Erik ten Hag vs Sancho | Sancho back in full training

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sebsheep said:
Cool. How do we go about him saying the manager was scapegoating him then? Considering y'know, that's obviously not what ETH did...
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As if that was such an unforgivable offense. Ten Hag's ego is to blame for this situation as much as Sancho's.


Eriku said:
Also, knowing what’s been said about his professionalism at other clubs makes it even more ludicrous to back Sancho on this.
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The way people talk about this you might think he conducted himself like Maradona at Napoli, going partying for three days after each match and only training twice a week. When in reality, he was late a couple of times in his teenage years and that's it.
 
One of the reasons I want Ten hag sacked asap. He doesn't know who our better players are. Martial and Sancho should be starting week in, week out. Yet he won't play Martial and has fallen out with sancho. Those two are our best attackers and the manager just doesn't see something so obvious.
 
sebsheep said:
Cool. How do we go about him saying the manager was scapegoating him then? Considering y'know, that's obviously not what ETH did...
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I guess it depends on what he believes he's been scapegoated for? I personally dont think EtH mentions it if we won. Also not sure why mention a player who hasnt contributed to us losing thats not in the ground? Once he's done that, even if he wants Sancho gone, automatically creates further drama in the media at a time the club didnt need it and writes off 60% of Sancho’s sell on value.....
 
frostbite said:
This is another reason the club should sack ETH asap.

Sancho will be back, and he will have something to prove, perhaps he will try harder than he did in the past. And Sancho certainly has more talent than Antony.
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Agreed, wasting an asset worth many millions and £11 million a year salary just to prove a point, while the attack is the least creative in the league, is unforgivable.
 
KeanoMagicHat said:
Agreed, wasting an asset worth many millions and £11 million a year salary just to prove a point, while the attack is the least creative in the league, is unforgivable.
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Sancho has been useless so it's not like it's been some kind of huge blow. Would he even make it off the bench if this hadn't happened?
 
A well run club will have this sorted January 1st.

United have had months to resolve this issue, but no doubt they will all hide behind the 25% investment as the reason for doing feck all as per usual.
 
Zehner said:
As if that was such an unforgivable offense. Ten Hag's ego is to blame for this situation as much as Sancho's.




The way people talk about this you might think he conducted himself like Maradona at Napoli, going partying for three days after each match and only training twice a week. When in reality, he was late a couple of times in his teenage years and that's it.
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Laughable comparison. Totally different day and age with entirely different demands placed on players, and we’re also talking about a player who was delivering the goods.

Litch said:
No idea and depite the laughing face, you dont know either. If its 'subjective' rather than fact, that leaves it further open to criticism or challenge.

I think Sancho will have been advised about the implications of his actions, which makes me believe its not ego as the stakes are high. Also some of the developments with other players suggest he might not be wrong.

Im not one to subcribe whats happened at one club automatically means its the same here and the Varane alleged 'fall out' conversely offers a different view.

When people use language like 'back down' just feeds it. Dressing rooms are no different than many workplaces and if you act against an employee in a certain way, you best ensure that you are consistent. Anyone that thinks Sancho is the only one that turns up late or has shit training sessions, clearly is misinformed.

Im pretty sure if we won at Arsenal, EtH isnt talking about a player that wasnt even in the ground...it was an emotional response that triggered an emotional one back.....two things can be right but equally wrong.
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Regardless of what’s really happened behind the scenes, I doubt Sancho’s advisors have told him that his best course of action was to blow up on instagram over a fairly innocuous comment, and then put his career on hold and miss out on training and matches for months on end.

If they did then his advisors are well-suited to his unprofessional arse.
 
redmanc said:
Because he was contributing loads before he got called out for being useless?
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He played preseason and reasonably well in false 9 so it’s clear Ten Hag planned for him to play and then froze him out. He has more than twice as many league goals as Antony, including goals against Liverpool, City and Spurs. Not saying he’s been great or anything, far from it, but he’s still better than what’s been picked to play in attack this season.
 
