ESPN: Man United want evolution, not revolution under Erik ten Hag - sources

We were never going to do a mass clear out in one window anyway realistically.
We have enough leaving on free transfers as is without wholesale selling of contracted players.

That will be next summer.
 
amolbhatia50k said:
Ronaldo doesn't really suit possesion play either. A properly functioning system doesn't happen on its. Having players that suit it helps and having those that don't are a hinderence.
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Ronaldo is good enough to adapt to a system. His touch isn't a liability and he can still pass the ball.

Folks really over-estimate this perfect system player, there isn't one. Good players adapt to it. Ronaldo isn't a hindrance to this mythical possession play.
 
amolbhatia50k said:
Ronaldo doesn't really suit possesion play either. A properly functioning system doesn't happen on its. Having players that suit it helps and having those that don't are a hinderence.
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This must be one of the weirdest takes I have seen so far. A player with the most ever goals cannot play in a team that keeps possession.

You do realise, majority of the teams he has played in keep possession? Manutd SAF times, Real, Juve ? He played under Sari who kept possession and scored goals.

Ronaldo is someone who can play in different styles, even this season he has got goals in no system under Ole and Ralf.
 
Long Time Red said:
Despite this season being an absolute shitshow we're still competing for top 4 even with vastly out of form players and 2 incompetent managers.

2 new CMs to replace Pogba, Lingard and Matic and striker to replace Greenwood and Cavani should be plenty to get us top 4 with Ten Hag's coaching.

If Chelsea stay at this level or Man City and Liverpool drop to what Chelsea's level is this season then we should compete for 3rd.
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I am not sure if you have been watching us for the last few weeks, but we are not competing for top 4 and we are not going to compete for 3rd anytime soon. Perhaps you are living in an alternative universe?

In case some "fans" are unaware of where we are:

19d00e077048e0bc5662dc054069c9df.png


And here's the form table (based on last 6 games). We are in 16th thanks to Ronaldo's hattrick.
We will drop further down after the game against CFC.

d2beebb78f75909fec3184456c7ae653.png
 
Long Time Red said:
Despite this season being an absolute shitshow we're still competing for top 4 even with vastly out of form players and 2 incompetent managers.

2 new CMs to replace Pogba, Lingard and Matic and striker to replace Greenwood and Cavani should be plenty to get us top 4 with Ten Hag's coaching.

If Chelsea stay at this level or Man City and Liverpool drop to what Chelsea's level is this season then we should compete for 3rd.
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Except we are no longer competing for top 4 though. We actually belongs to top 6-8 tier now, alongside with West Ham and Wolves (who might still finish above us). We have +2 goal difference this season (similar to Palace, ranked 14th in table), and we are losing Pogba, Lingard, Mata, Cavani, Greenwood etc. on top of that.

Our collective football belongs to mid low table range, only our individual brilliance (Ronaldo, De Gea) saves us from getting there.
 
RedRonaldo said:
Except we are no longer competing for top 4 though. We actually belongs to top 6-8 tier, alongside with West Ham and Wolves. We have +2 goal difference this season, and we are losing Pogba, Lingard, Mata, Cavani, Greenwood etc.

Out collective football belongs to mid low table range, only our individual brilliance (Ronaldo, De Gea) saves us from getting there.
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As of about a week ago?
You are acting as if the likes of Arsenal and Spurs are top sides that we couldn't have competed with if we had a good enough manager
 
sunama said:
I am not sure if you have been watching us for the last few weeks, but we are not competing for top 4 and we are not going to compete for 3rd anytime soon. Perhaps you are living in an alternative universe?

In case some "fans" are unaware of where we are:

19d00e077048e0bc5662dc054069c9df.png


And here's the form table (based on last 6 games). We are in 16th thanks to Ronaldo's hattrick.
We will drop further down after the game against CFC.

d2beebb78f75909fec3184456c7ae653.png
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Well aware of the league table, but Arsenal also recently lost 3 in row.

If we had a better manager it's not infeasible we still finish 4th from here.

Competing for 4th doesn't mean you end up finish 4th.

If we were in Arsenal's position, we'd still be worried they could catch us.
 
sunama said:
I am not sure if you have been watching us for the last few weeks, but we are not competing for top 4 and we are not going to compete for 3rd anytime soon. Perhaps you are living in an alternative universe?

