ESPN: Man United want evolution, not revolution under Erik ten Hag - sources

bosnian_red said:
You're being dramatic. We could have a window of:
  • Antony
  • Tchiuameni
  • Darwin
  • Timber
  • Johnstone
And that would do wonders for our team. Or swap Antony and Tchouameni to Kamara and Frenkie De Jong. We don't know how it'll shake up yet. We have a good sized budget to make the changes we need for year 1 of Ten Hag. We are never going on make the change in 1 window. We start with this, and then year 2 make the next stage of changes (fullbacks and goalkeeper IMO).
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I am not sure we can buy 5 players, maybe only 4 players if we are lucky after raising more cash from players sales.

We only have 100-150m fund to buy, which may not be enough to cover for the first 3 players in your list.
 
I'd be shocked if we got 150m.

I also would fire the entire board if we tried to bring in 10 players at once. Thats not how you build a team.

I want to see youth given a chance and also 3-4 solid transfers come into the FIRST ELEVEN.

We should be able to get top four if we actually sign a functioning midfield. We can do so now that some of our deadwood are off the books forever.
 
Jibbs said:
150 million is a lot of money if spent wisely. Let’s say get Tchouameni for 60 m. Get Kamara free or if he really wants Frankie, get him in exchange deal. Get one of Raphinha or Antony for around 40. Get Nunez for around 80 and generate funds through sales.
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Maybe those players wouldn't want join us? And we are left with last min bid on Rice for 150m.
 
Nytram Shakes said:
The problem is we can’t afford a CB 2xCM and a striker in 1 window as that would likly be over 200 million and we don’t really have any players that are sellable assets (most of the players leaving will do so on a free, players like martial & Henderson will only get loan moves cos of there wages, or injury history and wages (Bailey) and other players we might want to sell have no value (like Jones).

Personly think it’s unlikely we will sign a centre back this summer. I suspect we will get a striker, DM and then one offer player probably a utility player and that will be it.
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I think if we are clever enough, we can get the players required. There are alot of players that are on a free this summer. I think with some of the loan players coming back, it might help. I wonder how Mengi will do over the pre season.

We have seen Ten Hag not scared to play young CB's, he has done it with De Ligt and now Timber.

I reckon Martial stays or we sell him, there is no point loaning players that will not be part of this team.
 
AFC NimbleThumb said:
Which is the issue. If the club had spent £1,000,0000 on quality that was underperforming then fine but a number of the squad simply are not good enough. In the short term you can’t gut the whole squad like Football Manager but forcing any manager to get the tune out of poor players isn’t fair.

There’s some improvement to come from the players but I honestly don’t see anyone in this squad being integral to a successful United side/squad. He’ll turn some players round but just look at City & Liverpool’s squad; they’re completely different to the ones each manager took over. If we go on to compete & win things they’ll be very few of todays squad around to do so.
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I think you'd be surprised how many can be successful. A top quality manager can get an average player looking really good is what we need.
 
Seeing that ten Hag himself has said that he joins club only after his conditions are accepted, I’m sure that whatever we are learning of our transfer plans right now are already known to him. So, I think he is fine with this. Unless the board are already plannng on reneging on the promises they’ve made to him, which would not be surprising, tbh.
 
romufc said:
I think if we are clever enough, we can get the players required. There are alot of players that are on a free this summer. I think with some of the loan players coming back, it might help. I wonder how Mengi will do over the pre season.

We have seen Ten Hag not scared to play young CB's, he has done it with De Ligt and now Timber.

I reckon Martial stays or we sell him, there is no point loaning players that will not be part of this team.
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Yeah I think due to the number of out goings on free there will be an opportunity for players like Mengi, Pellistri to be part of the squad next season.

Personally, I think if Martial leaves it will only be loan, his form at Seville and with us over recent years means no team are going to pay his wages and a fee. So he will stay if Ten Hag thinks he needs him to make up the numbers or we may look for a loan move to try and increase his value.
 
