Yeah that's true, I forget he is still young as his game is so refined already.
Erling Haaland
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Haaland is not better than Benzema, people need to stop acting like playing in the Bundesliga is the same as what Benzema's done in La Liga. There's 3 players that have better than a goal/game in the Bundesliga. The numbers tell one thing, the eyes tell another. Haaland's still got some ways to go before I consider him better than Benzema, nevermind Lewandowski. The good thing is at least the player himself knows this.
If scoring goals in Bundesliga was that easy, then why hasn't anyone else been on Haaland's level besides prime Lewandowski? 56 Bundesliga goals in 60 apperances is phenomenal no matter what. Haaland also has 23 UCL-goals in 19 apperances & 12 goals in 15 apperances for Norway.
A 21-year-old Haaland is undoubtedly a generational talent & is a top 2 striker in the world alongside with prime Lewandowski.
Like I said before, Haaland is 2 tiers above Benzema and Perez is doing everything to sign him. Otherwise, Perez could've done what Rummenigge/Hoeness did a.k.a. openly refuse to sign Haaland because they already have a world class #9 in Benzema.
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Haaland isn't as good as Benzema or Lewandowski. There is a solid argument for him being better than everyone else though.
Edit: I would also say Kane on his day is up there too actually.
Like I said, 3 players right now with a goal/game or better, there's no other leagues you see this.
Regarding Benzema, you're completely wrong. It's okay to say Haaland is a potentially generational talent and still be inferior to Benzema, which he is. You put Benzema in that Dortmund team, he'll score and create for fun there as well in the Bundesliga. You can just watch highlights of Benzema against United at 19 years old against Vidic and Ferdinand and come back to me again how Haaland is 2 tiers above Benzema. Rio is still speaking of it today, and he was only 19 at that point. Perez is trying everything he can to sign him because Benzema is 34, that's it.
Haaland is extremely consistent, which is a bit surprising for his age. But he isn't the undoubted second-best goalscorer in the Bundesliga (Lewandowski far in front) - last season Andre Silva actually scored more goals, this season Patrik Schick is ahead of him .
Haaland is much better Champions League player if the top scorer sheet of past seasons is anything to go by
Yes, but there will also be wage factor, and agent fees, which would be enormous for these two.
Tbf, Perez is an idiot and tends to throw cash at whatever the flavour of the month is.
His numbers are unprecedented so far in his career, but when we're talking about tiers of players we're also talking ability and numbers only tell you one thing. You slot Haaland in that Lyon team against that United side, I'm not sure he's scoring a goal like that out of nowhere.
As far as the Champion's League, it's not as if Benzema is slacking by any means as he has 70+ CL goals without taking a single penalty in his career, playing a support role for CR7 when he's clearly shown he could be the main man, and playing against much stronger competition by virtue of often going far in the competition.
And I'm not saying this to downplay the extraordinary things Haaland is doing, but saying he's even one tier above Benzema is complete nonsense and shows how underrated the guy still is for some.
Fair call. Letting Madrid get Benzema and Ronaldo and let Bayern get Robben was a bad time for us. No value in the market… not a bit.
I understand that you like Benzema a lot (despite the sextape blackmailing verdict?)as a player. He's a fantastic player and has had a great career, but I have to disagree with you on this. For me Haaland is already a better striker than prime Benz, I would even make an argument that he is already #1, but I'll leave that one for later.
Let's just have quick look at oyur arguments for the CL record of the 2. Benzema played 19 CL matches for Lyon and 116 CL matches for RM (in their galactico period, winning 4 titles), while Haaland has played 6 games for Salzburg and 13 games for Dortmund. Your argument that Benzema has had tougher working conditions and met stronger competition than Haaland is just false. Few players in the history of the game has played for a more stacked and dominant team.
Benzema in the CL:
- Against teams outside the top 5 leagues - 39 goals and 18 assists in 50 games - 0,78 goals/game and 1,14 goals+assists/game
- Against teams in the top 5 leagues - 37 goals and 11 assists in 85 games - 0,44 goals/game and 0,56 goals+assists/game
Total 76 (1 penalty) goals and 29 assists in 9612 minutes of CL football - 0,70 non penalty goals/90 minutes and 0,97 non penalty goal+assists/90 minutes
Haaland in the CL:
- Against teams outside the top 5 leagues - 12 goals and 1 assists in 8 games - 1,5 goals/game and 1,63 goals+assists/game
- Against teams in the top 5 leagues - 11 goals and 2 assists in 11 games - 1,0 goals/game and 1,18 goals+assists/game (Liverpool, City, PSG, Napoli, Lazio and Sevilla)
Total 23 (3 penalties) goals and 3 assists in 1440 minutes of CL football - 1,25 non penalty goals/90 minutes and 1,44 non penalty goal+assists/90 minutes
It's not possible to name a player in the history in the game with a better record in the CL. Not at the start of a career or total.
