Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24

[tomaldinho1]

Obviously it's true. You dont strip the captaincy from a player you expect to keep in the squad and then later rely on as first choice

If he planned to keep Maguire in the first team set up, why take captaincy off him in the first place? He's orders of magnitude better captaincy material than Bruno if both are on the pitch.

Also ETH is clearly heavily involved in all the coaching sessions, he's the one deciding how much fitness and conditioning work to do. And it's either far too much or far too little.

Why would you not be ok with keeping them in the squad? Maguire didn't throw his toys out of the pram, he ended up not leaving as we basically pay him too much. So ETH was clearly open to selling him but was very open about him being a good player and how he should fight for his place. Seems to be a contrast to this situation where Varane has apparently not taken being dropped well at all.

He took the captaincy off him because he wasn't playing, very simple.

Not sure you understand how any professional football club works if you think a manager is creating fitness and conditioning plans.

 

[tomaldinho1]

I won't lie and pretend it doesn't ring some alarm bells that he's fallen out with Varane who is the definition of professional.

But it's irrelevant anyway. Varane, Casemiro, De Gea and Ronaldo are all players past their peaks and they're all players who won't be here in 5 years. I see no point backing them over the manager even if I disagree with aspects of their departures.

How do we know this? This is like how some of our fanbase still can't accept Cavani used us to keep fit for the WC and then bailed on us because he's a big name, says the right stuff on social media and carries himself well. We have no idea what he's like in the dressing room, he might be an absolute hothead, he might be quiet as a mouse but I think it's fair to say he's not reacted well to getting dropped.

 

[crossy1686]

No Anger here, just sick of reading repetitive bollocks from the same idiots.

Don't think your so special.

Repetitive bollocks? What are you on about?

You stated Pep as an example of managers getting rid of players whenever they feel like it, then conveniently leave out the fact they've breached 115 FFP rules in the process of doing that very thing, and instead throw the name 'Zlatan' in there, which was what? 2011?

This isn't a cult, people should be able to have open discussions from both perspectives without people getting all touchy around the manager. If you don't like it, a discussion forum is not the place for you.

 

[hobbers]

Why would you not be ok with keeping them in the squad? Maguire didn't throw his toys out of the pram, he ended up not leaving as we basically pay him too much. So ETH was clearly open to selling him but was very open about him being a good player and how he should fight for his place. Seems to be a contrast to this situation where Varane has apparently not taken being dropped well at all.

He took the captaincy off him because he wasn't playing, very simple.

Not sure you understand how any professional football club works if you think a manager is creating fitness and conditioning plans.

ETH wasn't 'open to selling him'. He clearly wanted him sold, expected him to be sold and planned his squad on the basis he would be sold. The whole thing is a needless situation caused by bad planning and ad hoc decision making.

Not sure you understand ETH if you think he isn't heavily involved in all planning around fitness and conditioning. Ultimately he sets the workload. Managers are always responsible for how fit the squad is. And we've seen how drastically the squad fitness fluctuated as different managers came and went.

 

[el3mel]

How do we know this? This is like how some of our fanbase still can't accept Cavani used us to keep fit for the WC and then bailed on us because he's a big name, says the right stuff on social media and carries himself well. We have no idea what he's like in the dressing room, he might be an absolute hothead, he might be quiet as a mouse but I think it's fair to say he's not reacted well to getting dropped.

What's the issue in this? He has no connections to Man United whatsoever. He's a professional. The only thing asked from him is to perform for us, regardless of his motivation from this. He gave us very good first season then instead of us letting him go we decided to force him to stay around. It's ultimately our fault.

I don't care if our players love Man United or care about the club in general. The only thing I care about is them being professional and performing well on the pitch.

 

[El Jefe]

Simping for managers continues at this club. I think Ten Hag comes across as a clown personally.

To be a top manager, you need to know how to manage top players. Managing their egos as well as your own as a manager is what makes players and the squad respect you. There is clearly a disconnect with EtH especially when you consider he fell out with Varane and Ronaldo. Two serial winners who have had largely unproblematic careers when it comes to coaching. They have been managed by the greats and Ronaldo said it with his own words that Ten Hag lacked respect.

It would’ve different if his falling outs were due to attitude issues like the case with Sancho but even then from how it started and grew into what it is now is something that can be avoided.

Bust ups can happen between players and coaches but the coach needs to be selfless also and think of what’s best for the squad before his own ego.

 

[We Need Another Rebuild]

Repetitive bollocks? What are you on about?

You stated Pep as an example of managers getting rid of players whenever they feel like it, then conveniently leave out the fact they've breached 115 FFP rules in the process of doing that very thing, and instead throw the name 'Zlatan' in there, which was what? 2011?