Zehner said:
As if that was such an unforgivable offense. Ten Hag's ego is to blame for this situation as much as Sancho's.

The way people talk about this you might think he conducted himself like Maradona at Napoli, going partying for three days after each match and only training twice a week. When in reality, he was late a couple of times in his teenage years and that's it.
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Why are you still making things up?

It’s not a single offense, it’s not one event that has led to this, it’s a culmination of Sancho’s lack of professionalism over an extended period of time that has led to this.

Ten Hag has defended him time and time again, he was happy to send him away under a strict training regime in order for him to regain full fitness, never had a go at him in public even though he had every reason in the world to tear him a new one.

When protecting a player in publuc time and time again doesn’t work, when said player still turns up late, when his performances are nowhere near the required level and he’s one of the most expensive signings and best paid players in the league, you try a different approach in the hope that the player gets his shit together.

He didn’t even hang him out to dry, it was hardly much of an attack on Sancho. Rashford got dumped for being late to a team meeting prior to a match. Garnacho was punished in a pre-season for being late, he’s been critized in public several times about needing to mature and become more professional. They got on with it..Every once in a while a player will get called out, most players will rarely think it’s nice or deserved, but few of them are thick enough to challenge the manager in public afterwards. Sancho decided it was a good idea to go public with a claim that the manager was lying, that he was being scapegoated, the level of stupidity is off the charts really.
 
KeanoMagicHat said:
He played preseason and reasonably well in false 9 so it’s clear Ten Hag planned for him to play and then froze him out. He has more than twice as many league goals as Antony, including goals against Liverpool, City and Spurs. Not saying he’s been great or anything, far from it, but he’s still better than what’s been picked to play in attack this season.
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Yeah, he just casually froze him out for no reason whatsoever. It should be fairly obvious to everyone that everyones preference, including Ten Hag, would be that Sancho never turned this into a public feud and that he was available for the team and performing well. Not only is it a shit situation, but it’s also a fecking expensive situation given the transfer fee
 
NotChatGPT said:
Why are you still making things up?

It’s not a single offense, it’s not one event that has led to this, it’s a culmination of Sancho’s lack of professionalism over an extended period of time that has led to this.

Ten Hag has defended him time and time again, he was happy to send him away under a strict training regime in order for him to regain full fitness, never had a go at him in public even though he had every reason in the world to tear him a new one.

When protecting a player in publuc time and time again doesn’t work, when said player still turns up late, when his performances are nowhere near the required level and he’s one of the most expensive signings and best paid players in the league, you try a different approach in the hope that the player gets his shit together.

He didn’t even hang him out to dry, it was hardly much of an attack on Sancho. Rashford got dumped for being late to a team meeting prior to a match. Garnacho was punished in a pre-season for being late, he’s been critized in public several times about needing to mature and become more professional. They got on with it..Every once in a while a player will get called out, most players will rarely think it’s nice or deserved, but few of them are thick enough to challenge the manager in public afterwards. Sancho decided it was a good idea to go public with a claim that the manager was lying, that he was being scapegoated, the level of stupidity is off the charts really.
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Actually from the club point of view, the correct decision would be fine him for being late, and then play him afterwards, but not frozen him out totally. At this point its become personal issue/farce between the player and the manager. One had to go in order for the other to stay/play.
 
NotChatGPT said:
Yeah, he just casually froze him out for no reason whatsoever. It should be fairly obvious to everyone that everyones preference, including Ten Hag, would be that Sancho never turned this into a public feud and that he was available for the team and performing well. Not only is it a shit situation, but it’s also a fecking expensive situation given the transfer fee
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He didn’t freeze him out for no reason. He omitted him from the match day squad, made a fairly innocuous comment on why he made that choice, and Sancho lost his shit and blew up and posted a really unprofessional post on instagram.
 
