Erik ten Hag | Currently unemployed

[Alex99]

He said it in a press conference why do you need a source?

Anyway he said

“I know Matthijs well and I will not deny that. I wanted to sign him two years ago but at that time, he was already very far along to join Bayern Munich (from Juventus) but believe it or not, his name did not come from me in the process (of targeting signings).”

The Athletic posted this
https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/56...h-matthijs-de-ligt?source=user-shared-article

On a side note I'm pretty annoyed by athletic. They're meant to be premium but they change their narrative according to momentum. As you just saw with your athletic article and mine.

A good example is they did a summer deep dive the year we finished 3rd and were complimentary to ten hags handling. And then they were changing the narrative of that same summer when we finished 8th.

It all needs to be taken with a huge pinch of salt, to be fair. Even there, it's unclear whether he's talking about the initial pursuit two years prior or the signing this summer when he references the club bringing up De Ligt.

I've just looked again RE: Ashworth's involvement, and the narrative changes a few times. He was a long-standing Ten Hag target, then he was a player Ashworth had followed since joining Newcastle, then he was a player Ashworth signed off on to keep Ten Hag happy, and as you've pointed out, at one point he was a "club" target.

INEOS have effectively washed their hands of it all though. I think Ratcliffe and co. are keeping themselves distinct from the actual football operations and have basically said the signings were all down to Ashworth, even if it was just a case of him signing off on them, so when Ten Hag's saying "the club" he means Murtough/Ashworth and co. rather than INEOS.

 

[Rooney in Paris]

Better to keep your powder dry than make poor big money savings / high wages.

Can't blame ETH, the owners should veto the deals or say only at reasonable fees or no deal

Have youth options to use.

This is all very weird coming from a Chelsea fan

 

[VP89]

It all needs to be taken with a huge pinch of salt, to be fair. Even there, it's unclear whether he's talking about the initial pursuit two years prior or the signing this summer when he references the club bringing up De Ligt.

I've just looked again RE: Ashworth's involvement, and the narrative changes a few times. He was a long-standing Ten Hag target, then he was a player Ashworth had followed since joining Newcastle, then he was a player Ashworth signed off on to keep Ten Hag happy, and as you've pointed out, at one point he was a "club" target.

INEOS have effectively washed their hands of it all though. I think Ratcliffe and co. are keeping themselves distinct from the actual football operations and have basically said the signings were all down to Ashworth, even if it was just a case of him signing off on them, so when Ten Hag's saying "the club" he means Murtough/Ashworth and co. rather than INEOS.

There's no pinch of salt. He was clearly talking about De Ligt as the current target. You need to watch the press conference, it's quite clear and unequivocal.

Ineos also haven't washed their hands of it, SJR just said that they consulted with the coach on transfers and worked together but caveated that the team was newly formed.

In fact SJR said he backed the new recruits to all be a success so again, there's conviction there too.

 

[Alex99]

There's no pinch of salt. He was clearly talking about De Ligt as the current target. You need to watch the press conference, it's quite clear and unequivocal.

Ineos also haven't washed their hands of it, SJR just said that they consulted with the coach on transfers and worked together but caveated that the team was newly formed.

In fact SJR said he backed the new recruits to all be a success so again, there's conviction there.

I mean washed their hands of it in terms of Ratcliffe and his business associates having any actual say in football matters like specific transfer targets. They'll make the calls on the department heads (like Ashworth) but that's as far as their responsibility extends.

Ashworth was ultimately let go because they weren't happy with the job he was doing, and part of his job was identifying and sanctioning transfers.

 

[VP89]

I mean washed their hands of it in terms of Ratcliffe and his business associates having any actual say in football matters like specific transfer targets. They'll make the calls on the department heads (like Ashworth) but that's as far as their responsibility extends.

Ashworth was ultimately let go because they weren't happy with the job he was doing, and part of his job was identifying and sanctioning transfers.

No it wasn't. Ashworth does not identify transfers. He said this himself when he covered what a DoF does.

 

[Alex99]

No it wasn't. Ashworth does not identify transfers. He said this himself when he covered what a DoF does.

He was absolutely part of the process, even if he was more of a filter than the driving force.

We've also moved way past what we were initially discussing here and I don't really care enough to keep going.

Both Ten Hag and Ashworth have gone. Both were a bit shit.

 

[VP89]

He was absolutely part of the process, even if he was more of a filter than the driving force.

We've also moved way past what we were initially discussing here and I don't really care enough to keep going.

Both Ten Hag and Ashworth have gone. Both were a bit shit.

He did not identify any targets, just clearing that up as you said it was part of his remit.

And de Ligt at least was suggested to ten hag from the club. He said that himself. I think that clears up any doubt as to whether he was a club signing or a manager pushing scenario.

 

[Alex99]

He did not identify any targets, just clearing that up as you said it was part of his remit.

And de Ligt at least was suggested to ten hag from the club. He said that himself. I think that clears up any doubt as to whether he was a club signing or a manager pushing scenario.

Identifying doesn't necessarily mean "go and scout that guy, I think he'd be good". It can mean filtering through the data/reports we have, which was absolutely part of Ashworth's remit, even if he was being presented this information by other recruitment staff.

What does a Director of Football do if they're not remotely involved in identifying players?