This isn't a cult, people should be able to have open discussions from both perspectives without people getting all touchy around the manager. If you don't like it, a discussion forum is not the place for you.

Seeing as you are hellbent on this Pep argument, he fell out with Joao Cancelo not to long ago.

The 115 charges are for a multitude of seasons, even including buying Bony from Swansea, also falsifying sponsorship. These have been pre Pep and during his tenure so whatever floats your boat.

I didn't realise every time i mention city i must mention there charges.

No cult question here, opinions are like assholes everyone has got one.

 

[PoTMS]

Yes, Pep and Fergie used to fall out with players. But not 3 high profile players in less than one year especially when the results aren't there to back you up unlike the previous two who earnt that right. From all the reports, he's proving to be a really poor man manager.

 

[devilish]

The amount of beefs are getting a little concerning. Ronaldo and Sancho were understandable but the bust up with Varane isn’t sitting right with me.

Yeah he’s been under performing and I wouldn’t be too sad if he moves on but the amount of arguments ETH is getting into points to a lack of man management skills.

I am not.


A- we stocked up with players (Ronaldo, Varane, Casemiro) who has nothing to prove and who came to United for a last pay cheque. The Saudi league provide more money then us for half the effort
B-This is not the first manager that our squad had thrown under the bus. Its endemic at a poorly run club who struggle to get rid of players.

I have question marks on whether ETH is the right fit for us. Having said these issues will need to be tackled irrespective of whose manager. Sancho had been highly unprofessional while Casemiro and Varane represent the past not the future

 

[devilish]

Yes, Pep and Fergie used to fall out with players. But not 3 high profile players in less than one year especially when the results aren't there to back you up unlike the previous two who earnt that right. From all the reports, he's proving to be a really poor man manager.

Kanchelskis, Hughes, Ince

 

[The Purley King]

Well done ETH for sticking to his principles.
We don't know why he's fallen out with Varane, but his performances this year have been largely average or poor. Perhaps he doesn't like being told he's going to have to up his game to stay in the side? Say what you like about Maguire, but he backed himself to get back in the team, got his head down, worked hard, took his opportunity with some good performances and now the shirt is his to lose. What's wrong about that?
Seems like there is a true meritocracy evolving which can only be a good thing (with the possible exception of Antony and Rashford, but Rome wasn't built in a day).
If certain players don't like it, then they should be sold asap. If Varane goes as a result then I wouldn't bat an eyelid. Perhaps uncle Jim can put in a good word for us and we'll get Todibo instead.

 

[The Purley King]

Kanchelskis, Hughes, Ince

Very good point.
Fergie was also ruthless with Beckham, Keane (at the end), Stam (although he subsequently thought he'd made a mistake there), RVN and probably others I've forgotten.
You have to evolve and get rid of players who aren't buying in to the overall vision.

 

[devilish]

Very good point.
Fergie was also ruthless with Beckham, Keane (at the end), Stam (although he subsequently thought he'd made a mistake there), RVN and probably others I've forgotten.
You have to evolve and get rid of players who aren't buying in to the overall vision.

The situation is even worse now than then. I don't want to go in detail in every case but most of those players saw United as the pinnacle of their career. Keane and RVN caused a fuss because they were caught up in a rebuild process at an age when they won't be able to benefit out of it. This is different. Varane and Casemiro have little to no attachment towards the club, they came to United knowing very well that it was a step down from Real Madrid and what attracted them here was that last pay cheque. Turns out that now they can actually make more money in Saudi Arabia for less effort.

 

[el3mel]

Very good point.
Fergie was also ruthless with Beckham, Keane (at the end), Stam (although he subsequently thought he'd made a mistake there), RVN and probably others I've forgotten.
You have to evolve and get rid of players who aren't buying in to the overall vision.

Fergie's vision was proven when he got rid of these players. He won the club ton of trophies. What did Ten Hag do for the club to be warranted same level of authority regarding his "vision" ?

 

[3KDré]

How do we know this? This is like how some of our fanbase still can't accept Cavani used us to keep fit for the WC and then bailed on us because he's a big name, says the right stuff on social media and carries himself well. We have no idea what he's like in the dressing room, he might be an absolute hothead, he might be quiet as a mouse but I think it's fair to say he's not reacted well to getting dropped.

Maybe, but we don't really KNOW anything as definite fact anyway. We can only go off what we see. Every clip I have seen he is a consummate professional, never heard any negative press about him etc etc. Again these aren't concrete, but equally we can say it's not concrete that Ten Hag hasn't been a prick to him - we believe it not to be the case based on what we have seen.

