Erik ten Hag vs Sancho | Sancho back in full training

[OmarUnited4ever]

As per his rumored salary, the club owes him like 48M+ in wages. He can't be just let go in Jan. He won't go anywhere. We are broke to pay him that kind of money.

Naah ... the 350k thing isn't really necessarily true, it's probably 200k plus bonuses, and it won't be good for him as 23 yo to sit on a contract and do nothing for 2 years, he'll want to move for his own good or he will risk being jobless by the age of 25.

It's different than having someone who's 29-30 and sit on a big multi-year.

 

[holdsteady]

Is everyone who is critiquing ten Hag forgetting the several month retreat in the Netherlands where ten Hag revealed nothing and let Sancho train alone? He has given this player a lot of rope to get his act together, which he refuses to do. Ten Hag is in the right and I don’t blame him for calling out this petulant little puke Sancho.

No they're upset with ETH for saying he needs to get his physical and mental fitness up and they react to that statement like he's told the world Sancho suffers from schizophrenia

 

[duffer]

O’Hara claiming the treatment he’s receiving is disgusting and Cundy banging on about how you can’t make players train alone anymore because it’s cruel.

If you're a Talksport listener, you surely know that their whole M.O. right? They say something stupid or controversial in order to get people phoning in or quoting them elsewhere.

 

[OmarUnited4ever]

Naah ... the 350k thing isn't really necessarily true, it's probably 200k plus bonuses, (since Ronaldo's DDG departure it was rumored that Cas is the highest paid at 350k so I don't see Sancho being on the bracket as Cas) and it won't be good for him as 23 yo to sit on a contract and do nothing for 2 years, he'll want to move for his own good or he will risk being jobless by the age of 25.

It's different than having someone who's 29-30 and sit on a big multi-year.

 

[pocco]

Naive of you to think our board won't sack a manager the fans have had enough of.

That'll happen regardless. He'll get the blame if we go up in smoke and everybody questions why he handled Sancho as he did.

 

[atkar83]

I'm a bit annoyed at Rashford. He was leading the charge to get Sancho here, they're friends and they played together for England. And they have zero chemistry together on the pitch. I don't even remember them passing to each other in any substantial way

 

[RedDevil@84]

he 350k thing isn't really necessarily true, it's probably 200k plus bonuses

On that topic, I am not sure why many are convinced that his salary is something low as 200k and rest is bonuses. When it came to De Gea 375k, Sanchez 350k, Casemiro 300k, Varane 310k, Bruno 240k and so on, everyone was pretty convinced.
Maybe I am missing some proof out there.

 

[BobFromParva]

Nah mate, when that player is not playing or selected and later sold, then other players see that it's not acceptable.
Also, I'm questioning Ten Hag player assessment at this point, because if Sancho did already have this issue since the first season then he should recognize that Sancho is uncoachable before this season start and sold him in the summer.
Now you are left with an expensive asset that everyone knows has poor mentality and standard that you have to wait until January to sold while his value keeps plummeting.

It’s not as simple as that because Sancho was an incredibly expensive purchase and his salary (if the £350k a week or thereabouts is true) must be one of the biggest in world football . . In the top 10 or 20 maybe?

No club is going to pay a huge amount for a player who‘so rarely played, who’s been pretty damn meh on the rare occasions that he has played and who currently can’t earn a seat on the bench, because of not being arsed in training, and who’s dragging his club through the gutter press by doing not much short of showing his boss the middle finger on social media.
So, if you sold him then you’d sell him at a loss and instead of writing his costs off on an annual basis you’d have to write off the remaining costs in this financial year which could snooker other purchases.

Even worse than that, no club is going to pay him the salary that you’re legally bound to pay him for the rest of his contract and he doesn’t care if he plays or not he wants every penny and won’t move anywhere to earn anything less. So you’d have to subsidise his wages even if someone else was mad enough to sign a player with the mental fortitude of a toddler hyped up on sunny delight and 5 hours past bedtime.

Thus, TH and the club have been doing all they can to get him back in line in the hope that he can regain some semblance of his former inflated value and move on.
There are many 10’s of £millions riding on it and they’re sensible people so, no, they won’t just write off an asset of that value even if it’s currently performing like a clowns car.

Nobody can be happy about this, TH has a really difficult dilemma to deal with and IMO he’s doing the best that can be done under the circumstances. I’m not even a Utd supporter but it breaks my heart to see what the lad had in terms of potential evolve into this sorry state. Were it not for the costs involved I’m sure he’d have had his arse kicked and the door slammed behind him a long time ago.

