We literally beat City and Liverpool ffs
And Ole couldn't even beat fecking Villareal over 120 minutes.
Erik ten Hag | 2024/25
- Thread starter Cheimoon
- Start date
We literally beat City and Liverpool ffs
And Ole couldn't even beat fecking Villareal over 120 minutes.
Ugarte and Yoro both came from the French league and have never played under EtH before.
Not read any of those, might have look for later.
Carragher is incapable of outsmarting anyone, would be wary parroting the shite he spouts.
On Sunday he claimed INEOS “bottled it”, then completely failed to back it up.
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No. That is never the requirement. RVN can have no achievements in management, but as long as it is not illegal for him to take up that job, it can be done. This is not a machine operator job that it risks bringing the whole line down
Was it Coventry City we played in that final? Weird how we were such underdogs then.
I've gone through the entire first 2 pages of your recent postings, there's one post I've found with a list of names:
In bold is your list and " references to why their records are better", which is an extremely generous way of putting a single sentence that doesn't touch on any of their records. But I'm happy to go through the list.
Firstly, Nagelsmann I'd be over the moon with. But he's with the German national team. Do you genuinely expect us to be able to get him in now? The same goes for Emery, why would he leave Villa who are enjoying CL football? Frank is also in a position, and is much less enticing than the previous two mentioned. Do you honestly think they're immediately attainable? In the summer is much more feasible, which is what I've been advocating for.
Tuchel we've discussed already.
McKenna's managerial career is limited entirely to lower league experience, there's a huge gulf between the Ipswich job and the United one, surely you can acknowledge that? To me that would represent a humongous gamble, and I don't think that's worth it given we could go after much more accomplished candidates in the summer.
Amorim is an interesting one actually, I don't know too much about him but from what I read he has a style similar to what we're trying to achieve. Can you go into a bit more detail as to what makes him a good fit? And why he would be attainable immediately to replace Ten Hag?
Again I ask - who? Which accomplished candidate is likely to be available in the summer, who isn't right now?
I obviously wasn't talking legally, but it is a requirement for the decision to be rational. Unless you're suggesting that it's impossible to a worse job than Ten Hag, which is objectively false.
Our last caretaker manager took over after we were performing too poorly but at least had the famous "vibes", and left us an openly insubordinate dressing room with problems that took until this transfer window to purge. There's plenty that could go more wrong.
There’s an entire thread dedicated to discussing replacements for ten Hag: https://www.redcafe.net/threads/life-after-eth-—-the-next-united-manager.484577/page-11#post-32391871
Please use that for its purpose, especially so when going into depth about the subject matter.
Please use that for its purpose, especially so when going into depth about the subject matter.
Attainable, not available.
And I'd suggest we could make a pretty good case to most managers, given the project we can offer and the support of the new regime/structure. We won't get Pep or Ancelotti, but there's a really high upside in the United job for the person who can handle it, that's gonna be pretty hard to turn down. I imagine we could put together a very a good sales pitch to Nagelsmann (hopefully without the Woodward-esque reference to Disneyland that led to us missing out on Klopp!).
The transfer record isn't on Ten Hag, it's on Murtough and co. Casemiro's ludicrous wages are the reason we can't offload him for example, and the reason we wasted so much money on Antony is well documented.
If Nagelsmann is available early then I'd be happy for us to go after him, hopefully Ashworth is tapping him up as we speak.
If Maguire and AWB was on Ole then the transfers are on Ten Hag, they both had a veto and final say
Neither of those were purely on Ole though, Maguire in particular we could have had much cheaper a season earlier but for Woodward being silly.
The managers aren't the ones spending the money, and the people who have been have contributed heavily to our problems.
Winning a cup means very little if you have us playing piss poor football, no identity, no visible plan, stubborn/poor game management, zero charisma etc.
Should have been sacked before the summer and every day that is delayed, the hole we're digging for ourselves is getting deeper.
ETH has without any doubt managed us the worst since Fergie. Yes, even worse than Moyes.
That post match presser on Sunday is a new low when it comes to embarrassing and delusional moments in sports management.
I do agree with this. We weren't going to challenge at the very top level but we were a stable top 4 team (Solskjaer's still the only United manager to record back-to-back top 4 finishes post-Ferguson). We just weren't quite able to get over the line with winning a trophy. It still hurts to think about that final against Villarreal now.
We were definitely a more fluent team up to that point than we've ever been under Ten Hag. As you point out, the Ronaldo signing was a huge mistake which threw off the entire balance of the team and everything we had been working towards. Predictably so actually. I wouldn't be pining to bring him back but I can definitely look back on the Ole days far more fondly than I will for these last two and a bit years with Ten Hag.
"Maguire was my no1 priority target" - Solskjaer.
I don't know was under Ineos the same this summer (who called the shots) but Ole and Erik (under Arnold) had full autonomy for transfers. It has been said many times and it is nothing new.
The issue here is how damaging would another wasted season be to the club's finances and progression? If we aim, as per SJR timeframe, to be fighting for the title within three years can we really afford to let Ten Hag see out the season no matter what because we are waiting for the theoretical top manager who will be the knight in shining armor? We need to take action if form doesn't improve by the next international window, Ineos get a pass for dithering in the summer but now they need to be more decisive. We also need INEOS to appreciate that pride and reputational cost of making a U-turn on a terrible decision isn't worth the cost of another terrible season wasted on a failed manager.
