Erik ten Hag | 2024/25 | Sacked

[Werd.]

We're definitely in the twilight zone now, surreal what's going on here. Typically, such a shit show and it's us again. It's funny in a way, we airways think we might have found a solution to our issues, such as hiring Rangnick as consultant, some thought Murtough and Fletcher were going to sort it, then hiring ETH, then INEOS. It's all turned to absolute shit, and there's worrying signs already for INEOS, though the jury is still out there.

But, in typical fashion you can easily see that being yet another false dawn. That is the worst of the lot if that happens though, they're not going anywhere anytime soon. We've got to hope they get it right eventually, but it's all comically bad when you think about it.

Mate, interested in your thoughts in regards to how things would have turned out for us in the transfer market/squad composition had Ralf been retained as a consultant as agreed originally? Same shitshow/slight improvement?

 

[KiD MoYeS]

If this sort of stuff is being leaked then we're already there.

More than likely. It will be interesting to see do we get any response from the players this week, I think that will be telling. If we get the same level of a nothing performance to last weekend then it is fair to say the manager has definitely lost the dressing room and needs to be removed.

 

[Robbie Boy]

But, in typical fashion you can easily see that being yet another false dawn. That is the worst of the lot if that happens though, they're not going anywhere anytime soon. We've got to hope they get it right eventually, but it's all comically bad when you think about it.

This is the far bigger issue. ETH will eventually be sacked, it'll be far too late, but it'll inevitably happen. INEOS are here for the long haul, and if they prove to be incompetent, we're absolutely fecked in both the short and long term. It's early days and things may start to look better for them, but right now, it's fair to say they've made some very poor calls.

 

[Robbie Boy]

His ego needs popping

Would you say that we need to burst his bubble?

 

[RiqCantona]

Ok, I get that we won a couple of "trophies" after 4-5 years. But that should be a start, right? He can't keep on saying that to justify his failures. Obviously, its more important for us to start challenging for the title and playing in the UCL. Winning a trophy and finishing 8th means jack S#*t, if he keeps repeating that. The only trophy worth winning is the Europa this season.

 

[Freak]

Imagine how infuriating it must be if you are a coach to watch the players go out and be unable to make a 5 yard pass

There are always two sides - yes our players might be shit but is it also because the coach doesn’t train them to play quick crisp passing in training under pressure to simulate a real game? As fans we don’t know wtf goes on in training but from watching our games it seems like nothing much.

 

[SuperiorXI]

There are always two sides - yes our players might be shit but is it also because the coach doesn’t train them to play quick crisp passing in training under pressure to simulate a real game? As fans we don’t know wtf goes on in training but from watching our games it seems like nothing much.

This is not new though, I remember as far back as Fergie when we had the "zombie passing". Makes you wonder what goes on in training like you say.

 

[thisisnottaken1]

Ok, I get that we won a couple of "trophies" after 4-5 years. But that should be a start, right? He can't keep on saying that to justify his failures. Obviously, its more important for us to start challenging for the title and playing in the UCL. Winning a trophy and finishing 8th means jack S#*t, if he keeps repeating that. The only trophy worth winning is the Europa this season.

Exactly. It’s our only realistic way of getting Champions League football for next season.

 

[CraftySoAndSo]

Winning trophies is tight!

It's super easy, barely an inconvenience.

 

[Fallon d'Floor]

Haven't posted since May. Had a lot going on.

I just knew they'd bottle it and keep him after winning The FA Cup.

The amount of delusional fans who bought the excuses last season. Infuriating. Even worse, some say he's nice guy or a gentleman.

It's been posted many times, but people always seem to forget his questionable morals i.e. Overmars, Promes, Greenwood, etc. He's not a nice guy at all.

I fully expect him to take 3-4 points from the next 2 games, which will keep him in a job. I have zero faith in INEOS. He'll probably see out the season and then part ways next summer.