Luffy said:
Seeing that ten Hag himself has said that he joins club only after his conditions are accepted, I’m sure that whatever we are learning of our transfer plans right now are already known to him. So, I think he is fine with this. Unless the board are already plannng on reneging on the promises they’ve made to him, which would not be surprising, tbh.
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How often do bosses in any job say a load of crap about the company in an interview for it to not even be remotely the case when the job starts.
 
I see 4 signings as a bare minimum to give ETH a good start. A lot of players should leave this summer, so depending on whether we get european football or not we could be very thin as a squad.
 
If evolution means utilising a combination of currently loaned out players and promising youth players then fine I will be down with that
 
amolbhatia50k said:
We shouldn't bonkers and sell everyone but a possession based manager taking over a counter attacking team cannot just continue what is left by his predecessor. Changing a style needs some major rework.
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I dont think that was the plan for either of them, but that was the tools they had..
Ten Haag is perfect for building on it. We are three years in that rework, mate.
 
RedRonaldo said:
I am not sure we can buy 5 players, maybe only 4 players if we are lucky after raising more cash from players sales.

We only have 100-150m fund to buy, which may not be enough to cover for the first 3 players in your list.
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Darwin, Timber, Antony, Kamara on a free and Sam Johnstone on a free to be a backup goalkeeper (or similar) is a window i can see happening, and that's with a 150m budget. Swap Antony with De Jong or Tchouameni (in that case we don't get Kamara). We'll need more next year, but this summer it really should be something like 3 clear starters and Timber as a 4th player, with the 5th being a backup GK to replace Henderson.
 
No chance we'd be signing Rice or any other well known English player then.
 
Why does everyone has us signing a CF who contributes nothing in the buildup?
 
romufc said:
I think you'd be surprised how many can be successful. A top quality manager can get an average player looking really good is what we need.
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We’ve a squad full of never have beens that people think have a level to reach they’ve never actually attained is my point. I agree there’s more to come from multiple players, but there’s no evidence to say these players can sustain being really good. I could see a Jordan Henderson or 2 type emergence happening but Ralf didn’t say it’ll take up to 10 players lightly.

See someone like Shaw, who’s been at the club for 7/8 years under 4 managers now. LvG criticised him, Jose criticised him, OgS bought Telles which triggered a purple patch in him but he returned to the mean, Ralf has gone between him & Telles. At what point does we say we know who/what a player is & move on. I can see Shaw getting the new manager boost under EtH too but we’ve enough evidence to know he won’t maintain the levels required/offer the output required.

In the short term the players you mention will improve but any sustained success will come without the majority of them.
 
The statement doesn't make sense.

Evolution implies building or improving on something already there - except we have nothing, no platform, no plan, no real structure. We've spent the last decade with a banker tosser playing football manager with disastrous effect. How exactly are we looking to 'evolve' on that?

Not going to get caught up on semantics, but the point is we need a fresh start - rip the structure up, bring in new blood, and do things vastly differently to what we've been doing.
 
For once it seems the club is taking the correct approach.

We're not in the Champions League so we don't need a big squad.

A striker and 2 midfielders should be plenty for next season and Ten Hag can improve the performance levels of the rest.

It would be foolish to sell the players at knockdown prices this summer when Ten Hag will be able to get them to perform better and raise their value next summer.
 
bosnian_red said:
Darwin, Timber, Antony, Kamara on a free and Sam Johnstone on a free to be a backup goalkeeper (or similar) is a window i can see happening, and that's with a 150m budget. Swap Antony with De Jong or Tchouameni (in that case we don't get Kamara). We'll need more next year, but this summer it really should be something like 3 clear starters and Timber as a 4th player, with the 5th being a backup GK to replace Henderson.
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Well, you are assuming we could buy all our first choice in good price. In reality, its never as easy as it seems, as there are other competitors in market for these players too, for example, Newcastle has lots of funds to spend to hijack our signings. There are also Real Madrid, PSG, City or Liverpool who might be interested in some of these players. We don't even have CL football next season, nor do we have extra money to attract those players.

