Erik ten Hag | 2024/25 | Sacked

Erik ten Hag

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glazed said:
Well yes but last season we pressed regardless of that. ETH has picked up some Wembley pragmatism it seems. We were told that the price of backsliding would be that we would never get where we are going. That's the concern. I'm not ETH in because he wins games. He doesn't. I support him because he's building towards a better style of play.
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This is sort of performance we didn't see last season. There were games where it looked like they just had to control the flow of the game and see it out. But they'd find a way to feck it up and end up throwing away a game and making it a total scramble. Like the Coventry game. Now, for me, the absence of Casemiro in midfield today was part of the reason for that, he's too loose in possession and has a tendency to go walkabout. Mainoo and Eriksen just kept the midfield play simple for the most part and controlled the game once it settled down.

Remains to be seen if this was a one off or it will get better, but I wouldn’t mind a few more wins like this to build confidence and team spirit.
 
VP89 said:
Yeah let's also ignore zirkzee failed to put away a tap in before too
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We deserved to win the game, but we fell way below an acceptable standard for 30 minutes. We have to raise our floor level.
 
NLunited said:
We deserved to win the game, but we fell way below an acceptable standard for 30 minutes. We have to raise our floor level.
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We always start slow. We need to pray we don’t concede in the first half an hour of games. We usually grow into games.
 
Brilliant result for him today. Started really shaky but at the end it was comfortable. Still not convinced but really happy with today. Harder tests coming and then we’d know where we stand.
 
Nothing I’ve seen in the Southampton game suggests that ETH is the right manager for us. Whilst we won convincingly in the end, Southampton’s style of play was more identifiable particularly when not in possession relative to us. We still look like a bunch of players thrown together and asked to conjure a bit of magic.
 
NLunited said:
We deserved to win the game, but we fell way below an acceptable standard for 30 minutes. We have to raise our floor level.
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I don't think it was a 30 minute duration. Southampton weirdly have dominated possession against other sides before today in the PL and it was even for a good-ish portion of the first half. There was a 10-15 minute period we were ponderous and invited that high pressure on, with Dalot being atrocious in that span too. Ten Hag even got hold of two of his midfielders in Eriksen and Mainoo and told them to be tighter in spaces (According to Joe Cole who wasnt sat far from the dugout).
Valencia Shin Crosses said:
I said I wasn’t sure how much credit he deserved either way considering how the game played out
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If Zirkzee scores his tap in I think we coast even earlier in the game. If they score the penalty who knows. We had tricky 15-20 away from home but broadly dominated outside of that whilst rotating injuries at the back.
 
VP89 said:
I'm convinced that there are a good handful who consider a convincing win for our club as a bittersweet moment.
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I'm convinced if we'd taken all the good chances today they'd still be fecking moaning about something
 
GreatDane said:
Thanks for taking us into averageness, we used to be big you know.
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If anything, being big and having a lot of international players is the cause of disruption to preseason, impacting fitness, team cohesion and match sharpness..

But yes, miss you with that shit, the manager and players are paid money and therefore you don't want excuses. Very rational
 
Drainy said:
If anything, being big and having a lot of international players is the cause of disruption to preseason, impacting fitness, team cohesion and match sharpness..

But yes, miss you with that shit, the manager and players are paid money and therefore you don't want excuses. Very rational
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It's what 118 games in, and you still use excuses? Our tactics should be locked in, no matter injuries or transfers.
Hag out.
 
glazed said:
This is the Caf, not a debating society
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And I accept that football as much about emotions as it is about the brain but there are limits that are tolerable, to be fair

'its not acceptable that the players not match sharp/ fully fit'

Looks at the starting eleven, and preseason we didn't have availabile;

Mazraoui, de Ligt, Martinez, Dalot, Mainoo, (I think Eriksen), Bruno & Zirkzee

Soooooo at that point it's not really even emotionally valid, it's whining like a little baby
 
Drainy said:
And I accept that football as much about emotions as it is about the brain but there are limits that are tolerable, to be fair
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There really aren't. Football fans are on the whole stupider than average and when talking about football average people become stupider than they normally are. Combine the two and the result is not pretty. I include myself in this - I say all kinds of dumb things in the match thread. That's the whole point of it.
 
Drainy said:
It's called reason.
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No?
It's really not.
We've been coached badly for too long and spend too much money.
Quote me on this: next coach is going to look our players look like geniuses compared to Ten Hag.
 
glazed said:
There really aren't. Football fans are on the whole stupider than average and when talking about football average people become stupider than they normally are. Combine the two and the result is not pretty. I include myself in this - I say all kinds of dumb things in the match thread. That's the whole point of it.
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Oh I'm also included. I've definitely said dumb things and had people correct me before, and when I thought it through realised they were right.

It's just so obviously black and white that you can't expect a manager to get a team match sharp when 8 of your 10 outfield players aren't available until the season starts.