It's not possible to name a player with a better start of his career in a top 5 league in the history of the game either, not even Ronaldo to Real Madrid....
He is 21 years old and has 80 goals and 21 assists in 78 games (6484 minutes) or 56 goals and 17 assists in 57 games (4644 minutes)in the Bundesliga his first 2 seasons for Dortmund.
The second fastest player to score 50 goals in the Bundesliga was Huntelaar. He did it in 85 games (in his prime), Haaland did it in 50 games. (Lewandowski needed 91 games). That's 35 fewer games needed than any other player to ever play in the Bundesliga, so there goes your "it just the Bundesliga" argument. You can't possibly think Benzema would come into this Dortmund team and consistantly score a goal a game. Haaland even has a higher A/90 rate than Benzema since he joined Dortmund in January 2020.
Could Haaland have converted that horrible Mbappe pass in to a goal in the Euros last summer? Probably not, maybe Benz himself couldn't do that again, but my point is that every player has different skillsets and there are more ways than one to be a great footballer...
I believe he is an upgrade to any team playing with a #9, even Bayern.
Lewandowski has the ultimate working conditions for a good striker. I dont want him to go to Bayern, but it would be interesting to see what he could do there.
I have never seen a better goalscorer at 21, and it will be extremely interesting to see how high his ceiling is, because he is very much still developing.
The only worry is his issues with muscular problems, hopefully it will pass when he's found his end frame. Still in process that too.
R9 was better at 21 for me ... thats not a slight on Haaland - more so pointing out just what a phenomenon Il Fenomeno was
Or maybe Rummenigge/Hoeness announce they refuse to sign Haaland because they know the player has chosen another club and Perez is aware the difference in age between Benzema and the Norwegian more than justifies his signing for the next 10-15 years.
Eh... is he? I really don't think he is.
R9 was better for sure. Haaland is not close to him at the same age.
How far?
Haalands goal ratio is slightly better than Lewa this BL-season, 71 vs 75 minutes played per goal.
Goals+assist: Haaland: 54 min/per G+A, Lewa: 72 min/per G+A.
Keep in mind that Lewa has the luxury of playing in a much better team.
Better? Maybe.
Far better? I really don't see it.
Listen, I love the passion for the stats (and they are outstanding), but it's boring to read your responses every time someone pops up with a Haaland post that makes any sort of criticism or comparison (and it's irrelevant to bring up his sex tape episode, but at least I know where you're coming from).
I know you only look at stats and make your conclusions, I don't do things like that and I think Benzema is still a better player than Haaland today (and your boy himself even acknowledges it), never mind when he was at his prime. You can rattle off all the stats, but Haaland is mainly a flat-track bully right now. Every time he has come up against the odds, he hasn't been able to win. If his team can barely touch the ball, he becomes completely ineffective by the simple virtue of his role. There isn't a scenario where Benzema is ineffective. He can affect the game in more way than Haaland can, and it remains to be seen if Haaland can even keep up his form long term, or how he will deal with the mounting injuries.
And of course I can assume Benzema could come to the Bundesliga and score a goal/game, there's three other players doing it right now and besides Lewandowski, none of them are better than Benzema.
We disagree on this point, that's why you don't rate Lewandowski as much as I do in comparison to Haaland.
From my point of view it is more like: Haaland has the luxury of being the main target man for a strong team, while Lewandowski is one of many goal scorers in an excellent team. Players like Gnabry, Sane and to a lesser degree Coman, Davies and Müller are more inclined on scoring themselves than most of Dortmund's attacking players (only Reus being similarly direct most of the time, Malen maybe too).
I won't claim it to be a massive difference, but it's a fact that Bayern are less focused on creating chances for Lewandowski than Dortmund are for Haaland.
I am old enough to watch R9 played for Barcelona and his first season with Inter. Mbappe and Haaland are far away from the quality of Il Fenomeno. It is not even close, no matter how good the stats Mbappe & Haaland have.
I'm old enough to remember watching him on a Dutch channel on the old SKY satellite system scoring a hat-trick in a European competition for PSV when he was 17 & thinking how good he looked back then.
I guess we'll agree to dissagree on this one.
