Right, so if there is nothing between the first 11? lets see who finishes above who the coming season.
Similar 11 strength and we have a worse coach right?
Erik ten Hag - Manchester United manager
- Thread starter sewey89
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Similar 11 strength and we have a worse coach right?
Seriously doubt he'll be here by the end of it. Given the developments and performances of the previous season he will need to do something extraordinary for the talk about his position to end.
I would hope that we make bigger improvements to the squad than them, while we know they will be losing at least one of their best players. Thankfully.
Well they have already signed a CB.
They will make improvements too. Lets come back to your post in 6 months time.
Alot of people on here think Glasner is better than Ten Hag, lets see what they both do with similar teams.
I have answered it, twice in fact.
This is a Ten Hag thread not a Rashford one.
You are spouting essays worth of waffle.
To prove what?
Similar teams?
The poster he's responding to said there's not much between United and Palace's first XI
Olise, Eze, Wharton, Guehi, Mitchell and possibly Mateta would all get in our first 11.
palace backups are weak though
palace backups are weak though
Ah right, well definitely don't agree. They might play better than us, but I bet if you swapped players then some of those Palace players would drop down a few levels. And probably vice versa our players. I think if we didn't have the quality we do then we'd have been in the bottom half last season. Hell take Bruno out alone and we probably would be. He's a crutch for managers here.
WHo is a better manager.
If both are working with similar starting 11... you feel Ten Hag is rubbish.. Glasner should be ahead of Ten Hag.
That's a pretty stupid argument. Football is a squad game, surely that's been emphasized last season by the amount of injuries several teams had. On top of that Palace will get pillaged for their best players while our best player(s) will remain. It's a far bigger challenge to replace your best players than replacing deadwood that contribute little (in our case).
How is it stupid?
If someone says Palace and United quality in first 11 is the same.... In my eyes first 11 is your best 11. Its funny you want to use Injuries as an excuse when we talk about other teams but when United fans use it for a poor season... all I hear is "everyone gets injuries" "Managers fault for injuries"
Lets see how many of their best players leave, compare to how many they sign.
We have also lost Varane who is one of our best CB's.
Yet we didn't offer Varane a new deal... if he was one of our best CBs we would have. Ten Hag and the owners clearly didn't rate Varane all that much. Ten Hag himself fell out with him mid season. I thought he was class myself and would have kept him, but clearly the club didn't rate him as much.
It's a stupid argument for the very reasons I just typed out. We're different caliber of clubs. One is a club that will have their best players poached and the other is the poacher. Therefore Palace's first 11 will get weaker while ours gets stronger, unless you think that none of Palaces' first 11 are going to get poached? I know you love Ten Hag and want to defend his honour like he's a family member but you do get into some stupid and petty arguments for no reason.
Well I;m not the one who compared them. I am not the one who said the starting 11 is the same quality.
I think ours is alot higher than Palace. I think our team is alot higher in quality.
By many accounts Varane tried to challenge ETH which undermined his authority, also very injury prone and getting on - good choice to let him go and replace him with someone ETH can work better with, and younger / more healthy to boot.
Leaving aside that:
- Football clubs employ more than 11 players for a reason
- Crystal Palace are unlikely to retain all of their starting 11 next season
- Your entire argument is an exercise in oversimplification
But as I said Palace are expected to lose at least one of their best players and we are expected to improve the first XI (assuming Ten Hag keeps as far away from transfers as possible).
Squad strength is more important than any manager (and where Ten Hag has massively failed with his £400m spent)
No meltdown here, though if you’re concerned about typos my defense is that I typically post from my phone, which has a glass keyboard.
In any event, no caftard should be under the impression that ETH will be here for years to come. He might, but after INEOS did what it did during those two and a half weeks it’s pretty clear ETH has very little goodwill in the bank with Sir Jim and others.
Fecking hell, are you guys still arguing about @Sarni 's expectations for the season start? 