Other clubs are in the same or similar boat though and it is what it is. You just have to get through as best you can until everyone is up to speed
 
GreatDane said:
No?
It's really not.
We've been coached badly for too long and spend too much money.
Quote me on this: next coach is going to look our players look like geniuses compared to Ten Hag.
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And even if I accepted all that, what does that have to do with a conversation about fitness and sharpness when most of the team aren't available until the Community Shield?
 
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Drainy said:
Oh I'm also included. I've definitely said dumb things and had people correct me before, and when I thought it through realised they were right.

It's just so obviously black and white that you can't expect a manager to get a team match sharp when 8 of your 10 outfield players aren't available until the season starts.

Other clubs are in the same or similar boat though and it is what it is. You just have to get through as best you can until everyone is up to speed
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It's also such a sports/football thing to just fire/replace 1 person and think that both everything will change or that it's the only way. The club literally just changed a huge part of the structure, including around (and directly linked to) the manager. Maybe the match will still prove to be a failure, but even with the Brighton and Pool games there's some obvious improvement so far, at least compared directly to the previous season.

Maybe that all doesn't mean shlips, but if you want a major change, you just got one. No need to get all dramatic and go Laurentiis if a new incomplete team hasn't fully fledged and stabilized in 4 games. But on the other hand lots of football fans care a lot about their club and highly emotional people get drastic quickly/more easily, I guess.
 
glazed said:
It's definitely a personnel issue. The idea pressing player is young, fast, fit, willing, technically good and injury resistant. How many of our players are all six?
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Probably not many but if Ten Hag's vision for United revolves heavily around pressing then perhaps the majority of that £650m over the last 3 summers should have been spent with a focus on attacking players that fit that profile.
 
stevoc said:
Probably not many but if Ten Hag's vision for United revolves heavily around pressing then perhaps the majority of that £650m over the last 3 summers should have been spent with a focus on attacking players that fit that profile.
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After 3 years, there is no consistency in pressing. Rashford isn't putting much effort in pressing or defending. Garnacho is probably the same so opponents know they can bypass the press on their right. Rashford isn't exactly on top form so why is he playing him week in/week out? Rashford played better last night but he seems to have a problem taking on players. Amad on the other hand is taking on players and beating them with measure passing when the shot is not available. How I wish we load many players into the box from the cross or cutback from the right back? The last goal was beautiful, it was the type of goals that we scored in the past. We need overlapping LB/RB who has the ability to cross their preferred foot and bodies in the box to put those chances away. I think our right side is good, ETH needs to figure out the left (Dalot shouldn't be playing there and doesn't Rashford deserve to start every gam).
 
King Kendrick said:
Wasnt able to watch the game, can someone tell me how we lined up after Harry came on for Maz?
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Dalot De Ligt Maguire Martinez

Evans came on shortly after for Martinez and played lb too. Casemiro came on for De Ligt last few minutes and played cb.
 
Very good after Onana's save for their penalty. We have good players despite some people on here thinking otherwise.

I think we should have tried pressing them from the start, but no complaints otherwise.

Next 2 games will be telling.
 
stevoc said:
Probably not many but if Ten Hag's vision for United revolves heavily around pressing then perhaps the majority of that £650m over the last 3 summers should have been spent with a focus on attacking players that fit that profile.
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That's part of the problem. He only really tried to start playing this way from the start of season two. We're in a weird state of flux because the players he signed in season one aren't really suitable for the style of football he started playing in season two, other than Lisandro Martinez.

It's an incredible waste of time and money.
 
Great win for the team and him but let's judge him on tougher games to come.

Much needed win yesterday and we woke up after Southampton missed peno. Some decent football for us to watch.

Some tough games coming up now let's see can we kick on now.
 
I feel we’ve been needing a win like that to get the confidence up, particularly of forward players. Hope he mixes things up in league cup (any chance Hoijland gets a run out) and we build in the palace game. Always feels like we are just about to click and we get a knock back.

Watching the Southampton game, we dominated most of it. The first goal was massive, you could see momentum was building with Southam and I think our team had fragile confidence until we scored.

Sometimes that’s what you need to kick on. I’m hoping that’s the start of a good run.

There are fans who are ridiculously anti ETH to an unhealthy degree. Must be miserable wanting him sacked and focusing more on “how lucky” (load of bollox) he supposedly is all the time. There is also a strong anti ETH media agenda because it get clicks. Heard that there was a push to make a out an ETH team lost in a testimonial friendly during the international break, really is quite pathetic.

I enjoyed it yesterday but the team is going to have to start showing consistency. When it works it works so well and when it doesn’t it is bad.
 
CM said:
That's part of the problem. He only really tried to start playing this way from the start of season two. We're in a weird state of flux because the players he signed in season one aren't really suitable for the style of football he started playing in season two, other than Lisandro Martinez.