Also, you are assuming all our singings would be a hit. Unfortunately, I don't think any manager could achieve 100% hit rate on players transfer. Not Fergie, not Pep, not Klopp, so definitely not ETH too.

Its good thing to be overly optimistic with new manager and possible signings, but you also need to consider the reality side of it. Just think about all the signings we've made in the past 7 years, and all the moneys we've spend (over 1 billions). Many of them do look good at first look but later become flops. There are countless examples of them.
 
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AFC NimbleThumb said:
We’ve a squad full of never have beens that people think have a level to reach they’ve never actually attained is my point. I agree there’s more to come from multiple players, but there’s no evidence to say these players can sustain being really good. I could see a Jordan Henderson or 2 type emergence happening but Ralf didn’t say it’ll take up to 10 players lightly.

See someone like Shaw, who’s been at the club for 7/8 years under 4 managers now. LvG criticised him, Jose criticised him, OgS bought Telles which triggered a purple patch in him but he returned to the mean, Ralf has gone between him & Telles. At what point does we say we know who/what a player is & move on. I can see Shaw getting the new manager boost under EtH too but we’ve enough evidence to know he won’t maintain the levels required/offer the output required.

In the short term the players you mention will improve but any sustained success will come without the majority of them.
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I do get what you mean, we have seen alot of evidence from the players, they do well with a new manager then downtools when they need to go win the league or a cup.

In an ideal world we need two new full backs but that wont happen, we need to try get Shaw going and hopefully Dalot or Laird step up.

There are some players like AWB who I dont think it will matter who the coach is, will be poor footballers.
 
Should Ten Hag come first, asses the players, then sell the ones he does not need?
Or should he just give the board a list of the players he does not want from day one based on his video assessments of the players and RR past 6 months assessment?
 
This was always about the quantity of players that could be realistically purchased given the budget constraint. I believe as long as the right quality of players are brought in, then the rest can be supplemented by the young players who are ready to step up. LVG's first window should remind everyone large numbers of signing doesn't necessarily improve squad quality.

I just hope they prioritize the right positions. For me DM, CM and RW are the most important positions. I don't see the need for a Striker with Ronaldo staying, Martial most likely also staying and I personally believe Greenwood is most likely going to be reintegrated into the squad. A CB I don't necessarily see as a priority, because all of Maguire, Lindelof and Varane are going to be part of the squad next season ( and I personally expect significant improvement from all 3 next season because they are not as bad as their showing this season suggests).

Full backs in truth are not good enough but I think compared to the gaping hole in midfield they should be futher down the list of priorities and a RW significantly balance our attack. A summer window of Tchouameni/Bissouma, De Jong/ Enzo Fernandez, Antony along with the promotions of Hannibal, Garner, Laird and if possible Alvaro Fernandez is good business I think.
 
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Bottom line is Matt Judge and his office are too stupid and incompetent to manage more than 2 or 3 deals a window.
 
Kaos said:
The statement doesn't make sense.

Evolution implies building or improving on something already there - except we have nothing, no platform, no plan, no real structure. We've spent the last decade with a banker tosser playing football manager with disastrous effect. How exactly are we looking to 'evolve' on that?

Not going to get caught up on semantics, but the point is we need a fresh start - rip the structure up, bring in new blood, and do things vastly differently to what we've been doing.
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I think there was statement from Paul Hirst that United board chose Ten Hag partly because of his track record of improving players and there is hope that the new manager will give the club’s underperforming stars a new lease of life. Bruno Fernandes, Raphaël Varane and David de Gea are viewed as world-class players around whom the team can be built (According to the article) and also there is hope at United that Marcus Rashford and Scott McTominay will shortly be hitting their peak years and, with the right coaching, Jadon Sancho is expected to develop into an outstanding winger. In addition, United also believe that Ten Hag will be able to nurture the raw talents of Anthony Elanga, Hannibal Mejbri and Alejandro Garnacho.

