Erik ten Hag vs Sancho | Sancho back in full training

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Gordon Godot said:
I am sure Ole or one of the hierarchy claimed we had a new phase in recruitment to assess character. Seems like we ignored huge red flags with Sancho.
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I don't think they were this huge. There are many young players who have disciplinary issues. It is rather the case of a player with some growing up to do coming into an environment that drove him in exactly the wrong direction.
 
The Ferociousness said:
I can't believe you even asked that question. A man who has won several CL titles, Prem titles, won leagues titles across Europe in seria A, epl and la liga. played under Zidane Ancelotti, Sir Alex Ferguson broken records upon records both domestically and internationally and you think you should ignore what this man has to say but we should blindly eat and feed from the hand of a manager who has only managed in the dutch league where steve mclaren won the league title in his first season with FC twente? . Do me a favour

Jesus Christ, this fanbase is lost. I'm not a ronaldo fan boy but he he reached heights ETH never achieved as a player. Read my posts above I've gone into great detail on how eth mismanaged Ronaldo, DDG and now using sancho as a scapegoat to deflect away from the fact that eth comes up short every time we play a top 9 team away from home

ETH is making a rod off his own back by throwing players under the bus. Sancho is being targeted. If eth doesn't talk about sancho the scrutiny will be on eth for his tactics and his poor away form against the big teams. You need to realise eth is feeling the pressure and is deflecting on to players who he feels are disposable. Sancho is being scapegoated to deflect away fromthe fact how poor antony has been and how ETH is struggling in his 2nd season

Mark my wordst the chickens are coming home to roost real soon and real fast. The club is in a mess due to many of the miscalculated decisions eth has made
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hello Piers!
 
RuudTom83 said:
When all the dust settles United are still left with a player on the bench who's level is probably that of an Aston Villa. Sat next to a defender who's level is West Ham. Sat next to a CM who's level is probably Rangers.

United can't get rid of him, just like they can't get rid of the others.

EtH hasn't had many easy weeks as the manager...lucky he never had any hair when he arrived.
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Assuming you're talking about McTominay, we absolutely could have gotten rid of him. There was a 30m bid on the table. We chose not to.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
I’d like to think Diallo is in the mix too, soon enough.
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Yeah, will be interesting to see with Diallo. In any case, Sancho is clearly expendable regardless of the Antony situation. I figure he has until January to try and save his United career.
 
Eddy_JukeZ said:
Sanchez having an amazing career is irrelevant to his performances at United.

He was terrible here. Similar to Schweinsteiger. Both were awful transfers for us, because we signed 2 players clearly on the wane.

What they amounted to post-United pretty much confirms they were a busted fish here.
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Again, Sanchez has had an amazing career. And he also found good form after United - so I don’t know what you’re talking about.

Classing Sanchez as a player that lacks mental fortitude and resilience because of his spell at United is hilarious.

JuriM said:
Despite not being maybe as sharp as he was in Barcelona and his first Arsenal seasons, he did well at Inter & Marseille and is now back at Inter. He failed big time at United and that's only on his own merit to regret.
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So he did relatively well everywhere else but United - the common denominator being United - which is the point I made in my post. Cool.
 
Andersonson said:
An insult to Young this, he was class compared to Sancho. He has been as crap as Falcao, who is maybe the worst player i've seen at United if you take expectations into consideration.
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I wish we had 10 players with an ounce of the professionalism and determination Young had. Might be an unpopular opinion but I liked him a lot, gave everything always. Only need to see the reception he got at Old Trafford last year coming back with Villa.
 
Martial said:
He has given us fewer decent performances than fecking Daniel James.
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Don't know about assist numbers but:

Dan James 74 games 9 goals
Sancho 82 games 12 goals

Not great reading is it :( . I'm not sure what to think about all the reports but we seem to be cursed when buying wide forwards. Dan James was at least a bargain signing that did ok at times.
 
Irwin99 said:
Don't know about assist numbers but:

Dan James 74 games 9 goals
Sancho 82 games 12 goals

Not great reading is it :( . I'm not sure what to think about all the reports but we seem to be cursed when buying wide forwards. Dan James was at least a bargain signing that did ok at times.
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And we managed to sell DJ on at a profit iirc?
 
