Erik ten Hag | 2024/25 | Sacked

[laughtersassassin]

It's sad and frankly ridiculous we allowed ourselves to come into this season with him as manager.

We came fecking 8th with the goal difference and goals scored of a team that would be below mid table.

Where was the critical thinking when they decided to keep him. It's maddening because since they started the season with him they'll likely be very reluctant to sack him.

I'm sure they will sack him but not before giving him way too many chances to turn things around even though we all know that won't happen

 

[Sarni]

Reasons to sack him, even if you think you “don’t have a better option”;
1. The option you think isn’t better actually is.
2. There are many many more accomplished and available managers.
3. If the players don’t see the tactics and preparation working, they lose morale and confidence.
4. Typically, if you are going the wrong direction, you change course, even if it means you go out of your way a bit to get where you are going.

The club’s ultimate goal is to win the PL again. We will never do that under Ten Hag. There is no sense in keeping him.

A small chance at something good is always better than no chance at something good.

 

[ThanksBoss26]

If I was to predict now, I think he’ll be out around the November international break. I don’t think it’s inconceivable he’ll be gone by the October one. I was hoping for different as I’d really rather avoid having to change manager again but I’ve resigned myself to the fact that we’re never going to be more than 3 or 4 games away from chucking in another howler in under him in the league and that will do for him sooner rather than later. 19 points from the last 15 league games is a disgraceful effort.

Despite some obviously terrible moments, he had loads of credit in the bank with me after his first season. That disappeared last season but I was even one of those lulled into hoping things would change after the cup final. Now it’s a matter of time before he goes and he really hasn’t helped himself for the most part. Hope he proves me wrong but I highly doubt that now.

 

[Cheimoon]

There is the potentially soul crushing Allegri who is definitely a better manager on paper.

That sounds like a terrible fit for the squad though. It's getting more and more stylistically coherent now, so the next coach should be someone who similarly plays front-foot, high-press football. Otherwise, another large-scale squad turnover would be necessary, which doesn't make sense and is exactly the mistake United have been making for a decade now, see-sawing between stylistically very different managers. That what led to the squad being a total mess of incompatible players. So people like Allegri or Conte shouldn't be options for United now.

 

[Zumbi]

It isn't baseless speculation, it's a fact. They can be discussing whatever behind the scenes, but until they pull the trigger, they haven't decided that someone else is better. On top of that, they've publicly supported him.

Your first paragraph is contradictory, if we're replacing him based on hope, rather than expectation, then that's change for changes sake. In order to have expectation, rather than hope, you should be able to articulate why.

It really shouldn't be that difficult, if you think you know of someone who will do a better job, name them and explain why. If you can't think of a single available manager who will improve us, then you can't make a rational argument for sacking.

This is utter nonsense. There is never ever a guarantee that a new manager will be an improvement, but that doesn’t mean changing the manager is engaging in change for change sake. That’s just a meaningless cliche. Changing the manager when your current manager is underperforming is change for a very deliberate and specific purpose: trying to improve the performance of the team. I’m really not sure how you’re so confused by this concept. Football clubs have been changing managers in attempts to improve their teams since football began.

Demanding redcafe members name and justify replacements before they’re allowed to conclude that Ten Hag is the wrong man for the job is just a fatuous distraction tactic, because it doesn’t address the fundamental question of whether Ten Hag is the right man or not, you’ll pick holes in whoever is suggested, and no one knows whether any replacement would end up being an improvement anyway. We have installed very experienced and high calibre people to make such decisions, and given that any replacement will be the new personnel’s first appointment, it seems only sensible to see if they can do any better than the last lot who decided that Ten Hag was the right man.

Tuchel, McKenna, Emery, Nagelsmann, Frank, Amorim would all get a better tune out of current squad than Ten Hag is IMO, because Ten Hag’s system is failing to provide us with a sound defence, an effective midfield, or an attack that can score goals. Anyone who can improve us in any of those areas right now would be an improvement.

Do you really think there’s not a single manager out there that could outperform Ten Hag right now? Football is really devoid of a single person that could get more out of this team?

 

[Cheimoon]

Since when did giving an opinion been considered making things up, though?