I've watched 90% of the games Haaland has played the last 3 and a half years and maybe 100 games with Benzema in his career, so my opinion is definitely not based on numbers alone. We can agree that Benzema is a more rounded and more technical player than Haaland, as that is not where Haalands strenghts are right now. He has the best movement and positional awareness in the attacking 3rd I've ever seen, his finishing is fantastic, his physical package is unique for a 6'3'' guy and he is one of the most vertical minded players I've seen play the game. He has plenty of weaknesses to work on and will only get better, and still his strenghts are so extreme that it still makes him (in my opinion) the best striker (not player) in the world already.
Football is a teamsport and most of the time the best team wins. If you play up top for a team that barely gets a touch against a much better team, you will struggle no matter who you are (Benzema hasn't tried that much, playing for France, Lyon (when Lyon was #1 in France) and RM). Benzema is consistantly less effective than him though, against any level of opponent. I could of course back that up with numbers, but I know that bores you.
His muscle injuries is worrying though.
He’s the best striker ever. Never thought I’d see a better player in my life until Messi came along, and it got to a point where it started to get ridiculous to put any footballer who has ever player above him.
„Rating“ players is not only about stats. It is also about watching them and their quality. That’s why it is biased. In my opinion Lewy > Benzema > Haaland if I need a striker for a game today.
I'm very interested if you could back it up with numbers. Many people like me are big fans of statistics & analytical posts of yours
If we're going by just eye test, Benzema is far ahead of Lewandowski & Haaland due to the Frenchman's superior aesthetically pleasing game.
Although Lewandowski/Haaland are boring to watch, their insane level of goals + assists per game is off the charts.
If I need a striker to win games, then it's Lewy > Haaland > Benzema
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Cristiano transitioned into a poacher role after his knee injury in 2014 and Benzema was more skilled than CR7 at that point.
And yet, people says Cristiano was levels above Benzema due to the former's insane goals + assist numbers.
It's extremely hypocritical that people rates Cristiano over Benzema because of superior stats, but doesn't keep the same energy when it comes to Haaland & Benzema.
And yet, people says Cristiano was levels above Benzema due to the former's insane goals + assist numbers.
It's extremely hypocritical that people rates Cristiano over Benzema because of superior stats, but doesn't keep the same energy when it comes to Haaland & Benzema.
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Yeah, we will disagree and that's fine. I think you and some others are way too premature in calling Haaland as the superior player. He is a great striker, but I think his impact can more easily be reduced by defenders who know how to go at him than a guy like Benzema. I've never really seen Benzema shut down, whether he's not scoring, he's going to create danger. I've seen Haaland shut down multiple times, and sometimes without really his team being shut down necessarily as I still remember how Kimpembe bullied him in the return leg of the CL against PSG. But Haaland is still young, and I definitely think he can end up being the greatest striker of his generation and a superior player to Benzema, but I simply don't think he's already there. I've seen Benzema (and Lewandowski for that matter) do things Haaland can't even dream about yet. Let's see if he gets to 70+ CL goals like Karim has, let's see if he can grow into his body and put his injuries behind him and deal with the pressure of being at a big club, of going through a rough patch, or whatever off-field incidents can happen, because Benzema has been through a lot of his own making, but he's still here and he's still excellent because he doesn't rely on pace due to his impeccable technique.
There's so many reasons why Haaland will never be as good of a player as Benzema or Lewandowski. I'm all for the projection that he could be the best, but to say he's 2 tiers above Benzema already is absolute nonsense to me.
The football industry needs the next CR7 vs Messi for marketing. Just like NBA needs the next Jordan, Kobe, Lebron James. It will be bad for marketing if both Mbappe and Haaland join the same team. It will be like MJ team up with Magic in LA Laker. It makes business sense for Barcelona to sign Haaland for this very reason. It is good for La Liga as well.
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Things move so fast, who knows in 4 years there'll be even better players coming along. I definitely hope they don't play together, and I don't know how Barcelona could possibly afford Haaland but if there's any way then La Liga should put together a stimulus package to make it happen with Mbappe in Madrid to try and compete with the Premier League based on those two names. They'd also need to win some CLs
Let's start with the CL KO-stages:I'm very interested if you could back it up with numbers. Many people like me are big fans of statistics & analytical posts of yours
Haaland has played only 6 matches so far in his career (540 minutes), against City, PSG and Sevilla. Has he had any impact in these games?
- He's scored 6 goals and assisted 2 in those matches and was directly involved in 8 out of the 9 goals (89%) Dortmund scored in those matches. A goal every 90 minutes and a goal contribution every 68 minutes.
