Erik ten Hag vs Sancho | Sancho back in full training

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I don't see a future for either at this club. Both have been huge disappointments.

Sancho is probably the transfer I've been most excited about in years, I genuinely thought he would transform our RW or LW and give us a world class option for 10 years. ETH has managed him horrendously but Sancho himself has been an arrogant, lazy prat.
 
sepulturite said:
The only weird thing here is your constant defence of him. I'm not even that big a ETH fan, but he was spot on with Sancho, his attitude stunk the place out and clearly had been going on for a while. Apologising really isn't a big deal.
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They both fecked up and reacted poorly, stop caping for the manager.....
 
afrocentricity said:
They both fecked up and reacted poorly, stop caping for the manager.....
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No Sancho fecked up, what ETH was asking for was nothing, a simple apology. Loads of managers have done that in the past and the vast majority of the players have obliged and everyone moved on. This is on Sancho, plain and simple.
 
Eriku said:
EtH is in a tough situation right now, and sounds delusional, sure.

Doesn’t change the fact that he gave Sancho special treatment in the hopes of him getting his head straight, and he blew up at a innocuous comment and displayed a huge lack of professionalism, and a lack of respect to the club. feck ten Hag, this isn’t him vs Sancho for me. Sancho has shown in a myriad of ways that he’s not willing to do what’s expected of a United player. Hell, any player of any team in a top division team on massive wages.
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Why he displayed a lack of professionalism though? It is not like he refused to play or train, just that he disagreed with the manager. He even trained when he was ordered to train by himself.

In any other club, this wouldn’t make the news. But considering that the manager has God status in this club, we have to burn Sancho for being an unbeliever.
 
Revan said:
Why he displayed a lack of professionalism though? It is not like he refused to play or train, just that he disagreed with the manager. He even trained when he was ordered to train by himself.

In any other club, this wouldn’t make the news. But considering that the manager has God status in this club, we have to burn Sancho for being an unbeliever.
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Why? He said Ten Hag’s claims were a lie and a fig leaf for making him a scape goat. And he would rather dig in and be sidelined for months rather than show some humility.

In what world is it considered professional to call out your boss like that online, over what are fairly benign reasons given for having selected others.

This is neverminding his blatant lack of effort on the pitch, and several claims in several clubs over Sancho failing to live up to basic standards.

I really don’t understand why this is so hard to grasp for some people.
 
Eriku said:
Why? He said Ten Hag’s claims were a lie and a fig leaf for making him a scape goat. And he would rather dig in and be sidelined for months rather than show some humility.

In what world is it considered professional to call out your boss like that online, over what are fairly benign reasons given for having selected others.

This is neverminding his blatant lack of effort on the pitch, and several claims in several clubs over Sancho failing to live up to basic standards.

I really don’t understand why this is so hard to grasp for some people.
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In what world is considered professional for your boss to chat shit about you in public? That’s the thing, EtH essentially said that Sancho is not training well and is lacking in training, Sancho said that is not true, he is training as well as he can.

That should have been quickly settled that day if we had some grown up at the club but unfortunately the club is/was run from idiots.

Just as a quick hypocrisy test, if Ratcliffe or Ashworth et al said ‘you know what, we are losing so much cause we have been tactically naive and EtH’s coaching is a bit awful’ and EtH says ‘nah, I am just being scapegoat and I am doing good coaching’ would you also say that EtH is being unprofessional and we must bin him immediately. Because it is pretty much the same situation.
 
Revan said:
In what world is considered professional for your boss to chat shit about you in public? That’s the thing, EtH essentially said that Sancho is not training well and is lacking in training, Sancho said that is not true, he is training as well as he can. He’s implying his bosses are lying, ffs, when he says their statements are a cover for scapegoating.

That should have been quickly settled that day if we had some grown up at the club but unfortunately the club is/was run from idiots.

Just as a quick hypocrisy test, if Ratcliffe or Ashworth et al said ‘you know what, we are losing so much cause we have been tactically naive and EtH’s coaching is a bit awful’ and EtH says ‘nah, I am just being scapegoat and I am doing good coaching’ would you also say that EtH is being unprofessional and we must bin him immediately.Because it is pretty much the same situation.
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Yes. If EtH threw language like that around about his higher ups then it would be no surprise if he was made to walk it back in public, or for them to say that his position is untenable.

