Erik ten Hag vs Sancho | Sancho back in full training

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UnitedSofa said:
Not sure if serious but considering there was late night gaming sessions and his apparent petulance and hot/cold behaviour, it has been reported that he can be loud and extroverted but also very reserved. It can explain a lot. Lack of sleep can affect you in all manner of ways
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Being serious yeh. It would explain everything.
 
There is only one place that article could have come from. This is pretty sad stuff and we are kind of fecked really
 
We’re putting in a lot of effort for a player who’s shown less for us than Tom Cleverley and Darron Gibson.
 
Absolutely dumbfounded by the strategy here from the players side...

Why would you push back against and come out in hindsight, complaining over the grace period manager offered you in a time of need? They were leaking the exact opposite just months ago about how much the player appreciated the support and wanted to repay the manager for it.

Support which only helped garner fan and media wide support for you on your side during a period of struggle mind you, only to come out months later to shoot down said support and claim the manager somehow acted wrongly.

The reality is that he bent over backwards to offer him support that he needed to an extent that you rarely see at other clubs, especially mid season. Him stating to the press that he had been afforded time to work on his wellness was the most graceful way to go about it as well to prevent the incessant media and fan speculation that would've continued ad-nauseum had the club not said a word when one of their stars was inconspicuously out of the team for months consecutively...

Just imagine the media circus which would've been hovering over the club had the manager not stated clearly thar he was given time to work through whatever issues he was going through.

Truly don't understand what they're playing at or hope to accomplish with everything we've heard since the Arsenal match. It's self-defeating and only works to make his life at the club much harder than it has been given the sensitivity and understanding that he's been afforded with already.
 
Very clickbaity article which I hope people haven’t fallen for.
The club never said he had mental health issues but on here at least we thought his attitude sucked, he seemed so half arsed and uninterested and there were stories of him not taking gym seriously or doing fitness work to the level of others. Then ETH gave him the sabbatical which was very generous in my mind as Sancho had been so poor, you never really see managers do that for players ever, we really should have sold him then and probably could have found a buyer much easier than now.

Antony has hardly set the world alight but I think even his critics see the graft and fight in him, if Sancho just showed even a little if that people would have so much more time for him.
 
AltiUn said:
We’re putting in a lot of effort for a player who’s shown less for us than Tom Cleverley and Darron Gibson.
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If someone told you during the Moyes era that we would sign a player a few years later for 80m who plays worse than Ashley Young did as winger in that time period, how depressed would you be?
 
DRJosh said:
Sancho and piano playing Sánchez - players who lack mental resilience and fortitude
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Nah, that's unfair to Sanchez. He was phenomenal at Arsenal and one generally one of their hardest workers on the pitch. It's not even close. He was garbage for us yes, but I don't believe it was because of mental resilience and fortitude.
 
santeria13 said:
Nah, that's unfair to Sanchez. He was phenomenal at Arsenal and one generally one of their hardest workers on the pitch. It's not even close. He was garbage for us yes, but I don't believe it was because of mental resilience and fortitude.
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It is actually fair, as Sancho was (almost) exactly that for Dortmund as well.
 
stefan92 said:
It is actually fair, as Sancho was (almost) exactly that for Dortmund as well.
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Yeah but Sanchez did it in the Premier League as opposed to the Bundesliga. Sanchez was also really good at Barcelona, so he wasn't exactly a one hit wonder. Performing in two high quality leagues over 7+ years is a lot different to performing for 2 in a mediocre league. I feel like he just lost a lot of speed and explosiveness in that year before joining us, which accelerated in his time here.
 
stefan92 said:
It is actually fair, as Sancho was (almost) exactly that for Dortmund as well.
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I don’t know, Sanchez still put in the yards on the pitch he just seemed to have lost so much dynamism and pace. Was like watching Soccer Aid and seeing one of the old great attackers come on, they still have the class and touch but move through treacle. I feel like Sancho is physically capable of doing a lot more but, for whatever reason, he doesn’t.
 
Shocking news just in as footballer who plays for one of the biggest clubs in the world doesn't like scrutiny. Sources say he would prefer it if everyone stopped talking about him and his performances, especially his boss, so he could collect his £350k a week in peace.
 
tomaldinho1 said:
Very clickbaity article which I hope people haven’t fallen for.
The club never said he had mental health issues but on here at least we thought his attitude sucked, he seemed so half arsed and uninterested and there were stories of him not taking gym seriously or doing fitness work to the level of others. Then ETH gave him the sabbatical which was very generous in my mind as Sancho had been so poor, you never really see managers do that for players ever, we really should have sold him then and probably could have found a buyer much easier than now.

