Erik ten Hag | 2024/25 | Sacked

[Licha-Vidic]

This system doesn’t work unless we have players with pinpoint passing accuracy and decision making in the final third. Each mistake is a give away for the opposition to counter against a few defenders and a weak midfield.

The system he’s trying to play is positive and what all fans expected from a tactical manager. But I think he’s stubborn in his way of thinking and style of play, which is okay, but not with the right set of players in key positions like CDM/ LW/ AM/ ST, that’s the image I’m getting right now.

Either we back him, and hope that these players suddenly transform into great decision makers, but I don’t see that happening any time soon.

I think we need a couple of months, analyze if he can gel this new team (with Ugarte maybe) that he made with his preferred players and go from there.

Can very well see Tuchel coming in after that if it doesn’t work out. We might not see the best attacking football, but that’s better than seeing games completely out of our hands with a couple bad decisions/passes on the pitch.

It shows bravery and belief to have the guile to play like this, but there’s a thin line between that and being impractical and foolish. He’s standing right on the edge of that line now.

The bolded part.

Then, it's opposite of it really in a real world.

The easiest way to play accurate passes, is not even through pass master players... is through passing the ball to very close teammate. Even Xavi the generational pass master, did this frequently over a decade. Even Kross.

By you passing the ball to your team mate, 5 yards away. The risk of mispass is very low.

But even a Xavi specimen would struggle in passing the ball to a United team mate frequently in this current setup. It would amount to threading passes through multiple players on half turn, after being pressed by 2-3 players.

So even if we buy a Xavi and Scholes, we wont achieve much because the current setup is extremely flawed. It's a system of chance not sustained quality.

By the way, give me coaching of United, the easiest thing to do and I do it very fast, is squeezing the pitch, compress the play.

Ole did this, but his back line was too backwards, thus it necessitated to play counter attack. As defence fell to back.

Thus we just need to set up 10-15 yards more forward. Whoever can't play in a compressed team should leave.

By 2025 we go another 10 yard forward, till we get the desired shape which brings desired results. This is also what Arteta did very easily and it changed Arsenal fortunes.

It's what Pep is a master of.

 

[VP89]

Speaking of braindead logic why are leaughing at something you've invented? When did I say their careers overlapped?



Yeah of course it is.

I've not invented anything. You're out here lazily making assumptions that two of our signings were pursued by Ten Hag and not INEOS because of their nationality.

And hilariously, you seem to dispute a game model by INEOS despite being briefed to multiple tier one journalists. It's one thing not believing one journalist, but burying your head in the sand with all of them is nothing short of laughable.

 

[Winrar]

How do we play... This.

The gap between attacking players and defence is huge, for any modern team.
How comes, the coaching staff still persist on this type of playing.

Shocking...

Obviously because our players like Licha, Maguire, Varane, and Casemiro are injured right?

 

[stevoc]

I've not invented anything. You're out here lazily making assumptions that two of our signings were pursued by Ten Hag and not INEOS because of their nationality.

So why are you talking about Ten Hag and Zirkzee's careers not overlapping then? Show me where I've claimed this.

 

[VP89]

So why are you talking about Ten Hag and Zirkzee's careers not overlapping then? Show me where I've claimed this.

You're claiming zirkzee is pushed by him. If your only premise was on nationality and not some insinuation that he's seen Zirkzee closely on any league on top then it's an even more shameful evaluation than I thought.

 

[George The Best]

Some of you seemingly don't know how today's football works. If for whatever reason Erik doesn't reach the standards given by the board and we need to move on, we need to find a manager with a similar mold whose tactical setup is highly based on the same type of players. It's not like we can do from LVG to Mourinho again - that's like night & day.

https://www.premierleague.com/stats/top/clubs/big_chance_missed

That's one particular stat that the people who want ETH sacked asap don't like. There are glaring mistakes in our play still, but a lot has improved from last season and we continue to work more and more on that.

The Big chances missed show that, we get the opportunities to score, but the players haven't finished them.