 

[Trex]

I'm a bit annoyed at Rashford. He was leading the charge to get Sancho here, they're friends and they played together for England. And they have zero chemistry together on the pitch. I don't even remember them passing to each other in any substantial way

So it's Rashford fault now.

 

[pocco]

Respectfully disagree. Management requires integrity and you cannot only call out foul play when things are going well, only a weak manager who lacks conviction in their authority would do so

No but the rest of his post provided context, to the point singled out. Don't you agree that with everything going on, it has only added fuel to the fire? Honestly this season will be a disaster if we don't get out from underneath this crap, this has only made that task harder. But so be it if that's how he wanted to handle it. And I'm not saying don't discipline players, but right now I think it should have been done internally.

 

[crossy1686]

I'm a bit annoyed at Rashford. He was leading the charge to get Sancho here, they're friends and they played together for England. And they have zero chemistry together on the pitch. I don't even remember them passing to each other in any substantial way

I think there’s about 5 other people who at least had something significant to do with the transfer of jandon Sancho who you should actually be angry about. Not a bloke who was once mates with him.

 

[atkar83]

So it's Rashford fault now.

No but it would be nice if they had any type of interplay between them. And the hype Sancho brought was so high compared the complete dud he turned out to be.

 

[elmo]

I am also saying good riddance to Sancho.

The problem is that ETH, by going public, only made it harder to get rid of Sancho. Who is going to buy a player who has been labeled as lazy by his manager? ETH should have said nothing in public, isolated Sancho internally, and asked the management to find a club for him. By going public, ETH achieved absolutely nothing AND made it harder to sell Sancho.

No it’s a last resort to get Sancho to pull his head out of his own ass and realise his time here is in danger of ending.

It’s not ETH’s job to sell Sancho, it is his job to try any means possible to get him playing well.

 

[atkar83]

I think there’s about 5 other people who at least had something significant to do with the transfer of jandon Sancho who you should actually be angry about. Not a bloke who was once mates with him.

"bit annoyed" isn't exactly angry or placing blame

 

[Frank White]

I'm a bit annoyed at Rashford. He was leading the charge to get Sancho here, they're friends and they played together for England. And they have zero chemistry together on the pitch. I don't even remember them passing to each other in any substantial way

Out of everything and everyone to be annoyed at in this scenario you've truly chosen the weirdest option.

 

[pocco]

Agree there but the person who poured it was Sancho. Do you believe if what was said by Eth was last last thing said on the matter that this story would be as big as it is right now? Honestly believe by the time the England squad was announced Harry's inclusion in the team would have been the main talking point for this week.

Possibly so, but he left the door open by going public. And, as I've discovered in this thread, Sancho has previous for pushing back when criticised.

I've read a few articles today about Fergie and how he handled different personalities. In some interviews he even touched upon how the new generation of young players had a different mentality than those he started out with, and he had to take a different approach. A very good manager can recognise personalities and what will work, what will inspire etc. Surely ETH, a much younger guy, is capable of recognising that Sancho would react? And let's not forget, he'll have spoke to him personally already by that point, you'd like to think, so he had the opportunity to gauge his reaction.

 

[Trex]

No but it would be nice if they had any type of interplay between them. And the hype Sancho brought was so high compared the complete dud he turned out to be.

Yeah I think its largely due to Sancho being a dud.

 

[atkar83]

Out of everything and everyone to be annoyed at in this scenario you've truly chosen the weirdest option.

Well I'm sure in 90 pages everyone else has milked this topic dry. My point is that when Rashford was hyping Sancho up in coming here, I thought they'd be a dynamic duo in attack but they've done nothing together. It would be like Bruno hyping up some midfield teammate at Portugal for us to sign, the team spends 100M on him and they have zero chemistry together. Its just more annoying and disappointing than anything else.

 

[tomaldinho1]

Naah ... the 350k thing isn't really necessarily true, it's probably 200k plus bonuses, and it won't be good for him as 23 yo to sit on a contract and do nothing for 2 years, he'll want to move for his own good or he will risk being jobless by the age of 25.

It's different than having someone who's 29-30 and sit on a big multi-year.

But then you have to think of it from Sancho’s perspective, if he is this lazy then it’s not exactly going to be better elsewhere for him. Unless goes Saudi or MLS where I think there’s such a drop in level he could coast and be successful, wherever he’s going the manager is going to expect basic punctuality and effort.

 

[FreakyJim]

Just skimmed through the last 30 pages.