Antony has hardly set the world alight but I think even his critics see the graft and fight in him, if Sancho just showed even a little if that people would have so much more time for him.
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Thing is, everyone has already been extremely patient with him as it is. This is his third season with us and he's yet to really kick on so I'm not sure what you'd expect from a manager if the application is still lacking even after the tremendous amount of patience and time you've been afforded as it is...
 
santeria13 said:
Yeah but Sanchez did it in the Premier League as opposed to the Bundesliga. Sanchez was also really good at Barcelona, so he wasn't exactly a one hit wonder. Performing in two high quality leagues over 7+ years is a lot different to performing for 2 in a mediocre league.
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True there is a difference, but I don't think that that is the relevant point in comparing those two. Both were stars of their teams before their move and worked hard for it, both got a contract from United with enormous wages, both just did never truly perform for United.
 
There's definitely someone in Sancho's camp spinning these stories. There was such an easy way out when all this started but 4 days on he still has the post pinned on his twitter.

Talented enough player but really lacks the grit that Ten Hag has looked for in basically all his signings.
 
Rolaholic said:
Thing is, everyone has already been extremely patient with him as it is. This is his third season with us and he's yet to really kick on so I'm not sure what you'd expect from a manager if the application is still lacking even after the tremendous amount of patience and time you've been afforded as it is...
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He also (ETH) said nothing bad. Every single player who doesn’t start is essentially not playing because they haven’t been as good as others in training.
 
One thing I dislike about eth going public is that he has basically given right wing racist press ammunition to try and destroy sancho
 
saik said:
Aren't both of them on a little holiday? Imagine nothing will happen until next week.
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I guess the international break means everyone was off but it seems silly escalating the matter in the meantime then.
 
The Ferociousness said:
There was nothing disloyal about what Ronaldo said. They didn't even believe Ronaldo when his child was suffering, and that alone is reason enough to speak out. He turned down the chance to win trebles at Man City because of his history at the club, his loyalty and how much the club meant to him

Ronaldo spoke concern about the direction of the club around the decision-making at board level. He spoke out about the poor infrastructure and technology, which we fans complain about alll time when fans visit old trafford and still see damaged roofs and poor training facilities. He spoke out about the mentality of the youth, bravely called out the glazers, that's not what you call self-serving. Self-serving is losing 3-1 to one of our rivals and then instead of accepting responsibility on why your tactics didn't work, decide to throw a 22-year-old player who has a history of mental health under the bus to deflect from the fact we can't win away against a top 9 team in the league. And keep saying the players didn't follow rules and principles like some soulless headmaster

If a player of Ronaldo's calibre and experience says something about football and most importantly, the running of our club, then you listen. You don't ostracise him, turn him into a villain and disrespect him at one of the lowest point in his life when he was dealing with so much family hardship. Sir Alex would never ever have left Ronaldo out of the squad and left him embarrassed on the bench if he missed pre season due to family reasons. He saved us the season before last with the goals he scored. ETH treated him like some youth prospect who needed to prove himself to him. He did all this out of spite and the club suffered as a result as we ended up with Weghorst.

Remember this isn't supposed to be a soulless company, it's a football club....a family club. Ronaldo had no one around to him to support at Manchester United. He spent days eating at the canteen on his own while being treated like a piece of meat. He mentioned how uncomfortable the whole environment was while he was there. Some things are more important than football and that's when managers have to be human beings and show compassion and not be cold clinical task masters.

Just look at what is happening right now to Jadon Sancho and he's now being looked at like a villain like Ronaldo all because of ETH's ego where he thinks he's the new Sir Alex Ferguson just because he lifted the caroboa cup. They are throwing this kid to the wolves all because he stood up for himself for what he felt wasn't true. There's no way you can tell me Sancho has been training any worse than a 36 year old Johnny Evans and not more of use in a big game than Hannibal and Gore

And you can't tell me taking the decision to give Sancho 3 months out not playing football would be of any benefit to any footballer who is trying to find form. The manager is not God and the players are not subservient slaves who don't have any rights to speak when they feel wronged. I had bosses speak crap about my desire and I've stood up to him and challenge on his bullshit in serious fields of work. It's no different in football, keane had many arguments with staff in his playing days it was only when he was completely finished they let him go
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:lol: jesus what an absolute car crash of a post!
 
santeria13 said:
If someone told you during the Moyes era that we would sign a player a few years later for 80m who plays worse than Ashley Young did as winger in that time period, how depressed would you be?
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Two players, in fact :nervous:
 
Plastic Evra said:
I guess the international break means everyone was off but it seems silly escalating the matter in the meantime then.
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Yea, that is what I meant. Everyone who is not involved in the internationals will be on a holiday.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Considering how quick him/his team were to speak up after he was absent from the squad for one game it’s funny how quiet they kept when he was absent for months. If they wanted to manage the reasons given around that absence then there was nothing to stop them releasing a statement of their own.
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What, so we could be going through this back then?

As I've said, none of them should be doing this (communicating through the media). It's clear that it's come to a head, right now. Hopefully it can be resolved. People, players, managers fall out all the time but we don't always hear about it. I'm guessing due to things that have happened (some we know about and most we wont), the nature of the individuals and the current climate, this has become more of a thing than it normally would. Let's see what happens.
 
Simple case of too much too young if you ask me.

Scapegoat?

feck off, he accepted a contract worth £350k a week, and now doesn't want his performance, and even ability to make a match day squad, scrutinised? :lol: good luck lad.
 