In case some "fans" are unaware of where we are:

19d00e077048e0bc5662dc054069c9df.png


And here's the form table (based on last 6 games). We are in 16th thanks to Ronaldo's hattrick.
We will drop further down after the game against CFC.

d2beebb78f75909fec3184456c7ae653.png
Click to expand...

Wonder what it looked like before Tuchel took over at Chelsea
 
RedRonaldo said:
Except we are no longer competing for top 4 though. We actually belongs to top 6-8 tier, alongside with West Ham and Wolves. We have +2 goal difference this season, and we are losing Pogba, Lingard, Mata, Cavani, Greenwood etc.

Our collective football belongs to mid low table range, only our individual brilliance (Ronaldo, De Gea) saves us from getting there.
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Outside of Pogba, none of those played meaningful minutes this season so they are of no great loss.

Replace them with a couple of class midfielders and a centre forward and we easily finish 4th.
 
We need to be making use of Bosman transfers. Three additions is too few imo. Four is acceptable. Kamara and Dembele are right there and available.
 
Long Time Red said:
Outside of Pogba, none of those played meaningful minutes this season so they are of no great loss.

Replace them with a couple of class midfielders and a centre forward and we easily finish 4th.
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Err.. not really, Arsenal and Spur would spend to improve their squad too.... You can't just assume everyone standing still and we are the only club improving. Newcastle is the wealthiest club in the world now, would have lots of money to spend too.

We only managed +2 goal difference in the league this season. We will have lots of work to do there. A few signings won't dramatically improve that. Just a few injuries we are back to worst again.
 
For me, acquisition of two defensive minded CMs is key and will make or break our next season. Probably we should also get an up and coming ST to rotate with Ronaldo.

We can play Sancho as RW and use Diallo as a backup. Try to rebuild Rashford as LW with Elanga as a backup.

Our disastrous defence should look much better with a properly functioning midfield. However, if there is any money left, we should try signing RB. Would love to see the back of Maguire but there are more pressing issues for the upcoming transfer window.
 
As long as those 3 players are solid starters Im fine with it. Its not realistic to think we can bring 10 quality players in one window. I expect some players to improve under Ten Hag but most of them will need replacing and its going to take at least 3-4 windows to have a proper team.
 
RedRonaldo said:
Err.. not really, Arsenal and Spur would spend to improve their squad too.... You can't just assume everyone standing still and we are the only club improving. Newcastle is the wealthiest club in the world now, would have lots of money to spend too.

We only managed +2 goal difference in the league this season. We will have lots of work to do there. A few signings won't dramatically improve that. Just a few injuries we are back to worst again.
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We now have a coach who can raise the performances of the team individually and collectively.

Throw 3 players like Neves, Tchouameni and Nunez into the squad and suddenly we'll look like a different team as good players make the others around them better.

We should easily finish 4th regardless of what Arsenal and Spurs do in the transfer market.
 
Cassidy said:
As of about a week ago?
You are acting as if the likes of Arsenal and Spurs are top sides that we couldn't have competed with if we had a good enough manager
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They are not top side, but we are definitely a shite side now.

We only managed +2 goal difference this season, take a moment to think about what it means, and how far away we are from the top.
 
RedRonaldo said:
They are not top side, but we are definitely a shite side now.

We only managed +2 goal difference this season, take a moment to think about what it means, and how far away we are from the top.
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Means we have seriously underperformed and have been poorly managed.
 
RedRonaldo said:
They are not top side, but we are definitely a shite side now.

We only managed +2 goal difference this season, take a moment to think about what it means, and how far away we are from the top.
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These players are obviously much better than that level though. Its a unique season with a set of circumstances that won't be repeated next season. A lot of this season is down to mentality, between both the squad and the coaching. It's hard to play at your best when you have no competitive motivation to give that extra 5%, and when your confidence has been shattered it is that much harder. And when you know the coach is changing, that drops the concentration a bit lower. Things will improve just by getting rid of all the players who will have their contracts expire, and getting Ten Hag in. The question is how much, after signings, will we improve. Next season we'll be in a top 4 challenge, which is funnily enough where we've been in all season despite being woeful. So it's not that high of a bar.
 
Long Time Red said:
We now have a coach who can raise the performances of the team individually and collectively.

Throw 3 players like Neves, Tchouameni and Nunez into the squad and suddenly we'll look like a different team as good players make the others around them better.

