How can anyone moan about this transfer? Young promising player in a position we are paper thin. Fecking hope this happens. Looks like a proper player.
Erling Haaland / signs for Dortmund
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Ingrid Halstensen
Sounds like a proper fecking weirdo.
Good luck getting 3 "PL-proven" players for 20-25 million each. Well you could but they would all been old/shit so whats the point then?
While midfield has been a problem no doubt, that was not the sole reason we looked so shit when Martial was out. The "problem" with Rashford is that hes incredibly dangerous when hes facing the goal, but very uncomfortable when having his back towards the goal as he lacks the awareness and hold up play that Martial got. This makes it much easier for opponents to maintain their defensive shape and it also narrows down the room between fullbacks and CB's, which is the exact space we want Rashford/James to operate in since they can outrun most fullbacks and most CB's will look like snails in comparison.
This isn't so much about replacing Martial as it is freeing him up and lifting some of the burden of him. Martial is versatile enough that he can play across the entire attacking line (and maybe even as a #10?). If we go out and buy a RW, LW or #10, we are still fecked if Martial gets injured. We can survive without our best players on the wings or in the hole, but when you are playing a one striker system, its is imperative that whoever is playing there can hold up the ball to drag CB's out of positions and open up space for the wingers
If James gets injured? Martial to the RW. If Rashford gets injured? Martial to the LW. Martial injured? We are fecked. Well, Rashford plays there but his hold up play is not good enough and thus the entire house of cards comes tumbling down. There is another thread here on the caf called "Martial is our most important player" or something, and i agree, he is. But placing all of our faith on one player and hoping he stays fit the entire season is madness.
And regarding midfield its not like Pogba is dead or anything. In fact, he should be back anytime soon now.
The thing about Haaland is that makes him unique is that hes big and strong, but also incredibly fast and agile. This is a nightmare for CB's since moving up means you risk ending up in a footrace, and falling back means you risk him shielding the ball away from you and get a shooting chance anyway. Player like these tend to be able to occupy both CB's and that in turn creates loads of space for whoever is playing on the wings since both CB's have now been pulled inwards so the space between them and the fullback is now massive.
Him being so big also gives us another tactical option in playing long on him and having him compete for headers and then having our wingers try and move in behind and snatch up the falling fruit.
Tl;dr: Signing Haaland is not about replacing Martial, its about making sure we are not so ridiculously dependent on one player
I've seen a few videos and highlight reels of haaland but find it difficult to categorize him as a striker. The closest I can think of is the younger version of lukaku. He's a big unit but also fast and can head the ball well. Seems like a good finisher too.
Not that convinced he's wroth 80 million though.
Not that convinced he's wroth 80 million though.
Was referring to Halaand. If we sign him, hope that happens.
I’d like to start by saying I’m not against this potential signing, but buying this lad for up to £100m is hardly snapping up young talents before they’re worth mega money, is it?
5 goals and 3 assists in 8 games. If Martial continues like this he really doesn't need any competition does he? What he will need is a good back up.
People talking about switching to a 2 strikers systems are also failing to see how it affect Rashford. For once on year we're on to something and should focus on filling the missing pieces yet people once again want the club to do purchases that don't go accordingly with what was preplanned.
Rashford is a bordeline second striker in our system, he is an inside forward. You switch to 442 and he becomes a pure winger which set him back again after we've finally found the right spot for him and he's firing up. No one should mess with a working system. What we should do is improve on the weaker areas of said system which none happened to be in attack.
Take care of our midfield first than we can worry about throwing money on luxury.
Rashford is a bordeline second striker in our system, he is an inside forward. You switch to 442 and he becomes a pure winger which set him back again after we've finally found the right spot for him and he's firing up. No one should mess with a working system. What we should do is improve on the weaker areas of said system which none happened to be in attack.
Take care of our midfield first than we can worry about throwing money on luxury.
Haaland is not a luxury, if we had someone like Lukaku as back up then he would have been luxury addition. We don't need to play with same 11 every week, our players can't stay fit. We might even miss half of the team in December when we will play 1 game in every 3 days. We need stronger squad, right now we have only Martial as CF.
