I've watched both play enough, Christensen is probably better on the ball but he's kind of the same mediocre level defender as the rest of the lot we have.
ESPN - Mourinho wants to sign Skriniar and Romagnoli in Jan
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I've watched both play enough, Christensen is probably better on the ball but he's kind of the same mediocre level defender as the rest of the lot we have.
I just saw this. Wow this is really going to have an impact in January. However. Inter are in a strong position in their group. Can't really see him leaving.
So not ruling it out then
Add De Ligt and Koulibaly to the list. Any two of the 4 would be a massive coup. Jones and Rojo (and maybe even one more CB) out. With CBs like that and an attack minded manager, the club's whole ethos could change overnight.
I am just going to point out that in his lone season under Benitez, Koulibaly looked clumsy and terrified on the ball. 4 months with Sarri and he was so confident on the ball he started taking needless risks like he thought he was Franco Baresi
Of course having a CB who is really good with the ball at his feet, who can play difficult passes and basically act like an added midfielder when needed is a plus, and no amount of coaching is going to turn Smalling into Sergio Ramos. But improving a player's confidence and composure is something that can be coached.
I guess what i'm trying to say is, stay away from Skriniar
Of course having a CB who is really good with the ball at his feet, who can play difficult passes and basically act like an added midfielder when needed is a plus, and no amount of coaching is going to turn Smalling into Sergio Ramos. But improving a player's confidence and composure is something that can be coached.
I guess what i'm trying to say is, stay away from Skriniar
@Ekeke Genuine question, do you think we should only buy one CB and continue with Smalling as a first 11 starter?
It doesn't fit the "Poor Jose wasn't backed" narrative of Neville and a few of his acolytes, but it sounds very feasible, especially given the bar Liverpool set with the fee they paid for a CB from a mid table team.
I was going to mention the rule change when I saw your first post but as it stands Inter are more likely to qualify from their CL group then we are from ours.
I am just going to point out that in his lone season under Benitez, Koulibaly looked clumsy and terrified on the ball. 4 months with Sarri and he was so confident on the ball he started taking needless risks like he thought he was Franco Baresi
Of course having a CB who is really good with the ball at his feet, who can play difficult passes and basically act like an added midfielder when needed is a plus, and no amount of coaching is going to turn Smalling into Sergio Ramos. But improving a player's confidence and composure is something that can be coached.
I guess what i'm trying to say is, stay away from Skriniar
You have Varane! Stop being greedy
❤Not ruling it out for that bumper new contract he feels he probably deserves off the back of our interest. This is how it usually works isn't it?
Not sure about Inter's finances but can they pay him anywhere near what we can? We are pretty high on the scale when it comes to paying obscene wages, it's why we struggle to shift players.
No need to match us. If the players wants to stay, he will be happy to get the maximum what Inter could pay.
TBF i'd like to get away from picking up mercenaries moving forward. If somebody is only joining because we are offering them shitloads more than they can get elsewhere, then its a firm DO. NOT. WANT. from me. We're Manchester United for feck sake, I appreciate we're not everybody's dream destination but we should surely be able to put out a decent 11 of players who would rather be playing here than anywhere else shouldn't we?
I am just going to point out that in his lone season under Benitez, Koulibaly looked clumsy and terrified on the ball. 4 months with Sarri and he was so confident on the ball he started taking needless risks like he thought he was Franco Baresi
Of course having a CB who is really good with the ball at his feet, who can play difficult passes and basically act like an added midfielder when needed is a plus, and no amount of coaching is going to turn Smalling into Sergio Ramos. But improving a player's confidence and composure is something that can be coached.
I guess what i'm trying to say is, stay away from Skriniar
Yes, you are right. We should not sign any top class centre backs because Jose might not get anything out of them
I would have thought you do not have the money to go for expensive centre backs? Don't you first have to sign an attacking frontline? And besides, Ramos isn't done yet...
Of course, if he's happy where he is and just wants a raise then that's it, and right now we couldn't really cite ambition as a reason for him to move as we are well off our old standards.