Yes, there’s no doubt we are creating, and missing, a lot of chances - top of the league in one aspect, unfortunately. Problem is we are so open in midfield that even if we convert some of those chances the opposition will still create plenty. I think we’ve got a really good back 4 now when Shaw and Yoro are fit, probably best in the league. But - we have a nonexistent midfield. Ugarte will doubtless help to improve that, but won’t solve the problem on his own. We continually get swamped in that area and that’s down to tactics, formation and coaching. ETH needs to fix that fast. We can argue if we’ve got enough strength up front, and that’s fair - but we simply have to fix the midfield situation quickly, as even lower table teams will exploit this gaping hole.

 

[stevoc]

You're claiming zirkzee is pushed by him. If your only premise was on nationality and not some insinuation that he's seen Zirkzee closely on any league on top then it's an even more shameful evaluation than I thought.

What are you talking about now? Are you seriously trying to claim Ten Hag hasn't preferred Dutch and Dutch league players?

You make shit up and then spout absolute waffle to squirm out of it instead of just holding your hands up and admit you're talking shit.

Do us both a favour mate and don't reply to my posts anymore if they upset you so much. The first post says no feuds and yet here you are starting an argument.

 

[Cloud7]

Two trophies. And almost won the community shield

He's like a bad parody of Mourinho doing his "three times" thing, except Mourinho's three weren't tinpot trophies

 

[The Hilton]

I never said there aren’t any available. I just said it is the DOF and the Board to get that to happen. How many thought Slot would start on a good note for Liverpool? Yet if we go by your logic, Liverpool should have just given up hope because their fans would not have been able to give a name better than Klopp and who was attainable.

Anyway we are going in circles with you asking inane questions on providing names as if I am holding discussions with them. I will let this be now.

We're only going around in circles because you refuse to make a suggestion. The issue is that you want Ten Hag sacked immediately, to be replaced by an imaginary manager.

The team who's job it is to find the replacement haven't found one yet, so if you're going to defer to their choice of manager, you have to accept that they haven't found anyone better yet.

Don't worry, the chances of us sticking with him next season are slim, and that's a much better approach in my book as it means we can get the right manager in, rather than throwing a random caretaker at it and hoping for the best.

 

[The Hilton]

De zerbi didn't have the players in back up that we had - it's a simple fecking concept and you just flat out refuse to acknowledge it. Nobody talks about their injury issues, but they were a constant excuse for Ten Hag. You're trying to compare us to Brighton here - you honestly need to get a grip. They don't have Maguire, Eriksen, Amrabat, McTominay, Amad, Reguilon, Wan Bissaka, £80m Antony/Garnacho/Rashford sort of players waiting to come in when they have injuries. They had Lallana, James Milner etc.

Regarding the second paragraph, this proves my point.

'I want us to replace him with someone that has a CV that suggests they can improve us' > posters suggest numerous names, some proven as better coaches > Hilton says they're not good enough and that there is nobody good enough to replace a failing manager. Feck me, it's honestly like banging your head against a wall reading your nonsense.

I'd like you to provide posts for the bit in bold, as I'm unaware of any currently available coaches that are proven better.

If you're including De Zerbi in that it's laughable. He has an objectively worse CV; he's never managed a top team, has spent most of his managerial career as a jourmeyman in Italy before one good season in the PL that was followed by a monumental collapse, and most importantly he's demonstrated all of the big problems we have with Ten Hag but to a worse degree.

 

[DSG]

I think it’s a very simple defense mechanism where once you’ve invested so much of your time and energy into promoting a certain idea (in this case the idea is that ETH is class and the best man for the job) then it’s hard to give up on that, and the longer you persist the harder it gets. There are certain individuals who won’t change their minds about him even if we had 5 seasons like that last one.

I am probably in a similar zone these days as well, albeit at an opposite side of spectrum. It would take A LOT for me to turn around and accept him as the best option available. Even if we were to somehow go on a run now and delivered a heroic 5th or 6th place finish against all odds, I would not change my view of him much as it will still feel like we are 1 injury / transfer away from being absolutely abysmal. He’s brought us to such lows that I will always have a degree of anxiety about our games as long as he’s here, he just doesn’t give me a slightest amount of confidence. I could literally see us drop points to Southampton very easily in our next game, and would not at all be shocked to see us ship 4 to Spurs at OT later this month (which I fully expect to be the first game ever we lose when I attend).

