Erik ten Hag | Currently unemployed

Polar said:
And Poch didn’t during his spell in Tottenham? People seem to forget and remember selectively in order to support their own agenda.

As I’ve said before: Poch’s performance with Tottenham was on level with Klopp and Pep.
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I don't think Poch's football at Tottenham was all that great. It was decent, sure, but Tottenham never dominated games like Ten Hag's Ajax does. Frankly, I don't think even Klopp's team do it. Only Pep has that similar control over the game. Yes, I konw, the opposition in the Dutch league is different, but Ajax also don't possess similar resources to those of City or Liverpool.

I'm not judging Poch on his loss to Madrid or his previous CL performances. Shit happens in a cup competition. What I'm judging him on is his unimpressive PSG run. The time where we should have gone for him (after getting sacked form Tottenham) has long been passed. Now there are better, up and coming managers out there that are on the top of their game or have that potential to be the best of the best. Poch is old news, I'm sorry to say. People that bring up his Tottenham run are living in the past. That's like me justifying Mourinho to be our manager again just because he had amazing few years at the start of his career. There are no managers like Fergie who can keep high level for their entire career. Most managers, same as players, have an expiration date. And I feel that Poch's expiration date has passed - even though he is still obviously decent, he's not the one to take us to the next level.
 
pocco said:
The double standards on here are ridiculous. That's why I can't take half the opinions seriously on here. Some posters recognise the strengths and weaknesses of all managers but want ETH... Fair enough. But this that have slated Poch all week then come straight to this thread, after Ajax are beaten at home by the underdogs and knocked out, saying 'Sign him up' are just fecking muppets.

Reminds me of those that used to try and say Ole was better than Arteta. Simply can't see anything other than black and white and are just reactive to results or like a herd of sheep that are influenced by others.
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I totally agree. There's no nuance for a lot of posters who are firmly in one camp when it comes to these two managers especially those in favor of Ten Hag who's the popular choice. I actually like ETH (though Poch is my first choice) but it's hard to stomach all the blatant falsehoods spouted about Pochettino here and the double standards you mention
 
Sviken said:
I don't think Poch's football at Tottenham was all that great. It was decent, sure, but Tottenham never dominated games like Ten Hag's Ajax does. Frankly, I don't think even Klopp's team do it. Only Pep has that similar control over the game. Yes, I konw, the opposition in the Dutch league is different, but Ajax also don't possess similar resources to those of City or Liverpool.

I'm not judging Poch on his loss to Madrid or his previous CL performances. Shit happens in a cup competition. What I'm judging him on is his unimpressive PSG run. The time where we should have gone for him (after getting sacked form Tottenham) has long been passed. Now there are better, up and coming managers out there that are on the top of their game or have that potential to be the best of the best. Poch is old news, I'm sorry to say. People that bring up his Tottenham run are living in the past. That's like me justifying Mourinho to be our manager again just because he had amazing few years at the start of his career. There are no managers like Fergie who can keep high level for their entire career. Most managers, same as players, have an expiration date. And I feel that Poch's expiration date has passed - even though he is still obviously decent, he's not the one to take us to the next level.
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Maybe you should revisit the 2016/17 season when Spurs finished second with 86 points while scoring the most goals in the league (86) and conceding the least (26). They had three players score more than 20 goals that season (Son, Kane and Delle Ali) and played high octane attacking football that was not even matched by the eventual champions Chelsea
 
I think the weirdest of all posters are those who are so completely anti Pochettino that they deride his every failing and have an excuse for all the good things he has done. I'm definitely team Ten Hag but some of the nonsense spouted on here about Pochettino make him sound like he is Sean Dyche or something. Bizarre and lacks balance.
 
Frank Grimes said:
I think the weirdest of all posters are those who are so completely anti Pochettino that they deride his every failing and have an excuse for all the good things he has done. I'm definitely team Ten Hag but some of the nonsense spouted on here about Pochettino make him sound like he is Sean Dyche or something. Bizarre and lacks balance.
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Yeah I feel that way too, I feel it's being driven by the fan channels (United Stand and Stretford Paddock are vehemently anti Poch) who constantly harp on about how Pochs friends in the media are the ones creating the pro Poch agenda and that he is some sort of bottling spoofer.
 
I want to see good football at United again. And for me ten Hag potentially represents what I like as a football fan. He coaches a strong on the ball possession game as well as having the ability to implement a counter pressing game.