 

[troylocker]

There will be no protests. We are better than that, we are not a sacking club and we stand by our manager.

I know here an overwhelming majority is in favor of sacking him but looking at our sub-reddits it's nowhere near as dominant. Many are blaming players for letting another manager down, many are blaming INEOS for not bringing him the players he needed and generally letting him down with signings/coaches, it's not all black and white. I'd not be surprised if matchgoing fans are 50/50 or even tilted pro-ETH.

It was basically 80/20 to him staying last year, remember. It's only 6 league games into new season and it's not even like we are much worse than we were last year - and that season 80% seemed completely happy with.

It wasn't.

It was 80/20 sack around 12/5
It was 52/48 keep after the cup final 12 days later.

Should have been sacked midseason or at least at the end of last season and we should have already had his replacement ready before the cup final (because the result in a 1 off match should be irrelevant in regards to keeping him or not). This "let's take it one or two games at the time" crap must end and will never be the right answer. We've been consistantly terrible for 19 months now and we are regressing a bit every day this man's at the wheel.

Do you really think that 80% of our fans were "completely happy" with last season? The worst league season since the 1980's, and going by our performances it should have been worse, much worse. Worst manager we've had post WW2.

 

[Skills]

I'm a WUM but I've also been at least partially right about his status here. I don't know what it is, can only guess it's because despite having no charisma and no discernible character he's actually a pretty smooth talker who gives away an impression of someone who knows what he's doing. He will have laid out a plan, a long term plan, and have convinced INEOS that things will work out eventually. I definitely don't hold out any hope of him being dismissed this season but will of course be delighted if it happens.

Don't even think it's even that. It's a purely us problem.

You could put a chimpanzee in the managers seat at this club, and it would draw the same sort of fanaticism.

 

[Djemba-Djemba]

The issue is that Ole finished second the season before. In hindsight, we should have departed at that point and moved on, given he lost to an inferior Villareal side in the EL Final and Xg had us in 4th or 5th, not second, which should have set alarm bells off.

However, given all that, it wasn't crazy to keep him on as 2nd place and a EL Final at the time, was met with positivity. But, once results went south (not for the first time in his tenure, mind) he was sacked relatively soon after - though obviously not soon enough.

ETH is like a cat with 9 lives: he would have been booted last season had it not been for the takeover. Then, INEOS clearly decided he wasn't for them and interviewed other candidates, but allegedly Tuchel turned us down. I mean, the reality is, that things have actually been on the slide since we won the LC against Newcastle. Tottenham wasn't some "turning point" - it's literally a continuation of the shite we've seen for a long time now. He should have been sacked a couple of times over by now, but yet he's still here. At least Ole and Jose got the boot relatively soon after things went to shit, but ETH seems immune to that.

For anyone who's ever watched Pitch Meetings - all I think about is ETH being asked why he hasn't been sacked yet and coming out with "actually it's super easy, barely an inconvenience". Although @Sarni has been a massive wum, I'm starting to see why he thinks ETH is immune to being sacked.

Yeah if you look back, Ole and Mourinho both finished 2nd and then both really should have been sacked the summer after finishing 2nd. Mourinho should have gone in the summer of 2018 and Ole should have gone in the summer of 2021.

Ole and Mourinho both only managed a few weeks of really poor performances, awful results and us being stuck in mid table before they were sacked. ETH has basically managed 18 months of really poor performances, awful results and being stuck in mid table and he still hasn't been sacked yet. Even by our standards, we always give failing managers too much time, it's ridiculous ETH is still here.

 

[Revan]

Current projection with him in charge is 12th and below. Do you honestly think any sane management structure will let United hover above the relegation zone for that long? There will be protests if this current way of playing continues for much longer.

Since when did that matter? We were fecking shit last season too and he got an 1 year contract extension.

United fans will never protest against the manager. He can relegate us, relegate us again, and then relegate us again, and Old Trafford will still sing his name.