Always find it interesting how when something like this happens, all of a sudden these hacks have got all this inside information which they totally knew all along but inexplicably forgot to mention until now.

Almost like they're making it up.
 
What is so wrong with saying a player was not selected because the coaching staff can only select so many players, and this player didn't meet the mark that week?
 
I doubt Sancho is going to be frozen out if Antony ends up being suspended but he won't be a starter outside of the odd game or in case of injury.
I would expect ETH to use a front line of Martial/Garnacho Hojlund and Rashford before starting Sancho at this point.
 
Eddy_JukeZ said:
Sanchez having an amazing career is irrelevant to his performances at United.

He was terrible here. Similar to Schweinsteiger. Both were awful transfers for us, because we signed 2 players clearly on the wane.

What they amounted to post-United pretty much confirms they were a busted fish here.
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Sanchez was one of the best PL players when we signed him so to say he lacked "mental resilience" is absurd sentence. He was past it here, sure, but you can't question his mentality as a player, for God's sake. He carried Arsenal on his shoulder alone for years.
 
Glorio said:
What is so wrong with saying a player was not selected because the coaching staff can only select so many players, and this player didn't meet the mark that week?
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Pogue Mahone said:
That's exactly wjat he said
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Obviously paraphrasing, but this is the exact quote:
"On his performance on training we didn't select him. You have to reach the level every day at Manchester United. We can make choices in the front line, so in this game he wasn't selected."
 
The Ferociousness said:
Ronaldo's baby daughter was ill in the hospital during pre season which Ronaldo was in distress attending to every day and this was just three months after his newborn son had passed. Ten Hag treated him like a piece of meat who had to prove himself when he returned, and apparently didn't even believe Ronaldo. He was humiliated

Ronaldo felt the only way to let people know how he was being mistreated was to speak out. And he exposed so many issues within the club which we are still reeling from to this day. Namely, the infrastructure, ten hag's tactics which Ronaldo had reservations about and the questionable training he was putting the players through. Ever wonder why our players are unfit and picking up so many injuries?

Listen to what Ronaldo said. This man played under peak Mourinho, Sir Alex Ferguson and Carlo Ancelloti and never had these type of issues with them until he crossed paths with Ten hag, who has now treated players like De Gea, Sancho and Ronaldo like cattle. When Ronaldo speaks, you listen.

Open your eyes There's a common denominator here and it ain't f-king Christiano Ronaldo. Ten hag destroyed his career and he's now on his way to destroying both sancho and pellestri's career due to nepotism and having favourites. Don't be surprised when the rest of the players get fed up and then when Brighton run us over and you see an array of players not bothering to bust a gut to track back for the manager. You will know why

If Ten Hag wants to remedy this before things spiral out of control, he will get a sense of himself and be on the phone to sancho explaining why he felt the need to publicly oust him after we got beat by Arsenal
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In disbelief reading this.
 
Glorio said:
Obviously paraphrasing, but this is the exact quote:
"On his performance on training we didn't select him. You have to reach the level every day at Manchester United. We can make choices in the front line, so in this game he wasn't selected."
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And there truly is nothing wrong about making such a statement about the training performances of the players. Everyone criticising EtH for making this statement truly is overreacting. This includes Sancho.

However I do have some sympathy for his frustration, despite it definitely being absolutely his own problem. The whole situation only is news because you don't expect a top earner to be a low performer. Just looking at the facts it's just that the manager thinks some player is currently better training than another.

If people would have left it at this, then I don't think that we would have this massive discussion now. But instead a lot of anger and frustration was voiced against Sancho. It's not surprising that Sancho lashes out, but it would have been much smarter to react towards the media and probably add a line about acknowledging better performances of his team mates.

That way there would be no discussion about broken relations to the manager or the squad now.
 
