know who’s the boss now.

I’m personally not super fond of this old school ‘I will show you feckers how little your well being matters to me’ kind of management style but I understand how some people may some affection for that (especially if it doesn’t directly affect them).

Pretty sure next step will be to forgo annual salary increases in the next cycle (probably Q1, if they are happening in the first place but I presume like pretty much every corporation around they are).

 

[TheReligion]

Like?

Your posts

 

[TheReligion]

That’s because you’re short sighted and lapping up the tabloid narrative.

1) We have good football people in key roles in the club. No more Ed Woodward and co running operations.

2) We are addressing our finances to ensure we are compliant with FFP and can use funds in the right areas

3) We are finally pushing on with the new stadium/development, something needed for years but never bothered with by the Glazers

4) Our training facilities are in the process of being overhauled and brought up to date

5) We’ve just appointed a really highly rated progressive young coach

6) We are continuing to develop the academy and add exciting talent to the successful lower age groups

Early days but things are already moving at a good pace both on and off the pitch after years of stagnation.

What do you make of the above then? @HTG

Or do you suggest we’d be better off with the Glazers

 

[HookedOnAPhelan]

Jim seems like a bit of a dick tbh

 

[HTG]

Your posts

What about it is wrong? You’re not pointing me to anything.

 

[Sir Erik ten Hag]

Jim seems like a bit of a dick tbh

Which billionaire is not, anyway?

 

[duffer]

Jim seems like a bit of a dick tbh

A Brexit supporting, billionaire Tory Chelsea fan is a dick?

I don't believe you.

 

[Carolina Red]

This is the story line from National Lampoon’s Christmas Vacation.


Dude is actually replacing bonuses with the jelly of the month club.

 

[noodlehair]

This penny pinching from Jim is pretty disgusting. He seems like the typical self made old billionaire cnut. United used to be a club that cared for their employees

I mean, he was exactly that before buying United, as well as being aggressively right wing, with a documented history of treating employees ajd people's wellbeing like shit.

I don't know why anyone is even remotely surprised other than because they jumped on the pro Ratcliffe bandwagon without bothering to have the slightest clue who he is.

 

[noodlehair]

What do you make of the above then? @HTG

Or do you suggest we’d be better off with the Glazers

I mean half of those things there's no actual evidence we have done. You are just hoping they turn out to be true.

Points 1 and 2. One of the "Good football people" helped oversee City's compliance with FFP so well they only breached it 130 times...think I'd file that one under "lets wait and see" as well.

Personally I don't really think treating children as a way to exploit people and treating every human being associated with the club like garbage is a worthwhile trade off for being better on the pitch, even if there was a link between the two, which at this current moment there is zero evidence that there is.

 

[Lyng]

I mean, he was exactly that before buying United, as well as being aggressively right wing, with a documented history of treating employees ajd people's wellbeing like shit.

I don't know why anyone is even remotely surprised other than because they jumped on the pro Ratcliffe bandwagon without bothering to have the slightest clue who he is.

No that's true and as many of us pointed out: Nice and Lausanne where not exactly encouraging examples of Jimmy and Brailsfords prior work in football.

 

[Bon1803]

Losing site of the bigger picture. This pathetic penny pinching will lower morale from the ground up.

If the lower level staff are happy it will translate to the players. I know this sounds minor but these little things can go a long way.

When SAF was in charge he knew everybody by name.

If the players had anything about them they would step in and open their fat wallets. These cost savings wont make any impact they are targetting the wrong areas. I understand the down sizing of staff numbers if the rota is bloated but to lower Christmas bonuses is pretty low. It may not seem a lot of money for some and yes its a bonus so should not really be counted on but the people in some of these roles will count on it, thats not on Utd its just side product of terrible goverments and wealth distribution.

 

[Lyng]

Losing site of the bigger picture. This pathetic penny pinching will lower morale from the ground up.

If the lower level staff are happy it will translate to the players. I know this sounds minor but these little things can go a long way.

When SAF was in charge he knew everybody by name.

If the players had anything about them they would step in and open their fat wallets. These cost savings wont make any impact they are targetting the wrong areas. I understand the down sizing of staff numbers if the rota is bloated but to lower Christmas bonuses is pretty low. It may not seem a lot of money for some and yes its a bonus so should not really be counted on but the people in some of these roles will count on it, thats not on Utd its just side product of terrible goverments and wealth distribution.

Don't think it's fair to blame the players when the cnut behind these Scrooge McDuck measures is a literal billionaire

 

[TheReligion]

I mean half of those things there's no actual evidence we have done. You are just hoping they turn out to be true.

Points 1 and 2. One of the "Good football people" helped oversee City's compliance with FFP so well they only breached it 130 times...think I'd file that one under "lets wait and see" as well.