NotChatGPT said:
Yeah, he just casually froze him out for no reason whatsoever. It should be fairly obvious to everyone that everyones preference, including Ten Hag, would be that Sancho never turned this into a public feud and that he was available for the team and performing well. Not only is it a shit situation, but it’s also a fecking expensive situation given the transfer fee
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There is nothing stopping Ten Hag from organising a meeting with him to get him back on board, might even get an apology if he communicated with him, he’s top earner in the club it’s an incredible waste to make no effort to reach him halfway, when we have arguable the worst attack in the league too, it’s an even bigger waste. That’s the job of manager, to use your resources to the best of your ability. Not using your resources properly is on you as a manager. Is it a coincidence that Rashford’s play changed after the row too? Sorting out this issue could save things for Ten Hag. His stubbornness may cost him.
 
RedRonaldo said:
Actually from the club point of view, the correct decision would be fine him for being late, and then play him afterwards, but not frozen him out totally. At this point its become personal issue/farce between the player and the manager. One had to go in order for the other to stay/play.
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Jesus christ. Managers drop players for various reasons, every once in a while they’re also told off in public. It’s not a problem for the vast majority, and those who do have a problem with it have enough brancells to make it nown in private conversations with the manager. Sancho has been unprofessional for large parts of his adult career, considering he’s one of the most expensive signings ever, one of the highest paid players in the Premier League, it’s completely unacceptable and Ten Hags comments and actions were mild. Just the fact that we had to send him off to a fecking training camp, under a strict regime, is completely baffling.
 
Zehner said:
As if that was such an unforgivable offense. Ten Hag's ego is to blame for this situation as much as Sancho's.
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I think you're missing the point, the poster is acting like Sancho's behaviour is okay in that circumstance but ETH's isn't. Complete double standards.
 
KeanoMagicHat said:
There is nothing stopping Ten Hag from organising a meeting with him to get him back on board, might even get an apology if he communicated with him, he’s top earner in the club it’s an incredible waste to make no effort to reach him halfway, when we have arguable the worst attack in the league too, it’s an even bigger waste. That’s the job of manager, to use your resources to the best of your ability. Not using your resources properly is on you as a manager. Is it a coincidence that Rashford’s play changed after the row too? Sorting out this issue could save things for Ten Hag. His stubbornness may cost him.
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What are you on about, there’s been plenty of meetings between Sancho and Ten Hag in order to sort this out. The problem is that Sancho refuses to make a public apology and everyone knows the manager and the club can’t step away from that.
 
NotChatGPT said:
Jesus christ. Managers drop players for various reasons, every once in a while they’re also told off in public. It’s not a problem for the vast majority, and those who do have a problem with it have enough brancells to make it nown in private conversations with the manager. Sancho has been unprofessional for large parts of his adult career, considering he’s one of the most expensive signings ever, one of the highest paid players in the Premier League, it’s completely unacceptable and Ten Hags comments and actions were mild. Just the fact that we had to send him off to a fecking training camp, under a strict regime, is completely baffling.
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Our manager drops Sancho for Antony. Jesus Christ.
 
frostbite said:
This manager has failed and he will be sacked. The only question is if he will be sacked soon, or we will wait another couple of months. I think the best for everyone is to sack him soon.
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That's fine, but wanting him to get sacked to get Sancho back into the team is weird. He's not even the 1st manager who Sanco has struggled for game time with here and his performances have been very underwhelming.
 
Eriku said:
He didn’t freeze him out for no reason. He omitted him from the match day squad, made a fairly innocuous comment on why he made that choice, and Sancho lost his shit and blew up and posted a really unprofessional post on instagram.
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I was being sarcastic.

I can’t for the life of me understand why someone wants someone as unprofessional as Sancho to be included back into the squad without him taking full responsibility for his own actions and making drastic changes to his lifestyle.
 
Eriku said:
Laughable comparison. Totally different day and age with entirely different demands placed on players, and we’re also talking about a player who was delivering the goods.