Poch in his career has been one dimensional in his approach, and apart from attempting to implement a counter pressing play style, there isn't much else. A high energy play style on it's own isn't enough anymore and if we're to challenge Klopp, Guardiola, Tuchel etc , then it would be better if we look to hire either ten Hag or Enrique who are both adept at coaching a strong possession game style, as well as implementing a strong off the ball game via pressing/counter pressing. Which is what our rivals are doing.

EtH, Enrique or Potter. All three coaches have shown the ability to be more rounded than Poch when it comes to controlling the game with and without possession.
 
Frank Grimes said:
I think the weirdest of all posters are those who are so completely anti Pochettino that they deride his every failing and have an excuse for all the good things he has done. I'm definitely team Ten Hag but some of the nonsense spouted on here about Pochettino make him sound like he is Sean Dyche or something. Bizarre and lacks balance.
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I think the point is that Pochettino is a known quality and yet people don't want him which is even more telling. ETH's hype is mostly hearsay. I've heard his football is great so I'm happy for us go for him. There's not much basis to it other than that.
 
amolbhatia50k said:
I think the point is that Pochettino is a known quality and yet people don't want him which is even more telling. ETH's hype is mostly hearsay. I've heard his football is great so I'm happy for us go for him. There's not much basis to it other than that.
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Its because everyone knows what poch will deliver and they don't like it. On the other hand ten hag is a wildcard who could either be the next coming or just another above-average manager, its the hope that he'll be the former that is appealing and even if the latter turns out to be true then also its an upgrade on the current regime and not much different in quality to poch. It does make sense to back ten hag.
 
Adnan said:
I want to see good football at United again. And for me ten Hag potentially represents what I like as a football fan. He coaches a strong on the ball possession game as well as having the ability to implement a counter pressing game.

Poch in his career has been one dimensional in his approach, and apart from attempting to implement a counter pressing play style, there isn't much else. A high energy play style on it's own isn't enough anymore and if we're to challenge Klopp, Guardiola, Tuchel etc , then it would be better if we look to hire either ten Hag or Enrique who are both adept at coaching a strong possession game style, as well as implementing a strong off the ball game via pressing/counter pressing. Which is what our rivals are doing.

EtH, Enrique or Potter. All three coaches have shown the ability to be more rounded than Poch when it comes to controlling the game with and without possession.
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I totally agree with you on what we need. And if ETH represents that then we should should go for him. On Pochettino, I thought he did really well at Spurs but a) tactically he's morr mechanical and functional than exciting what I believe we need and b) worried about his team's not so great winning mentality
 
Adnan said:
I want to see good football at United again. And for me ten Hag potentially represents what I like as a football fan. He coaches a strong on the ball possession game as well as having the ability to implement a counter pressing game.

Poch in his career has been one dimensional in his approach, and apart from attempting to implement a counter pressing play style, there isn't much else. A high energy play style on it's own isn't enough anymore and if we're to challenge Klopp, Guardiola, Tuchel etc , then it would be better if we look to hire either ten Hag or Enrique who are both adept at coaching a strong possession game style, as well as implementing a strong off the ball game via pressing/counter pressing. Which is what our rivals are doing.

EtH, Enrique or Potter. All three coaches have shown the ability to be more rounded than Poch when it comes to controlling the game with and without possession.
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I'm pretty sure PSG are one of the leading clubs in Europe for the number of passes they play per game. Close to City who are first, PSG second. Ajax weren't even top 8 on the list a few weeks ago.
 
amolbhatia50k said:
I totally agree with you on what we need. And if ETH represents that then we should should go for him. On Pochettino, I thought he did really well at Spurs but a) tactically he's morr mechanical and functional than exciting what I believe we need and b) worried about his team's not so great winning mentality
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Unless he (Poch) reinvents the wheel and adopts the possession game and hence adds a coach to his backroom staff, I think he's going to struggle. At Spurs he used midfielders like Wanyama and even shelled out £30m for Sissoko from Newcastle to implement his high energy game style. I can't see that working now.