 

[Skills]

Yeah if you look back, Ole and Mourinho both finished 2nd and then both really should have been sacked the summer after finishing 2nd. Mourinho should have gone in the summer of 2018 and Ole should have gone in the summer of 2021.

Ole and Mourinho both only managed a few weeks of really poor performances, awful results and us being stuck in mid table before they were sacked. ETH has basically managed 18 months of really poor performances, awful results and being stuck in mid table and he still hasn't been sacked yet. Even by our standards, we always give failing managers too much time, it's ridiculous ETH is still here.

I would've sacked Mourinho after Seville. And I wouldn't have even let Solskjaer see out the season he finished second and got the Europa League final - he should've gone as soon as he fecked up the CL group stages.

Him going onto lose that Europa League final was no achievement - the only reason we were in the Europa League that season was because of that disgraceful performance in the CL group stages.

 

[McGrathsipan]

Stop a CB dribbling our whole defence

that kind of thing is the dream

 

[JPRouve]

This is a very valid point. We have been terribly run for a long time now, except for Fergie's genius could mask it. When he left, the shoddy house of cards crumbled, and it exposed just how badly we are run as an organisation.

However, I feel we've also appointed poorly, for the most part. The weird fascination with failed managers from our own fanbase is absolutely bonkers, and it's something I'll never understand. We've done feck all in the post-Fergie era barring some cups and two second place finishes. One of those second place finishes (Ole's) had us at an Xg of 66 points, which would have had us 4th (2 points behind Leeds' Xg). Yet, still, these sorts of things are still celebrated by some of our fanbase.

I grew up through the good times under Fergie, and what I've seen over the past 11 years has been nothing short of appalling. We've squandered 100's of millions, bought absolutely terribly, appointed poor managers etc. I find all of our previous ex-managers tenures inexcusable, yet some seem to genuinely believe that some done a good job. I think the standards across the fanbase and the club is at absolute rock bottom, and I have little faith in our immediate future. INEOS were supposed to be this big beacon of hope who would bring in the "best in class" but the early signs aren't promising, in that respect.

I remember Phillipe Auclair describing how SAF and Wenger worked. It's not that the club was terribly run per se, it was very well run but the Football side was run by SAF and it was the correct approach. The issue is that the moment SAF left, the club needed to completely change the way it operated and it's something that needed to be anticipated but Gill didn't, he pushed for a SAF-lite in Moyes which was almost guaranteed to fail because the model that United followed is rarely successful and rarely applied since there isn't many SAFs and Wengers.

 

[Fallon d'Floor]

I would've sacked Mourinho after Seville. And I wouldn't have even let Solskjaer see out the season he finished second and got the Europa League final - he should've gone as soon as he fecked up the CL group stages.

Him going onto lose that Europa League final was no achievement - the only reason we were in the Europa League that season was because of that disgraceful performance in the CL group stages.

Ole never actually made it out of a CL group. Carrick was the one who secured 3 points vs Villarreal, which was enough to progress.

Between Ole and ten Hag, I've become truly depressed. I wanted both out a long time before the majority did. I didn't rate Ole at all, but it was better than this.

ten Hag was an inch away from Coventry sending us home. Despite a horrific 19 months since Newcastle, he has that to cling onto. It's been really bad for a long time.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

He keeps giving speaking to the media when we think he’s a dead man walking which makes me think he’s definitely not one. It happened last season too when he seemed toast.

 

[Sarni]

This is true to be fair, but also feels like we are fast approaching a breakdown in relationship between manager and players again.

Yessss, was waiting for this. It's basically all these fecking players who are making errors and are unable to finish all the amazing chances ETH creates for them. It's not setup, it's purely players.

 

[erikcred]

It's one thing to analyze and explain what's happening tactically (thinking of the allegedly very long analysis sessions he is doing).
It's another thing to break it down into small and simple orders which players can follow while out of breath and full of adrenaline during a match.