Mate, if we went on a run and got to 2nd in the league with a +35 GD, I’d gladly change my mind and be Ten Hag in. He’s not getting sacked for the next few weeks. For us, mediocrity is sackable. For me, that’s 20-30 matches. If the manager isn’t showing something by then, they should be gone. That seems harsh, but I think our pedigree is a top 5/10 club in the world. That’s Real, Barca, Bayern, PSG, Juventus, Man United, Liverpool & Man City (unfortunately) and maybe AC Milan. At that level the requirements are different. You have to deliver quickly.

I don’t know why there are some in the Caf that don’t have that mentality. Sometimes the cliches hurt us… the old “standards have dropped” don’t really paint an accurate picture. We make more money than just a few clubs. We should be achieving more.

 

[Zed 101]

We're only going around in circles because you refuse to make a suggestion. The issue is that you want Ten Hag sacked immediately, to be replaced by an imaginary manager.

The team who's job it is to find the replacement haven't found one yet, so if you're going to defer to their choice of manager, you have to accept that they haven't found anyone better yet.

Don't worry, the chances of us sticking with him next season are slim, and that's a much better approach in my book as it means we can get the right manager in, rather than throwing a random caretaker at it and hoping for the best.

Problem is that just sticking with ETH because the dream manager doesn't exist is even more flawed. ETH is tanking the club, the ETH lovers seem to hate on the anyone but ETH comment but genuinely I believe that the absence of a manager would be preferable he is that inept.

Last year we lost £80+ million revenue due to our shocking results (carrying on into this season), our points scored over the last dozen or so games would have us in the relegation places, and you can forget about succeeding in Europe if last seasons debacle is anything to go on.

If we just keep with ETH then we are potentially damaging the club finances and the team for the next manager.

I am not party to inside information to know the availability of managers, but I would certainly get Tuchel in, I am not the biggest fan but we would see an immediate improvement with him, and okay so maybe there might be more attractive options in the summer which we have cut ourselves off from but it is a heck of a long way to get to the summer, the longer we stick with ETH the worse state the club will be in and the harder the job will be.

 

[Teja]

Does anyone remember why the Tuchel deal fell through? Was it because of finances?

 

[tomaldinho1]

Does anyone remember why the Tuchel deal fell through? Was it because of finances?

Probably realised he’s arguably the most difficult man alive and blows up dressing rooms for fun. Good coach, mind you, but I’m not sure Ineos wanted his drama.

 

[The Hilton]

This is utter nonsense. There is never ever a guarantee that a new manager will be an improvement, but that doesn’t mean changing the manager is engaging in change for change sake. That’s just a meaningless cliche. Changing the manager when your current manager is underperforming is change for a very deliberate and specific purpose: trying to improve the performance of the team. I’m really not sure how you’re so confused by this concept. Football clubs have been changing managers in attempts to improve their teams since football began.

Demanding redcafe members name and justify replacements before they’re allowed to conclude that Ten Hag is the wrong man for the job is just a fatuous distraction tactic, because it doesn’t address the fundamental question of whether Ten Hag is the right man or not, you’ll pick holes in whoever is suggested, and no one knows whether any replacement would end up being an improvement anyway. We have installed very experienced and high calibre people to make such decisions, and given that any replacement will be the new personnel’s first appointment, it seems only sensible to see if they can do any better than the last lot who decided that Ten Hag was the right man.

Tuchel, McKenna, Emery, Nagelsmann, Frank, Amorim would all get a better tune out of current squad than Ten Hag is IMO, because Ten Hag’s system is failing to provide us with a sound defence, an effective midfield, or an attack that can score goals. Anyone who can improve us in any of those areas right now would be an improvement.

Do you really think there’s not a single manager out there that could outperform Ten Hag right now? Football is really devoid of a single person that could get more out of this team?

You've listed a bunch of managers who aren't available (with some that are silly, like Frank, come on).

Wanting him sacked at the end of the season and replaced with a proven alternative is reasonable. Nagelsmann is my ideal appointment, I'd make the swap in a second. But if you want him sacked now, then we'd need to replace him now, which means you either know of a manager who's available that you have good reason to think will do a better job, or you want to roll the dice. The latter simply isn't a rational approach.