I’m astounded that you think that would be an acceptable state of affairs. It undermines the people who are in charge, which is terrible for an organization trying to reach goals together.

They might deserve the critique, but it would make no sense for them to let that fly.

Chat shit :lol: Others trained better, so they get picked over Sancho. He could probably have handled it better, but clearly coddling Sancho wasn’t working either. At any rate Sancho overreacted.
 
Revan said:
In what world is considered professional for your boss to chat shit about you in public? That’s the thing, EtH essentially said that Sancho is not training well and is lacking in training, Sancho said that is not true, he is training as well as he can.

That should have been quickly settled that day if we had some grown up at the club but unfortunately the club is/was run from idiots.
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Sancho is a player known for chronic unprofessionalism and accused the manager of scapegoating. Sancho used the exact word when he was called out at Dortmund.

By the way, Ten Hag gave a fairly mild jibe to Sancho after he tried giving an arm round him, letting him have 3 months to get his head space straight.

Sancho is essentially a mug, his actions after the incident proved this too, when he ran to NYC parties during internationals whilst Pellistri was training on his own to get a head start.
 
Good for Sancho
If we performs well we can fetch a pretty sum for him
I honestly don’t think we should bring him back
He’s not suited to the pace of PL.
 
DSG said:
Thanks.

Is it difficult to imagine Ten Hag getting sacked given his results? Since The problem was between Ten Hag and Sancho and Ten Hag is out of the picture, could Sancho come back into the squad? If he did and put up a 10 goal /10 assists season under a new manager, wouldn’t that be a good thing?
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The problem is between the majority of the fans and Sancho
 
Suv666 said:
Good for Sancho
If we performs well we can fetch a pretty sum for him
I honestly don’t think we should bring him back
He’s not suited to the pace of PL.
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Spot on!
Regardless of his arguments with ETH, I thought Sancho is unsuited to the PL.

Yes, he has certain skills that play well in CL and in the German league, but I reckon he had only three games for us where the majority of his play just about 'past muster'. PL is faster and requires more energy and players who can fill more than one role are at a premium, Sancho's not one of them.

I don't think we will get anything like what we paid and would be very surprised if he did come back to the PL. However who knows when Sir Jims 'big guns' start firing....?
 
Dortmund will try to get him on loan again, and we should not allow this to happen. He's either sold or brought back into the squad. A new manager would probably like to have a look at him first, but after what we paid for him Dortmund can't keep getting him for basically free.
 
Someone said:
Dortmund will try to get him on loan again, and we should not allow this to happen. He's either sold or brought back into the squad. A new manager would probably like to have a look at him first, but after what we paid for him Dortmund can't keep getting him for basically free.
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They can have him on loan with an obligation at 40m and cover his wages, no problem. If they expect to get him on loan on the same terms as before, they're dumber than I thought.
 
We will see how well the Ineos management deal with this situation.

Even if ETH leaves I don’t think there is anyway back for Sancho at Utd.
 
GoldanoGraham said:
We will see how well the Ineos management deal with this situation.

Even if ETH leaves I don’t think there is anyway back for Sancho at Utd.
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I too hope for Sancho not to be brought back, I'll understand if the club management say they can't find a club that will offer a fair fee for Sancho and they will have to keep him due to lack of suiters, but hopefully they find a solution to get rid of him.

this isn't EtH vs Sancho for me, Sancho is simply and expensive flop with attitude issues.
 
VP89 said:
He actually has. You should probably read up more on Sanchos antics predating Ten Hag's arrival.

Ten Hag's open criticism of Sancho came after he gave the guy a 3 month break to get his head space right and protected him and his potential impact for us whilst doing so. It's not even like he didn't try the arm round the shoulder before giving the stick.
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From what I have read the managers before ten Hag have said he didn't cause any problems, and was just late at times.

Ten hag didn't mention that, that wasn't the reason given btw.
 