Yes, these are two different things. How do we know he's decent at either? The length of the analysis sessions says nothing.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

We’ve enabled this. The club have over indulged him to the extent that he feels he’s above any accountability. To bleat on about your past successes after such an embarrassing defeat is in such poor taste.

Get rid asap

 

[stefan92]

Yes, these are two different things. How do we know he's decent at either? The length of the analysis sessions says nothing.

I assume he is due to a lot of reports mentioning his tactical knowledge. I don't think this is all just briefings by the club or his agent, I do think that there is a genuine reason for these reports from a lot of people (like here from McCarthy).

On the other hand we see how bad everything looks on the pitch, so this is why I think he has to show this tactical knowledge more in analysis than in actual preparation.

 

[Leg-End]

"8 trophies for me heh, respect, heh, respect."

 

[Zlatanator]

Now we might go on a winning streak for a month or so but we will be followed by another slump, big defeats. Rinse and repeat

 

[leontas]

This drivel again. Fluking his way to an FA Cup win has given him this ammunition. The fact that he seems to take no responsibility for the team performances and continues to talk about past successes and 'sticking to the plan' are huge red flags for me. We finished 8th last season and we're currently sitting at 13th with the worst GD across all the top 13 teams.

I've seen little evidence from the last 2 years that he will be able to turn this around - outside of a brief period before our League Cup win, we've never been able to go on a run of form. So we really shouldn't be deciding on whether to keep him or not based on the performance in the next 2 games but rather look at his body of work over the entirety of his tenure.

I really hope INEOS are just waiting for the international break to part ways because the decision should have already been made after that Spurs game.

 

[Pep Guard Yolo]

It's becoming more and more clear that he suffers from some kind of delusion. To come out with that shit after being spanked at home by Spurs with almost a full squad available is plain awful.

You’re only as good as your last result. You can’t keep dining out on past glories. That was yesterday, we live in today. What’s going on today? That’s all that matters.

 

[romufc]

For feck sake, stop gloating over cups when your team is getting bullied week in week out in the league.

Well done, you have won 2 cups, props for that but he has also been embarrassed in the 2 biggest competitions, CL and PL. Wigan have won the FA cup and been relegated in the same season, it doesn't mean the team or coach is good.

 

[Fallon d'Floor]

Yessss, was waiting for this. It's basically all these fecking players who are making errors and are unable to finish all the amazing chances ETH creates for them. It's not setup, it's purely players.

People seem to ignore that we are also giving up lots of "big chances" also.

Fulham - 0
Brighton - 2
Liverpool - 6
Southampton - 3
Palace - 3
Twente - 2
Spurs - 9 (3 big chances by HT)

Fulham is the only decent team United have beaten this season. And even they messed up multiple chances to create better openings. They've improved since then.

 

[Robbie Boy]

Him going onto lose that Europa League final was no achievement.

You're looking at this all wrong.

The corporate line is "one penalty kick away from winning a European Cup" and "2nd place". If you say it like that, it leaves the ambiguity as to what competition it actually was. Then, you have to ignore how Xg had us 4h or 5th in the league, and how Maguire and AWB combined cost more than the whole Villareal team.

 

[CraftySoAndSo]

He came out with these types of statements before the cup final as well when it looked like he was gonna get the sack. I think it's just him doing his own PR since the media have completely turned on him, trying to paint himself in a good light for future clubs after he gets sacked here.

 

[KiD MoYeS]

I was only remembering Ferguson's words after either the 2009 or 2011 Champions League final loss to Barcelona. Something to the effect of nobody has ever given Man Utd a beating like that, he was right at the time. Now it happens every other week and the manager is probably the biggest contribution to the fact. He will be gone soon, he's just not good enough despite the cup wins.