The below article is about Jose Bordalas at Valencia, but it can also apply to Pochettino imo.

 
went out of the round of 16 against bemfica. not too hyped to have him as the next manager. poch does not seem to be a good option either. bringing in klopp will solve all the problems though
 
pocco said:
I'm pretty sure PSG are one of the leading clubs in Europe for the number of passes they play per game. Close to City who are first, PSG second. Ajax weren't even top 8 on the list a few weeks ago.
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Having a high number of passes doesn't mean one has mastered the art of positional play. Poch at PSG tried to adapt to the more technical players at PSG and the performances have been unsatisfactory on the ball according to regular observers of the team. Which really isn't a surprise tbf, because the team he inherited wasn't conducive to a high energy play style, and needed someone with a better understanding of positional play/zone control.

For me Graham Potter has more potential than Pochettino. Because Potter is showing the ability to implement both a positional game, as well as a counter pressing game.

I think we have to go for the more rounded coach personally and if we do end up going for Poch, them I hope he looks to bring in a coach who will help him transition into the hybrid styles that are being developed at our rivals.
 
Adnan said:
I want to see good football at United again. And for me ten Hag potentially represents what I like as a football fan. He coaches a strong on the ball possession game as well as having the ability to implement a counter pressing game.

Poch in his career has been one dimensional in his approach, and apart from attempting to implement a counter pressing play style, there isn't much else. A high energy play style on it's own isn't enough anymore and if we're to challenge Klopp, Guardiola, Tuchel etc , then it would be better if we look to hire either ten Hag or Enrique who are both adept at coaching a strong possession game style, as well as implementing a strong off the ball game via pressing/counter pressing. Which is what our rivals are doing.

EtH, Enrique or Potter. All three coaches have shown the ability to be more rounded than Poch when it comes to controlling the game with and without possession.
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Couldn't agree more.
 
United in sin said:
Maybe you should revisit the 2016/17 season when Spurs finished second with 86 points while scoring the most goals in the league (86) and conceding the least (26). They had three players score more than 20 goals that season (Son, Kane and Delle Ali) and played high octane attacking football that was not even matched by the eventual champions Chelsea
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So one season? His Spurs sides were boring mostly despite the reputation.
 
amolbhatia50k said:
I think the point is that Pochettino is a known quality and yet people don't want him which is even more telling. ETH's hype is mostly hearsay. I've heard his football is great so I'm happy for us go for him. There's not much basis to it other than that.
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Don't take this as I'm looking down on you, amol. You can watch Ajax games. So you don't have to just "heard".
I hope you catch his good games, because you're gonna like it a lot.
 
VidaRed said:
Goalkeeper screwed up.
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André Onana going at it again. I swear Ajax would be further off in this competition if it wasn't for that joker of a goalkeeper.

Adnan said:
I want to see good football at United again. And for me ten Hag potentially represents what I like as a football fan. He coaches a strong on the ball possession game as well as having the ability to implement a counter pressing game.

Poch in his career has been one dimensional in his approach, and apart from attempting to implement a counter pressing play style, there isn't much else. A high energy play style on it's own isn't enough anymore and if we're to challenge Klopp, Guardiola, Tuchel etc , then it would be better if we look to hire either ten Hag or Enrique who are both adept at coaching a strong possession game style, as well as implementing a strong off the ball game via pressing/counter pressing. Which is what our rivals are doing.

EtH, Enrique or Potter. All three coaches have shown the ability to be more rounded than Poch when it comes to controlling the game with and without possession.
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That sums it all, really.
 
Frank Grimes said:
I think the weirdest of all posters are those who are so completely anti Pochettino that they deride his every failing and have an excuse for all the good things he has done. I'm definitely team Ten Hag but some of the nonsense spouted on here about Pochettino make him sound like he is Sean Dyche or something. Bizarre and lacks balance.
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Thats what helps makes me doubt Ten Hag so much. The fact that so many of his supporters are so blind to anyone else and so quick to attack Poch
 
I m surprised there isn't much criticism of ETH losing to the third best team in Portugal and one of the weakest team in the round of 16. I don't think anyone expected Ajax to lose this tie, but somehow it happened. You could say that the goalkeeper made an error, but they were playing at home and considering eth was flouted for his amazing attacking play, it is quite incredible that he couldn't score at home against benefica. Watching the game, a lot of their chance was not even well constructed interplay, but moreso tactics from David moyes where they get to the byline and cross or shot from distance. At the highest stage and the most important game, it was a poor audition for a top club job. Many manager have off days, but I expected much better from one of his most important game of the season. I still think he will do a good job at a club like spurs or aletico madrid, but at a big club, there is much more needed than philosophy as Ralph is seeing at United. He also needs to know how to handle players ego, create a good working environment, establish an effective culture, know various sport science and technologocial techniques and have a good relationship with the player.