I think United hired ETH and expected him to try to build his team around Varane, DDG, Bruno, Rashford, McT, and Sancho as well as developing Elanga, Mejbri and Garnacho.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/...c?shareToken=fbd1879fb151c78a5235c920ea6ed68d
 
RedRonaldo said:
Well, you are assuming we could buy all our first choice in good price. In reality, its never as easy as it seems, as there are other competitors in market for these players too, for example, Newcastle has lots of funds to spend to hijack our signings. There are also Real Madrid, PSG, City or Liverpool who might be interested in some of these players. We don't even have CL football next season, nor do we have extra money to attract those players.

Also, you are assuming all our singings would be a hit. Unfortunately, I don't think any manager could achieve 100% hit rate on transfer too.

Its good thing to be overly optimistic with new manager and possible signings, but you also need to consider the reality side of it. Just think about all the signings we've made in the past 7 years, and all the moneys we've spend (over 1 billions). Many of them do look good at first look but later become flops. There are countless examples of them.
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Yeah but what's your point? That applies to every club, ever. You don't sign 3 strikers if you need 1 striker on the basis that 1 or 2 don't work out. You make your signings, hope it works. If not, you try again the next window or make do if there are bigger weaknesses to address. 150m is plenty to have a good window and start our rebuild. I'd expect Ten Hag to improve a lot of what we have as well. And then reassess and address issues that come up or players that aren't good enough and are the new weaknesses next window.

No point in being all doom and gloom because we aren't signing 10 players in 1 window. It's entirely normal and expected. The only thing of note in the entire article is our budget is 100-150m, and that's a good, normal amount.
 
romufc said:
I do get what you mean, we have seen alot of evidence from the players, they do well with a new manager then downtools when they need to go win the league or a cup.

In an ideal world we need two new full backs but that wont happen, we need to try get Shaw going and hopefully Dalot or Laird step up.

There are some players like AWB who I dont think it will matter who the coach is, will be poor footballers.
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Agreed, it won’t be overnight & some players simply won’t cut it. AWB in a EtH team would be pure comedy.
 
bosnian_red said:
Yeah but what's your point? That applies to every club, ever. You don't sign 3 strikers if you need 1 striker on the basis that 1 or 2 don't work out. You make your signings, hope it works. If not, you try again the next window or make do if there are bigger weaknesses to address. 150m is plenty to have a good window and start our rebuild. I'd expect Ten Hag to improve a lot of what we have as well. And then reassess and address issues that come up or players that aren't good enough and are the new weaknesses next window.

No point in being all doom and gloom because we aren't signing 10 players in 1 window. It's entirely normal and expected. The only thing of note in the entire article is our budget is 100-150m, and that's a good, normal amount.
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No point in being overly optimistic either.

Next season we may not have the squad to compete for top 4, so don't get our hopes high, it will take at least 3 years for the whole rebuild process, from the pile of shit we have this season.
 
Ralf made us look more desperate by saying we need a lot of players, the board don't want us looking desperate for business reasons, so they briefing only 3 signings

Not buying it, we will sign more than 3
 
We need to be looking at players who are on a free or just 1 year on their contract or players who could soon be relegated. We can't be going about our business at £50-60m a pop. With a net spend of £150m we can make 5-6 signings and improve the squad a lot, if we are smart with it.

amolbhatia50k said:
Why does everyone has us signing a CF who contributes nothing in the buildup?
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CF options are very thin, and he's been routinely linked with us.
 
If we don't do all the changes quickly and trust a manager to build something new completely, the lines get blurred and we'll be a side full of compromises, like this one. In his third year, he will be judged "fairly" as not good enough, or at the least he will lose support.
 
So Grant, Matic, Pogba, Lingard, Mata and Cavani are gone for sure.

Jones, Pereira and Martial should be sold for money if at all possible, or else simply released. I understand that it would cost a lot to release Martial 2 years early, but surely a compromise could be found whereby we pay him off a certain amount, and then just set him free in some woods to find his way elsewhere.

Henderson, Williams, Wan-Bissaka, Bailly, Telles, Tuanzebe and Rashford are all players we could get money for and any offers should be actively encouraged. We obviously won't sell all of them, and many of them wouldn't fetch much, but if we could make £20-30m there and invest it in somebody who will actually contribute to the side it would be a massive improvement.