Frostbite and redindiandevil. What a pair of weirdos.

 

[Frank White]

Well I'm sure in 90 pages everyone else has milked this topic dry. My point is that when Rashford was hyping Sancho up in coming here, I thought they'd be a dynamic duo in attack but they've done nothing together. It would be like Bruno hyping up some midfield teammate at Portugal for us to sign, the team spends 100M on him and they have zero chemistry together. Its just more annoying and disappointing than anything else.

Dynamic duo would imply 2, so for what you wanted you would need BOTH to perform. One had a decent season last year getting a good G/A return that helped us get top 4, the other was Sancho. Seems a weird thing to be "annoyed" at but you do you boss.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Possibly so, but he left the door open by going public. And, as I've discovered in this thread, Sancho has previous for pushing back when criticised.

I've read a few articles today about Fergie and how he handled different personalities. In some interviews he even touched upon how the new generation of young players had a different mentality than those he started out with, and he had to take a different approach. A very good manager can recognise personalities and what will work, what will inspire etc. Surely ETH, a much younger guy, is capable of recognising that Sancho would react? And let's not forget, he'll have spoke to him personally already by that point, you'd like to think, so he had the opportunity to gauge his reaction.

You don’t think that ETH has maybe already tried everything possible to get a tune out of Sancho? It’s not as though he came out and said we shipped him off to Holland last season because he was stinking out the place in training (when that’s probably exactly what was happening) There’e only so long any manager can be expected to keep covering for a player who just isn’t producing.

And it’s not as though he threw him under the bus. He just explained why he didn’t make the matchday squad for one specific game. The obvious hope here was that Sancho would be fired up to prove to the manager (and the rest of the world) that he deserved his place in the next matchday squad. Which is a reasonable tactic to try, as a last resort. Subsequent events have proven that, at the very least, he was right to assume that calling Sancho out in public will get a reaction out of him. The wrong reaction, as it turns out, but if you’ve already tried everything else to get the right reaction…

 

[crossy1686]

Just skimmed through the last 30 pages.

Frostbite and redindiandevil. What a pair of weirdos.

Did you miss the guy that said Ten Hag was ‘ranting’ about Sancho and caused all this mess?

 

[crossy1686]

"bit annoyed" isn't exactly angry or placing blame

We didn’t open the cheque book because Rashford said he was a mate. I doubt his opinion was even considered at any point.

 

[Plastic Evra]

It’s not as simple as that because Sancho was an incredibly expensive purchase and his salary (if the £350k a week or thereabouts is true) must be one of the biggest in world football . . In the top 10 or 20 maybe?

No club is going to pay a huge amount for a player who‘so rarely played, who’s been pretty damn meh on the rare occasions that he has played and who currently can’t earn a seat on the bench, because of not being arsed in training, and who’s dragging his club through the gutter press by doing not much short of showing his boss the middle finger on social media.
So, if you sold him then you’d sell him at a loss and instead of writing his costs off on an annual basis you’d have to write off the remaining costs in this financial year which could snooker other purchases.

Even worse than that, no club is going to pay him the salary that you’re legally bound to pay him for the rest of his contract and he doesn’t care if he plays or not he wants every penny and won’t move anywhere to earn anything less. So you’d have to subsidise his wages even if someone else was mad enough to sign a player with the mental fortitude of a toddler hyped up on sunny delight and 5 hours past bedtime.

Thus, TH and the club have been doing all they can to get him back in line in the hope that he can regain some semblance of his former inflated value and move on.
There are many 10’s of £millions riding on it and they’re sensible people so, no, they won’t just write off an asset of that value even if it’s currently performing like a clowns car.

Nobody can be happy about this, TH has a really difficult dilemma to deal with and IMO he’s doing the best that can be done under the circumstances. I’m not even a Utd supporter but it breaks my heart to see what the lad had in terms of potential evolve into this sorry state. Were it not for the costs involved I’m sure he’d have had his arse kicked and the door slammed behind him a long time ago.

With the Saudi wave of signings coming with crazy packages, it's probably not at the top worldwide but -provided the north of 300k/week is right- probably top 10-20 in EPL and thus probably top 20-40 (rough guess) in UEFA (Really Bayern, PSG, Real and Barca... maybe a couple in Serie A ?).

Basically should be a Ballon d'Or nominee every other year.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

It’s not as simple as that because Sancho was an incredibly expensive purchase and his salary (if the £350k a week or thereabouts is true) must be one of the biggest in world football . . In the top 10 or 20 maybe?