OK, 'opinion based on nothing', then. If you prefer me putting it that way.

 

[mu4c_20le]

Oh, I would never suggest that he seems like a likeable dude in public. But I have not yet read about any of his ex-players that they disliked him as a coach or on a personal level, and last year's fall-outs (hazy as they are) seem to have been more about tactics and line-ups. You also can't say players aren't putting an effort in (even if it's up and down). So unless there stuff I'm missing, I do think people claiming that Ten Hag must be terrible to work with etc. are just making that up.

I don't think its far fetched at all to suggest he must be difficult to work with because he's a shit communicator.

 

[Woziak]

Villa just straight up don't, Chelsea are a shit show and Newcastle are in poor form and have their own issues with Howe seemingly loosing it a bit, FFP etc. We'll get ~65-70 pts ish this season as we did for the last decade. I think we'll finish 5th as a result with Liverpool, Arsenal and City locking up 3/5 spots and likely Spurs at 4th.

A WC #9 won't do anything without a midfield and defence to back it up - we were going to play Evans, Maguire, Amass and Dalot as our defenders and a past-it Casemiro and Mainoo as our mids. The prioritization of transfer targets was right. Signing an Osimhen wouldn't have fixed anything.

Ultimately Ten Hag's pressing scheme was ineffective against Pool. Doesn't mean it'll be ineffective against the likes of Southampton.



Last season was shit due to a once in a decade injury crisis, why not use the previous year's tallies?

The previous two years we scored 58 PL goals and came 3rd and the season before that 57 goals and came 6th your point, our average position since Sir Alex retired is 5th, ETH average position is 11 divided by 2 so 5.5 and he’s only making the team worse, the players and now most of the fans just want him gone!

If he stays we are 7th to 11th and that’s a fact!

 

[croadyman]

Maybe if Erik had shown he could play a possession based expansive style of football I would want him to turn it around, sadly he isn't capable of doing that so need a new manager before too much damage done

 

[Ali Dia]

I’ve gone for back but I’m dismayed at how we’ve started the season and how out of sorts our best players still look. We’ve made good signings, it’s up to the manager to shake the team up. Casemiro Rashford and Bruno have all been crap. Funnily enough mount has been one of our better players. Losing him isn’t an excuse but it is more terrible luck for him and us. Hopefully we spank Southampton and get some belief into the squad and we kick on. If we keep losing and drawing games that on paper we should be winning ETH will be gone before Xmas and rightfully so. He’s spent a fortune now and got good coaches in. He picks the team, at least pick a team that will fight for every ball.

 

[Cheimoon]

I don't think its far fetched at all to suggest he must be difficult to work with because he's a shit communicator.

Except no-one in his history as a coach has come out with that sort of comment (that I'm aware of), so the current (lack of) evidence is against you with that assumption.

 

[RedBanker]

That sounds like a terrible fit for the squad though. It's getting more and more stylistically coherent now, so the next coach should be someone who similarly plays front-foot, high-press football. Otherwise, another large-scale squad turnover would be necessary, which doesn't make sense and is exactly the mistake United have been making for a decade now, see-sawing between stylistically very different managers. That what led to the squad being a total mess of incompatible players. So people like Allegri or Conte shouldn't be options for United now.

Front foot high press? We are playing this now?

 

[croadyman]

Amazes me we might have to put up with this until xmas, however that's a real possibility if he keeps saving himself from the brink with the odd win

 

[JPRouve]

That sounds like a terrible fit for the squad though. It's getting more and more stylistically coherent now, so the next coach should be someone who similarly plays front-foot, high-press football. Otherwise, another large-scale squad turnover would be necessary, which doesn't make sense and is exactly the mistake United have been making for a decade now, see-sawing between stylistically very different managers. That what led to the squad being a total mess of incompatible players. So people like Allegri or Conte shouldn't be options for United now.

Not really. Not only the current squad isn't particularly marked stylistically but we are also bad at all the things you listed. Also a squad that doesn't have a midfield with a clear identity has no identity, in spite of all the money we spent, the next manager or ETH still has to develop an actual coherent style and identity. We can go in any direction without any large scale squad turnover. The only thing that needs to be determined or redetermined is the trio of midfielders and only Mainoo and Ugarte should be mid to long term considerations and neither should be guaranteed a starting spot, everyone else should be jettisoned.