City have Aguero and Jesus, Argentina's leading striker and Brazil's.
Madrid have Benzema and Jovic
Barca have Messi, Griezmann, Suarez, Dembele to play for 3 positions, ignoring the back ups
PSG have Cavani, Icardi, Mbappe for 9 position.
Atletico Madrid have Morata, Felix, Costa, Correa
Even Chelsea have players like Giroud, Bats as back up for Tammy. Liverpool have Origi as back up for Firmino.
We need to have better squad, we have seen how much we struggled without Martial.
I agree we need midfielders too and we need a better quality midfielders than we have now but that doesn't mean we should solve the problems in an order. When a young player who looks quality is available, we shouldn't be thinking 'we need to sort out CM position before signing back up ST'.
He'd be a luxury in the sense that right now we're in need of a creative midfield(AM) first especially with our constrained budget(whether some people actually realise this or not). So with finally having a sorted starting front 3 while we still have a big hole in our staring AM who happens to be very essential in our current system, buying another starting attacking player right now is a luxury.
Sure we need depth and that should be addressed but right now not at the cost of far more pressing issues. Also for the fees he's being quoted for he'd need to be a starter. Not sure I, the club or many are comfortable splashing that much money for a back up player. He'd have to be integrated in the starting line up straight away.
When we sort of our issues in our starting 11 then we can think to start further improving an area that's already solid right now. We sort out our midfield and we won't be having those Martial issues even when he's out. With a creative 10 the loss of Martial wouldn't feel as accentuated as it's been this season. You can actually throw in there any type of striker to replace Martial of our midfield is sorted out.
How many players, and for how many positions, is it you feel we can/should/need/must buy? Given the squad overall, a striker is some way down the list in terms of where we should be looking to strengthen. Rashford absolutely is a striker. So is Greenwood, who you seemed to be alright with having as backup on the right, out of position.
Both Martial and Rashford are better up front than Jesus. Benzema is getting on a bit, and Jovic has only just signed. Madrid went years with Benzema alone. Barcelona went years with both Messi and Suarez starting week in week out and no cover. Batshuayi, Giroud and bloody Origi, seriously?
The majority of your examples, in terms of cover for the main striker, are not in any better state than us or have not been for a considerable time. They either have (far) inferior backups or they have a quality player playing elsewhere who could fill in.
Pretty much this.
I don't know where this myth about teams having 2 world class players for each positions is coming from. Most top teams have world class or top players for their first 11 than solid back up options, not 2 top players for each positions. Sure we can always reinforce and add depth to our squad and attack but it is extremely naive to think an attacking player some value at 100m is what we need right now especially in light of the fact that our team is crying for creativity and midfield being sorted out first.
Literally every striker requires service though and our biggest issues this season have been when Martial was missing.
Rashfords just as important as Martial, take him off the left wing and our attack will look just as blunt as without Martial.
Not sure how and why it matters whether Martial and Rashford are better than Jesus. He is Brazilian international playing as back up for Aguero.
Benzema and Higuian played together for few years, then they had Morata as back up for a season or 2. Now they have Jovic.
Barca also signed players like Alcacar who was back up.
Yes, Bats, Giroud, Origi. If you aren't aware, Origi has contributed a lot for Liverpool. He isn't good enough to play ahead of Firmino but when he gets chances he has done well.
The examples I gave are the top teams who have more than 1 option for a CF role. We can't just rely on 2 players staying fit forever. We signed Saha when we have Rooney and RVN. We signed RVN when we had Cole, Yorke and IIRC Sherringham too.
We need better squad and competition for places, more than anything we need players who can come on and make sure the quality drop isn't significant.
I’d say Pogba being absent was just as big an issue.
Looks like fans are going crazy for this guy, he’s not got the ability to hold the ball up Martial has, so can’t really be a back up to him. He does look like he’ll have a very good conversion rate and score a lot of goals, but in our set up I don’t see where he’d fit in. Ole would have the make major changes to incorporate him into the starting 11.