No club is going to pay a huge amount for a player who‘so rarely played, who’s been pretty damn meh on the rare occasions that he has played and who currently can’t earn a seat on the bench, because of not being arsed in training, and who’s dragging his club through the gutter press by doing not much short of showing his boss the middle finger on social media.
So, if you sold him then you’d sell him at a loss and instead of writing his costs off on an annual basis you’d have to write off the remaining costs in this financial year which could snooker other purchases.

Even worse than that, no club is going to pay him the salary that you’re legally bound to pay him for the rest of his contract and he doesn’t care if he plays or not he wants every penny and won’t move anywhere to earn anything less. So you’d have to subsidise his wages even if someone else was mad enough to sign a player with the mental fortitude of a toddler hyped up on sunny delight and 5 hours past bedtime.

Thus, TH and the club have been doing all they can to get him back in line in the hope that he can regain some semblance of his former inflated value and move on.
There are many 10’s of £millions riding on it and they’re sensible people so, no, they won’t just write off an asset of that value even if it’s currently performing like a clowns car.

Nobody can be happy about this, TH has a really difficult dilemma to deal with and IMO he’s doing the best that can be done under the circumstances. I’m not even a Utd supporter but it breaks my heart to see what the lad had in terms of potential evolve into this sorry state. Were it not for the costs involved I’m sure he’d have had his arse kicked and the door slammed behind him a long time ago.

Good post.

 

[ForeverRed1]

I'm a bit annoyed at Rashford. He was leading the charge to get Sancho here, they're friends and they played together for England. And they have zero chemistry together on the pitch. I don't even remember them passing to each other in any substantial way

White text?

 

[Revaulx]

Actually, ETH's bluntness reminds me a bit of LVG - remember when he first arrived and declared starkly in a presser that "Luke Shaw is not fit".

Yes it reminded me of that

Though LVG immediately followed it up by saying that Shaw had been put on an individual training plan, praised him for his application and made it clear that he would be available before long. Sancho seems like a lost cause.

 

[RedDevilQuebecois]

Seems to be an element of the online support determined to turn on the manager. A real shame, as the culture at the club and with a large number of these players has proven to be rotten for too long. Sancho not the cause of the rot obviously, but he is emblematic of it.

Speaking of those people turning on the manager, I actually wonder how many of them can also be considered as those kids who never faced real parental discipline in order to get their (professional and/or personal) lives in order. Many parents have been abject failures in recent decades, and it is reflected in a number of footballers in the last decade or so.

I don't claim to know what kind of parents Sancho have, but one certainty is that parenting has failed somewhere as the boy does not have the right attitude demanded in a professional. I previously brought up that throwback to Amin Younes dismissing a direct order from ETH during a match and I find it interesting because Younes' own current situation is becoming likely to be Sancho's in 5 years down the road with such attitude.

Anyway... Sayonara, Sancho, you fool.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Yes it reminded me of that

Though LVG immediately followed it up by saying that Shaw had been put on an individual training plan, praised him for his application and made it clear that he would be available before long. Sancho seems like a lost cause.

Same with Sancho and his trip to the Netherlands.

 

[cpresc]

It’s more about his lack of hunger…

he lost his team position because the manager said he didn’t train hard enough and wasn’t at the required physical state.

his response could have been to use the break to boost his fitness, but it wasn‘t

hes simply not hungry enough

 

[McTerminator]

Let's assume that ETH was telling the truth when he answered a reporter's question with the following words:

"On his performance on training we didn't select him," the manager said. "You have to reach the level every day at Manchester United. You can make choices in the front line, so in this game, he wasn't selected."

I'm just a caftard who lives 5,120 miles from Old Trafford so I can only assume that ETH was telling the truth, but what I see on the pitch on matchdays is a footballer who woefully underperforms relative to reasonable expectations. The two are likely connected, but we only know what we hear since we don't watch training sessions.

But the more important point is this: that a manager is under no professional or ethical obligation or share with the media and the 1 billion people around the world who support or at lease closely following United on the training habits of his players. ETH could have, and I believe, should have said something more like the following:

"The squad selection is mine alone to make and I don't need to explain to you or anyone else why any of my players are in or out of the squad on any given matchday."

ETH could still have been furious with Sancho over his poor training -- and quite truthfully, consistently poor performances in competitive matches since the day he arrived -- the prior week but not aired internal squad dirty laundry with the public, thus avoiding the debacle that has unfolded and continues to grow by the hour. Not one of us has a problem now, or three weeks ago, with ETH dropping Sancho in favor of Pellistri, a footballer who isn't as naturally gifted as Sancho but has put his head down and done the hard work to earn what at least I hope will be a start tomorrow against Brighton.