 

[mu4c_20le]

Except no-one in his history as a coach has come out with that sort of comment (that I'm aware of), so the current (lack of) evidence is against you with that assumption.

It was always an opinion based on his press conferences and interviews. I think it's actually quite rare for players to come out and blast their ex managers like di Maria. Even Mourinho does not have that many public haters despite getting personal with them.

 

[Werd.]

OK, 'opinion based on nothing', then. If you prefer me putting it that way.

'Opinion based on how his personality comes across in interviews' will do

 

[RedRover]

This is utter nonsense. There is never ever a guarantee that a new manager will be an improvement, but that doesn’t mean changing the manager is engaging in change for change sake. That’s just a meaningless cliche. Changing the manager when your current manager is underperforming is change for a very deliberate and specific purpose: trying to improve the performance of the team. I’m really not sure how you’re so confused by this concept. Football clubs have been changing managers in attempts to improve their teams since football began.

Demanding redcafe members name and justify replacements before they’re allowed to conclude that Ten Hag is the wrong man for the job is just a fatuous distraction tactic, because it doesn’t address the fundamental question of whether Ten Hag is the right man or not, you’ll pick holes in whoever is suggested, and no one knows whether any replacement would end up being an improvement anyway. We have installed very experienced and high calibre people to make such decisions, and given that any replacement will be the new personnel’s first appointment, it seems only sensible to see if they can do any better than the last lot who decided that Ten Hag was the right man.

Tuchel, McKenna, Emery, Nagelsmann, Frank, Amorim would all get a better tune out of current squad than Ten Hag is IMO, because Ten Hag’s system is failing to provide us with a sound defence, an effective midfield, or an attack that can score goals. Anyone who can improve us in any of those areas right now would be an improvement.

Do you really think there’s not a single manager out there that could outperform Ten Hag right now? Football is really devoid of a single person that could get more out of this team?

The "there's nobody better" argument is bizarre.

There are plenty of managers in the PL playing better football and getting more out of much less talented squads, with fewer resources, many of whom would be attainable either now or in the near future.

Tuchel is available, and I don't understand why people don't think he would do a better job. There are other managers outside the PL who are likely the next to be given a chance at a "big" club, just like ETH was. Some of those will be the top managers for the next 20 years, winning titles and managing the elite clubs.

The idea that you should stick with something that doesn't work, because you can't guarantee that the replacement will work is a nonsense.

Why people a breaking their necks to defend him I just don't understand. On all available evidence he is out of his depth. No other top club would accept the performance last season. A single decent performance in a final saved him, but served to highlight how poor we'd been all season.

The executive/footballing structure brought in by INEOS is supposed to be "best in class" so it's time for them to do their job, if and when the club decide to part with ETH.

 

[DSG]

Not really. Not only the current squad isn't particularly marked stylistically but we are also bad at all the things you listed. Also a squad that doesn't have a midfield with a clear identity has no identity, in spite of all the money we spent, the next manager or ETH still has to develop an actual coherent style and identity. We can go in any direction without any large scale squad turnover. The only thing that needs to be determined or redetermined is the trio of midfielders and only Mainoo and Ugarte should be mid to long term considerations and neither should be guaranteed a starting spot, everyone else should be jettisoned.

There is a pretty decent argument that the tactics Ten Hag has them playing are actually so bad, that we don’t know what kind of football they can play stylistically. They probably can play a high press Ange-style high tempo. They also may be able to play a Brighton style possession + high press mix. We just don’t know because Ten Hag ball is so bad. I actually wouldn’t mind a pragmatist like Tuchel (by pragmatist, I mean can play several different styles).

 

[Raoul]

To the 15% who want him to stay. Is it because you legitimately believe he's the best long term manager at United or simply because there isn't a suitable replacement available now if he were sacked today ?

 

[Daydreamer]

I gave him a pretty generous benefit of the doubt at the end of the season as I thought the FA cup win and the way was accomplished looked like progress. In the tactical sense anyway, I thought we played that game really well and was intrigued to see what might happen going forward.