 

[RedUnited86]

Ten Hag at Goodison

 

[kkj25]

Fergie's vision was proven when he got rid of these players. He won the club ton of trophies. What did Ten Hag do for the club to be warranted same level of authority regarding his "vision" ?

Not that I am saying he will but how exactly can you definitively state that he won't win trophies and that these are not the steps required to purge the squad of it's issues and whilst I do not remember the stories at the time of SAF's start he did discard or bench players that people thought should be playing and people no doubt would say the same stuff about him. " TA RA FERGIE". As for Varane and Maguire I actually think its where we should be as a club anyway performance based rather than prior achievements based, and it cannot all happen at once. If Varane does not want to fight for a place then that is fine we do not want that attitude at the club. Also maguire clearly could not handle the pressure of being captain and needed to not be anymore leaving or not. BTW its the flippin tabloids making up stories on ETH and Varane fallout afaik have not heard this from any credible journalist.

 

[Still ill]

Fergie's vision was proven when he got rid of these players. He won the club ton of trophies. What did Ten Hag do for the club to be warranted same level of authority regarding his "vision" ?

Well grand, but you could have that exact conversation when Fergie jettisoned the brilliant and much loved Whiteside and McGrath before he'd won a damn thing here. It's the chicken and the egg, innit? 'Vision' seems obvious and magnificent in hindsight, not so much at the start of the process.

 

[tomaldinho1]

Maybe, but we don't really KNOW anything as definite fact anyway. We can only go off what we see. Every clip I have seen he is a consummate professional, never heard any negative press about him etc etc. Again these aren't concrete, but equally we can say it's not concrete that Ten Hag hasn't been a prick to him - we believe it not to be the case based on what we have seen.

That's true, he seems a nice dude but then you can say the same for ETH's treatment of him. ETH seems to only take issue with discipline (dropping Rashford for being late, Sancho, Ronaldo) so it does make me wonder if Varane has struggled with getting dropped for basically the first time in his career and, I will say, it's right that he has been dropped as well. The most common scenario is surely manager drops player and players reacts badly versus manager deliberately pisses off a player for no reason/force them out.

 

[evil_geko]

There's benefits and drawbacks.

Selecting players on form is good for fostering meritocracy, competition, etc.

On the other hand, an excessive focus on form at the expense of overall quality is a form of short-term thinking.

Depends on a position, you can afford to keep playing out of form offensive players much more than defenders where errors cost you a lot more.

 

[RedSky]

We're going to have no squad left when Ten Hag gets booted out.

Just the usual players we can't ever get rid of.

 

[pocco]

Personally I think the boss has made a master class of a decision by taking the pressure off Harry by removing the heavy weight of being the Captain, therefore he has just got his head down and deservedly played his way back into the first team.

there's no way on earth that was intentional, that's just pure luck that Maguire has been thoroughly professional.

 

[tomaldinho1]

ETH wasn't 'open to selling him'. He clearly wanted him sold, expected him to be sold and planned his squad on the basis he would be sold. The whole thing is a needless situation caused by bad planning and ad hoc decision making.

Not sure you understand ETH if you think he isn't heavily involved in all planning around fitness and conditioning. Ultimately he sets the workload. Managers are always responsible for how fit the squad is. And we've seen how drastically the squad fitness fluctuated as different managers came and went.

You don't know the first point. The second is just incorrect.

What's the issue in this? He has no connections to Man United whatsoever. He's a professional. The only thing asked from him is to perform for us, regardless of his motivation from this. He gave us very good first season then instead of us letting him go we decided to force him to stay around. It's ultimately our fault.

I don't care if our players love Man United or care about the club in general. The only thing I care about is them being professional and performing well on the pitch.

Maybe just a can of worms I shouldn't have opened but he stalled on our offer trying desperately for Athletico and one of the Liga NOS clubs but no one would match his ridiculous agent fee (guess who did!) then he came and was ok for a season, you could see whispers of how amazing he used to be but he was old as feck, then we inexcusably extended him and signed Ronaldo, Ragnick said in that presser he ruled himself out of playing when he was fit. Guess I just hated the type of signing he symbolized.

 

[crossy1686]

Ten Hag’s done nothing remotely close to Fergie to deserve these comparisons. LVG also cleared out Evan’s, Welbeck, Hernandez, RVP, Nani, Rafael, Zaha, Evra, Rio, Fletcher, which is fine in essence, but look who he brought in to replace them.

It’s fine saying Fergie did this and it worked, but based on Ten Hags recruitment he shouldn’t be allowed to sign anyone else.