Personally I don't really think treating children as a way to exploit people and treating every human being associated with the club like garbage is a worthwhile trade off for being better on the pitch, even if there was a link between the two, which at this current moment there is zero evidence that there is.

Erm what?

 

[TheReligion]

What about it is wrong? You’re not pointing me to anything.

Ok. You are just trolling then and not actually interested in discussion. As you were.

 

[HTG]

Ok. You are just trolling then and not actually interested in discussion. As you were.

So I wrote this:
„You’re sitting at thirteenth, had no real new manager bounce, screwed up yet another transfer period and are now in the process of cutting Christmas bonuses to your normal employees, so you can pay out your expensive dof, who was fired a few months after being hired.
That looks disastrous to me“

You sitting at thirteenth is a fact.
The lack of a new manager bounce is also a fact, I think.
The screwed up transfer window is a subjective thing. You might very well disagree here.
You cutting Christmas bonuses is another fact.
You having to pay out a dof you have hired a few months before is also a fact.

To this you replied I shouldn’t believe anything I read on the news. I have asked you where I was wrong, meaning which of the mentioned things I shouldn’t have believed from the news. You have refused to answer that, mentioned a few factors in another post that don’t really do anything to disprove what I’ve written, and asked me wether I believe you’d be better off with the Glazers, something I have never even touched.
I’m confused, to say the least. But I can live with that.

 

[The holy trinity 68]

What are you on about?

No other club in the PL is or ever has charged £66 for a children's ticket. Even Arsenal don't do this..

Before the season started, the cheapest adult season ticket for Man United was £579.

For comparison, the cheapest for some other clubs was the following;

Arsenal £1073
Spurs £856
Chelsea £810
Liverpool £713
Newcastle £662
Villa £640
Bournemouth £633
Fulham £619
Brighton £595

Yes prices have gone up, but United fans have been lucky that prices have been om the low side for a long time.

You don't see the media and rival fans etc in uproar about Arsenal or Spurs tickets, but United prices are just an excuse for everyone to kick off. Its fashionable to have a dig at everything United does.

 

[Bon1803]

Don't think it's fair to blame the players when the cnut behind these Scrooge McDuck measures is a literal billionaire

Im not blaming the players , simply stating they could make a difference. If my memory serves I remember that the players used to chip in for things for club employees.

 

[TheReligion]

INEOS Look like terrible owners to me and I have a hard time imagining that your situation will improve due to them.

So you posted this.

I then pointed out a number of things they have made progress on in the club. Things the Glazers haven’t touched and let fester for years.

You then ignored all these points and continue to go on about an M&S Christmas voucher.

Forgive me for thinking you are being disingenuous.

 

[Trophy Room]

Sometimes the small things matter. Good vibes are so important. We are done as an institution.

 

[Oldyella]

INEOS Look like terrible owners to me and I have a hard time imagining that your situation will improve due to them.

They needed to be brought in as the previous owners had empties the cupboards. It would be hard for things not to improve. On the pitch will take time.

 

[HTG]

So you posted this.

I then pointed out a number of things they have made progress on in the club. Things the Glazers haven’t touched and let fester for years.

You then ignored all these points and continue to go on about an M&S Christmas voucher.

Forgive me for thinking you are being disingenuous.

Because you refuse to answer which part of my post is wrong. You said literally that I shouldn’t believe everything the media writes. To me that suggests that you think I, purposely or not, spread some sort of misinformation. Which is an accusation I take seriously. So I asked you repeatedly what part of what I have written is wrong, so I could retract or change that part. At no point at all did you even try to address this question. Instead you mentioned a bunch of other factors you like about your new owners. Which is fine and all. But it does absolutely nothing in regards to explaining to me what is supposed to be wrong about my post. If you disagree with my opinion, that’s absolutely fine. But if that’s all there is, and it’s increasingly looking like this to me, don’t suggest that I fell for some sort of fake news, just because you don’t like my opinion. Because doing so and then calling me a troll is pretty wild and ironic.

 

[Champ]

Do people realise that the club is losing money?
Getting big contracts/money off the books will be priority for Ineos without doubt, small things like bonus reductions are standard for a business not making money.

 

[HTG]

They needed to be brought in as the previous owners had empties the cupboards. It would be hard for things not to improve. On the pitch will take time.

Could be. But the reality is that things could very well stagnate or get even worse. And so far, the new ownership doesn’t give me reason for confidence. And stuff like this Christmas bonus, small as it seems, is a red flag for me, personally. Because I do believe that the atmosphere at your club isn’t that good. Treating your staff like that, seems like blind action for the sake of it to me and bears the potential for worsening the situation.