I fully understand INEOS keeping him on at the time as much as I've been ETH out for 9 months or so. We had to sell a project to our incoming transfers, they needed some kind of assurance of the direction we're heading. But this can't be the same direction, and another season out of the CL is so detrimental to our finances and sponsorships. The ETH In crowd have to look at themselves in the mirror and say "ok, what's the line in the sand where I say it's time to part ways?".
If we get to December and we've lost the Carabao to some mid-table team Championship team, we somehow managed to place bottom half of our EL group, and we're languishing in 8th-12th in the table, do I still need to wait until the summer to get Tuchel on the phone?
Zidane and Del Bosque would then be classified as highly unqualified according to your logic. Yet we know that football success doesn't follow the linear reasoning you are attempting to apply here - we will never know but hindsight suggests that if we had kept Carrick after Ole there is a big chance that he'd have done better than Ragnick but because we got burnt by another decision on a caretaker we didn't pursue it.
There is a new wave of managerial talent emerging who are very exciting but would get no chance in an organization under you. Football isn't about recruiting an HR staffer, many unheralded people get chances at the highest level and perform above expectations. Erik was once such a guy and he has failed to capitalize on his big break.
December is too far, imo, to wait to make a change. We need to give the new guy ample time to put his methods across and get the team going, top four is usually reachable if we can put a run together and there is still the EL where we can challenge for a major trophy that earns us CL football. If we wait till Christmas the situation will be too far gone, a reasonable take is to see how he does in September and October but a more decisive one would be INEOS taking into consideration our form from the Carabao Cup, our performances in the Cup which showed that Erik has it in him to play compact, tactically flexible football but is too dogmatic to almost unprofessional levels in his methods that he'd risk morale damaging defeats against Liverpool just to force through a failing tactic, and sack him right now.
Make no mistake, I was ready for him to go Monday at the open of business. His post-match comments show he has lost the plot. He is placing his entire career on Ugarte saving the day---once he's up to match fitness. When will that be? By December, I could easily see us being 15 points off the top.
I think the international break is a perfect time to part ways. Gives a new manager plenty of time to get his desk organized while the team is gone.
Again you are assuming that the next manager has to be perfect, which is not the case or criteria.
Ineos (not me) can fire ETH, put RVN in place, remove him and get another manager, remove him and get another, until they are satisfied.
As long as Ineos (not me again) are confident of how they want the team to play and perform, what kind of players they want in the team, what kind of managers they want, they can fire managers who are not doing their jobs.
Brings in a bunch of ex ajax/dutch players…
Ten hag isn’t the
People like this have short memories. We were awful under Ole and we weren’t a stable team, it was always going to unravel and it did in spectacular style. Ole was one of the worst things to happen to this club in terms of management, arguably the worst manager we’ve ever had.
Not true. I mean you could gets some draws and keep your job at Fulham and Forest.
Besides it is not even in the same season.
Yeah exactly, it's a case of finding who is going to be the best fit but like you say we may have to go through a few in order to solve problem. Why not just give Ruud a chance as interim until the end of the season, gotta be better than the current situation surely
I think you made his point for him.
Precisely, with the New structure in place above the manager, that structure largely being responsible for transfers and playing philosophy, makes the roll of the manager quite different to years gone bye. The manager has far less responsibility and far less impact on the process if/when they need to be replaced. It'll be far less disruptive to replace managers quickly, until the right one is found.
The United structure also now makes the potential pool of managers significantly smaller, managers will have to accept diminished say in transfers and will have to suit the playing style demanded.
I was firmly ETH out even after we won the FA Cup. But many changed their opinion after the cup win. Unfortunately that includes Ineos Team.
I was in the opinion that last year injuries were excuses. After 2 years he can't even implement any style of play at all, injuries or not.
A season earlier was his highest point when it comes to hype, he was coming off a good World Cup and reports stated that Leicester wanted at least 75m£.
Yeah well, there's none better out there.
How can you even think to replace a manager of such a high standards...
fecking joke of a manager.
Why do these polls always gradually soften over the days?
Obviously it’s still a huge majority who would sack but every day it gets a few percent smaller
Do people wait a couple of days and then realise that they like the pain and want it again?
Obviously it’s still a huge majority who would sack but every day it gets a few percent smaller
Do people wait a couple of days and then realise that they like the pain and want it again?
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This time around it doesn't let you change your vote, so the swing this time is fully from new voters
The ‚no style of play‘ trope is tiring, we have a clear style of play.
We do absolutely have a squad that can get top four. But it is not a given. First we have to turn our form around, score goals, get confidence.
We do absolutely have a squad that can get top four. But it is not a given. First we have to turn our form around, score goals, get confidence.
Just hope we can find someone from that pool of managers very soon who suits the playing style that INEOS are looking to implement
Yeah people are confusing 'no style of play' with what is simply a bad plan. A crap plan is still a plan.
EtH could be doing much better if he reverted to the pragmatism of his first season but he's stubborn and doesn't want to do that. It will cost him his job.
Yet if whoever is in charge say sorry TH/Ole etc the players you want are too much, then everyone says it’s not the managers fault they are not being backed. The managers can’t keep hiding behind it’s not my fault that …. happened
Which is not working or is being dismantled easily. But we are trying to do the same thing again and see if it works in the next game.
Reminds me of a quote about the definition of insanity.
What is the style of play? I can’t personally see one