It's going to be so hard to tell though, some players see football as a business, they aren't swayed by boyhood dreams and stuff like that, they want to get the biggest deal possible, it doesn't mean that they wont be superb profressionals and performers for your club though, their mentality is just cold business.
While I agree with you, unfortunately I feel like it’s not same anymore, it feels like most players all they care about is money, besides, look at city’s squad, I wouldn’t want to miss out on kdb, silva, sane, etc, they all went to city for the money. It’s just that’s how it is nowadays.
I would like Romagnoli. He isn't as spectacular or as physical as Skriniar, but he'd be perfect for Smalling and for us - more than Skriniar. Left-footed and naturally left-sided, he exudes such grace that is not so common among CBs, excellent positioning, brain and skill - quite similar to Nesta. He'd be more difficult to get, but if we ever have a chance of getting either Skriniar or him, I'd do anything to get Romagnoli.
I love Romagnoli too. However, I wonder if he would fare well outside Italy. There's something of a Materazzi or Darmian vibe in him. Skiniar and Koulibaly are more suited for the EPL game.
I think the vibe is because the three are italians.
The Epl is not as physical these days and even the bottom clubs now play some intricate stuff. Romagnoli should be able to handle the physical part whilst possessing something our other CBs can only dream of. If anything, I feel Skriniar is rather the one that might struggle with us. We need something different.
Not really. There are Italian players you'll know they would be a success in the EPL. Baggio, Gattuso, Zola, Del Piero, Vialli, Buffon and Ravanelli to mention a few. Then there are those whom you feel that the serie A is too ingrained into them to do well elsewhere
Forward passes from the CBs :
I would have used our game with Spurs, but we had 3 CBs compared to 2 each here. It would have been the best comparison due to strength of opponents. Had to pick a 2 CB game though, so :
On these screens you can see the number of forward passes from the players with checked boxes to the right of those boxes.
34 Laporte & 59 Stones
51 Lovren & 56 VVD
And then for us
36 Lindelof & 29 Smalling
Something that also needs to be considered though is that City played 15 more passes in general. So its highly likely that one of their players is going to make more passes than ours, in any position.
With Liverpool its close, they played 515 and we played 513
In this match Lindelof played more forward passes than Laporte. And Smalling 5 less for a team that played 15 less passes. Not much difference at all with Laporte in this match.
What about other positions though?
Thats how many forward passes were played by our players in this match against Burnley
So Mendy played 21 more forward passes than Shaw in these particular matches
Gomez played 12 more forward passes than Valencia in these particular matches
Fellaini, Pogba and Matic all played more forward passes than Liverpool or City in these matches other than Henderson
Lingard, Sanchez and Lukaku all played more forward passes than Liverpool or City in these matches
So its definitely the defense thats one of the reasons we play a few less forward passes than the best teams in the league. But its not just the CBs. The fullbacks are even further off the numbers of some of their positions at Liverpool and City. While Lindelof was ahead of 1 of them and Smalling isnt far behind 1 of them - which considering all the blame thats put on him about passing, is a bit surprising.
Against Newcastle both Smalling and Shaw played a lot more forward passes and so did the team in general. Both played more than Young. Bailly only played 19 mins so that explains such a low number.
Shaw played the most forward passes in the entire team, 1 more than Pogba. And Smalling played the 3rd most of our team.
Perhaps the valencia match here is the best example of us playing a 2 at the back against a fairly good team :
Smalling played plenty from CB, more than Bailly and not a huge amount less than Liverpool's or City's did when they played each other. A decent amount behind Stones and VVD, but quite close to Lovren and 14 more than Laporte.
Valencia made much more than his previous screenshot and Matic played a lot too.
Smalling has a reputation but its not fair. Its mostly a myth. While he's definitely not as good as Stones, or VVD on the ball that doesnt make him bad on the ball. City and Liverpool only have 1 player here making a lot more forward passes from CB than Smalling.
So adding 1 player who can make around the same amount as they do and putting them next to Smalling will surely help. But sometimes the fullbacks arent making as many as our rivals either.