Regardless of what’s really happened behind the scenes, I doubt Sancho’s advisors have told him that his best course of action was to blow up on instagram over a fairly innocuous comment, and then put his career on hold and miss out on training and matches for months on end.

If they did then his advisors are well-suited to his unprofessional arse.
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......probably not but my point was, dont think thats solely about ego either. It could be about principles even though some on here dont think he has any!!!
Like most of us, somethings we are prepared to live with, whilst others wouldnt, and somethings we won't tolerate under any circumstances.

It seems a risk he is willing to take because even when things are completely shit between player and manager, its rare managers or players ever comment about so explicitly.

Like said, especially as I dont think EtH mentions it if we won. I think it was an emotional response that EtH probably wished he'd not made. Also sense then, hes commented differently since when asked similar questions.

This kind of thing creates discourse in dressing rooms, lose trust in the manager, creates divides...even if the manager is right.

Also by doing so slashed 60% off his value and basically told everyone why?
 
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Litch said:
I guess it depends on what he believes he's been scapegoated for? I personally dont think EtH mentions it if we won. Also not sure why mention a player who hasnt contributed to us losing thats not in the ground? Once he's done that, even if he wants Sancho gone, automatically creates further drama in the media at a time the club didnt need it and writes off 60% of Sancho’s sell on value.....
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If he gets ask the same question I think he says the same thing, win or lose.
He didn't even say anything controversial.
 
Sancho is a player that has failed under three different managers. He has a lot of talent, but its time to cut ties.

He was catered to and trusted last season. Ten Hag protected him and gave him time off when he was struggling. Despite all that there was barely an improvement in performance and he couldn't be arsed to show up for training on time.
 
Manc Shaman said:
One of the reasons I want Ten hag sacked asap. He doesn't know who our better players are. Martial and Sancho should be starting week in, week out. Yet he won't play Martial and has fallen out with sancho. Those two are our best attackers and the manager just doesn't see something so obvious.
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Sancho hasn't been close to being one of our best 2 attackers at any point during his time here, and it's not like we have an amazing attack...
 
sebsheep said:
If he gets ask the same question I think he says the same thing, win or lose.
He didn't even say anything controversial.
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Hes already said things differently, didnt he recently say, we keep those things in the club?

If its not controversial, I dont know what is tbh.
 
Litch said:
I guess it depends on what he believes he's been scapegoated for? I personally dont think EtH mentions it if we won. Also not sure why mention a player who hasnt contributed to us losing thats not in the ground? Once he's done that, even if he wants Sancho gone, automatically creates further drama in the media at a time the club didnt need it and writes off 60% of Sancho’s sell on value.....
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He was asked about Sancho by one of the journalists. It's not like ETH just sat down and said out of nowhere that he hadn't been training well.
 
Litch said:
If its not controversial, I dont know what is tbh.
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What is so controversial about saying somebody didn't get selected because they didn't train well that week? The way you and others talk about it is as if it was some Mourinho-style attack on a player, when in reality it was a fairly mild comment that any player with even close to the right kind of professional attitude would respond to by pulling their socks up and proving him wrong the next week.
 
MadDogg said:
He was asked about Sancho by one of the journalists. It's not like ETH just sat down and said out of nowhere that he hadn't been training well.
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....but like said, he has already answered differently when asked before it and since it. This is the same manager that suggested DDG was staying, only to bin him. Have you seen some of his responses to the Varane decisions?
 
We need to forget him. He's done here. Probably done as a footballer like Lingard.
 
MadDogg said:
What is so controversial about saying somebody didn't get selected because they didn't train well that week? The way you and others talk about it is as if it was some Mourinho-style attack on a player, when in reality it was a fairly mild comment that any player with even close to the right kind of professional attitude would respond to by pulling their socks up and proving him wrong the next week.
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Its controversial cause the only manager that generally has done it, is one of the most controversial managers of the prem era.