 

[Robbie Boy]

I remember Phillipe Auclair describing how SAF and Wenger worked. It's not that the club was terribly run per se, it was very well run but the Football side was run by SAF and it was the correct approach. The issue is that the moment SAF left, the club needed to completely change the way it operated and it's something that needed to be anticpated but Gill didn't, he pushed for a SAF-lite in Moyes which was almost guaranteed to fail because the model that United followed is rarely successful and rarely applied since there isn't many SAFs and Wengers.

Very good point.

 

[Robbie Boy]

I was only remembering Ferguson's words after either the 2009 or 2011 Champions League final loss to Barcelona. Something to the effect of nobody has ever given Man Utd a beating like that, he was right at the time. Now it happens every other week and the manager is probably the biggest contribution to the fact. He will be gone soon, he's just not good enough despite the cup wins.

Remember back in the good times being fecking fuming for a week when we lost? Now I just have pure apathy.

 

[Amsterdam Devil]

Imagine how infuriating it must be if you are a coach to watch the players go out and be unable to make a 5 yard pass

Try coaching them and give them a system that works. Those players weren’t shit before they came here and most of them were more than capable of giving 5 yard passes. What changed?

 

[stefan92]

You're looking at this all wrong. The corporate line is "one penalty kick away from winning a European Cup" and "2nd place". If you say it like that it leaves that ambiguity as to what competition it actually was. Then you have to ignore how Xg had us 4h or 5th in the league and how Maguire and AWB combined cost more than the whole Villareal team.

Both are valid points of view. After all I think the position in the league and the generally still positive atmosphere justified keeping Ole in the job after the CL exit and giving him a chance to prove himself further. But as you say, in the end it came down to not winning the "second chance cup" in Europe and not being able to get the team to perform on a level that raised hopes for next season. Letting him go after the EL final would have been an absolutely understandable and probably sensible move.

 

[pcaming]

Imagine how infuriating it must be if you are a coach to watch the players go out and be unable to make a 5 yard pass

Well that is his responsibility.

We were bad at passing before him, and we are still bad at passing now. Maybe more time should be invested into passing during training.

Maybe also, it has something to do with not signing midfielders known for their passing except the one with a defective heart, and on his last legs...

Maybe also don't play a system that exposes the weak passing nature of your players...

 

[thisisnottaken1]

I would've sacked Mourinho after Seville. And I wouldn't have even let Solskjaer see out the season he finished second and got the Europa League final - he should've gone as soon as he fecked up the CL group stages.

Him going onto lose that Europa League final was no achievement - the only reason we were in the Europa League that season was because of that disgraceful performance in the CL group stages.

Exactly. Mourinho and Solskjær should have been sacked way earlier. Similarly, LvG should have been shown the door after that horrible December 2015 and Moyes should have lost his job after those back to back home losses to Everton and Newcastle. Ten Hag should have been sacked after the Brighton home loss in September last year, and Rangnick, despite being an interim, should have been replaced after the 1-0 home loss to Wolves.

 

[Born2Lose]

As egotistical as Mourinho, as awkward as Moyes and as naive as Ole.

 

[Fallon d'Floor]

For feck sake, stop gloating over cups when your team is getting bullied week in week out in the league.

Well done, you have won 2 cups, props for that but he has also been embarrassed in the 2 biggest competitions, CL and PL. Wigan have won the FA cup and been relegated in the same season, it doesn't mean the team or coach is good.

Those two cups account for just 12 of his 123 games in charge. The League Cup run was as favourable as you could get. Even avoided having to plan an Arsenal/City/Liverpool in the final.

Plenty of average/failed managers have won cups or reached finals:

Juande Ramos 07/08 - Sacked a few months later
Ronald Koeman 07/08 - Sacked weeks later
Kenny Dalglish 11/12 - Reached two cups finals and won 1 of them, yet sacked
Roberto Di Matteo 11/12 - Sacked a few months after winning The CL
Roberto Martínez 12/13 - Relegated with Wigan despite winning The FA Cup