JJ12 said:
His professionalism was in question at City, Dortmund first go around and United. It's absolutely proven.

Don't want him back, hope he continues playing well so we can sell at a decent fee.
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His manager at Dortmund said the opposite.

And only during ten hag at united, I've not heard anything from city. Though there is a quote saying City wanted him to stay but he wanted to leave.
 
Hammondo said:
His manager at Dortmund said the opposite.

And only during ten hag at united, I've not heard anything from city. Though there is a quote saying City wanted him to stay but he wanted to leave.
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Research it more. Lateness was one, breaking lockdown rules another and there may have been a third. Sancho then came out and dortmund and said he's been made a scapegoat (sound familiar?)

He also wasn't favoured by the national team whatsoever. Also chronic lateness isn't something to brush under the carpet. It's part of putting effort into training by a minimum standard, something he's always not bothered with.
 
Eriku said:
Why? He said Ten Hag’s claims were a lie and a fig leaf for making him a scape goat. And he would rather dig in and be sidelined for months rather than show some humility.

In what world is it considered professional to call out your boss like that online, over what are fairly benign reasons given for having selected others.

This is neverminding his blatant lack of effort on the pitch, and several claims in several clubs over Sancho failing to live up to basic standards.

I really don’t understand why this is so hard to grasp for some people.
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He didn't claim they were a lie, he claimed they were wrong.

He showed he has principles, he from his point of view doesn't believe he has anything to apologise for, and I can understand that. Ten Hag started the fallout, not Sancho, Sancho from his pov just defended himself which he has a right to do.
 
Hammondo said:
He didn't claim they were a lie, he claimed they were wrong.

He showed he has principles, he from his point of view doesn't believe he has anything to apologise for, and I can understand that. Ten Hag started the fallout, not Sancho, Sancho from his pov just defended himself which he has a right to do.
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Eh? He said the comments aren't true and he was made a scapegoat (the man was so lazy he literally recycled his defence from Dortmund and didn't bother switching up the words). He essentially said the bosses that evaluate him were lying. For the 2nd time in his career across different clubs.

Then he fecked off to New York to party whilst actual professionals like Pellistri came in to train when it was international break.
 
VP89 said:
Research it more. Lateness was one, breaking lockdown rules another and there may have been a third. Sancho then came out and dortmund and said he's been made a scapegoat (sound familiar?)

He also wasn't favoured by the national team whatsoever. Also chronic lateness isn't something to brush under the carpet. It's part of putting effort into training by a minimum standard, something he's always not bothered with.
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I'm aware he is late and I'm not saying it's not important, but also let's not make him out to be the devil either. Dortmund wanted him back and they have been positive about him.
 
VP89 said:
Research it more. Lateness was one, breaking lockdown rules another and there may have been a third. Sancho then came out and dortmund and said he's been made a scapegoat (sound familiar?)

He also wasn't favoured by the national team whatsoever. Also chronic lateness isn't something to brush under the carpet. It's part of putting effort into training by a minimum standard, something he's always not bothered with.
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Yes, these things happened. He was a young player and not always at his best behaviour, but the interesting difference is there everybody was willing to get on with it - Sancho usually responded by performing well after such incidents and the manager also didn't see the need to make this all a big thing. It's definitely not the best of Sancho's traits, but it's still interesting to see how different these similar situations then evolved.

I can't prove it but I just have a feeling that Terzic and Sancho might have a kind of "big/little brother" relationship and that this helped to resolve these situations when they occured.
 
VP89 said:
Eh? He said the comments aren't true and he was made a scapegoat (the man was so lazy he literally recycled his defence from Dortmund and didn't bother switching up the words). He essentially said the bosses that evaluate him were lying. For the 2nd time in his career across different clubs.
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That's not how the English language works, wrong != Lying.
 
Hammondo said:
I'm aware he is late and I'm not saying it's not important, but also let's not make him out to be the devil either. Dortmund wanted him back and they have been positive about him.
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Hes a chronic unprofessional gobshite and that's not an unfair statement given his antics.

Dortmund wanted him back because his talent can carry them in the Bundasliga. In the Premier League he'd get found out, and did.
 