I didn't get a chance to reply for this but cheers for the analysis, its quite insightful!
I do think the other centre backs make more adventurous passes down the middle though. I'm guessing these stats also include passes that are basically horizontal but on an upward incline? I've seen Smalling do a lot of that
It will be interesting if we actually muster a bid for any of these centre backs, I think the board and Jose are far too disjointed for anything to materialise.
I think we will qualify. Young boys is a six pointer. And we should be able to manage at least a draw at Valencia regardless of the juve results.
I didn't get a chance to reply for this but cheers for the analysis, its quite insightful!
I do think the other centre backs make more adventurous passes down the middle though. I'm guessing these stats also include passes that are basically horizontal but on an upward incline? I've seen Smalling do a lot of that
It will be interesting if we actually muster a bid for any of these centre backs, I think the board and Jose are far too disjointed for anything to materialise.
Yep of course. Any forward pass counts, even if its just to Matic a few yards in front. I see now that you can actually select midfield and final third passes, wish I realized that at the time
But as a quick look at the Newcastle game, it looks like this :
As you can see down the bottom right, I've selected mid third and final third passes only. By clicking on Smalling's passes I can see that most of them are a good 15-20 yard passes from the back, however that doesn't show if they were passes that went past an opponent for example. Newcastle could have been sitting off and Smalling playing the ball 15 yards into midfield with low chances of losing the ball. But I dont think theres any way to see more than this.
So anyway, the number for the Newcastle game is 39 passes into midfield and attack. Again Bailly came off in the first half. But Smalling played more of those passes than Ashley Young.
That's the same way I feel, but with a slight shift in perspective. You're correct, if a player doesn't want to come that is one thing. My idea of stupid here is saying you'll pay a world record fee for a galactico but penny pinch 10-15 mil on a more well thought suggestion from the manager. Penny
Sounds like we're on the same page about wanting more astute business from the club. I feel like the players we missed the last few windows (Perisic, Maguire) were achievable but instead Woodward was shy about spending another 10-20 million or at all for these guys. Yet supposedly he was ready to shell out on a truly unachievable player like Varane. I agree if Skirinar is not open to the move personally we shouldn't spend too much time there. My worry is even if he were able to be convinced by Jose , the club wouldn't do their best to get him because he isn't yet galactico type profile. Penny wise, pound foolish ya know?
You are right except to be perfectly honest, Maguire isn't good enough and his club were asking a ridiculous fee. I think the club was right not to sign him and I think he would have been a panic buy.
Also we offered 65m euros for Skriniar in the summer, so it seems we were willing to pay the money for him if available.
I don't really know why we had to go and brief the press re Varane and 100m, pretty stupid, but the idea that we only spend money on "galacticos" when we have spent quite substantial sums of the past 4/5 years and we haven't even signed a galactico is a bit of a strange narrative. Ok maybe you could count Pogba Sanchez and Di Maria, but for instance we also just spent 50m on a player from the Ukranian league. We have been signing plenty of players who are not deemed galacticos, so its not really fair to act like the club only spend on those signings.
I don't pretend to know what happened with Peresic, but overall Jose has got nearly every player he has asked for. 4/4 first summer, 3/4 second summer, this summer is the one where he didn't get the player and I don't think it was due to being tight with the purse. I get the feeling we would have been able to sign Toby had Spurs got a replacement (they signed no one) and Maguire the club didn't deem him to be significantly better than what we have (I would agree with them) £65m+ for him on would have been a ridiculous panic purchase, given he wasn't even on the radar as a target during the summer and prior to the world cup.
I think it's really frustrating when we don't close a deal, but it doesn't necessarily mean we did something really wrong.
The main issue for me seems to be the the profiles of the players we are identifying. Either too difficult to sign e.g Bale / Varane or way on the other side of the scale and not really god enough e.g Lindelof Renato Sanches (lucky escape).
Why were we not linked with someone like Pavard for instance who apparently had a release clause and is a really good talent.
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Varane & Aldeweireld are two different kettle of fish.