Any other examples you can think off made against 80m, 300K players chased for 2 seasons...especially has your comments just slashed 60% of any potential fee? To add insult to injury, told everyone the reason why?
 
MadDogg said:
He was asked about Sancho by one of the journalists. It's not like ETH just sat down and said out of nowhere that he hadn't been training well.
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I always had it in my head that it was another way of trying to get the penny to drop for Sancho and kick him on to be what we know he could be.

What he didn’t bank on was the response being so unprofessional that it destroyed the relationship beyond repair seemingly.
 
NotChatGPT said:
I was being sarcastic.

I can’t for the life of me understand why someone wants someone as unprofessional as Sancho to be included back into the squad without him taking full responsibility for his own actions and making drastic changes to his lifestyle.
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Ah. Sorry, you see some wild takes so it’s hard to tell at times :lol:

Litch said:
......probably not but my point was, dont think thats solely about ego either. It could be about principles even though some on here dont think he has any!!!
Like most of us, somethings we are prepared to live with, whilst others wouldnt, and somethings we won't tolerate under any circumstances.

It seems a risk he is willing to take because even when things are completely shit between player and manager, its rare managers or players ever comment about so explicitly.

Like said, especially as I dont think EtH mentions it if we won. I think it was an emotional response that EtH probably wished he'd not made. Also sense then, hes commented differently since when asked similar questions.

This kind of thing creates discourse in dressing rooms, lose trust in the manager, creates divides...even if the manager is right.

Also by doing so slashed 60% off his value and basically told everyone why?
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I guess it could be principle, but it’s a weird hill to sacrifice the momentum of your career on.

Anyway, clearly we have very different views on this. Cheers for the civilized rebuttals, I think I’ll leave it there.
 
Eriku said:
Ah. Sorry, you see some wild takes so it’s hard to tell at times :lol:
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Yeah, know what you mean. I just can’t wrap my head around fans wanting him to return without properly owning up his own mistakes hell bent on showing everyone how good he actually is. This isn’t just a manager vs player situation, it’s very much about the sort of characters we want at the club. This isn’t just Sancho burning bridges at Manchester United, but it’s also having a rather detrimental effect on his career opportunities, it’s not as if top clubs are lining up to sign him and even Southgate got tired of his lack of professionalism. It’s bonkers that he’s willing to cause this amount of damage to his own career over something so insanely small and innocent. I had very high hopes for Sancho, i thought the arrival of Hojlund would do wonders for him, as such i am extremely disappointed by the lack of character he’s shown. It was an innocent comment by Ten Hag, and considering Sancho’s performances, which have overall been very poor, he should have enough self awareness to admit as much and make an actual attempt at proving everyone wrong. Instead, he’s sticking to his guns and flying off to parties around the world living the glam life on social media.

I just don’t think he has the required drive, the mental attributes, to consistently perform and improve. Most players don’t after reaching a certain level.
 
It’s baffling to me how many people still defend Sancho, despite him being so obviously in the wrong and behaving so incredibly childish. Especially when those people are United fans, as he has done nothing of note for your club. I kind of get Dortmund fans taking his side. But United fans defending him is really strange.
 
Litch said:
Its controversial cause the only manager that generally has done it, is one of the most controversial managers of the prem era.

Any other examples you can think off made against 80m, 300K players chased for 2 seasons...especially has your comments just slashed 60% of any potential fee? To add insult to injury, told everyone the reason why?
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So because Sancho was expensive he shouldn't be criticised? And saying someone didn't train well this week slashes 60% of any potential fee?
 
Manc Shaman said:
One of the reasons I want Ten hag sacked asap. He doesn't know who our better players are. Martial and Sancho should be starting week in, week out. Yet he won't play Martial and has fallen out with sancho. Those two are our best attackers and the manager just doesn't see something so obvious.
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C'mon they're both awful, terrible attitudes/workrate we need to move on, Ten Hag has got things wrong but moving away from these two is a no brainer.
 
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