 

[hobbers]

You don't know the first point. The second is just incorrect.

It’s fine, everyone has their own point at which it becomes impossible to keep crafting up excuses and shifting the blame for a manager.

 

[el3mel]

Not that I am saying he will but how exactly can you definitively state that he won't win trophies and that these are not the steps required to purge the squad of it's issues and whilst I do not remember the stories at the time of SAF's start he did discard or bench players that people thought should be playing and people no doubt would say the same stuff about him. " TA RA FERGIE". As for Varane and Maguire I actually think its where we should be as a club anyway performance based rather than prior achievements based, and it cannot all happen at once. If Varane does not want to fight for a place then that is fine we do not want that attitude at the club. Also maguire clearly could not handle the pressure of being captain and needed to not be anymore leaving or not. BTW its the flippin tabloids making up stories on ETH and Varane fallout afaik have not heard this from any credible journalist.

How can you say he will ? It's unproven at this point so it's ridiculous to blindly support his vision when he gets into a conflict with players. He hasn't done anything at United so far to support this level of unquestioned authority like Ferguson or Guardiola.

 

[Gavinb33]

Under Ole it was the manger is to nice to players etc etc and now we have a manager who wants certain standards and discipline in the squad and its oh no won't someone think of the multimillionaire players, some of you are so transparent.

 

[el3mel]

You don't know the first point. The second is just incorrect.

Maybe just a can of worms I shouldn't have opened but he stalled on our offer trying desperately for Athletico and one of the Liga NOS clubs but no one would match his ridiculous agent fee (guess who did!) then he came and was ok for a season, you could see whispers of how amazing he used to be but he was old as feck, then we inexcusably extended him and signed Ronaldo, Ragnick said in that presser he ruled himself out of playing when he was fit. Guess I just hated the type of signing he symbolized.

All of this just screams our fault and not his really. He has no affection for the club, which is understandable and we should have zero issue with it. We shouldn't have extended his contract from the start. We got one very good season for him, let him go and let us all move on.

 

[Judas]

Fine with him setting standards, this club has desperately needed them for years, but it’s harder to really back him with the continued slop we see on the pitch every week.

 

[kkj25]

How can you say he will ? It's unproven at this point so it's ridiculous to blindly support his vision when he gets into a conflict with players. He hasn't done anything at United so far to support this level of unquestioned authority like Ferguson or Guardiola.

Not saying he will, I am saying I don't know and you don't know. The manager should always be ahead of the players and get our support over players. The club matters, the managers authority over players matter, players in terms of disputes or fallouts do not matter club first always.

 

[Solius]

No more bollocks than you post on a regular basis.

Clearly to subtle for your level of intellect, i will leave that one with you.

Don't think to hard might hurt yourself.

Ironic.

 

[The Purley King]

Fergie's vision was proven when he got rid of these players. He won the club ton of trophies. What did Ten Hag do for the club to be warranted same level of authority regarding his "vision" ?

You can see he’s putting the building blocks in place in terms of culture and what attitude players have to have.
You have to do that first otherwise everything else can easily crumble.
I criticise ETH a lot when it comes to tactics, substitutions and our recent general style of play, but cannot criticise him for this, exactly the right thing to do.

 

[BeforeKeanetherewasRobson]

If a player can't play the style of football required then you get rid, pretty simple team building, Pep falls out with players every season with more consistent players than Varane.

Shooting his nose of to spite his face.... Not exactly set the world alight has he this season.

We all know he wanted Maguire out but the finances didn't work now he is playing him over Varane, nobody batted an eyelid when he stripped Maguire of the captaincy, but he has grafted and earnt his spot back.

If Varane wants the Saudi money let him go and bring in a replacement most likely Todibo and move on and save a fortune on wages.

The Maguire Varane thing seems to be down to what Ten Hag wants in the out balls. Maguire can play those cross field passes, Varane can’t.. Ten Hag chooses Maguire.

I don’t think Ten Hag would say Maguire is a better all round defender (though he’s improved this season… from a low bar to be fair), just about which players fit the overall team tactic.

 

[Santos J]

No more bollocks than you post on a regular basis.

Clearly to subtle for your level of intellect, i will leave that one with you.

Don't think to hard might hurt yourself.

Ironic.

Don't forget the rest

No Anger here, just sick of reading repetitive bollocks from the same idiots.

Don't think your so special.

Seeing as you are hellbent on this Pep argument, he fell out with Joao Cancelo not to long ago.

The 115 charges are for a multitude of seasons, even including buying Bony from Swansea, also falsifying sponsorship. These have been pre Pep and during his tenure so whatever floats your boat.