The Ferociousness said:
We heard the same thing about Ole who inherited a squad that was demoralised from the Mourinho era. Remember the honeymoon period of how much Ole was praised for lifting the spirits of the players and how much more freedom the players were given to express themselves? Both ole and ten hag took on a struggling side. United were statistically having the worst season before ten hag but the players were largely the same and ten hag got to add in casemiro and others to fix that squad. There was only going to be an upward trajectory, the question was always going to be how high

Newcastle were battling relegation the season before last. That fact they finished 4th shows what an incredible Job Eddie Howe achieved, if anything and I don't see newcastle fans creating a cult around him

I have no problem celebrating it, but it's clearly gone to the fans, players and manager's head. ETH is now described as a genius, the best ever manager since Fergie they say who dare not be questioned for simply finishing in the top 4 and winning the most irrelevant domestic cup trophy which in my opinion is the bare minimum of what should be achieved at the club of our stature
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Regardless of our club stature, I'm pretty sure no one expected us to win anything at all last year considering what we witnessed under Rangnick. Hence, I firmly believe that ten Hag has done a far better job than any of our recent managers.

He also got control of the dressing room, which I was frankly growing tired of the leaks and murmurs of discontent about the manager coming from the players. Sancho's Twitter post came at a time when we are tired of players trying to make power plays, I am not surprised that most of us are not on his side.

Newcastle fans not creating a cult around Howe is not my concern. I'm a United supporter, and I support ten Hag on this.

The difference is SAF didn't publicly disclose all the problems he had with ruud while those things were happening during his time at the club. He simply sold him. Another example is Paul Scholes who refused to play against Arsenal in the League Cup, as he was unhappy for being substituted in the previous game against Liverpool. Many fans don't even know about because SAF was wise enough to keep it in house and discipline internally. He did not tell the media that scholes refused to play and will not feature as a result as he knew they would only blow things up between himself, the player and the club. If SAF did a Ten Hag, you would've scholes again
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There were the ones we didn't hear about, but Sir Alex Ferguson has absolutely publicly criticized his players. A list by Luckhurst.
https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/manchester-united-players-publicly-felt-8892772

Ralf Rangnick pulled a similar stunt to ten hag when he told the media that martial refused to play, when it was a miscommunication between the medical staff in not disclosing to him that martial was carrying a knock and Martial had to come out to refute the claims that he outright refused to play for Manchester United. We know how that story ended, as Ralf eventually lost the dressing room and results ended up nose diving. There is no benefit whatsoever in Ten hag telling the whole world that he left out sancho due to not being happy with his training levels, immediately after we lost to Arsenal. It's pure ego and deflection
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It's not deflection. ten Hag was asked why McTominay and Sancho didn't play and he responded accordingly. If Sancho didn't make his Twitter statement but got his head down to work, ten Hag's response when he gets reinstated would be: he put in the work, he's back in the team. Simple.

For example, Rashford was late last season. Dropped to the bench, and then took accountability during the post match interview. Twitter is not the way to respond.

Sancho is now getting a shit load of abuse on social media and this was before he even put out his statement as a result of Ten Hag's revelation about him not being happy with his training levels. No matter which way you look at it, eth has stoked the fire, until now there wasn't much negative scrutiny on sancho, many in fact gave him praise for his efforts in pre season and wanted to see him be given a run ahead of Antony who's performances have been hot and cold. Now the pitchforks are all out on Sancho and every I've seen people are saying Sancho is the problem and needs to go ignoring the fact we've lost and ignoring the fact we have a 100 million winger who is now under investigation and he is receiving more support from our own fans than Sancho which is crazy
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If the bolded part were the case, then Sancho has absolutely no claim when he says that "he's been scapegoated for a long time" now, is there?

I am 100% against the abuse on social media. I am over here on the caf discussing ten Hag vs Sancho, not directing my thoughts at the player himself. Social media abuse/cyberbullying is wrong.

I am also mindful of the discussions around mental health. I am sure Sancho can (and should) afford a good therapist with that >£300k pw we pay him. Mental health is just as important as physical health.

Well the club has already leaked information that Ten hag is ready to come down hard on Jadon Sancho, so I think at this point his united career is over all because the manager couldn't help himself in trying to show off on how much of a big boss he is in a post presser
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See above re. ten Hag answering question about Sancho being missing from the team list. Sancho chose to respond on Twitter instead of on the pitch.
 