Would've been nice to see Sancho put up this much fight on the fecking pitch at some point.
 
santeria13 said:
If someone told you during the Moyes era that we would sign a player a few years later for 80m who plays worse than Ashley Young did as winger in that time period, how depressed would you be?
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An insult to Young this, he was class compared to Sancho. He has been as crap as Falcao, who is maybe the worst player i've seen at United if you take expectations into consideration.
 
The Ferociousness said:
I never suggested the club structure being a ten hag problem. A poster mentioned Ronaldo's interview was self-serving when he had pointed out things showing the contrary. We achieved the minimum last year so lets stop with treating the carobao cup as if it means something. We made top 4 which is a feat Ole, LVG and Mourinho achieved. The squad ten hag had last season was much better than the squad ole had in 2021 and yet the results remained the same baring the caroboa cup where we had the easiest run of all clubs. Burnley, Nottingham Forrest, Charlton. If any of ten hag predecessors had that run they'd have won the cup. It was not some heroic feat which defied all odds and which suddenly warrants putting this manager to God Status
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The squad that ten Hag inherited was one in disarray following a disastrous season, a team with no heart. ten Hag got most of the team pulling in the same direction, and that is an achievement.

Also, the team we beat to the Carabao cup is Newcastle, a team that finished 4th in the league, not some Championship team.

And while we like to think that the Carabao cup is a mickey mouse cup, winning it last season was significant, because this is a team that hasn't won anything in a long time, and it was an important start. It shouldn't be where we stop winning, and we're right not to parade that around, but I won't downplay its significance.

I vividly remember Van Nistelrooy leaving, and Ruud was sold with dignity. SAF didn't promise him anything, then go back on his word thats why ruud and SAF are still on good terms. We have seen ETH say one thing and do another. We seen it with DDG Ronaldo and even Maguire

This is going to cause all sorts of problems with trust and squad dynamics long term. People can mock my post but when the chickens come home to roost mark my words what I say will be echoed across these forums
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Sir Alex Ferguson and van Nistelrooy were definitely not on good terms until the latter called the boss to apologize.
https://www.theguardian.com/football/2011/jan/21/ruud-van-nistelrooy-apologises-ferguson-united

As for nepotism, I think you need to look up the definition for yourself as it isn't confined to siblings, it can mean friends and associates. An example is Antony, who is an old associate who gets preferable treatment over players like sancho and even ronaldo when he was here. When Antony was signed, he was coming off a strike at Ajax where he refused to train until he was sold and as a result didn't have any pre season. As soon as he was signed he was placed straight in the starting line up where he scored a goal.

The argument for ronaldo not starting after returning from leave was due to him not having a preseason according to ten hag. Now we have sancho being accused of not applying himself to the required standard in training and being completely excluded from the first team line up in one of the biggest games of the season. On the flip side of the coin we have seen Antony put in a disastrous performance at home against wolves where many would rightly argue was not to the standard of a Manchester United player. He still got picked next game and the next game as he can't do anything wrong to be dropped. And now the cherry on top is that he's now dragged the clubs name through the mud,.
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"Nepotism is an even narrower form of favoritism. Coming from the Italian word for nephew, it covers favoritism to members of the family." (Source)

I did not mention Antony in my post, but IIRC, he came into the lineup v Arsenal and scored.

Now instead of questioning whether Antony deserves to maintain his place in the squad we get leaks from the club itself about Sancho's character about staff not liking him, that he's cold and introverted one minute then the next extroverted. This is what you call scapegoating and character assassination. And fans fall for it because he's not a ten hag player and think now it's his way or the highway as if other players do not deserve to be given chances or even respect
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Fans fall for it? Fans could not care less about Sancho's introversion or extraversion. What fans are annoyed by is his decision to fight the manager harder on social media than he ever has for our badge, because his performances have not been up to par over four different managers at United, and that his former managers (Pep, Favre, and Southgate) have all had issues with his attitude on/off the pitch. Are those hit pieces? Perhaps, but they are documented incidents that show a precedence of Sancho's behaviour.

The only way Sancho wins in this is to perform so well that ten Hag cannot afford to drop him. If that happens to be the case, I'd say ten Hag succeeded in getting a response out of him with this management move, wouldn't you?
 
Antony may be lackluster in attack but the defensive work he does shits all over Sancho. 10 times the effort. If Sancho came close to that level then there would be an argument to replace him.
 
Andersonson said:
An insult to Young this, he was class compared to Sancho. He has been as crap as Falcao, who is maybe the worst player i've seen at United if you take expectations into consideration.
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Young was levels above Sancho. I will take winger Young rather than current Sancho. Young also got converted as fullback when his legs were gone which I dont see Sancho ever going to be unless he plays in Sunday League. Young has a great career
 
I was hoping (albeit skeptically) Sancho would come good this season but he's given the manager little choice now. Never really looked hungry enough to make it. Off to the reserves until an offer comes in.

Hope this also means a little more time for Pellistri.
 
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