As for your first paragraph, there isn't a job you can apply for that doesn't require a CV, skills and past experience provide evidence that someone is capable of a job. Football management is no different, a calculated gamble on a good manager with appropriate experience is a rational change, whereas having no idea who to appoint is change for changes sake.

 

[DSG]

ETH will never lift the EPL because ever season he starts he’s under prepared, before 10 PL have been payed he’s normally lost 4 or 5 and you simply can’t recover from that.

I was hoping this year with him been given a second chance, he would have had time to anylyse the previous two premier league season starts and look for improvements, it’s small gains. Look at those first 5 PL games this season and target 3/4 wins 1/2 draws stay unbeaten and have 11-13 points but now he’ll be lucky to have 6/7.

Last season the club got 60 points and 8th place but managed 4 Points from Fulham(H), Liverpool (H), and Brighton (A) this season we have 3 Points and this is how ETH must be managed by Dan Ashworth add Palace(A) and Saints(A) who we can swap out for Sheffield United and that would be 7 points from those same 5 PL matches last season, ETH needs two wins but I think we’ll be lucky to get 1 draw and 1 defeat which means the club Must Sack him if he doesn’t get two wins!

You can’t afford to be 8/10 points behind your opponents top 4/5 after just 5 EPL games. Two must win games or he gets sacked !

I think it’s much more dastardly than that mate. SAF was always behind as well, but managed to solidify the team and put together a run before and through Christmas.

Ten Hag had been bad in prep and tactics

 

[SirMattlives]

Regardless of the sacking/keeping discussion, I have to imagine everyone on the coaching and management side at the club can see how open we are, and surely are working on addressing it. I mean, surely they and even the players have to be asking questions now? I'd love to know what the coaching team imagine this approach might work when everyone plays perfectly. Have we ever witnessed it in a meaningful match? ETH must have a convincing argument but I've never heard him make it.

 

[House Mkhitaryan]

Quite funny when you watch it really.

Holy crap, this is so bad. This video shows why I don't blame the players. They are put in absolutely impossible situations in this system. No squad in the history of football would be successful playing like this for 90 mins every week.

 

[Licha-Vidic]

Our midfielders

 

[CtrlAltDeLigt]

The bolded part.

Then, it's opposite of it really in a real world.

The easiest way to play accurate passes, is not even through pass master players... is through passing the ball to very close teammate. Even Xavi the generational pass master, did this frequently over a decade. Even Kross.

By you passing the ball to your team mate, 5 yards away. The risk of mispass is very low.

But even a Xavi specimen would struggle in passing the ball to a United team mate frequently in this current setup. It would amount to threading passes through multiple players on half turn, after being pressed by 2-3 players.

So even if we buy a Xavi and Scholes, we wont achieve much because the current setup is extremely flawed. It's a system of chance not sustained quality.

By the way, give me coaching of United, the easiest thing to do and I do it very fast, is squeezing the pitch, compress the play.

Ole did this, but his back line was too backwards, thus it necessitated to play counter attack. As defence fell to back.

Thus we just need to set up 10-15 yards more forward. Whoever can't play in a compressed team should leave.

By 2025 we go another 10 yard forward, till we get the desired shape which brings desired results. This is also what Arteta did very easily and it changed Arsenal fortunes.

It's what Pep is a master of.

I agree with you partially, yes playing simple passes and progressing not everytime we have the ball should work in our favour.

But that’s not how this apparent system works, it just relies on extremely fast transitions, just like Liverpool did under Klopp. If we spend too much time on the ball, the opposition will fall back and we are stuck attacking a low block.

Klopp had exactly the midfielders you describe in your post. Kept it simple in passing, but absolute monsters when out of possession. Covered ground like anything shielded by a prime Fabinho. And a defence that plays high with fb’s in the opposition half.

Just going by the games I saw, our midfielders/ attackers are way too imprecise and rely on volume rather than making decisive actions. A pass just behind on the counter/ attacker running offside, we waste so many transitions. Compare ours to the trio on Salah, Firmino and Mane, we are no way near to getting clinical in final third.