That was a mistake and probably let my emotions get the better of me in all honesty.

I thought at the time he deserved a crack under INEOS and the new structure and I was wrong. No shame in admitting that.

There has been no progress and his arrogance and constant refusal to acknowledge this has just worn me down.

I don't see any scenario where he makes it to Christmas at the moment.

Honestly think if INEOS had anything about them and were ruthless he'd be gone today as he embarrassed us and himself yesterday with both the performance and the bizarrre comments afterwards.

To be fair to you, United looked like an entirely different team against City. If ETH was able to organise his side as well as that every week, United would have qualified for the CL last season.

Moreover, it’s sadly rare to see someone change their mind in line with new evidence. After all, that final could have been United turning a corner. ETH might have attracted several elite players in the transfer window. They might have built on - not just the win, but the performance - on the final day of last season.

As it is, it looks like this season is more of the same, so you’ve adjusted your viewpoint based on that. Seems pretty healthy to me.

 

[sglowrider]

The football we've played under ten Hag almost makes me miss the Ole days

Tbf we had more 3+ goal wins than any manager since Fergie with Ole.


The past 18 months, we are lucky to score a goal at this point. In fact we are more likely to concerd 3 instead.

 

[croadyman]

To be fair to you, United looked like an entirely different team against City. If ETH was able to organise his side as well as that every week, United would have qualified for the CL last season.

Moreover, it’s sadly rare to see someone change their mind in line with new evidence. After all, that final could have been United turning a corner. ETH might have attracted several elite players in the transfer window. They might have built on - not just the win, but the performance - on the final day of last season.

As it is, it looks like this season is more of the same, so you’ve adjusted your viewpoint based on that. Seems pretty healthy to me.

Careful Erik will see that and start crying about the fact we didn't resign Amrabat this summer

 

[Wolfbot]

Just seen on the BBC that he's had the dreaded public vote of confidence from the board just three games in. Usually when this happens a manager is gone if they don't turn things around pronto.

 

[CassiusClaymore]

Just remembered that he was giving it the big one to Keano after that Fulham result as well. What a clown.

 

[RedDevil@84]

Just seen on the BBC that he's had the dreaded public vote of confidence from the board just three games in. Usually when this happens a manager is gone if they don't turn things around pronto.

That interview happened before Pool game. BBC trying to spin it as something they said after the Pool game.

 

[ScarleyUtd]

To be fair to you, United looked like an entirely different team against City. If ETH was able to organise his side as well as that every week, United would have qualified for the CL last season.

Moreover, it’s sadly rare to see someone change their mind in line with new evidence. After all, that final could have been United turning a corner. ETH might have attracted several elite players in the transfer window. They might have built on - not just the win, but the performance - on the final day of last season.

As it is, it looks like this season is more of the same, so you’ve adjusted your viewpoint based on that. Seems pretty healthy to me.

I can't figure out how we can play so well in that final but so badly nearly every other game. Every man in the team that day did their job so well – it was so cohesive, structured and well executed. And then this. I just don't know how that's possible. You get days like that, but surely not so much like that.

 

[Valencia Shin Crosses]

To be fair to you, United looked like an entirely different team against City. If ETH was able to organise his side as well as that every week, United would have qualified for the CL last season.

Moreover, it’s sadly rare to see someone change their mind in line with new evidence. After all, that final could have been United turning a corner. ETH might have attracted several elite players in the transfer window. They might have built on - not just the win, but the performance - on the final day of last season.

As it is, it looks like this season is more of the same, so you’ve adjusted your viewpoint based on that. Seems pretty healthy to me.

My issue is always that changing an opinion after a single 90 minutes of football is stupid. It’s such a small sample size that anything could happen as a one off, especially in a cup final.

Even then, we sort of played that final like some of our big games under Ole and co. in the past, it’s not like we had some novel approach and played them off the park. We defended our box very well, popped them with a single brilliant counter, and then were gifted the other goal on a hilarious mistake. Sure it was nice to finally see some sort of adjustment after a year straight of the same suicidal tactics from ETH, but I never thought it was “progress” in any real way and even if it had been you’d have needed to see similar progress for a run of 5-10 games to really evaluate either way.

