Exactly
Erik ten Hag | 2024/25 | Sacked
- Thread starter Cheimoon
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Given that Erik walked into an absolute circus, given everything he's had to contend with in little over two years at the club, I'd argue that delivering three cup finals, two trophies and a third placed finish during that period represents a respectable return. Here's hoping people can hold their nerve, understand that any gains made will be both incremental and hard earned and get behind the man.
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That's already happened.
I don’t think anyone is expecting miracles. I think people just want a clear, attacking and defined way of playing on the ball, with chances created and a consistent way to break down defences.
Going back to Ange, he hasn’t done anything miraculous but Spurs fans are in love with him. Why? Because he took a squad that played some of the most crap and defensive football under Jose and Conte and turned them quickly into a hyper attacking coherent unit.
The best managers aren’t too concerned with player turnover. It’s their job to improve what they have. Once they’ve done that, then yes, investment in the squad is needed to step up a level.
I think Ten Hag has gotten very lucky. He completely skipped the first step!
We finished 8th in the league, bottom of a weak Champions League group and are yet to develop any identifiable style of play. What miracles are being expected exactly?
These are basic expectations for any manager at this level. We went from finishing 3rd in the manager's first season to 8th after another year of working with the same players and spending nearly £200m on new players who were supposed to improve the team. Where is the progression?
Yeah people 'believe' whatever backs up their viewpoint. Anyone looking for anything more than injury updates from a presser is living in an alternate reality.
Refusal to acknowledge the need for improvement is not doing this, especially when you double down in the way that he did. It was a spiky response.
Nobody has implemented a clear style then shipped out 10 players. Nobody. You have to ship out the players first. To win two trophies while doing that is superb. Slipping to 8th, not so great. But so much has changed around him since he arrived. It's been nuts.
Please prove that you dare to play football against better teams. At the very least when you're on home turf.
Have you not seen the transfers !??
How is changing so many players not acknowledging the need for improvement?
Christ on a bike.
Managers will be looking at what is the best way to navigate/answer a question , for the club , for the players , for the team and for themselves. That involves discretion/diplomacy at times and it involves lieing when it suits. I don’t even know the interview you are referring to but it still doesn’t matter.
As for giving Spikey responses, are you too young to of ever seen some of Fergusons interviews? Have you even seen some of Peps or Klopps interviews? Managers being spikey with media happens all the time.
As was already highlighted earlier in the thread, he wanted to keep McTominay and Amrabat on and needed convincing on Ugarte. Those aren't the actions of the man who acknowledges the need for improvement.
He has blamed everything on injuries and clearly feels vindicated in that as he sits there talking of his successes of winning two domestic cups in two seasons. Meanwhile, he has produced our worst ever Premier League and Champions League finishes. We finished on negative goal difference last season
Getting tetchy in the press when pushed on the need for improvement with that context sends a terrible message.It’s funny that people keep mentioning Ange while failing or refusing to acknowledge that Spurs spent close to 250m€ last year and brought 10 new players in.
But yeah he implemented a style quickly with no money spent on the squad whatsoever and didn’t get lucky in the first half of the season and they didn’t only win 2 two games in their last 2 months in the League.
Not defending Ten Hag but people are always thinking the grass is greener elsewhere when it’s factually way more nuanced.
All coaches spend a lot of money, all coaches win and lose games. Only City, Liverpool and Arsenal play regular « attacking » football with success
You can afford to be spiky when you are producing. Football is a results business and those managers all earned the right due to their results.
As I mentioned in my previous post, Ten Hag produced our worst ever Premier League and Champions League finishes last season. The scrutiny is very much warranted.
Manager plagued with injuries wants a bigger squad ! What a bastard.
...of players who have proven they aren't good enough to play for this club? Yeah, nice one.The odd thing about the whining regarding ETH is that there are plenty of valid criticisms to be made.
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The results, the performances and not meeting targets. That’s fair game. “Media interviews” don’t matter a sh^t.
The results, the performances and not meeting targets. That’s fair game. “Media interviews” don’t matter a sh^t.
Scott scored 10 goals from midfield last year, is an academy graduate, and players like that can be part of good squads. He's a limited player who I wouldn't advocate signing for money but to have him kept is not the damning or controversial opinion you are desperately trying to make it out to be.
Expecting a Manchester United manager to finish higher than 8th, with a better GD then -1, whilst playing some good football along the way, is hardly expecting miracles
According to the Athletic, he wasn't willing to let McTominay go for Ugarte, and wanted to just sign Amrabat instead. He needed convincing by the new guys.
Am I glad this guy isn't in charge of that anymore.
If this is true than I have started to again respect towards INEOS and our football structure. Not listening to him when it comes to squad building is the first step in the right direction.
Yes. As I said, finishing 8th was quite bad.
The subsequent transfer window shows the club accepts the playing squad was a huge factor.
Its all good downplaying press conferences, we get that they're just something they need to do and that nothing interesting is ever really discussed. However, it is also our only opportunity to really hear our coach speak, get a feel for what he wants and how he views things. That is only normal when we he does such questionable things as a coach. But when he doubles down on what he's doing with such belief, and his whole persona is so off, it is only normal that people will take notice.
You can say he's trying to just steer the narrative etc, but if that's the case then he's doing a terrible job. These press conferences are a metaphorical "tap in", get in there, answer a few questions and get out. But he seems to spark more fires every time he speaks.
You can say he's trying to just steer the narrative etc, but if that's the case then he's doing a terrible job. These press conferences are a metaphorical "tap in", get in there, answer a few questions and get out. But he seems to spark more fires every time he speaks.