Candor isn't always prudent. Candor is often imprudent. Candor is sometimes catastrophic. It's pretty safe to say now that ETH's candor was imprudent, even if 99% of the responsibility for Sancho's poor performances lies with Sancho.

Your proposed wording is terrible and ETH would get absolutely lambasted as being cracked and caving under the pressure.

Think ETH has spent his first year protecting and coddling Sancho to be repaid by him with this circus over a nothing comment.

Sancho needs to grow up, that’s all there is to it.

 

[Cassidy]

No but the rest of his post provided context, to the point singled out. Don't you agree that with everything going on, it has only added fuel to the fire? Honestly this season will be a disaster if we don't get out from underneath this crap, this has only made that task harder. But so be it if that's how he wanted to handle it. And I'm not saying don't discipline players, but right now I think it should have been done internally.

I said I did not agree. Sancho made it a big story it didn’t have to be. Either way nothing wrong with what ETH said period.

Sancho isn’t going to be a big miss either.

What we can not afford this season is players thinking they don’t have to follow the rules, track back, turn up on time for training and meetings because ETH has zero authority.

 

[Paul778]

I assume that he is legally required to turn up to training or he won't get paid. I wonder if turning up week in week out to personal training at carrington away from everyone else might be enough for him to see sense.

Either he bucks his ideas up and backs down or he's rotting here for the remainder of his contract. Like many have said, cannot imagine any tram stupid enough to pay for him in january.

1 to 1 training it is then - preferably on the pitch easiest for the paps to get their pictures

 

[fps]

Gave him way too much money, that salary has been incredibly counterproductive. One of many people in this country who realise they just have to con people long enough to get the payout, and then they don’t have to try any more.

 

[Revaulx]

Same with Sancho and his trip to the Netherlands.

Same but different. LVG was upbeat about it being of finite length and having the desired result.

Some players are high maintenance and need a lot of management; it’s all very well saying they shouldn’t be on the amount they are paid, but that’s the way it is. Which isn’t much of a problem if they pay you back through knuckling down and performing. Sancho looked as lackadaisical on his return from his Dutch boot camp (or whatever) as he did before it.

 

[ryan_forlan]

In this situation yes. EtH made a mistake and I will hold this against him.

What he did now when asked about Sancho is what he should have done after the Arsenal game.

Can you elaborate on this? Post Arsenal game, ETH was asked why Sancho was not in the squad. Can you share what you think ETH should have said?

 

[Wing Attack Plan R]

Protect the club's image? Not give the press ammunition to spin a negative story about the club at a time when we could do without more drama? Protect his player? Preserve a players value if he's thinking of selling him soon?

Maybe you're right. Managers should just go public with every behind the scenes issue they are having with their players.

I'll take you through these one at a time.
1. protecting the club's image: by telling the press a player has been left out for not meeting minimum standards, that is literally protecting the club's image.
2. the press and spin and drama: between Greenwood, Antony, and Maguire, they have enough topics. Adding Sancho being a lazy git is not going to dramatically alter the narrative.
3. the only answer he could give that would "protect" Sancho would be a bald-faced lie. ETH has been a breath of fresh air because he refuses to give political answers. The press haven't been fecking with him specifically because he gives them honest answers, or he won't comment. ETH was between a rock and hard place. He probably didn't walk into the press conference with a ready-made excuse for Sancho's absence. I think he did fine with his answer. You seem to be glossing over the fact that ETH sent Sancho out of the first team for months to get himself together. That is more protection than any professional needs, frankly.
4. player value: people can watch Sancho stink out the joint whenever he does feature, being told he's being half-assed in training is not going to crater his value.

 

[Thomas A.Anderson]

Protect the club's image?

Mate, if Ten Hag pulls his pants down and take a dump in the centre of the pitch that would be one of more positive news from the club in the last months.

What image?

 

[Wing Attack Plan R]

But then you have to think of it from Sancho’s perspective, if he is this lazy then it’s not exactly going to be better elsewhere for him. Unless goes Saudi or MLS where I think there’s such a drop in level he could coast and be successful, wherever he’s going the manager is going to expect basic punctuality and effort.

The main thing players in the MLS do is run ridiculous amounts. The quality is low but the athleticism is high. They would not put up with him walking around the pitch.