Just giving it a month or two more will make it clear if the new players can fit together. And can finally end the debate of ten hag in or out.

If I have to put forward my opinion, if we stick with ten hag, we will be in the rebuilding phase for another year. Reaching the point of sunk cost philosophy.

 

[The Hilton]

This is the most useless fecking argument ever. If Ten Hag isn’t good enough, you sack him. Period. Keeping him here waiting for the perfect hire is madness.

Tuchel
Xavi
Potter
Allegri
Conte
Zidane

Before you discount all of these options, you don’t know and I don’t know. What we DO KNOW is Ten Hag is shit. feck me, Ruud could be better than Ten Hag, that’s how bad he has been.

If you sack him, you have to replace him, unless you're suggesting going manager less will improve things? If so, you need to provide your reasoning. Same with Ruud, what reasoning do you have to think he'll do a better job? Saying he couldn't be any worse is just irrational, as that's an obvious falsehood.

From the names you listed, all have question marks. Xavi and Potter are the only ones that really fit the kind of proactive football we want to play. Tuchel has question marks given he finished second in a one horse race in Germany last season, and Zidane is interesting but it's unlikely he'll come here.

 

[thisisnottaken1]

If you sack him, you have to replace him, unless you're suggesting going manager less will improve things? If so, you need to provide your reasoning. Same with Ruud, what reasoning do you have to think he'll do a better job? Saying he couldn't be any worse is just irrational, as that's an obvious falsehood.

From the names you listed, all have question marks. Xavi and Potter are the only ones that really fit the kind of proactive football we want to play. Tuchel has question marks given he finished second in a one horse race in Germany last season, and Zidane is interesting but it's unlikely he'll come here.

Tuchel didn’t even finish second, he finished third.

 

[VP89]

What are you talking about now? Are you seriously trying to claim Ten Hag hasn't preferred Dutch and Dutch league players?

You make shit up and then spout absolute waffle to squirm out of it instead of just holding your hands up and admit you're talking shit.

Do us both a favour mate and don't reply to my posts anymore if they upset you so much. The first post says no feuds and yet here you are starting an argument.

You have evidently lost track of the debate - so let me remind you.

You claimed most the signings were Ten Hag's pushes, and bucketed De Ligt and Zirkzee into that. You were then reminded about how De Ligt was actually an INEOS signing, per multiple tier one reports and Ten Hag's own words - but chose to bury your head in the sand because you know - dutch innit.

Then you were reminded Zirkzee was a 2nd choice behind Sesko, and actually fits the Ashworth mould more than the Ten Hag one. But you ignored that and claimed it has to be Ten Hag's choice because you know - dutch innit.

This isn't feuding by the way - I just called out your lack of proper foundation and cited multiple sources that pointed to the contrary. And you've called these sources "waffle", suggesting you must be right because, well, dutch innit.

Anyway lets draw a line, your reasoning makes me chuckle and that's about all I can say.

 

[RedDevil@84]

I have to imagine everyone on the coaching and management side at the club can see how open we are, and surely are working on addressing it

After what we saw last season and starting to see this season, I don't share that confidence. It seems like we try to do a few things in a regular game. It doesn't work and we conceded 10 shots or more in the game. Depending on the skills of the opposition team's finishers, we either lose or escape with a draw or a win. We rinse, repeat same thing in the next game and spend the entire game, dangerously close to losing.

 

[Oscar Bonavena]

Anybody Liverpool found would’ve given us a game on Sunday, all he’s done is go in there keep those plates spinning. They were already a team capable of giving us a hiding. It’s a different job to coming into a club at their lowest ebb and transforming it from top to bottom.

Not saying Ten Hag doesn’t deserve criticism, just saying I’ve seen a few people getting misty eyed over Slot since Sunday so thought I’d point that out.

Ah yeah fair point, I know Slot is flavour of the month after the start he's had. He's probably helped if anything by not having any new signings as he can just concentrate on getting the best from the players he has, and not having to integrate new signings. Hopefully he'll bring in a few Antonys or Onanas of his own into the Liverpool squad!

But as a 1v1 tactical match up on Sunday, it was shocking and embarrassing how easy it was for Slot. I thought after last season, winning 1 and drawing 2 against Liverpool, Ten Hag had got a handle on how to play them and we were past the era of taking hammerings from them. Obviously not!