Benzema has played 56 CL KO-matches (3967 minutes) in his career, mostly against good teams, but also against teams like CSKA, Apoel and Galatasaray (4 goals and 2 assists in 209 minutes against those 3)
- He's scored 19 goals and assisted 4 in the KO stages of the CL (including the mentioned games against CSKA, Apoel and Galatasaray) and was directly involved in 23 of the 104 (22%) goals Lyon and RM scored in those matches. Against teams from the top 5 leagues he has scored a goal every 257 minutes and contributed to a goal every 211 minutes.....
Benzema for RM post Ronaldo has played 9 games (793 minutes) in the KO-stages of the CL:
- He's scored 4 goals and assisted 0 and was directly involved in 4 out of the 12 goals (33%) RM scored in those matches. A goal every 198 minutes and a goal contribution every 198 minutes.
Against top teams in the biggest leagues (Dortmund, Bayern, Leipzig, Leverkusen, PSG, Lyon, Monaco, Atletico M, Barca, Sevilla, Valencia, Athletic B and all teams from England and Italy)
Haaland:
26 goals and 5 assists in 24 games against these teams for Salzburg and Dortmund. 1,08 goals per match and 1,29 goals+assists per match.
Played most matches against Bayern - 6 games: 5 goals and 1 assist - 0,83 goals per game and 1,00 goals+assists per match
Benzema (Career):
85 goals and 39 assists in 218 games against these teams for Lyon and RM. 0,39 goals per match and 0,57 goals+assists per match.
Played most games against Barca and Athletico M:
Barca - 41 games: 11 goals and 10 assists - 0,27 goals per game and 0,51 goals+assists per match
Athletico M - 37 games: 7 goals and 4 assists - 0,19 goals per game and 0,3 goals+assists per match
Has played 10 games against Bayern: 4 goals and 0 assists - 0,4 goals per game and 0,4 goals+assists per match
Benzema post Ronaldo:
33 goals and 6 assists in 56 games against these teams since the start of the 18/19 season. 0,59 goals per match and 0,70 goals+assists per match.
Haaland both scores and assists more than Benzema against top teams and Dortmund in general scores fewer goals against top teams than Real Madrid.
For NTs
France standard lineup:
Lloris
Kimpembe - Varane - Kounde (Upamecano, Laporte)
T. Hernandez - Pogba - Kante - Pavard
Griezmann
Mbappe - Benzema
Norway Standard lineup:
Hansen
Meling - Strandberg - Ajer - Pedersen
Elyounoussi - Berge - Thorsby - Odegaard
Sorloth - Haaland (King)
Benzema since comeback: 9 goals and 2 assists in 13 games (for reigning WC against stronger competition)
(Benzema before his "break": 27 goals and 19 assists in 81 games)
Haaland in his career: 12 goals and 1 assist in 15 games (for weaker team, against weaker competition)
@Sayros
Do you really think it is harder to score against top teams for Real Madrid than it is for Dortmund?
Do you really think Benzema is a better striker than Haaland?
What makes you think he would accumulate the same output if you put him in that Dortmund team?
It's no disrespect to what Benzema has done in his football career or to him as a player, I think he is one hell of a player, just not as good as the absolute best.
That players have a one off season now and then happens all the time. I don't think the PL is a shit league just because Phillips and Bent has been topscorers there. I do think Schicks hot streak in the Bundesliga will end some day not to far away though. Him Diaby and Wirtz has been clicking pretty good so far this season, but he is 26 (and has 0 goals in 14 CL games), so it would be very surprising if a goal per game is his new permanent level, since he never been remotely close to that before.
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Are you claiming that Haaland and Ronaldo's careers are equal?
Are you saying that the striker with the highest npxG90 (expected non penalty goals per 90) and the highest number of shots/90 in the top 5 leagues doesn't get as good service as Haaland, or has as good working conditions?
Lewandowski: 1,19 npxG90 - non penalty goals: 1,04 (underperforming by 14% this season in the BL)
Haaland: 0,71 npxG - non penalty goals: 1,02 (overperforming by 43% this season in the BL)
Lewandowski is the player in the top 5 leagues that shoots the most this season:
Lewandowski: 5,03 shots/90
Haaland: 4,33 shots/90
Creativity from teammates (xA90 = expected assists per 90) and contribution to teammates:
Bayern: Muller 0,56 xA90, Gnabry 0,45 xA90, Kimmich 0,42 xA90, Sane 0,39 xA90, Tolisso and Musiala 0,36 xA90, Goretxka 0,26 xA90, Davies 0,24 xA90, Coman 0,20 xA90.........