No one knows whether Haaland will be a starting player. Also we might play 50-55 games this season, you think 3 players for 3 positions is enough? Considering Lingard, Mata are close to useless.
We need attacking mid but if we don't get the player need in Jan, should we just stop signing players like Haaland as AM is higher priority? If Ole is very particular about choice of players and the player he wants is not available in Jan, what should be the approach? Wait till summer, sign AM first and then sign Haaland?
We don't need to address one position at a time. We need AM, we need back up striker, we need good CM. If we can sign one of them in Jan then we should go ahead and sign, instead of going in a fixed order.
Also Pogba will be back in 2 weeks, if Fred and McT retain their place then good chance Pogba will be the attacking player.
We don't have a striker in the squad bar Greenwood who is a kid.
Rashford and Martial are both left wingers.
Don't want us to Sign anyone because that just confirms Glazers and Woodward going nowhere. Let the rot continue and force a sale. The club is finished under its current regime.
We are in need of added quality in attack, that much is obvious. Martial and Rashford can both play on the left, and so can James. James can play on the right and for England England, Rashford has swapped wings with Sterling and Sancho loads during play and has looked good. Adding a striker wouldn't affect too much with our current group.
Rashfor Martial James
Or
Martial Haaland James
We need different options and tactical setups. We could even go like this if we are playing on the counter attack.
Rashford/Martial---Haaland
James
It’s great, ain’t it?
Martial’s best position is striker. He’s proven that this season.
I could understand not wanting him due to cost and so on, but not wanting him because we already have Martial? That seems a bit mental.
Crazy when you see the depth of the top clubs around Europe.
We always had good depth upfront with Fergie.
I highly doubt we would switch formations. This isnt about "messing up" the current crop of players, but instead adding another one for a critical position where we currently depend on only one player. We've looked decent enough the last three games, but were utter shit when Martial was out.
We do have a creative midfielder. In fact hes one of the most expensive players in the world.
Your basing everything on Martial staying fit and in form the entire season which is madness considering how many games we potentially have to play. If any of our other players could do as well as Martial as a lone CF this would not be so much of an issue, but there are none. Martial is versatile enough that he can play both LW and RW, but right now hes the only good CF option we got for our current system
Rashford is lethal when given space to run in and his directness is a boon, but he lacks the hold up play and positioning to work well as a lone CF
I think Martial is a good player, but I think he is inconsistent and I don't think he is a good enough goalscorer to lead the line in a Man United team challenging for PL and CL again. I think he would be good enough to be a squad-player in that team though. Nothing would please me more than for him to bang in goals consistently, but even then we should welcome top talents like Haaland. Like I have stated some times in this thread, I haven't been this excited about a young striker talent since the 90s. So yes I think he is a few steps up, talent and potential wise. He is of course just 19, and there is no guarantee he won't flop, but he might also become the next biggest thing in football. I want us to take that chance. It's not like Martial will be a benchwarmer if he isn't the number 1 striker here either, he can play more than one role and rotation up top should give everyone enough gametime, competition, keep'em happy and secure further development.
PS! I also think Greenwood would develop better if he went on loan for a season and a half.
PS!! Watching 3 highlight videos does not qualify as watching the guy and digging into his skillset/qualities
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Exactly. Adding another quality player can only be good for the squad. Only having one striker (Greenwood is only young and Rashford is excellent on the left, therefore only Martial) is not enough.
The bolded there is basically all that need to be known right now. While the other 3 positions have solid starting options we don't have none so far for that AM. We get a good creative player who'll be a massive upgrade on the likes of Perreira, Mata and Lingard and we've sorted out 1 massive gaping hole in our starting 11 which in turn would allow for us to even properly integrate a youngster like Greenwood, and even Rashford can finally play as a striker in a system that'd create without depending on him to play back to goal.
I think people are just failing to realise how important a creative player would massively help us and open avenues for us right now.
Now in case Pogba comes back and slot right in that 10 role(or more like the most advanced of a mid 3) then I see the purchase of that Haaland kid a good option. Though this is a scenario which mostly relies on Fred keeping the form he's shown in his last game. If that scenario were to be viable then we would have a solid starting 11 with most attacking roles sorted and I'd welcome prioritising the purchase of that Kid otherwise I say we focus on what we'd need mostly which is a creative AM.