VP89 said:
Hes a chronic unprofessional gobshite and that's not an unfair statement given his antics.

Dortmund wanted him back because his talent can carry them in the Bundasliga. In the Premier League he'd get found out, and did.
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If you say so. Looking at the standards at United, he's been far from proven wrong.
 
Hammondo said:
If you say so. Looking at the standards at United, he's been far from proven wrong.
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It's not if I say so it's a fact.

Hes proven nothing wrong. The standards at our club is to train properly and turn up on time. He didn't do that here. He also didn't perform here, objectively speaking. The season we finished 3rd and had a decent year he wasn't even among the standout players.

In fact his Bundasliga return isn't even that impressive and it's a far easier league. Have you watched his games there? Or did you just focus on one or two CL nights?
 
VP89 said:
It's not if I say so it's a fact.

Hes proven nothing wrong. The standards at our club is to train properly and turn up on time. He didn't do that here. He also didn't perform here, objectively speaking. The season we finished 3rd and had a decent year he wasn't even among the standout players.

In fact his Bundasliga return isn't even that impressive and it's a far easier league. Have you watched his games there? Or did you just focus on one or two CL nights?
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He's proven is wrong by the effort and performances of our own team. I'm no big Sancho fan, but it's clear he's above most of the attacking standard we have shown at United this season. If he had not fallen out with Ten Hag there is no doubt he would be consistently playing here, though not without his criticisms.
 
Hammondo said:
He's proven is wrong by the effort and performances of our own team. I'm no big Sancho fan, but it's clear he's above most of the attacking standard we have shown at United this season. If he had not fallen out with Ten Hag there is no doubt he would be consistently playing here, though not without his criticisms.
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Again he's proven nothing wrong. His stats in the Bundasliga are Antony level.

Had he stayed here he'd send a message to the squad that it's fine to turn up late, and it was a terrible signal to the likes of Garnacho or Mainoo on what the standards should be at the club.

It's not if he didn't turn out with ten hag, it's if he bothered to train properly. That's on him. Ten hag didn't make him a villain randomly, the man gave him a huge carrot before resorting to the stick and being fed up.
 
Hammondo said:
He's proven is wrong by the effort and performances of our own team. I'm no big Sancho fan, but it's clear he's above most of the attacking standard we have shown at United this season. If he had not fallen out with Ten Hag there is no doubt he would be consistently playing here, though not without his criticisms.
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Eh in theory though isn't it? He never really showed it here. I've no doubt he'd have got game time, and been better than say Antony, but that's really not saying much at all.

I still think he's got a chance for redemption under a new manager, rightly or wrongly.
 
VP89 said:
Again he's proven nothing wrong. His stats in the Bundasliga are Antony level.

Had he stayed here he'd send a message to the squad that it's fine to turn up late, and it was a terrible signal to the likes of Garnacho or Mainoo on what the standards should be at the club.
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Clearly you are only judging him by his stats and have not watched him, he would walk into our team this season. Our attacking play has been amazingly poor.
 
Hammondo said:
Clearly you are only judging him by his stats and have not watched him, he would walk into our team this season. Our attacking play has been amazingly poor.
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Have you watched him in the Bundasliga? And do you agree that it's extremely easy to look there compared to here?

Il say it again, he's been hot and cold there and it's not the same quality week in week out as the PL. He also didn't bother making any effort in training. That's on him. He was an unprofessional gobshite and proved no one wrong.

If he wen to la liga or another Prem team and lit up with consistency then I'd be more inclined to agree. But he didn't. Moreover there won't be any suitors for him come the summer. So yeah, he's not that good is he.
 
mikeyt said:
I don't see a future for either at this club. Both have been huge disappointments.

Sancho is probably the transfer I've been most excited about in years, I genuinely thought he would transform our RW or LW and give us a world class option for 10 years. ETH has managed him horrendously but Sancho himself has been an arrogant, lazy prat.
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Has he though? He was a starter when he came in and he gave him a lot of games in succession off his preferred LW, he then gave him time off and even allows him to essentially take a sabbatical, then tried to reintegrate him back into the team but we tried to move him on that summer, the main links were Sancho to Spurs as leverage for Kane but we were open to offers for him (and I suspect he was open to leaving if someone would pay his salary, unlikely as that seems). There was even a concerted effort to play him as a false 9 in pre season in a bid to try and find a way for him to work but it was clearly not a long term thing.