 

[TheReligion]

Because you refuse to answer which part of my post is wrong. You said literally that I shouldn’t believe everything the media writes. To me that suggests that you think I, purposely or not, spread some sort of misinformation. Which is an accusation I take seriously. So I asked you repeatedly what part of what I have written is wrong, so I could retract or change that part. At no point at all did you even try to address this question. Instead you mentioned a bunch of other factors you like about your new owners. Which is fine and all. But it does absolutely nothing in regards to explaining to me what is supposed to be wrong about my post. If you disagree with my opinion, that’s absolutely fine. But if that’s all there is, and it’s increasingly looking like this to me, don’t suggest that I fell for some sort of fake news, just because you don’t like my opinion. Because doing so and then calling me a troll is pretty wild and ironic.

You have dropped in to the United forum to tell us that INEOS are going to be terrible owners.

You have been given several points which suggest they are making some positive moves at the club, considering they havent even been here 12 months, yet you are honing in on M&S vouchers and being 13th in the table as evidence of your validity.

A bit stupid. Right?

 

[HTG]

Do people realise that the club is losing money?
Getting big contracts/money off the books will be priority for Ineos without doubt, small things like bonus reductions are standard for a business not making money.

Valid point. However I’d argue that the staff who are affected by this have a huge reason to be angry, as their bonuses are merely a drop in the ocean compared to the fiasco with your new former dof. If I worked for you, I’d be absolutely livid because of this. You’re management is basically asking your staff to make up for their gigantic lack of operational prudence. That has potential to backfire. It would be differently, if those in charge acted with more care and due diligence when they are dealing with millions, instead of doing so when it’s about thousands.

 

[HTG]

You have dropped in to the United forum to tell us that INEOS are going to be terrible owners.

You have been given several points which suggest they are making some positive moves at the club, considering they havent even been here 12 months, yet you are honing in on M&S vouchers and being 13th in the table as evidence of your validity.

A bit stupid. Right?

So you really just claimed that I spread misinformation and will in no way explain yourself further. I must say that’s some weak shit.
I will happily continue the discussions with others in here. But I’ll end it with you.

 

[Champ]

Valid point. However I’d argue that the staff who are affected by this have a huge reason to be angry, as their bonuses are merely a drop in the ocean compared to the fiasco with your new former dof. If I worked for you, I’d be absolutely livid because of this. You’re management is basically asking your staff to make up for their gigantic lack of operational prudence. That has potential to backfire. It would be differently, if those in charge acted with more care and due diligence when they are dealing with millions, instead of doing so when it’s about thousands.

I disagree with this entirely.

Cost cutting is happening from the top down, staff size has been reduced, new contracts will be more thought out than previously, transfer spending will undoubtedly be more prudent.
People can't be expected to get things the same in a failing business just because their costs are reduced, that's not how businesses work unfortunately.

 

[TheReligion]

So you really just claimed that I spread misinformation and will in no way explain yourself further. I must say that’s some weak shit.
I will happily continue the discussions with others in here. But I’ll end it with you.

You’re not engaging in discussion. I gave you several points to challenge your opinion yet you chose to ignore them hence my belief you’re disingenuous.

 

[NZT-One]

You have dropped in to the United forum to tell us that INEOS are going to be terrible owners.

You have been given several points which suggest they are making some positive moves at the club, considering they havent even been here 12 months, yet you are honing in on M&S vouchers and being 13th in the table as evidence of your validity.

A bit stupid. Right?

Just as "stupid" as indicating somebody spreads misinformation. The other poster has a point on that.

Valid point. However I’d argue that the staff who are affected by this have a huge reason to be angry, as their bonuses are merely a drop in the ocean compared to the fiasco with your new former dof. If I worked for you, I’d be absolutely livid because of this. You’re management is basically asking your staff to make up for their gigantic lack of operational prudence. That has potential to backfire. It would be differently, if those in charge acted with more care and due diligence when they are dealing with millions, instead of doing so when it’s about thousands.

I think, you are overstating the meaning of those things. As others have pointed out, the club has been bloated and made use of - big salaries for next to nothing in return for players, big money actions higher up while failing on the pitch leaving the impression that the business side of the club is almost separated from the football team. From what you hear, way more staff than comparable clubs while at the same time still lacking in output and performance. A new management needed to step in to stop this bleeding. I am fairly sure, even Saudi or Qatar would have done so. I agree with you, I would be livid when my christmas bonus is taken away while watching expensive mistakes higher up unfold. No question but it doesn't matter in the big picture unfortunately. If too many of them are unhappy, I am pretty sure the management is ready to say goodbye to them as it will be able to find new ones. Thats not me saying this is good, or ideal or whatever, but it is what it is. And this is the mindset, our competitors running under as well.