Creativity and goals is what we need for sure. If Matic is leaving which he probably should then also a DM is possible depending on how Garner fairs over the next month with McTominay injured
We certainly need an AM and a striker, because any one of Rashford/Martial could pick up another injury. In Martials case its very likely.
What if the Attacking mid that Ole wants isn't available in Jan, do we need to wait till we sign AM before signing one more striker?
McT and Fred have done decent job, much better than any attacking mid in their role. So if we can't sign AM then we can just play Pogba in attacking 8 position. We don't even have to sign attacking mid in this case.
Like I said, we need first choice AM and CM without any doubt but if we can't get the ones we need in Jan then we shouldn't stop signing players for other positions.
Exactly this man. Looking at the teams that won their respective league trophies these were their back ups they had as at that time
Barcelona - Boeteng
Man City - Gabriel Jesus
Bayern - No one
PSG - Choupo Moting
Juve - Moise Kean
Liverpool won the champions league - Origi
These days the formula for strikers in a team is usually one is an established world class striker while the back up has potential. Eg Aguero and Gabriel Jesus. The other formula is that one is also an established world class striker while the other is inferior and there purely for back up. Eg Barca bought Boetang in January last season to be back up to Suarez.
I believe all this debate about buying Haaland would be non existent if Martial had already established himself as a world class striker. We clearly wouldn't need Haaland if Kane was our striker instead of Martial. Nobody would be arguing that "This is man united and we've always had competition for positions" because of how good Kane is. Kane doesn't need and nobody has ever said he needs competition instead what he needs is a back up when he's injured.
But the truth is Martial is not Kane. He's not world class yet. But with 5 goals and 3 assists in 8 appearances if he keeps going like this then he can reach Kane's level. We still have 12 games till January by the way so if Martial can still keep playing like this till January and perform well in the big games we have before January then spending 70m plus on another striker would seem highly unnecessary and I'm sure some of the Caf would see this especially when we have other positions to fill
Exactly. With SAF in charge, we signed Yorke when we had Ole, Cole, Sherringham. Then we signed RVN and Forlan when we had Ole, Cole, Yorke.
Saha was signed when we had RVN, Rooney. Right now we are 1 injury away from disaster.
We definitely need to bolster the squad. When you play 50+ games a season, then the team will be rotated due to rest and injuries, it is inconceivable that many players would play in that many games, so we certainly need to buy, as the academy lads (perhaps Williams is an exception) wont get too many starts this season (although I think Gomes could be our 10 come the end of the season). Striker and RW are two positions that would need reinforcing, and Haaland and Sancho would fit the bill, but I also think that at least one more midfielder should come in, two if Pogba goes.
This is my point as well, except I don't think Martial will deliver on Aguero/Kane/Suarez level.
When it comes to his numbers, they should be counted per minute instead of per game. His numbers is very good so far in his 10 appearances (not 8, that is just cherrypicking numbers), but still his numbers is still good. A goal every 141 minutes and a G/A every 88 minutes in all competitions is a lot better than what he has delivered before. Fair play to him for that.
That's a very big if, Martial still has everything to prove.
My name is Erling Haaland - you maimed my father, prepare to die. It clearly is The Princess Bride
There seems to be a misconception that Haaland is some sort of new Lukaku.
He’s a big lad now but if you read about his development he has always been more of a pressing forward. Closer to Firmino than Lukaku.
According to his coaches he filled out and grew dramatically but he has maintained the work rate and speed he had in younger years.
He sounds like a great alternative to Martial who has great ability but can be a bit lazy as we know.
He’s a big lad now but if you read about his development he has always been more of a pressing forward. Closer to Firmino than Lukaku.
According to his coaches he filled out and grew dramatically but he has maintained the work rate and speed he had in younger years.
He sounds like a great alternative to Martial who has great ability but can be a bit lazy as we know.
Very debatable, he's shown just as much if not more from the left.
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