One is a defender who has proven himself at UCL & World Cup levels of the game whilst having the best years still in front of him. Aldeweireld is a world class defender who had proven himself at PL level, with him being a year or two at max of any use to United with him also being slightly injury prone. Something after the Sanchez transfer we should worry about.
If we changed our defensive target to the likes of skiriniar, romignoli, Koulibaliy - that's good work in my opinion & more in line with going for a player like varane than it is aldeweireld.
One is a defender who has proven himself at UCL & World Cup levels of the game whilst having the best years still in front of him. Aldeweireld is a world class defender who had proven himself at PL level, with him being a year or two at max of any use to United with him also being slightly injury prone. Something after the Sanchez transfer we should worry about.
If we changed our defensive target to the likes of skiriniar, romignoli, Koulibaliy - that's good work in my opinion & more in line with going for a player like varane than it is aldeweireld.
Amoyal claims the defender said he wanted to stay in one of his replies to the comments.
They are good defenders but will Mourinho even get to January?
Would need to sell a few CB's but I do think a leader at the back is the most urgent requirement.
Someone that could play 50 games a season and control the backline.
Not got that at the moment, I think with the right player some of our current crop of players would go up a level or two.
But there is no consistency in this current defence, not just in the way they're playing but whose playing.
One day it's young at LB and Valencia at RB the next it's Young at RB, Shaw at LB with McTominay and Smalling in defence or 3 in defence or Smalling and Lindelof or Jones and Bailly or Jones and Rojo.
That is just as big a problem as not having enough quality or a leader.
And to conclude, I think until this team gets a settled defence it doesn't really matter who we buy.
Someone that could play 50 games a season and control the backline.
Not got that at the moment, I think with the right player some of our current crop of players would go up a level or two.
But there is no consistency in this current defence, not just in the way they're playing but whose playing.
One day it's young at LB and Valencia at RB the next it's Young at RB, Shaw at LB with McTominay and Smalling in defence or 3 in defence or Smalling and Lindelof or Jones and Bailly or Jones and Rojo.
That is just as big a problem as not having enough quality or a leader.
And to conclude, I think until this team gets a settled defence it doesn't really matter who we buy.
Seem like no-brainer signings, even if Mourinho went the next manager would want them regardless.
That's the question..
You just read my mind. Was about to post something like that
These next 5 or so games are make or break for the season. If he gets past these games with acceptable results he will stay. otherwise I expect him to be sacked by the time the next international break comes around.You just read my mind. Was about to post something like that
You guys trust ESPN's reports? According to them Mou was fired on Monday.
What is the actual point in discussing these rumors? It's a bloody waste of time. Spend the time on something that matters in your life.
He won't be sacked.
He'll get some great signings in January. We won't win the league, because too little too late. We will go semi finals in the CL (maybe more depending on the signings).
My predictions.
What is the actual point in discussing these rumors? It's a bloody waste of time. Spend the time on something that matters in your life.
He won't be sacked.
He'll get some great signings in January. We won't win the league, because too little too late. We will go semi finals in the CL (maybe more depending on the signings).
My predictions.
We won't be in top 4, because Mou is not good enough to get us there this season. We won't reach CL semis, my prediction.
So Mou was good enough to get us 2nd last season, but not top 4 this season? If we don't get there, do you think that Perisic and Harry from Leicester would have made a difference?
Do you also think that if Mou spent the 300+million difference that Pep had spent, we would be a better team?
If we did not discuss thing like this I am not sure what the point of this forum would be.
No point giving him another transfer window. We will be out of top 4 contention come January.
Yes Mou was good enough to get us 2nd last season and he is not good enough to get us in top 4 this time around. He was bad enough to have us kicked out of CL by Sevilla, and he is bad enough to have us in mid-table so early into the season. I do not think Perisic and Maguire would have made significant difference as Jose is yet to show he can get the best out of who he bought and inherited. I also believe that the 3rd season syndrome is not a myth, but an evidence of Mou's character and manners related to management and coaching in football.