 

[tjb]

Without a doubt they weren't and Erik is fecked off with them over McTominay being sold, can definitely see a clash before long

I personally think the writing being on the wall is all over these statements. They made sure to point out that neither Berrarda or Ashworth decided to keep him. Ashworth stated specifically what he would be judged on, making it clear that all the responsibilities that were felt to be holding him back have been taken off. They made the point to state they will be working closely with him. It all smells of Ten Hag being under the cosh internally, which is what I've always wanted. Its telling that he's handling the media and internal pressure this badly. I don't think our managers were previously put under the required internal pressure to perform until it was too late.

 

[Licha-Vidic]

I agree with you partially, yes playing simple passes and progressing not everytime we have the ball should work in our favour.

But that’s not how this apparent system works, it just relies on extremely fast transitions, just like Liverpool did under Klopp. If we spend too much time on the ball, the opposition will fall back and we are stuck attacking a low block.

Klopp had exactly the midfielders you describe in your post. Kept it simple in passing, but absolute monsters when out of possession. Covered ground like anything shielded by a prime Fabinho. And a defence that plays high with fb’s in the opposition half.

Just going by the games I saw, our midfielders/ attackers are way too imprecise and rely on volume rather than making decisive actions. A pass just behind on the counter/ attacker running offside, we waste so many transitions. Compare ours to the trio on Salah, Firmino and Mane, we are no way near to getting clinical in final third.

Just giving it a month or two more will make it clear if the new players can fit together. And can finally end the debate of ten hag in or out.

If I have to put forward my opinion, if we stick with ten hag, we will be in the rebuilding phase for another year. Reaching the point of sunk cost philosophy.

But also one fundamental thing, probably you forget is... Liverpool

1. Had genuine midfielders. Who could run, muscle you out, run with the ball. Us we don't have anything of that sort. Bruno and Casemiro are one second pass merchants. Both physically they can't bully anyone. All Mainoo, Case, Bruno did bounce off opponents on Sunday. They were tackled, then Liverpool scored.

2. Liverpool had defence which squeezed the pitch. Vvd would bring the defence line higher up, thus the area of operation of defence, midfielders to chase for the ball, and strikers being just on offside line was very close. This create the loop of everybody being near each other.

3. Strike force of Salah, Mane was levels higher than us. A). In pressing, counter pressing and finishing.

So as you can see, we have absolutely nothing like what Liverpool had. So it's suicidal to expect to play like Liverpool when even the 3 fundamentals of the team is flawed.

A beg even, Onana and Allison are two different specimen..

That's why we don't progress. By the way it's very easy to see our problems but I don't know why people don't see it...

You see how other managers can easily explain how to beat us,, yes that way. Others see it, but majority of us don't see.

 

[Oscar Bonavena]

How do we play... This.

The gap between attacking players and defence is huge, for any modern team.
How comes, the coaching staff still persist on this type of playing.

Shocking...

Like flies walking into a spider web. Falling into traps every time.

 

[The Hilton]

Problem is that just sticking with ETH because the dream manager doesn't exist is even more flawed. ETH is tanking the club, the ETH lovers seem to hate on the anyone but ETH comment but genuinely I believe that the absence of a manager would be preferable he is that inept.

Last year we lost £80+ million revenue due to our shocking results (carrying on into this season), our points scored over the last dozen or so games would have us in the relegation places, and you can forget about succeeding in Europe if last seasons debacle is anything to go on.

If we just keep with ETH then we are potentially damaging the club finances and the team for the next manager.

I am not party to inside information to know the availability of managers, but I would certainly get Tuchel in, I am not the biggest fan but we would see an immediate improvement with him, and okay so maybe there might be more attractive options in the summer which we have cut ourselves off from but it is a heck of a long way to get to the summer, the longer we stick with ETH the worse state the club will be in and the harder the job will be.

It's highly unlikely Tuchel would take the job as a caretaker, especially after we turned him down in the summer.

It isn't the perfect manager, that's a misrepresentation of my point, but we do need a manager that we have a reasonable expectation of things improving under, the reasoning for which you should be able to articulate. For a long term appointment we'd need them to have a proactive footballing approach too.