We should easily finish 4th regardless of what Arsenal and Spurs do in the transfer market.
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From what I've seen this season, I don't see it is possible for any coach to raise our current players significantly.

Rangnick is said to be a coach who can raise performance too, he now concluded these players can't be coached, and we need a complete overhaul on almost every position.
 
With a limited budget ETH probably prefer to go for proven commodity. That’s why rumors around Timber, De Jong and Anthony makes sense.

.
 
RedRonaldo said:
From what I've seen this season, I don't see it is possible for any coach to raise our current players significantly.

Rangnick is said to be a coach who can raise performance too, he now concluded these players can't be coached, and we need a complete overhaul on almost every position.
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Really? There isn't one player who was here last season that is playing better this season. I don't see any reason why we couldn't get back to last season's level of performance at a minimum.

Rangnick is clearly clueless as he hasn't done any better than Ole.
 
bosnian_red said:
These players are obviously much better than that level though. Its a unique season with a set of circumstances that won't be repeated next season. A lot of this season is down to mentality, between both the squad and the coaching. It's hard to play at your best when you have no competitive motivation to give that extra 5%, and when your confidence has been shattered it is that much harder. And when you know the coach is changing, that drops the concentration a bit lower. Things will improve just by getting rid of all the players who will have their contracts expire, and getting Ten Hag in. The question is how much, after signings, will we improve. Next season we'll be in a top 4 challenge, which is funnily enough where we've been in all season despite being woeful. So it's not that high of a bar.
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Not necessary. Martial is shite here, he is same shite in Spain too.

Most of these players are shite under Mourniho anyway, they are shite under Ole during the end of their first season too. They are only good with individual form of some of the players (mainly Bruno) periodically over past 2 years, but larger has been shite as a team for many years. It will take alot to completely change this shit show from our currently overpaid and lazy bunch, definitely a lot more than just a few good signings a change of coach. In fact, we have changed alot of coaches and spend alot of money too over past 7 years, and we have made zero progression so far, after over 1 billion spend and playing under 5 difference coaches. Its not that simple.
 
Long Time Red said:
Really? There isn't one player who was here last season that is playing better this season. I don't see any reason why we couldn't get back to last season's level of performance at a minimum.

Rangnick is clearly clueless as he hasn't done any better than Ole.
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De Gea is definitely playing better this season than last.

Point being, past doesn't equal to present or future. Plus we have never been convincing under Ole anyway. Its always cycle of Ole on the wheel, then Ole is on the verge of losing his job after months of shit show, then Ole on the wheel again, then shit show again, then keep repeating this again on every few months span. Ole relies on individual brilliance, he has add nothing in terms of overall team play. We have spend over 800m under Mourinho and Ole, we are not progressing as a team and keep getting worse.
 
RedRonaldo said:
Not necessary. Martial is shite here, he is same shite in Spain too.

Most of these players are shite under Mourniho anyway, they are shite under Ole during the end of their first season too. They are only good with individual form of some of the players (mainly Bruno) over past 2 years, but larger has been shite as a team for many years. It will take alot to completely change this shit show from our currently overpaid and lazy bunch, definitely a lot more than just a few good signings a change of coach. In fact, we have changed alot of coaches and spend alot of money too over past 7 years, and we have made zero progression so far, after over 1 billion spend and playing under 5 difference coaches. Its not that simple.
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I mean, in the past 8 seasons we've won the FA Cup, league Cup, Europa League, finished 2nd twice, finished 3rd once and 4th once. We've also lost an FA Cup final, a Europa League final, and made the semi finals of the league Cup twice, FA Cup once and Europa League once. It's hardly all doom and gloom. Go take a breather and relax a bit.

You are never that far off. I guess the difference is expectation vs what happens. If you expect bare minimum the club goes back to winning titles next season and will blame them for being a mess if we don't, then you're setting yourself up to just be pissed off as that isn't happen even if we spend 500m in one window and steal Pep Guardiola from Man City while getting Klopp to retire at the same time. Ok in that case maybe. But still. You have to be reasonable. No point bitching about the past, it's how do we rebuild.

Year 1 - Implement system, top 4 fight
Year 2 - address weaknesses from year 1, adapt system to make next step up. Comfortable top 3 finish.
Year 3 - make step up to be competitive with the best teams in Europe (the hardest step)

That's pretty much the standard blue print on how every rebuild should go. Hell, even Ole did the first 2 steps after the Mourinho disaster but failed on step 3 and we are back to square 1 because of the way he went about trying to take that step (a chunk of very short term signings and no play style/subpar coaching).