 

[VP89]

Identifying doesn't necessarily mean "go and scout that guy, I think he'd be good". It can mean filtering through the data/reports we have, which was absolutely part of Ashworth's remit, even if he was being presented this information by other recruitment staff.

What does a Director of Football do if they're not remotely involved in identifying players?

Ashworth would probably still not be involved much with this as we had Vivel in to look after player recruitment.

It did not feel like it was part of his known remit, he explained what he's responsible for at Brighton and that's a close comparable to his expectation when he joined us :

 

[Alex99]

Ashworth would probably still not be involved much with this as we had Vivel in to look after player recruitment.

It did not feel like it was part of his known remit, he explained what he's responsible for at Brighton and that's a close comparable to his expectation when he joined us :

He literally mentions recruitment as part of his remit in that video.

It's obviously in a more overseeing and signing-off capacity than being particularly hands-on, but I've never argued otherwise there.

Again, by "identifying" I mean being the final filter before we sign a player rather than him actively scouting and recommending targets.

Sky Sports:

Ashworth was responsible for football performance and recruitment, reporting to new CEO Omar Berrada, who was hired from Manchester City.

Premier League:

His remit was reportedly to oversee football performance and recruitment.

The Guardian:

The former FA technical director was given the remit to oversee performance and recruitment at United.

It seems that Ashworth was essentially in a redundant position, as we've reportedly just transferred his responsibilities over to Wilcox, and since hired Vivell permanently, although it appears Vivell has always been on a rung below, despite holding the title "Director".

The Athletic:

At United, Vivell will report to Ashworth

Vivell reports into technical director Jason Wilcox, who has assumed greater responsibility following the departure of sporting director Dan Ashworth after just five months at the club.

 

[tenpoless]

Ashworth would probably still not be involved much with this as we had Vivel in to look after player recruitment.

It did not feel like it was part of his known remit, he explained what he's responsible for at Brighton and that's a close comparable to his expectation when he joined us :

So it's true then... he became pale after joining United.

 

[VP89]

He literally mentions recruitment as part of his remit in that video.

It's obviously in a more overseeing and signing-off capacity than being particularly hands-on, but I've never argued otherwise there.

Again, by "identifying" I mean being the final filter before we sign a player rather than him actively scouting and recommending targets.

Sky Sports:


Premier League:


The Guardian:


It seems that Ashworth was essentially in a redundant position, as we've reportedly just transferred his responsibilities over to Wilcox, and since hired Vivell permanently, although it appears Vivell has always been on a rung below, despite holding the title "Director".

The Athletic:

Yeah he was looking at how the recruitment fits in with the other departments (so that can be for the coach, how it might affect the pathway from academy players, the wage structure)

Back to your point though, MDL as a target to go for was a suggestion made by the club to the manager rather than the other way round. ETH has stated this directly and I don't think there's a better source published to say otherwise.

 

[Alex99]

Yeah he was looking at how the recruitment fits in with the other departments (so that can be for the coach, how it might affect the pathway from academy players, the wage structure)

Back to your point though, MDL as a target to go for was a suggestion made by the club to the manager rather than the other way round. ETH has stated this directly and I don't think there's a better source published to say otherwise.

He was literally the man signing off on transfers and had the head of recruitment reporting to him.

I still think that's very much a 50/50 at most signing though. Ten Hag was also very open about wanting De Ligt before, had worked with him before, and he's also been defensive about his involvement in signing Dutch/former players having been heavily criticised for Antony in particular.

 

[The Mitcher]

Very unprofessional for Rats to be dumping on ETH. Interesting to hear his response, the settlement contracts normally have confidentiality clauses.

He used to throw players under the bus in pressers, so it's a bit cheap to say they are unprofesional but he wasn't.

 

[The Mitcher]

Sir Jim:



Me and few others spent entire summer arguing with people here that we are only signing some players because they are Dutch and barely survived from being attacked by his fans that it's not true. And we finally have our owner confirming it now. I wonder where all those people are now?

It was a bit more than that. It was because these players were part of the agency that his son ran, so he was basically getting these players from this agency and paying his son money in the process. Yes, it's that nepotistic and shady.

 

[stevoc]

ETH himself said the club had offered him DeLigt. 100% sure of this.

Doesn’t mean that was the case.

 

[Amar__]

It was a bit more than that. It was because these players were part of the agency that his son ran, so he was basically getting these players from this agency and paying his son money in the process. Yes, it's that nepotistic and shady.

Yeah, we were questioning him for that in some posts too(altough some probably still find it ridiculous), especially after he opted for Weghorst out of all players in the world.

 

[VP89]

He was literally the man signing off on transfers and had the head of recruitment reporting to him.

I still think that's very much a 50/50 at most signing though. Ten Hag was also very open about wanting De Ligt before, had worked with him before, and he's also been defensive about his involvement in signing Dutch/former players having been heavily criticised for Antony in particular.

Signing off on transfers doesn't mean he would have played any major role in talent identification but that's probably getting into a micro debate.

I dont think it's 50/50 in the sense of being led by ten hag - the coach literally said the club suggested him and he was on board. If you mean 50/50 in the sense that manager and board were in sync then sure. That's pretty much the case for any transfer at a well run club.