The club evidently haven't identified anyone who will improve things immediately, or they'd be in the position.

 

[Valencia Shin Crosses]

Mate, if we went on a run and got to 2nd in the league with a +35 GD, I’d gladly change my mind and be Ten Hag in. He’s not getting sacked for the next few weeks. For us, mediocrity is sackable. For me, that’s 20-30 matches. If the manager isn’t showing something by then, they should be gone. That seems harsh, but I think our pedigree is a top 5/10 club in the world. That’s Real, Barca, Bayern, PSG, Juventus, Man United, Liverpool & Man City (unfortunately) and maybe AC Milan. At that level the requirements are different. You have to deliver quickly.

I don’t know why there are some in the Caf that don’t have that mentality. Sometimes the cliches hurt us… the old “standards have dropped” don’t really paint an accurate picture. We make more money than just a few clubs. We should be achieving more.

Yeah pretty much how I felt going into this year, but for some reason the other side isn’t the same way. I swear some of the prominent Ten Hag defenders were saying back in Feb that if it didn’t turn around soon they’d change their minds (because I asked and was genuinely curious what would change their viewpoints), yet it’s now September and they defend him to the death at every point.

 

[Valencia Shin Crosses]

It's highly unlikely Tuchel would take the job as a caretaker, especially after we turned him down in the summer.

It isn't the perfect manager, that's a misrepresentation of my point, but we do need a manager that we have a reasonable expectation of things improving under, the reasoning for which you should be able to articulate. For a long term appointment we'd need them to have a proactive footballing approach too.

The club evidently haven't identified anyone who will improve things immediately, or they'd be in the position.

And I think everyone’s point that’s arguing with you is that there’s a high probability of a number of managers, interim or not, improving things over what current performances and results have been for almost 18 months now.

 

[Normann]

Time to sack and let RVN take over the season. I really hope that board is fast and fourios on this one. Been too poor for the longest time.

 

[Blood Mage]

But also one fundamental thing, probably you forget is... Liverpool

1. Had genuine midfielders. Who could run, muscle you out, run with the ball. Us we don't have anything of that sort. Bruno and Casemiro are one second pass merchants. Both physically they can't bully anyone. All Mainoo, Case, Bruno did bounce off opponents on Sunday. They were tackled, then Liverpool scored.

2. Liverpool had defence which squeezed the pitch. Vvd would bring the defence line higher up, thus the area of operation of defence, midfielders to chase for the ball, and strikers being just on offside line was very close. This create the loop of everybody being near each other.

3. Strike force of Salah, Mane was levels higher than us. A). In pressing, counter pressing and finishing.

So as you can see, we have absolutely nothing like what Liverpool had. So it's suicidal to expect to play like Liverpool when even the 3 fundamentals of the team is flawed.

A beg even, Onana and Allison are two different specimen..

That's why we don't progress. By the way it's very easy to see our problems but I don't know why people don't see it...

You see how other managers can easily explain how to beat us,, yes that way. Others see it, but majority of us don't see.

It's wild how we seem to spend so much money every summer, but our team remains utterly crap. Liverpool have hardly spent anything for two years and still have a much better team.

Last summer's window was one of our worst ever so that didn't help. Mount and Onana were a huge waste of money and the jury is still out on Hojlund.

 

[Garnacho Libre]

Nothing to do with the tactics

@SparcMac made a good point. Tied with Liverpool, the club with most big chances missed https://www.premierleague.com/stats/top/clubs/big_chance_missed

If half of those chances were scored, then we'd have at least one more win. You must agree they are defending better - the problem is the midfield, which wasn't strengthened aside from Ugarte, whom hasn't played yet.

I've said it countless times, at the end of the day it's the results that matter - but progress has been made as United are playing a bit better than majority of last season. It's still not good enough but United have fallen so far behind that all everyone wants to see is progress; and that's being made.

 

[Licha-Vidic]

It's wild how we seem to spend so much money every summer, but our team remains utterly crap. Liverpool have hardly spent anything for two years and still have a much better team.

