Erik ten Hag | 2024/25 | Sacked

Erik ten Hag

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Here’s the thing, we might just do that. You know why? Southampton so far are the worst team in the league and look like they won’t a scratch card competition to play in the PL this season. The problem is we’ll be right back to this shite as soon as we come up against a semi decent team from the top half of the table.
So a very good performance wouldn't ease your nerves around Ten Hag remotely?
I dont have any issue if this is the case, and I'd understand your school of thought. But curious to know how hardened the stance is.
 
Have to disagree. I could take over right now and ask the team to play 2011 Barca style tiki-taka with Casemiro playing the Messi role. Same principles that Pep gets lauded for. Not sure I'd be offered the same praise after getting walloped by a cricket score at home to Ipswich.

Either ETH has to coach a system that the players at his disposal can competently execute or he teaches them to play his complex but rewarding system or he signs players who arrive already knowing the 'ETH way' and can hit the ground running from day one.

Considering he seems to be pretty shit at the first two, we can hardly blame the club for going with option 3 and signing a bunch of players who already know him and his so-called style.
Before I engage with you further please watch that video from 13 mins on. You’ll understand the point I was making is nowhere near the one you are arguing against.
 
Fewer shots on goal would definitely help Onana, but he needs to improve every aspect of his play -- positioning when under threat, shot stopping itself, command of the box, organizing his back line, short and long ball distribution. There's no aspect of his game about which one could plausibly argue meets the standard of what is expected of a United keeper. Or even a Spurs keeper.
Yes, I agree!

If United had the perfect formation and style of play that suited him, it might be a different story. Teams don't really build for a goalkeeper, though. De Gea would have been much more beneficial when it came to shot stopping, especially last season wen there was so many shots against us.
 
So a very good performance wouldn't ease your nerves around Ten Hag remotely?
I dont have any issue if this is the case, and I'd understand your school of thought. But curious to know how hardened the stance is.
I’m open to him turning things around but the performances have been the same for the best part of 18 months. We play well against these shite teams that haven’t got a clue, get schooled by the big boys and are hit or miss against the mid table teams. The consistency at which that happens doesn’t suggest anything is being turned around or improving, it’s just a very expensive squad battering a very inexpensive squad due to individual ability.
 
We cannot say "he doesnt have the players to play his style" anymore. He spent over 600M to recruit a team he wants. If Casemiro cannot play the way he wants his #6 to play, that's on Ten Hag.
 
I’m open to him turning things around but the performances have been the same for the best part of 18 months. We play well against these shite teams that haven’t got a clue, get schooled by the big boys and are hit or miss against the mid table teams. The consistency at which that happens doesn’t suggest anything is being turned around or improving, it’s just a very expensive squad battering a very inexpensive squad due to individual ability.
Last season we sucked against the bottom teams too, sadly.

From the opening games I see a good game vs Fulham, a good 45 vs Brighton and a good 15-20 vs Liverpool.

Not exactly anything to write home about I guess. A solid 90 vs Southampton will be very positive but its fecking Southampton.
 
We cannot say "he doesnt have the players to play his style" anymore. He spent over 600M to recruit a team he wants. If Casemiro cannot play the way he wants his #6 to play, that's on Ten Hag.
It’s easy to excuse as well. They weren’t his signings, they were club signings.
 
Hope we "stick to the plan" in next 3 games.
At this point I think that the plan is just a drawing of some lemmings walking off a cliff, with Ten Hag hovering above them, wearing a propeller hat with his willy hanging out.
 
-People in the club think ugarte is ahead of some of our players in terms of fitness already.

Called it. We'll see how long he holds up against Ten Hag's anti-fitness regime.
Pre-season bulking on an exclusive diet of greasy fish & chips or kroketten ?
 
So a very good performance wouldn't ease your nerves around Ten Hag remotely?
I dont have any issue if this is the case, and I'd understand your school of thought. But curious to know how hardened the stance is.

Not for me it wouldn’t, because we’ve seen them put in the odd very good performance under Ten Hag. That’s not the issue with his management. The fundamental issue is he has not been able to get them to do it consistently, which makes being competitive in anything but cup competitions impossible. We can beat a great team well one day, then get totally battered and embarrassed by a different good team on another day, then look like hot garbage scraping by lower table and lower league teams on lots of other days.

So how does a very good performance ease that? Are we really at the point where we’re supposed to give Utd managers credit for a very good performance against the likes of Southampton?
 
At this point I think that the plan is just a drawing of some lemmings walking off a cliff, with Ten Hag hovering above them, wearing a propeller hat with his willy hanging out.
Fun fact lemmings don’t do that. I can neither confirm nor deny the Ten Hag allegations.
 
I'm not so sure. Sheffield united were beyond terrible last season, and in the away game vs them last year we looked pretty shite. There was large periods of the game where they were the better team.
Yep. Nothing to suggest we'll suddenly turn in a good performance. Particularly in an away game under Ten Hag.
 
Yep. Nothing to suggest we'll suddenly turn in a good performance. Particularly in an away game under Ten Hag.