Clearing house is what's important this summer. I'd prefer to see us ship out 15 players and play kids next season, rather than keep the current squad and add high profile names like Rice and Kane to it.

Realistically, we'll see something between the 2. Getting rid of the first 9 names above and maybe a couple more from the 3rd list, adding a quality left sided centre back, 2 shrewd signings like Kamara and Laimer in the midfield and a quality young centre forward, would constitute a progressive and promising first window under Ten Hag.
 
DomesticTadpole said:
Think Varane looks class, but at times looks like someone constantly coming back from injury. A lot of our problems come from the fullback positions, either getting caught out positionally when teams attack, not watching where players are, but also they seem to be the ones who get caught out when offside comes into play. As I have said AWB is a good defender but not for a team who want to be on the front foot, he would struggle getting into that Palace side now.
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Awb is not even a good defender. His only attribute is his sliding tackle. Beside that he is a clown


amolbhatia50k said:
Ronaldo doesn't really suit possesion play either. A properly functioning system doesn't happen on its. Having players that suit it helps and having those that don't are a hinderence.
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No but he is not one of the biggest problem and is gone in a year anyway. City for example is even more possession based, and is going after Haaland for example for his goal treath. A new cb, fullbacks, 2 cm and a winger is more important imo. A modern keeper is needed as well.
 
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Kush said:
We need to be looking at players who are on a free or just 1 year on their contract or players who could soon be relegated. We can't be going about our business at £50-60m a pop. With a net spend of £150m we can make 5-6 signings and improve the squad a lot, if we are smart with it.



CF options are very thin, and he's been routinely linked with us.
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I'd rather go for a stop gap who fits the system tbh. A CF whose weaknesses lie in the buildup doesn't appear to suit possesion football.
 
RedRonaldo said:
No point in being overly optimistic either.

Next season we may not have the squad to compete for top 4, so don't get our hopes high, it will take at least 3 years for the whole rebuild process, from the pile of shit we have this season.
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Despite this season being an absolute shitshow we're still competing for top 4 even with vastly out of form players and 2 incompetent managers.

2 new CMs to replace Pogba, Lingard and Matic and striker to replace Greenwood and Cavani should be plenty to get us top 4 with Ten Hag's coaching.

If Chelsea stay at this level or Man City and Liverpool drop to what Chelsea's level is this season then we should compete for 3rd.
 
Random Task said:
What do they even mean by evolution?
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It means very little change and maintaining the status quo.
Revolution means tearing up the current playbook and re-writing it based on what the most successful clubs are doing.

I have said in many threads that I do not believe there will be much improvement.
I believe ETH will be fired in 3 years after he too, fails.
We will continue handing out contract extensions to players who are terrible at playing the game and continue awarding the highest wages to players who are not worthy.
Matt Judge should be fired immediately - he is terrible at his job. This guy negotiates player contracts. He is so bad at negotiating, he'd probably end up paying £100 for a £1 bar of chocolate and think he made a good deal.
It astounds me that fans know more about football than club officials. And when we finally get a man who knows heaps about football and can direct the club properly (Ralf R), they don't listen to him!
 
amolbhatia50k said:
I'd rather go for a stop gap who fits the system tbh. A CF whose weaknesses lie in the buildup doesn't appear to suit possesion football.
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We have a stop-gap CF in Ronaldo on our books. Who is good for another season, especially with no CL football.

He's not an amazing hold up player, but his link up play is still sharp. Especially if we have a proper functioning system in place where players actually move and show for the ball.
 
Kush said:
We have a stop-gap CF in Ronaldo on our books. Who is good for another season, especially with no CL football.

He's not an amazing hold up player, but his link up play is still sharp. Especially if we have a proper functioning system in place where players actually move and show for the ball.
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Ronaldo doesn't really suit possesion play either. A properly functioning system doesn't happen on its. Having players that suit it helps and having those that don't are a hinderence.
 
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