At the end of the game, it seems like there was a heated confrontation with one of his players. I wonder what that was about
 
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Amadaeus said:
I m surprised there isn't much criticism of ETH losing to the third best team in Portugal and one of the weakest team in the round of 16. I don't think anyone expected Ajax to lose this tie, but somehow it happened. You could say that the goalkeeper made an error, but they were playing at home and considering eth was flouted for his amazing attacking play, it is quite incredible that he couldn't score at home against benefica. Watching the game, a lot of their chance was not even well constructed interplay, but moreso tactics from David moyes where they get to the byline and cross or shot from distance. At the highest stage and the most important game, it was a poor audition for a top club job. Many manager have off days, but I expected much better from one of his most important game of the season. I still think he will do a good job at a club like spurs or aletico madrid, but at a big club, there is much more needed than philosophy as Ralph is seeing at United. He also needs to know how to handle players ego, create a good working environment, establish an effective culture, know various sport science and technologocial techniques and have a good relationship with the player.

At the end of the game, it seems like there was a heated confrontation with one of his players. I wonder what that was about
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is that the only game you watched Ajax play?
 
In Rainbows said:
So one season? His Spurs sides were boring mostly despite the reputation.
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That was his peak, but he finished in the top three for three seasons straight. They weren't boring. What's all this revisionism about? Kane , Son and Delle Ali were some of the most exciting forwards in the PL during his time there. England can thank him for believing in and developing a young Kane. Are you going to forget how exciting Christian Eriksen was under Pochettino as well? Kyle Walker and Trippier? Even Townsend had his best patch of his career at Spurs and looked very promising at one time. How about the rise of Danny Rose there? Pochetinno brought the best out young players. Toby Alderweireld was considered world class under his touteledge.

He also made Southampton very exciting before his time at Spurs, making the likes of Luke Shaw and Nathaniel Clyne two of the most coveted young English fullbacks at the time. Lallana, Jay Rodriguez and the average Ricky Lambert had their best time of their careers under him and earned unlikely international call ups. Why do you think Liverpool raided his Southampton squad? He promoted Calum Chambers, James Ward-Prawse and made Schneirdelin, Victor Wanyama and Lovren household names. His influence runs deeper than he gets credit for. That Southampton team was one of the most entertaining teams in England and he basically became England's defacto coach and talent scout while having them play brilliant football
 
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Get it done now. Give him 3 years.
Buy/sell whoever he wants.
Need a proper rebuild.
 
Vapor trail said:
I agree the biggest issue with Poch is not even coaching credentials but rather the mentality of his respective teams. Doesn't seem to have the cutting edge to be a determined winner.

Rio and Scholes made the astute point tonight that the most important element of the next United manager is to bring an aura of fear ensuring that the players are diligent and disciplined in training which will manifest in games. The fact there's leaks in the press of Poch being a preferred choice amongst the squad is a bad sign given how weak willed the team is.

An 'arm around the shoulder' manager should definitely be a distant idea given the first 11. Rather someone who'll turn up with a tracksuit, whistle and cones because the players are running the show at the moment. Dressing room can only be described as a circus. I don't think Poch does anything to shift this dynamic.
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We have seen how arm around the shoulder manager left us with this rotten mess of a squad. The players felt like bunch of entitled tits and there is no accountability at all. We need a strict manager who will kick these lot up in the arse. Conte would be perfect for us but alas.
 
Martial'sEmergingSmile said:
Obviously didn't see the match - assuming no United supporters did...but purely on the stats it seems to be a freak smash and grab from Benfica?

HnAyMNs.jpg
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Looked like when Pep loses 1-0 in the CL. They controlled the game but weren't good enough in the final 3rd and had 3-4 penalty shouts but none were actually pens, their set piece delivery was really poor, and Benfica only got the set piece after the ball bounced around after one of their goal kicks. Tiny defender (Timber) preferred for his quickness and ball playing ability physically overmatched against a proper 9 in Nunez (switched to the left once Yaremchuk came on).