It's an incredible waste of time and money.
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He must have thought Antony was suited to it.
 
After the lineup I had major concerns but we came away with a comfortable 3-0 victory, he is due praise for that.

It wasn't looking good until De Ligt scored but after that we looked really good, really comfortable. Southampton didn't have a shot after their pen chance. Credit to the manager.

I think it was one of those games that shows just how important momentum and psychology is to the cohesion in a team.
 
stevoc said:
He must have thought Antony was suited to it.
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Maybe, I'm not really sure. The signings made in the first summer were largely with a focus on playing more of a possession style, Casemiro aside. I think the Antony signing must've been made with that in mind, as his ball retention is probably his biggest strength (a bit of a red flag for a winger, but there you go).

It's probably just that Ten Hag misjudged how good Antony was. A bit crazy really given he had him at Ajax and the fee we ended up paying for him, but Garnacho and Amad are both a lot better on the right for the football we want to play.
 
Bizzare game. We were crap until Soton missed their penalty.

Drainy said:
He's literally the opposite
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That would be Ole. Nobody gave him excuses like that how he had to make do with a midfield of McFred for 3 seasons, or how he didnt get Grealish, or he didnt get Haaland, or how the board only gave him a bunch of old past it strikers, or how he didnt negotiate the fees for Maguire or AWB, sound familiar with excuses thrown for Ten Hag? Wink wink...
 
4 games in and probably the most positive thing of a mixed start is tightening up. If im right, weve conceded 12 shots on target in our opening 4 games, so around 3 a game. A huge improvement from times last year. At the other end we're near top of shots on target ourselves, and top of big chances missed- which is an area that killed us last season and we really need to improve.

Like I said, early days, but Im at least enjoying not feeling like we're about to concede every time we dont have the ball.
 
mardika said:
Bizzare game. We were crap until Soton missed their penalty.



That would be Ole. Nobody gave him excuses like that how he had to make do with a midfield of McFred for 3 seasons, or how he didnt get Grealish, or he didnt get Haaland, or how the board only gave him a bunch of old past it strikers, or how he didnt negotiate the fees for Maguire or AWB, sound familiar with excuses thrown for Ten Hag? Wink wink...
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Revisionism
 
CM said:
Maybe, I'm not really sure. The signings made in the first summer were largely with a focus on playing more of a possession style, Casemiro aside. I think the Antony signing must've been made with that in mind, as his ball retention is probably his biggest strength (a bit of a red flag for a winger, but there you go).

It's probably just that Ten Hag misjudged how good Antony was. A bit crazy really given he had him at Ajax and the fee we ended up paying for him, but Garnacho and Amad are both a lot better on the right for the football we want to play.
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I'm not so sure but if true why do you think he then switched (or tried to) switch to a more pressing heavy style with little focus on possession in 2023?
 
mardika said:
Bizzare game. We were crap until Soton missed their penalty.



That would be Ole. Nobody gave him excuses like that how he had to make do with a midfield of McFred for 3 seasons, or how he didnt get Grealish, or he didnt get Haaland, or how the board only gave him a bunch of old past it strikers, or how he didnt negotiate the fees for Maguire or AWB, sound familiar with excuses thrown for Ten Hag? Wink wink.
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What? The excuses on here for Ole were genuinely some of the best mental gymnastics I've ever seen :lol:
 
Drainy said:
He's literally the opposite
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Let's be fair he's quite lucky to still be in this job. Had it not been for the takeover process there's a very good chance he would have been sacked in late 2023. And again in the summer if not for a combination of winning the cup and Ineos (apparently) not being able to find the man they wanted to replace him.
 
mardika said:
Bizzare game. We were crap until Soton missed their penalty.



That would be Ole. Nobody gave him excuses like that how he had to make do with a midfield of McFred for 3 seasons, or how he didnt get Grealish, or he didnt get Haaland, or how the board only gave him a bunch of old past it strikers, or how he didnt negotiate the fees for Maguire or AWB, sound familiar with excuses thrown for Ten Hag? Wink wink...
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We've even had fairly decent cup draws under Ten Hag as well right? I don't remember them being overly difficult.

The pages of excuses for Ten Hag has been hilarious. The level people will sink to support 'their man' is astonishing.
 
stevoc said:
Let's be fair he's quite lucky to still be in this job. Had it not been for the takeover process there's a very good chance he would have been sacked in late 2023. And again in the summer if not for a combination of winning the cup and Ineos (apparently) not being able to find the man they wanted to replace him.
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I suppose that is true. I expected him gone especially with the new owners and probably wanting their own man and the league position giving a good reason in spite of mitigations, but in more games than not fortune has really not favoured him - whether its close disallowed goals or complete meltdowns by the team, injury crises, very basic individual errors or teams somehow cracking one in the top corner from range he's definitely been on the rough end of the bounce in the last year
 
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