Palace aren’t on United’s level FFS
We are underperforming…
We are underperforming…
Yes, Palace under Glasner raised far above United's level.Palace aren’t on United’s level FFS
We are underperforming…
And yes, that's because United massively underperformed and because Palace had an extremely strong final run.
If you look at the PL table since Glasner took over (so beginning from 26th matchday), we see Palace on 5th with 24 points from those 13 matches and United on 12th with 16 points.
Probably neither club will stay on that level, but how quickly they converge to a similar level again and further to United comfortably beating Palace is an open question.
And as I have seen quite a few calls of Palace having a new manager bump, please explain this:
Glasner's first six matches: 1W 2D 3L
Glasner's last seven matches: 6W 1D 0L
That's not a bump based on vibes after getting a new manager, that's a team clicking after some matches when they finally got how to play the way the new manager wants. So it should be somewhat sustainable.
In fairness to those who are making the Palace > United argument, Palace did smash the shit out of us. Not a squeaky bum slim victory, but thorough Godzilla v Bambi mauling.Palace aren’t on United’s level FFS
We are underperforming…
How long is a new manager bump?
We’ve seen this sort of impact a million times before in football. United are a better team and will finish higher.
So they are better than us because they smashed us in one game? Like I said we are underperforming and they are over performing.
Shouldn't the players of Manchester United be inarguably better than the players of crystal palace ?
Since forever , results are mostly won by the team with more quality . A coach can make some difference , he won't be ' thee ' difference that makes lower quality consistently beat higher quality . That doesn't really happen .
Ancellotti is top draw when it comes to working with top players and winning the top prizes . Possibly the best , send him to Everton .
My point isn't about the length of the bump but about the way it wents. Some teams just need a change due to negative atmosphere and will improve based on "vibes". I think Ole taking over United is a prime example for this kind of bump - started with an unbeaten 10W 1D run. When you immediately start winning you can do very few substantial changes to your team. Some (maybe important) tweaks, but nothing more.
When you start with weak results and see the team improve until it finally clicks, than it isn't about vibes but about actual improvements of the team. That's why I believe that Crystal Palace under Glasner can be a strong team for quite some time now.
They will lose their best players because bigger/better teams will pick them off.
I think they were good last season under Glasner but I can totally see a scenario where he’s sacked before the end of the season too.
Yep, a lot of possibilities. Selling players also will give them funds to buy new players. And who knows who buys smarter, United or Palace? It's impossible to predict right now. The only thing we know as a fact is that United ended the season very weak and Palace ended it very strong, including completely destroying United when they played each other. So I understand everyone who right now is worried about playing Palace at the beginning of next season based on that, but I also get everybody who discards that sentiment because of both clubs' overall status.
A bit odd saying this considering we finished above them without some of our first 11 all season.
I was controversial when I was on a wind up but seemingly I am even more controversial when I’m serious…Fecking hell, are you guys still arguing about @Sarni 's expectations for the season start?
They underperformed massively under Hodgson.
As did we under ETH…
More importantly than the manager coming in was that their top players came back and were able to play together and maintain fitness for a sustained period. I don't think Glasner would have got the form out of the team if Olise and Eze were still out together. Interesting to see if he can keep up the trajectory next season.
I was entertained while you were on the wind up but thought your point was so obvious that it was completely boring... I didn't expect this discussion to blow up as it did
You are over simplifying my view
United in their worst season in PL history and underperforming, still finished 11 points ahead of Palace. On United level, what a load of rubbish.
For the uninformed, what was your expectation?
Jim Ratcliffe: "We kept Erik ten Hag because he is a good coach. We have had good coaches since Ferguson, and none have succeeded. The root of the problem is not the coach, it is the environment around it. We must improve this environment"
Oh look even INEOS realised that it is more than the coach.
Oh look even INEOS realised that it is more than the coach.
I don't understand your point, Manchester United's squad is inarguably better than Crystal Palace's.
What's confusing me is that I just read (paraphrased) "let's revisit this in six months to see if United are above Palace in the table as, if so, this will prove that ETH is the better Manager."
That's a statement in defence of ETH. It's an indictment of how far expectations have fallen.