Ajax weren't great on the ball and Berghuis was largely anonymous in midfield. The ball was consistently in the final 3rd and Benfica barely got into the Ajax penalty area, so overall it doesn't worry me in terms of ETH. That's all you can really ask for from a manager I think, to set the game up so it's played in the final 3rd of the other team and ask your defenders to handle a set piece or 2 and hope you get a moment of quality from one of your creative players.

You're probably not winning the CL with such a tiny back 3 because you have to play against quality
teams who can sit back and try to nick one, so there is maybe a bit of a worry that like with Pep at City, we'd have to spend a ton of money on defenders who can play this type of football but still be physically up for it, like City have in Diaz and Walker in particular.

In terms of possible signings, the DM Alvarez really stood out as the kind of calm on the ball but robust off of it type we could use and Gravenberch dribbled the ball quite well. Antony was disappointing; he changes directions really well, but not sure there's enough in the rest of his game to justify a huge fee.
 
KirkDuyt said:
3rd time in a row Ajax is eliminated in Europe by an inferior defensive team. No adaptability and no plan B.

I like Ten Hag's style of play, but like Van Gaal he will try to play a possession game without having the players to do it which will turn out the way United played under Van Gaal. It's the Dutch disease. There is only 1 proper way to play the game.
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On this analysis I’m more worried about the club not the manager. If we hire a manager who plays a certain way then expect him to shoehorn in previous transfer mistakes then we’ll get exactly what we deserve. If we go on to get EtH then we all know how he wants to play, in turn we need to form a squad in that image.
 
It's a testament to what a great job he's done that people deem it a failure for Ajax not to reach the last 8 of the CL
 
No time like the present. Dropping out of the CL represents the perfect opportunity to make a formal approach. Whether Ajax win the Eredivise or not is inconsequential by this point.
 
Sviken said:
Now there are better, up and coming managers out there
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Don’t care much about the up and coming factor. It’s very difficult to assess the quality of managers in backyard leagues. Appointing ETH is risky business. It’s like buying “talents” like DVB. ETH as assistant manager in United would’ve been perfect.

The step from Ajax to United is huge, and he should definitely get experience from one of the best leagues before he joins one of the big clubs. Experience from PL or the best leagues is an competitive advantage we can’t disregard when we talk about our next manager.
 
It doesn't matter that Ajax got knocked out. Their level of player isn't that great. Ten Hag put them on a great run but they were always likely to come unstuck, even against one of the lesser sides left in. He's had them punching well above their weight.
 
AFC NimbleThumb said:
On this analysis I’m more worried about the club not the manager. If we hire a manager who plays a certain way then expect him to shoehorn in previous transfer mistakes then we’ll get exactly what we deserve. If we go on to get EtH then we all know how he wants to play, in turn we need to form a squad in that image.
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If you give him money and time to build the squat to his liking he would be fantastic. He's dominating big teams with a relatively cheal team at Ajax. Imagine what he can do with Bruno instead of Berghuis and a real striker instead of Haller.

Though granted, Haller wasnt the problen with his 11 goals in 8 games.
 
Reading these threads makes you realize how some fans and football is basically and nonsensically commented. Dealing with people isn't about fear or arm around the shoulder whoever make that point should stay away from management.
 
JPRouve said:
Reading these threads makes you realize how some fans and football is basically and nonsensically commented. Dealing with people isn't about fear or arm around the shoulder whoever make that point should stay away from management.
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Thats what Rio, Scholes and Hargreaves were all saying yesterday wasnt it.

I agree with you by the way
 
VP89 said:
Thats what Rio, Scholes and Hargreaves were all saying yesterday wasnt it.

I agree with you by the way
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Yeah, a manager that "strikes fear" into players. When I read these kind of things I'm close to erupt, fear bring nervousness, it's a negative feeling that is more likely to stiffle people and affect negatively their actions. A good manager brings accountability, confidence and togetherness. And while I see what they are trying to convey, the fact that they talked about striking fear shows that they are clueless, they are terrible communicators and don't understand that what they felt wasn't fear of the manager but fear to disappoint the team, the manager and maybe lose their spot which is due to accountability.
 
JPRouve said:
Reading these threads makes you realize how some fans and football is basically and nonsensically commented. Dealing with people isn't about fear or arm around the shoulder whoever make that point should stay away from management.
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People love an oversimpliefied answer to a complex question. It's literally it's own body of research, it's never going to be as simple as that. Sure there are tenets, but it unravels extremely quickly when there is no deeper layer than that.
 
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