That was always my issue with everyone being irrational and changing their minds on him after that game. If we had suddenly turned a corner in April and were finally looking better and more consistent as a team with clear direction and something to build on, culminating with that win, then sure I understand wanting to keep him.

 

[dwd]

To the 15% who want him to stay. Is it because you legitimately believe he's the best long term manager at United or simply because there isn't a suitable replacement available now if he were sacked today ?

Most of them don't even support United

 

[Valencia Shin Crosses]

I can't figure out how we can play so well in that final but so badly nearly every other game. Every man in the team that day did their job so well – it was so cohesive, structured and well executed. And then this. I just don't know how that's possible. You get days like that, but surely not so much like that.

It’s far easier to get a team to play cohesive defensive football than it is to be cohesive while attacking the other team. Especially for a one off cup final where you know every player will be willing to track back as much as needed. We managed it it certain huge games under Ole, Mourinho, and early in ETH’s time as well.

Much tougher to coach that same level of team cohesion when trying to actually go toe to toe with teams in an even game, because effort becomes far less important than actual understanding of your teams shape and having IQ and composure on the ball. When you’re defending the box for 70% of the game you don’t really need that, just hoof it away and reset if needed.

 

[John XII]

To the 15% who want him to stay. Is it because you legitimately believe he's the best long term manager at United or simply because there isn't a suitable replacement available now if he were sacked today ?

I voted back for several reasons, although I'm obviously far from happy and would not be surprised if he was sacked.

1. There must be something in the planning that the entire club structure see as positive to have kept him after last season.
2. We've spent a lot of money buying players to fit whatever structure and tactics have been discussed.
3. The club has been an absolute mess for years, I think sacking him now would play into the player power narrative.

 

[DJ_21]

Don’t understand why we don’t have a good system. One where we don’t get out played and out ran every game.

 

[Valencia Shin Crosses]

Tbf we had more 3+ goal wins than any manager since Fergie with Ole.


The past 18 months, we are lucky to score a goal at this point. In fact we are more likely to concerd 3 instead.

Ole was out of his depth mainly because he wasn’t sure how to coach a good build up structure to beat a pressing team (and didn’t have structure above him to find players to help this), but there’s no doubt he was brilliant at coaching transitional attacking patterns and where players needed to be and find each other when breaking at speed.

It’s why we’d have to sweat so many games, because the best way for us to score was to sort of let them come at us and then torch them on the counter. But there’s a night and day difference watching Ole counters compared to Ten Hag counters

 

[Scorpy]

I've got zero confidence in the guy's ability to turn it around. It's nothing new, it went for the entirety of last season. He's just tactically useless and stubborn.

 

[FortunaUtd]

Arteta and Klopp in their 3rd full season were already showing improvement in their teams, yet we are going backwards. Why no striker who can score regularly wast bought in I don’t understand. You can buy all the defenders you want, but you need to score to win a game

"Already showing improvement"? In his third full season Klopp got 97 points in the Premier League and won the Champions League

 

[UnitedSofa]

Funny how history repeats itself, how would Ole fair under INEOS?

 

[Woziak]

Baffled at the 186 Caf members who voted him to stay. But then you look at the list and see his staunchest supporters. @VP89 @BenitoSTARR @NLunited

They are pretty quiet though.

I think the start to this season has been underwhelming enough that we probably don’t need any more data to make a decision. I thought the way he set up against Liverpool was borderline mentally incompetent. The positioning of his defenders is moronic. Dalot, pinching in to “help with possession and buildup” was so far out of position when we lost the ball, that 3rd goal was an inevitability.

Bruno is right. Every team loses the ball, it’s how we react and what our shape is like after the turnover that matters.

I think Ten Hag has ruined Rashford.

I think Ten Hag is halfway to ruining Bruno.

I think he’s starting to ruin Garnacho and, most disturbingly, Mainoo, who should be protected at all costs.

Question to all of the Ten Hag supporters: Given where we are now, is there a future where you can actually see Ten Hag lifting the Premier League trophy as any club’s manager, much less Man United?