Last summer's window was one of our worst ever so that didn't help. Mount and Onana were a huge waste of money and the jury is still out on Hojlund.

Yeah. Because football is a game of 11 players.
No more.

It's how you setup the 11 guys determines alot. Yes quality players help in achieving that, and yes United as an entity can, will also attract best players, so it's just very easy to construct a good team. Just get the elite blueprint then execute it, by trying to sign competent players.

But now we have a mismatched players to how we expect to play, very peculiar talents plus very peculiar tactics = this unknown game plans.


Like here below is Onana. Compare him to Allison or Ederson, or Schmeichel.. Can Onana really deliver us to PL or Champions League glory?

Just look at him here

 

[Zumbi]

You've listed a bunch of managers who aren't available (with some that are silly, like Frank, come on).

Wanting him sacked at the end of the season and replaced with a proven alternative is reasonable. Nagelsmann is my ideal appointment, I'd make the swap in a second. But if you want him sacked now, then we'd need to replace him now, which means you either know of a manager who's available that you have good reason to think will do a better job, or you want to roll the dice. The latter simply isn't a rational approach.

As for your first paragraph, there isn't a job you can apply for that doesn't require a CV, skills and past experience provide evidence that someone is capable of a job. Football management is no different, a calculated gamble on a good manager with appropriate experience is a rational change, whereas having no idea who to appoint is change for changes sake.

Are you new to football or something? First season watching maybe?

“Unavailable” managers will happily leave clubs for new opportunities if the right offer is made. Clubs sack managers mid season and manage to find replacements mid season, every single season. The idea that this is somehow beyond Man Utd and Ineos is laughable. You’re delusional if you really think they wouldn’t be able to lure a replacement if they really went after one. The idea that this change has to wait until the end of the season is just nonsense to anyone who knows anything about the managerial merry-go-round that is football. And it’ll be proved as such if Ten Hag fails to get this team playing very soon, because if he doesn’t, Ineos will take action long before then. We’re three games in and the pressure is already building.

But as I predicted, this is just a disingenuous distraction tactic that aims to deflect from the real question about whether Ten Hag is the right man whilst picking holes in any names put forward. It’s a bad faith argument that everyone you’re engaging with can see coming a mile away.

Changing an underperforming manager for a new one is not change for change sake. It’s specifically and deliberately done in an attempt to improve the performance of the team. You keep dodging that point but incessantly repeating a cliche doesn’t lend it any credence.

No manager in the world, whatever their CV or experience, is guaranteed to succeed, so yes, every new appointment is a roll of the dice to some extent. Welcome to football. But sticking with a manager who keeps setting new records for terrible results is also rolling the dice. You’re just knowingly rolling a dice that has a history of rolling ones and twos.

 

[Lentwood]

Agree with both actually.

It's hard to assess this squad but I feel we are underachieving terribly. This group should be doing so much better. Like you can't tell me Brighton with Gilmour and Milner in CM should be better than us.

It's ridiculous but as another poster has already pointed out, some people will try to tell you that clubs like Brighton have better players than us - they don't, they just don't understand levels in football and the difference between playing for a top club and a middling club.

We should be beating these teams and beating them comfortably. You expect to come unstuck from time to time because every dog has its day and also variance can bite you...but under EtH we are matched or even outplayed by these teams on a regular basis.

 

[Teja]

It's ridiculous but as another poster has already pointed out, some people will try to tell you that clubs like Brighton have better players than us - they don't, they just don't understand levels in football and the difference between playing for a top club and a middling club.

We should be beating these teams and beating them comfortably. You expect to come unstuck from time to time because every dog has its day and also variance can bite you...but under EtH we are matched or even outplayed by these teams on a regular basis.

I mostly don't even bother getting my hopes up when we're playing any top half team away from home. You know what you'd get at Brighton if you paid attention at all in the past 3 years. And yeah nothing to do with quality, there's a reason why the likes of Palace, Newcastle etc. can play us off the park.

 

[In Rainbows]

Got some new defenders back, still Ten Hag doesn't value compactness. It will never work with him in charge when he doesn't value it.

 

[Berbaclass]

Got some new defenders back, still Ten Hag doesn't value compactness. It will never work with him in charge when he doesn't value it.

Oof