.....Lewa 0,18 xA90
Dortmund: Brandt 0,23 xA90, Reus and Meunier 0,22 xA90, Hazard 0,21 xA90, Malen 0,20 xA90, Bellingham 0,19 xA90, Dahoud 0,16 xA90, Wolf and Guerreiro 0,12 xA90....
.... Haaland 0,27 xA90
Crazy stuff: Bayern (3,14 npxG90) creates the most chances in the Bundesliga, they accumulate 78%(!!!) more npxG90 then the closest contenders, Dortmund (1,76 npxG90)
Lewandowski accumulates 38% of Bayerns npxG90 and scores 34% of their non penalty goals (non penalty goals/90 vs. team non penalty goals/90) and contributes to 7% of their combined xA90 (xA90 vs. team xA90)
Haaland accumulates 40% of Dortmunds npxG90 (pretty similar to Lewa, 5% more) and scores 45% (32% more than Lewa)of their non penalty goals (non penalty goals/90 vs. team non penalty goals/90) and contributes to 19% of their combined xA90 (xA90 vs. team xA90)
Tell me more about the luxury Haaland has in that Dortmund team compared to what Lewa has in Bayern, please. Lewandowski lives in a strikers paradise in that Bayern team.
I think it's because Lewandowski has to deal with opponent's box being crowded due to Bayern dominating possession, while a typical Haaland goal is a counterattack goal when he beats opponents with his speed and physicality and then gets to have an easy finish.
Or at least people peceive it that way. I don't know if it's entirely true.
In general there's this idea that Haaland's numbers would actually drop if he encountered more athletic defenders and played for a top team that dominates possession, while Lewandowski's wouldn't because scoring while having little space available is one of his strengths. Again - it's debatable but I guess that's what people think?
Those stats mostly prove that Bayern are the better team overall, that’s nothing we can argue about, that’s a fact.
But the way I perceive it Dortmund is often looking to make stuff happen through Haaland, while most Bayern attackers would like to make something happen for themselves and Lewandowski is quite good at making himself available as another option in tight spaces. Bayern's attackers aren't stupid, they often recognize when that is the case and pass to him, but it's often not their first instinct.
Haaland would have a tough job ahead to offer that many opportunities to be passed to as Lewandowski does. Not saying he can't do it, but so far he rarely had to, so I can't really rate him for that.
I am an analyst. I like numbers and statistics. However, when it comes to comparing footballers I prefer to watch them play.
Indeed.
Stats are nice, but this isn't Moneyball.
I mean, Harry Kane has similar numbers to Henry and Van Basten overall, nobody would dare to day he is as good as them.
Overall, he also has similar numbers to R9 at league level, i don't remember anybody putting Kane as the best striker in history like what happened to R9.
At some point test eye matters.
I hate modern football.
How do you explain that they have similar portions of their teams' accumulated npxG (38 vs. 40 %) and Bayern having 8 players with a higher xA90 than the best non-Haaland Dortmund player? Lewandowski is brilliant at finding space and make himself available, but so is Haaland, and with Haaland being a more lethal finisher and more direct in his playing style it is natural that the end product will be even better for him. There is no way around Lewandowski getting the best service in the world right now.
I am pretty damn sure Haaland would score and assist at a higher rate than Lewandowski in that Bayern team (He already is for Dortmund - Haaland: 1,29 npG90+xA90 vs. Lewandowski: 1,22 npG90+xA)
Do you know how xG and npxG is calculated and accumulated?
Bayern is one of the best counterattacking teams in the world.
Fun fact:
From open play in the Bundesliga this season Haaland has scored 3 goals from chances with an xG of more than 0,5 and only 1 with an xG above 0,61.
From open play Lewandowski has scored 13 goals from chances with an xG of more than 0,5 and 7 with an xG above 0,61, mostly tap-ins.
There you have the difference in service and "easy goals/finishes"
Dortmund is dominating possession in 94% of their matches in the BL, they just don't have the same quality or creates as many chances.
Which of Dortmunds players in other positions would be regular starters for Bayern? The answer is none (Bellingham might get some starts)
Who thinks Haaland would have problems with more athletic defenders?
The boy is an absolute physcal monster. Ask Van Dijk, De Vrij, Upamecano, Koulibali, Diaz, Fernando, Kounde, Kimpembe etc. He's bullying all of them physically.
You do realize that these "analytic comparison posts" are not a substitute to watching actual games?
Some people thinks this sort of stuff is a good read and likea to back up what they see or get a surprise from stats and ananysis in addition to watching games.
Feel free to not read stuff you hate reading.
Eyetest comparisons holds few good arguments....
Just think about that Haaland has at age 21 scored more CL goals than R9 scored hes whole carrer.
Haaland is a beast.
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