ETH will never lift the EPL because ever season he starts he’s under prepared, before 10 PL have been payed he’s normally lost 4 or 5 and you simply can’t recover from that.

I was hoping this year with him been given a second chance, he would have had time to anylyse the previous two premier league season starts and look for improvements, it’s small gains. Look at those first 5 PL games this season and target 3/4 wins 1/2 draws stay unbeaten and have 11-13 points but now he’ll be lucky to have 6/7.

Last season the club got 60 points and 8th place but managed 4 Points from Fulham(H), Liverpool (H), and Brighton (A) this season we have 3 Points and this is how ETH must be managed by Dan Ashworth add Palace(A) and Saints(A) who we can swap out for Sheffield United and that would be 7 points from those same 5 PL matches last season, ETH needs two wins but I think we’ll be lucky to get 1 draw and 1 defeat which means the club Must Sack him if he doesn’t get two wins!

You can’t afford to be 8/10 points behind your opponents top 4/5 after just 5 EPL games. Two must win games or he gets sacked !

 

[JPRouve]

There is a pretty decent argument that the tactics Ten Hag has them playing are actually so bad, that we don’t know what kind of football they can play stylistically. They probably can play a high press Ange-style high tempo. They also may be able to play a Brighton style possession + high press mix. We just don’t know because Ten Hag ball is so bad. I actually wouldn’t mind a pragmatist like Tuchel (by pragmatist, I mean can play several different styles).

In theory I agree. In practice the vast majority of our players have played, will play and are able to play in variety of styles without much issue we don't have much specialists.

 

[stevoc]

These sort of posts really annoy me.

Crticisie Ten Hag's style of play, criticise his daft comments after matches and I totally understand. But burying your head in the stand when it's reported INEOS identified De Ligt and Ten Hag confirms the same just because your evidence is "mate he's from Ajax" is just frustrating to debate with.

As for Zirkzee, there's hardly any interaction between the two. Zirkzee has spent most his career at Bayern or Bologna (with a loan in between I think in Belgium). He's a 34m striker at 23 years of age fitting the Wilcox and Ashworth model and he wasn't even first choice. Sesko was.

But yeah sure let's bucket him in the same because you know, dutch born.

Ditto.

We have a manager who has shown over several windows that he favours signings Dutch, Ajax and Eredivisie players. Said manager didn't sign a new contract and likely retains the transfer powers he had under the previous owners.

This summer we sign 3 players who are Dutch born and raised, 2 of which are his former Ajax players.

But no apparently Ineos were behind those signings.

I don't know for sure and neither do you but I know what I suspect based on Ten Hag's time at the club.

Eriksen, Malacia, Weighorst, Antony, Martinez, Onana, Amrabat.

 

[stevoc]

You’re 100% right and these posts are really tiring. Some posters go to incredible lengths to justify Zirkzee as a ten Hag signing just because of his passport. There’s enough to bash ETH with, but some people love to make up stuff, and say the weirdest things, just to push their agendas, like taking Sancho’s side over ten Hag, or claiming that he’s still the one identifying players and giving their names to Ineos, etc. They are doing exactly what you said: burying their heads in the sand.

Explain how saying Ten Hag is still the main driving force behind identifying our transfer targets, is 'bashing' him?

 

[VP89]

Ditto.

We have a manager who has shown over several windows that he favours signings Dutch, Ajax and Eredivisie players. Said manager didn't sign a new contract and likely retains the transfer powers he had under the previous owners.

This summer we sign 3 players who are Dutch born and raised, 2 of which are his former Ajax players.

But no apparently Ineos were behind those signings.

I don't know for sure and neither do you but I know what I suspect based on Ten Hag's time at the club.

Eriksen, Malacia, Weighorst, Antony, Martinez, Onana, Amrabat.

You've got problems with the timeline. I'm talking about INEOS and their approach and you're throwing names from previous windows.

Its been reported by the Athletic that de Ligt was an INEOS signing and Zirkzee has as much of an Ashworth footprint on it as any other transfer.

But you're basically being incredibly lazy, covering your ears and not looking at what the tier 1 reports suggest and instead go "DUTCH INNIT"