“Good performance” is also an extremely vague and subjective term. If we create a few big chances, tuck away a couple but still get sucked into an end to end game where Soton just feck up the final action enough times where we win 2-0 or something that’s hardly a good performance.

For me, “good” would be consistently putting pressure on them in the final third, snuffing out attacks quickly with minimal exertion, and in general having a level of control on the match that makes it seem very comfortable.
 
“Good performance” is also an extremely vague and subjective term. If we create a few big chances, tuck away a couple but still get sucked into an end to end game where Soton just feck up the final action enough times where we win 2-0 or something that’s hardly a good performance.

For me, “good” would be consistently putting pressure on them in the final third, snuffing out attacks quickly with minimal exertion, and in general having a level of control on the match that makes it seem very comfortable.
Agree. Something I can't remember the last time we saw it from us.
 
One good game would not change anything, no. We have had the odd good games even last season. To be fair even if we went on a great run and were 6th or 7th by Christmas, I would still have doubts simply because I’ve seen how terrible we can be under him.
 
One good game would not change anything, no.

It will though, because that's who we are. It's how football discourse has gone too. A striker can be dreadful for months and one deflects in off his bum and it's "take that, doubters"

A win will absolutely change everything. It shouldn't, but it will. Managers doing just enough at crucial junctions in a failed season to avoid getting the sack and instead ploughing on until the next point where they need a win to alleviate pressure, is our speciality.

If we win there'll be a massive upsurge in people wetting themselves at the nerve of those who dared to doubt.
 
Before I engage with you further please watch that video from 13 mins on. You’ll understand the point I was making is nowhere near the one you are arguing against.
I did watch the video. It was interesting, so thanks for linking it!

I was obviously exaggerating in my post, but we appear to have taken different things from the video.You seemed to absolve the manager of the big part of the blame and instead focus on Liverpool having better players, e.g., "The best players allow you to play better systems and play better football because of the consistency in their ability to execute the simple and their ability to execute the sublime."

What I see is that we don't need the best players in the world to execute the simple patterns that were discussed at 13 mins on. That's why I said either that these tactics don't fit these players' strengths (on the manager) or they are not drilled to spot and exploit these patterns consistently (also on the manager). And that's why even when we have far better players than several mid table teams, our football has been a pain to watch in recent years whereas theirs is better, just with more limited players than ours.
 
It will though, because that's who we are. It's how football discourse has gone too. A striker can be dreadful for months and one deflects in off his bum and it's "take that, doubters"

A win will absolutely change everything. It shouldn't, but it will. Managers doing just enough at crucial junctions in a failed season to avoid getting the sack and instead ploughing on until the next point where they need a win to alleviate pressure, is our speciality.

If we win there'll be a massive upsurge in people wetting themselves at the nerve of those who dared to doubt.
Yeah I am talking about my perception not the general public. I agree with you and I had said before that getting a draw against Southampton will improve his support to 25-30% and winning may get it to 40-50%.
 
It’s easy to excuse as well. They weren’t his signings, they were club signings.

This mad narrative has been a thing since the Jose days. It's used to suit agendas: player plays well, manager wanted him, player doesn’t play well, club signed him.

The ready made excuses have been used across 3 managers too. It's bonkers.
 
This mad narrative has been a thing since the Jose days. It's used to suit agendas: player plays well, manager wanted him, player doesn’t play well, club signed him.

The ready made excuses have been used across 3 managers too. It's bonkers.
I mean, people have convinced themselves that Antony and Onana were club signings so what can you do.
 
the Southampton game will determine whether or not the players still have faith in him. Anything but a win there says they’ve downed tools.
 
I've just thought of something. Out of all the post Fergie managers we've had, Van Gaal was the only one who actually managed to implement a system. One of the features of Van Gaal's time at the club was promoting young players and being rid of the older ones who uncoachable.
Yes and no. He abandoned his system after it failed to produce goals and entertainment. Instead we went for a more pragmatic style.

He got the system implemented but the last step was never taken. The squad wasn’t good enough for that.
 
Rewatched the Saints highlights anything less than a convincing win and he should be out. They are beyond shocking.
 
Is ‘Agenda’ a new word for ‘Opinion’ or ‘Point of view’?

Does everything have to be so combative and polarised?
 
Anyone who was a bit naff after being signed by Jose, Ole and ETH was absolutely a club signing.

The best cases for that were Bailly and Lindelof because when we were linked to them the narrative was that they were definitely Mourinho's own targets due to his link with Benfica and spanish Football.
 
Painful isn’t it? People have to be extreme on here now, you’re either in one camp or another, no in between.

Agenda is the correct term when you diligently share a narrative that has a particular outcome. And it's not a particulary extreme observation, people do that all the time.
 
the Southampton game will determine whether or not the players still have faith in him. Anything but a win there says they’ve downed tools.
I don't think the players have ever been against him. Aside from Sancho. They've always looked like they've been trying, they're just following shit instructions from a crap manager.
 
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