The Ferociousness said:
The club is in a mess due to many of the miscalculated decisions eth has made
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The club is in a mess due to the many miscalculated decisions Woodward and then Arnold and Murtough have made. Including signing a washed up egomaniac like Ronaldo.
 
The Ferociousness said:
Ronaldo's baby daughter was ill in the hospital during pre season which Ronaldo was in distress attending to every day and this was just three months after his newborn son had passed. Ten Hag treated him like a piece of meat who had to prove himself when he returned, and apparently didn't even believe Ronaldo. He was humiliated

Ronaldo felt the only way to let people know how he was being mistreated was to speak out. And he exposed so many issues within the club which we are still reeling from to this day. Namely, the infrastructure, ten hag's tactics which Ronaldo had reservations about and the questionable training he was putting the players through. Ever wonder why our players are unfit and picking up so many injuries?

Listen to what Ronaldo said. This man played under peak Mourinho, Sir Alex Ferguson and Carlo Ancelloti and never had these type of issues with them until he crossed paths with Ten hag, who has now treated players like De Gea, Sancho and Ronaldo like cattle. When Ronaldo speaks, you listen.

Open your eyes There's a common denominator here and it ain't f-king Christiano Ronaldo. Ten hag destroyed his career and he's now on his way to destroying both sancho and pellestri's career due to nepotism and having favourites. Don't be surprised when the rest of the players get fed up and then when Brighton run us over and you see an array of players not bothering to bust a gut to track back for the manager. You will know why

If Ten Hag wants to remedy this before things spiral out of control, he will get a sense of himself and be on the phone to sancho explaining why he felt the need to publicly oust him after we got beat by Arsenal
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Must be Ronaldo's burner account.
 
stefan92 said:
And there truly is nothing wrong about making such a statement about the training performances of the players. Everyone criticising EtH for making this statement truly is overreacting. This includes Sancho.

However I do have some sympathy for his frustration, despite it definitely being absolutely his own problem. The whole situation only is news because you don't expect a top earner to be a low performer. Just looking at the facts it's just that the manager thinks some player is currently better training than another.

If people would have left it at this, then I don't think that we would have this massive discussion now. But instead a lot of anger and frustration was voiced against Sancho. It's not surprising that Sancho lashes out, but it would have been much smarter to react towards the media and probably add a line about acknowledging better performances of his team mates.

That way there would be no discussion about broken relations to the manager or the squad now.
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Agreed, it's definitely been made into more of a thing than it should have been.
 
The Ferociousness said:
Ronaldo's baby daughter was ill in the hospital during pre season which Ronaldo was in distress attending to every day and this was just three months after his newborn son had passed. Ten Hag treated him like a piece of meat who had to prove himself when he returned, and apparently didn't even believe Ronaldo. He was humiliated

Ronaldo felt the only way to let people know how he was being mistreated was to speak out. And he exposed so many issues within the club which we are still reeling from to this day. Namely, the infrastructure, ten hag's tactics which Ronaldo had reservations about and the questionable training he was putting the players through. Ever wonder why our players are unfit and picking up so many injuries?

Listen to what Ronaldo said. This man played under peak Mourinho, Sir Alex Ferguson and Carlo Ancelloti and never had these type of issues with them until he crossed paths with Ten hag, who has now treated players like De Gea, Sancho and Ronaldo like cattle. When Ronaldo speaks, you listen.

Open your eyes There's a common denominator here and it ain't f-king Christiano Ronaldo. Ten hag destroyed his career and he's now on his way to destroying both sancho and pellestri's career due to nepotism and having favourites. Don't be surprised when the rest of the players get fed up and then when Brighton run us over and you see an array of players not bothering to bust a gut to track back for the manager. You will know why

If Ten Hag wants to remedy this before things spiral out of control, he will get a sense of himself and be on the phone to sancho explaining why he felt the need to publicly oust him after we got beat by Arsenal
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Is this Piers Morgan in disguise?
 