Funding wise, if you need more than 150m a year for transfers with one of the highest wage bills in europe, then you're doing it wrong.
 
I am 66 years old, I don't have time for evolution. This needs to be sorted in the 2 to 3 years at most.
 
romufc said:
This must be one of the weirdest takes I have seen so far. A player with the most ever goals cannot play in a team that keeps possession.

You do realise, majority of the teams he has played in keep possession? Manutd SAF times, Real, Juve ? He played under Sari who kept possession and scored goals.

Ronaldo is someone who can play in different styles, even this season he has got goals in no system under Ole and Ralf.
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He's 37 and cant press. Him scoring while we do poorly is not the goal. He can be a good rotation striker at this stage but if you want a striker to fit a high intensity possesion game he's not your man at this stage of his career.

It's not a "weird take". Many people can see this is clear.
 
Kush said:
Ronaldo is good enough to adapt to a system. His touch isn't a liability and he can still pass the ball.

Folks really over-estimate this perfect system player, there isn't one. Good players adapt to it. Ronaldo isn't a hindrance to this mythical possession play.
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Yeah feck building a team with a vision. Just put Pogba and Martial at Liverpool and they'll play the same way. People can adapt and you just get on with it.

Hopefully we don't continue with this blinkered view on football.
 
stevoc said:
We're almost certainly losing,

Pogba
Mata
Matic
Cavani
Lingard
Jones
Greenwood

And a few out of Bailly, Dalot, Telles, AWB, DVB, Martial.

So I imagine we'll have to make at least 5 signings and promote a few of the promising youngsters to fill these gaps.
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Mata, Cavani, Lingard & Jones contributed feckall this season

Pogba and Matic not much more that that

If we get 3 first team signings it would be pretty good in my opinion, four would be really good

we very rarely get more than that
 
romufc said:
This must be one of the weirdest takes I have seen so far. A player with the most ever goals cannot play in a team that keeps possession.

You do realise, majority of the teams he has played in keep possession? Manutd SAF times, Real, Juve ? He played under Sari who kept possession and scored goals.

Ronaldo is someone who can play in different styles, even this season he has got goals in no system under Ole and Ralf.
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None of those teams played possession football.
 
Tarrou said:
Mata, Cavani, Lingard & Jones contributed feckall this season

Pogba and Matic not much more that that

If we get 3 first team signings it would be pretty good in my opinion, four would be really good

we very rarely get more than that
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Just get players that can actually run, press and play every week.

Those fecking chancers need to feck off.
 
stevoc said:
We're almost certainly losing,

Pogba
Mata
Matic
Cavani
Lingard
Jones
Greenwood

And a few out of Bailly, Dalot, Telles, AWB, DVB, Martial.

So I imagine we'll have to make at least 5 signings and promote a few of the promising youngsters to fill these gaps.
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There's no guarantee we get any reasonable bids for those players.

I think the "3 players" is essentially 3 holes in the squad that need filling. After that any incomings will need to funded by outgoings and if we don't get any decent bids then that's all we'll get.

We actually have a really bloated squad even with the players leaving:

De Gea/Henderson
Wan-Bissaka/Dalot - Varane/Lindelof - Maguire/Baily - Shaw/Telles
New DM/New DM
McTominay/Fred-VDB/Bruno
Sancho/Elanga - Ronaldo/ New CM - Martial/Rashford​

Then youth who might be in and around the first team:

Mejbri, Garner, Amad, Pellistri, Laird.
 
Fortitude said:
Why do they keep releasing these stupid tweets? Is this one trying to manage expectations?
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It's definitely aiming to dampen any misplaced expectations that we'll be buying a whole new team. In reality, looking to build a team over 3 windows is more sensible than buying 11 new players anyway, so the actual sentiment is fairly sound. The outrage is a bit odd tbh.
 
5 will do this window. 5 to go straight in to his starting 11. Nice number to build on.
 
stevoc said:
I'd be surprised if we got an offer over £15m for any of them bar possibly Martial.
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Exactly, so if we're trying to be sensible and build long term it makes far more sense to improve what we've got and get rid of them for decent money next year rather than have a firesale this summer.
 
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