I didn't realise every time i mention city i must mention there charges.

No cult question here, opinions are like assholes everyone has got one.

 

[Solius]

They're gone.

 

[BeforeKeanetherewasRobson]

Fergie's vision was proven when he got rid of these players. He won the club ton of trophies. What did Ten Hag do for the club to be warranted same level of authority regarding his "vision" ?

Took him a few years though? And went through some serious abuse/doubt from the fans before the cup win in 90 (which a lot forget we were very close to losing).

 

[MadDogg]

Simping for managers continues at this club. I think Ten Hag comes across as a clown personally.

To be a top manager, you need to know how to manage top players. Managing their egos as well as your own as a manager is what makes players and the squad respect you. There is clearly a disconnect with EtH especially when you consider he fell out with Varane and Ronaldo. Two serial winners who have had largely unproblematic careers when it comes to coaching. They have been managed by the greats and Ronaldo said it with his own words that Ten Hag lacked respect.

It would’ve different if his falling outs were due to attitude issues like the case with Sancho but even then from how it started and grew into what it is now is something that can be avoided.

Bust ups can happen between players and coaches but the coach needs to be selfless also and think of what’s best for the squad before his own ego.

The only possibly way not to fall out with Ronaldo is to have him as clear first choice starting pretty much every game. That was fine throughout his career as he deserved to be that clear first choice, but by the time he came back here he was physically declining at a fast rate. He just about made it through his first year back but even then he had a long period where he struggled badly. He then demanded to leave, refused to join the preseason, and played like utter shit, all before then falling out with ETH when he wasn't undisputed first choice. That is 100% on Ronaldo and it amazes me there are still people who think ETH did anything wrong there.

 

[MalaysianRed7]

I’ve genuinely had enough of a lot of our fanbase. Many of the match going fans refer to the Twitter army as “E-Reds” who don’t actually know much about the game and just “support” us to slate everything to do with the club. As a person who mostly watches our games on a dodgy stream, posts on Twitter and RedCafe and has been to no more than 3 competitive United games (not including when the team came to Malaysia in 2009) and stood in the Stretford End no more than once, I absolutely agree with them.

When Ten Hag drops a player, for example Varane, Casemiro or Sancho, it’s always “why doesn’t he drop Rashford or Antony?” from the Twitter fans. If he dropped Rashford and Antony as well, it would probably be “why doesn’t he drop Varane, Casemiro and Sancho?”. If he dropped them all, they’d go “we’ve lost with a team of kids today because Ten Hag wanted to show how authoritative he is”. If he just kept the same team, it’d be “we can’t buy a win and Ten Hag hasn’t dropped anybody”. Funnily enough, in the game against Betis after the Liverpool loss last season, that’s exactly what he did. You can guess what the reaction from the Twitter army was. You can also guess whether we won or not.

It’s just infuriating. They all claim to back Ten Hag, then hammer him when he drops their favourites. I don’t see why we can’t just support the man who watches these players play or train day in day out. Also, the way he’s managing the team now is the polar opposite to what Ole was doing. Funnily enough again, Ole got dog’s abuse every day as well, for believe it or not, pandering to player power.

Personally, I’m backing the manager over any dissenting player. I’m also backing players like Marcus Rashford who was excellent for us last season, and immediately apologised to the manager when he called him out for celebrating his birthday in public after the City game, even though he probably felt that he had every right to do so as it was his birthday. I’m also backing players like Onana, Dalot, Maguire, McTominay and Bruno who give their best in every game. I was at the Brentford game, and the way Dalot celebrated McTominay’s winner was heartwarming. Players who I will not back are the likes of Sancho and even Varane, who go against the manager for tactical decisions and leak negative stories to the press.

Rant over.

 

[tomaldinho1]

It’s fine, everyone has their own point at which it becomes impossible to keep crafting up excuses and shifting the blame for a manager.

There are legit things to criticise on ETH on - I'm not sure him dropping Varane is one of them. If genuine details emerge I will reassess but, as it stands, it seems like Maguire (rightly) becoming the in form RCB has irked Varane.

 

[TrueRed79]

By the end, he'll just have Martinez, Antony, Malacia and couple of other he signed left who he hasn't fallen out with.

Can't wait this nightmare to end. Will probably go down as the worst manager since Sir Alex; even worse than Moyes. Currently we have the worst squad since Sir Alex retired, play the worst football, score the least amount of goals and are on a path to nowhere. I dread the 10 remaining games this year. Out of the CL and probably lying in the bottom half of the table if this clown remains.

Name to post content ratio matches up nicely. Nice one.