It's only this season where things turned really sour but then I kind of get it, the coach wanted to club to sell him, the player clearly struggled last year mentally and physically and so your option is either ETH changes his standards for the team and makes an exception for a player who hasn't been performing purely because he once was good in another league or he freezes him out. People acting like you just need to 'unlock' him and he'll turn into Maradona.

Our fan base is so blinded by wanting ETH out, that a good CL game has created this amount of goldfish posters, who have forgotten literally watching him play for us. He's creeping up on 100 apps for the club!
 
VP89 said:
Have you watched him in the Bundasliga? And do you agree that it's extremely easy to look there compared to here?

Il say it again, he's been hot and cold there and it's not the same quality week in week out as the PL. He also didn't bother making any effort in training. That's on him. He was an unprofessional gobshite and proved no one wrong.

If he wen to la liga or another Prem team and lit up with consistency then I'd be more inclined to agree. But he didn't. Moreover there won't be any suitors for him come the summer. So yeah, he's not that good is he.
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I have, it can be. It's not like everything is easy over there but you are challenged less.

This is why you need to include cl performances, to get a better balance. He's playing for a club who are better than us, playing in a bigger competition.

I'm no sanches fan but you are clearly being very bias, that's why so many have picked up on his better performances. This "gobshite" this is currently a very United thing.

Also we don't know what happened in training, we know 2 people disagree about it.
 
Hammondo said:
That's not how the English language works, wrong != Lying.
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That kind of technicality might work in a court room, but the implication is clear. You don’t make a scapegoat with honest intentions.

People trying to handwave Sancho’s actions are reaching.
 
Hammondo said:
I have, it can be. It's not like everything is easy over there but you are challenged less.

This is why you need to include cl performances, to get a better balance. He's playing for a club who are better than us, playing in a bigger competition.

I'm no sanches fan but you are clearly being very bias, that's why so many have picked up on his better performances. This "gobshite" this is currently a very United thing.

Also we don't know what happened in training, we know 2 people disagree about it.
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And you've chosen to disregard other managers who have had issues with him.
 
tomaldinho1 said:
Has he though? He was a starter when he came in and he gave him a lot of games in succession off his preferred LW, he then gave him time off and even allows him to essentially take a sabbatical, then tried to reintegrate him back into the team but we tried to move him on that summer, the main links were Sancho to Spurs as leverage for Kane but we were open to offers for him (and I suspect he was open to leaving if someone would pay his salary, unlikely as that seems). There was even a concerted effort to play him as a false 9 in pre season in a bid to try and find a way for him to work but it was clearly not a long term thing.

It's only this season where things turned really sour but then I kind of get it, the coach wanted to club to sell him, the player clearly struggled last year mentally and physically and so your option is either ETH changes his standards for the team and makes an exception for a player who hasn't been performing purely because he once was good in another league or he freezes him out. People acting like you just need to 'unlock' him and he'll turn into Maradona.

Our fan base is so blinded by wanting ETH out, that a good CL game has created this amount of goldfish posters, who have forgotten literally watching him play for us. He's creeping up on 100 apps for the club!
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I couldn't care less if we keep Sancho, but it's clear it's a very United bias the way some react to him. Could he do better under a different manager? Probably but I've no idea by how much. Could a replacement be worse? Yep. So it's kinda 50/50 to me.

I think the main problems I have with it all is that the Sancho tweet was fine, just defending himself, which any reasonable person would expect if someone criticises someone publicly. And that our standards from Ten Hag have been so low, he's ignored and allowed such poor effort and quality that it's hard to take what he has said seriously.
 
Hopefully things like the Sancho debacle don't happen in future under Ineos. If a player needs disciplined, then the club should discipline them. No issuing of ultimatums that escalate the situation and result in egos taking over and people being too proud to back down. And an £80m asset being banned from the team and then loaned out.
 
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