At the end of the day, you can blame the manager all you want for the wrong tactics and playing style but the fact is Sancho has still looked physically well short of the standards required to succeed in this league.
 
The lad's shown some Aries qualities at last! Maybe some some healthy distrust of management is what he needs to kick start his United career. Here's hoping from a fellow Aries.
 
Glorio said:
"On his performance on training we didn't select him. You have to reach the level every day at Manchester United. We can make choices in the front line, so in this game he wasn't selected."
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It's not exactly (more or less) calling Rooney too fat or kicking a football boot into Beckham's head is it, or punching a player in the face (re: Brian Clough).

Nope, Sancho got the mildest rebuke from the boss. Not even that personal, just a statement of his selection principles as he applies to everyone. And the bedwetters go nuts.

Ridiculous. No wonder we don't get anywhere when you have players like that you are trying to rely on, and fans prepared to excuse it.

(And in truth they excuse it because - let's face it - they want a stick to beat ETH with because he signed Mount).
 
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el3mel said:
Sanchez was one of the best PL players when we signed him so to say he lacked "mental resilience" is absurd sentence. He was past it here, sure, but you can't question his mentality as a player, for God's sake. He carried Arsenal on his shoulder alone for years.
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Who said he lacked mental resilience?

Are you even reading? I just said he was on the wane prior to his move here and then declined even more here.
 
TsuWave said:
Again, Sanchez has had an amazing career. And he also found good form after United - so I don’t know what you’re talking about.

Classing Sanchez as a player that lacks mental fortitude and resilience because of his spell at United is hilarious.
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You're not reading what I said.

I never said he lacks mental fortitude.

He find 'good' form after United, but he is nowhere near the player he was. Otherwise, he wouldn't be switching clubs constantly. He's barely going to play for Inter this season in all likelihood.
 
Eddy_JukeZ said:
You're not reading what I said.

I never said he lacks mental fortitude.

He find 'good' form after United, but he is nowhere near the player he was. Otherwise, he wouldn't be switching clubs constantly. He's barely going to play for Inter this season in all likelihood.
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You know that you're the one that quoted my post in response to someone saying "Sanchez lacks mental fortitude and resilience", right?

The whole premise of my post - the one you quoted - was that that's a ridiculous thing to say because he's had an amazing career before and after United

to which you then replied "Sanchez having an amazing career is irrelevant to his performances at United" - which makes no sense contextually
 
TsuWave said:
You know that you're the one that quoted my post in response to someone saying "Sanchez lacks mental fortitude and resilience", right?

The whole premise of my post - the one you quoted - was that that's a ridiculous thing to say because he's had an amazing career. before and after United
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I quoted your post and immediately stated him having an amazing career is irrelevant to his performances at United.

Re-read my post. I never once talked about mental fortitude.

"Sanchez having an amazing career is irrelevant to his performances at United.

He was terrible here. Similar to Schweinsteiger. Both were awful transfers for us, because we signed 2 players clearly on the wane. "
 
Eddy_JukeZ said:
I quoted your post and immediately stated him having an amazing career is irrelevant to his performances at United.

Re-read my post. I never once talked about mental fortitude.

"Sanchez having an amazing career is irrelevant to his performances at United.

He was terrible here. Similar to Schweinsteiger. Both were awful transfers for us, because we signed 2 players clearly on the wane. "
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This is the dumbest exchange ever. Feels like something out of a Jim Carrey movie

Person A: Sanchez lacks mental fortitude and resilience
Me: Yeah, it's not as if he's had an amazing career and was good everywhere else. United has been the common denominator for bad spells recently
You: Sanchez having an amazing career is irrelevant to his performances at United
Me: ?? that's dumb - that assertion was made in the context of him supposedly lacking mental fortitude - which is comical considering he's had an amazing career
You: Re-read my post I never once talked about mental fortitude
Me: ?? You quoted my post in which I was directly responding to the mental fortitude and resilience remark regarding Sanchez - and said that the one thing that can be used to show he has plentiful mental fortitude and resilience is "irrelevant" - how does that make sense contextually?

:confused:
 
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