Maybe that's what he meant with the best transitional team in the world. We are always in transition.
I was being stupid ironic as I am rather frustrated with ETH and his lack of improvement.
Will his luck ever change? Given how it seems to go, I can see us surprising absolutely everyone by taking it to LFC, controlling the match, creating numerous good chances which all go begging and then concede a 98th minute corner to VVD after 4 minutes of added time where supposed to be added, when it clearly went out off a Pool player.
I would be very surprised if we took the game to Liverpool and controlled the game.
Pretty sure it'll be a cagey game. I could see us struggling to keep the ball in the 2nd half after our players tire from the press we'll likely start the game with.
The moment he loses his luck he’ll be gone from a club way too big for his shoes
100%
Addressing the need to improve the squad is the right course of action.
This season though, EtH has to show something different or he will be the problem to be addressed.
Agreed. The signs are there are other adults in the room to manage the mess now, so ETH has to get it right on the pitch.
I am starting to think he's a bit thick.
I said it in Ugarte thread, I don't get the fuss why posters see it as an issue that EtH wanted to keep McTominay or sign Amarabat, a manager always prefers to work with known entities, City just signed Gundogan and Pep was obviously happy about it because he worked with him, Arteta was happy to sign players like Jesus and Zinchenco and Sterling as well because he knows them.
And it's normal for a competent football structure to target the right profile of a player that would suit the style they envision and it's normal for the football structure to convince a manager that a targetted player is the best option available, that's is how it's supposed to work, a managers rarely make a good judge of player's quality simply because they don't have the time to review and analyze a player's scouting report, watch videos and whatnot, hence why the need for a team (Recruitment) to do the heavy lifting in scouting players.
For me, EtHs job is to manage the availabile squad to him, coach the team and implement a playing style and win games, I'll judge him on that alone, I couldn't care less what he wanted to do (keeping McTominay) or that he needed convincing about a player (Ugarte).
And it's normal for a competent football structure to target the right profile of a player that would suit the style they envision and it's normal for the football structure to convince a manager that a targetted player is the best option available, that's is how it's supposed to work, a managers rarely make a good judge of player's quality simply because they don't have the time to review and analyze a player's scouting report, watch videos and whatnot, hence why the need for a team (Recruitment) to do the heavy lifting in scouting players.
For me, EtHs job is to manage the availabile squad to him, coach the team and implement a playing style and win games, I'll judge him on that alone, I couldn't care less what he wanted to do (keeping McTominay) or that he needed convincing about a player (Ugarte).
McTominay made his debut for the club 7 years ago and 10 goals in all competitions was his most productive season for us. But they also came in the same season where our midfield was probably the most unbalanced I've ever seen it.
We needed to redress that balance this summer. Keeping McTominay when we already have multiple players capable of playing the advanced 8/10 roles wouldn't have been beneficial for us. Factor in his age, contract situation, limitations as a player and the PSR rules incentivising selling academy players; it was an open goal to sell him.
McTominay seems like a likeable character and I wish him well at Napoli but he wasn't good enough to be playing regular football at United. This isn't only about Ten Hag's stance on McTominay, there are numerous judgements that have been extremely poor from him.
That includes his tactical set-up which has produced horrible results that are unbecoming of this football club, both individually (humiliating results like the 7-0 against Liverpool) and collectively (8th place league finish, bottom of the Champions League group, negative goal difference). We're over two years into the project, we've spent a feck tonne of money, brought in a new structure to support the manager and it's still highly contestable whether we will even finish in the top 4 at the end of this season. I want higher standards than that.
I have said many times, based on talent, he's not good enough and not the sort of player I like.
But to say he wouldn't be an asset in any shape or form and to harangue a manager for disagreeing is just needless reaching. The manager was just lamenting that sales like this are more because the financial regulations force their hand.
Like I said, ETH has his faults, wanting the option of retaining a squad player who scored 10 goals to come off the bench is not one of them.
We pride ourselves on the academy players being in the squad and that's often about more than just on field attributes.
Just watched the second part of the press conferences: Erik is prickly indeed. So is every other top manager in the PL, none of them are humble.
The media has been abu and atrocious so it‘s good 10Hag is having a go at them. He called Shearer stupid and he‘s not wrong.
I‘m reminded of that Howson rant against the media that was posted here a few days ago.
We‘ve had two games, looked more structured than last season so the negativity on here is jumping the gun.
I see precious little discussion about actual performance in here. If we win against Pool, a lot of people are going to be disappointed again which is mental.
The media has been abu and atrocious so it‘s good 10Hag is having a go at them. He called Shearer stupid and he‘s not wrong.
I‘m reminded of that Howson rant against the media that was posted here a few days ago.
We‘ve had two games, looked more structured than last season so the negativity on here is jumping the gun.
I see precious little discussion about actual performance in here. If we win against Pool, a lot of people are going to be disappointed again which is mental.
How what seems to go? What is this based on?
Aye the idea he owes the media anything but a snarl is wild.
Add to that people who get annoyed when he even tries to defend himself. I prefer a United manager taking a hostile approach to media because he’s United manager and the media are NO FRIENDS of United.
The media’s job is to get a story or make a story out of what a manager says. That includes twisting what he says out of context so fans of rivals and fans of United who want to be angry , can get animated about it.
Makes me think of that southpark episode mocking wrestling where the story arcs become more important then the actual sport.
Yes, we are all wounded when a manager is 'prickly'. The monster.
One bad season he won the FA cup in. Seems rather important.
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