Ineos supported him in the summer and worked with him, they can’t sack him after a few weeks. They made a big mistake but it has to get worse before they do anything. He will win a couple of games and gets more comfortable. Than he will start losing again like last season and the debat will come back again: some people will say he just won a few games and give him more time, others will say he has to go. After that he will win a few games again. We will never get out of this loop. They made a big mistake this summer keeping him on.
Erik ten Hag | 2024/25 | Sacked
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Sorry, 13 before Christmas. 14 before new year.
I‘m really not sure and I can't get any sense out of ten Hag's attempts to explain it either.
But as far as I can tell, I think the idea behind chaos football is that if you break a game of football down and strip away everything else then the best 11 players will beat the other 11 more often than not. So if you turn the game into a complete mess, disrupt what the other team is trying to do by pressing high, win your individual defensive battles, and make the pitch big so your players have space to operate in then your superior quality will win you the game.
That could be completely wrong, but we‘re not helped here by ten Hag himself changing his mind on what he means on a weekly basis. There was a good bit of journalism from Carl Anka last season r.e. ten Hag‘s quotes about never being able to play like Ajax where he decided to check what ten Hag had been saying in Dutch to try and make sense of the quotes in English and found that he‘d said more or less what everyone had assumed he had been trying to say. One week later ten Hag had got push back on those quotes and pretended like he had been misquoted and had meant something else.
That’s some Mike Basset stuff. I was expecting him to tell the journo to “feck off” at the end and storm out.
I don't think Ugarte or any other signings will make much of a difference right now either. ETHs tactics / naive approach can't/shouldn't be fixed by individual players, they are all set up to fail.
I think winning the league is extremely hard in this era, and we don't even qualify for the CL half the time and when we do we humiliated in the group stages for the most part.
Tellingly though, the one things that's stayed constant throughout the last decade is that the underlying stats have never rated us as a team. Even in seasons we've finished in the top 4 or second the underlying stats have suggested we're not as good as the table says. That to me, gives away the quality of the managers we've had at the club.
| Season | xPts (Expected Points) | Actual Points | Table Position | xPts Position |
| 23/24 | 44.24 | 60 | 8th | 15th |
| 22/23 | 66.4 | 75 | 3rd | 5th |
| 21/22 | 54.52 | 58 | 6th | 8th |
| 20/21 | 65.64 | 74 | 2nd | 4th |
| 19/20 | 70.99 | 66 | 3rd | 4th |
| 18/19 | 61.86 | 66 | 6th | 4th |
| 17/18 | 62.33 | 80 | 2nd | 6th |
| 16/17 | 70.89 | 69 | 6th | 4th |
| 15/16 | 56.44 | 66 | 5th | 8th |
| 14/15 | 63.03 | 70 | 4th | 4th |
I struggle to understand why he chose to stay after the F.A. win. You got lucky, take it and run away.
If he's not sacked in the near month, we'll get to see him implode on TV.
If he's not sacked in the near month, we'll get to see him implode on TV.
Well of course the club will sack him with a view to replace him with a manager that they'll have a good idea about why that manager will make things better. I have a lot of faith in the new structure to engage in some sensible succession planning.
The club haven't done that yet, so the natural conclusion is that they aren't able to identify a manager who will make us better that's available. Given that your post is deferring to the knowledge of the club, I assume that you're happy with that decision?
He said that just regarding Ugarte.
Just watched a clip of the aftermatch presser and man has really lost the plot 
Going through my posts, I've been strongly ETH out since October last year. This sh!tshow comes as no surprise as it's clear ETH has no real identity to his teams and no idea how to manager in the Premier league. Speaking to some Dutch friends over the summer, they were totally not surprised;
At Ajax, ETH set up his teams to take advntage of the other teams weaknesses, he didn't have any style of play of his own. He didn't build a team to play a certain way and force other teams to react like SAF did, or City and Liverpool have. He'd change every week to take advantage of the opposition weaknesses- he let them determine how he played. This is exactly what we see him doing here, and it's not viable. In the Dutch league the standard is much lower, and generally Ajax have very good technical players that can adapt to the challenge of the opponent that week - this won't work at United, where we need a strong team identity, patterns of play and viable system. This won't get better.
Yesterday he has 2/3 of his own signings, 80M players he demanded not used on the bench, a keeper that can't stop a shot, an extra from The Walking Dead on the left wing - and most importantly, no PLAN.m He's spent the best part of half a billion to fix an issue that is HIM and his inability to coach this team.
I am at a loss. At this rate we'll be luck to stay up as Ugarte may help, but he won't fix the bigger problem.
At Ajax, ETH set up his teams to take advntage of the other teams weaknesses, he didn't have any style of play of his own. He didn't build a team to play a certain way and force other teams to react like SAF did, or City and Liverpool have. He'd change every week to take advantage of the opposition weaknesses- he let them determine how he played. This is exactly what we see him doing here, and it's not viable. In the Dutch league the standard is much lower, and generally Ajax have very good technical players that can adapt to the challenge of the opponent that week - this won't work at United, where we need a strong team identity, patterns of play and viable system. This won't get better.
Yesterday he has 2/3 of his own signings, 80M players he demanded not used on the bench, a keeper that can't stop a shot, an extra from The Walking Dead on the left wing - and most importantly, no PLAN.m He's spent the best part of half a billion to fix an issue that is HIM and his inability to coach this team.
I am at a loss. At this rate we'll be luck to stay up as Ugarte may help, but he won't fix the bigger problem.
After last season's FA cup win most United fans suddenly lost all objectivity, the overwhelmingly positive sentiment definitely played a part in him getting an extension. Everyone suddenly forgot the terrible defensive structure with gaping holes in midfield, 0 creativity, negative goal difference.
ETH can't even get us dominating a game, we can never pin a team into their box for any noteworthy period of time unless we are already a goal down.
He saw all the deficiencies last season and at no point made any changes to rectify the situation, how about we shut shop for a few games and build confidence like Fergie used to do. Just persisted with same god-awful football.
Even with the new coaching staff, it's been the same old, not enough improvements.
INEOS won't sack him yet, their decision to keep him will look amateurish. Will give him another 3 months and then assess.
ETH can't even get us dominating a game, we can never pin a team into their box for any noteworthy period of time unless we are already a goal down.
He saw all the deficiencies last season and at no point made any changes to rectify the situation, how about we shut shop for a few games and build confidence like Fergie used to do. Just persisted with same god-awful football.
Even with the new coaching staff, it's been the same old, not enough improvements.
INEOS won't sack him yet, their decision to keep him will look amateurish. Will give him another 3 months and then assess.
He is statistically the worst manager we've had post Fergie
What's interesting about that is the one season it says we underperformed and really should have finished higher than we actually did is 16/17 and I do remember us being incredibly unlucky that season in game after game. We missed so many chances every week, we were genuinely fun to watch that season. Might be the best football we've played consistently post Fergie.
So it feels like the stats matching the eye test. Good to know.
We're trying and failing for a quite few reasons
The reporter didn't go far enough for me.
When Ten Hag started reeling off the two trophies, the reporter should have come back with Palace 4-0, Liverpool 7 etc
When Ten Hag started reeling off the two trophies, the reporter should have come back with Palace 4-0, Liverpool 7 etc
You need very competent footballers to play such tight, boxed in football and a midfield multiple levels more skilled than what we have as a collective, yet we haven’t invested a single penny in skilled midfielders.
Ironic also that a manager that doesn’t respect midfield needs even more skilled midfielders to play his football than ones that do.
Do those who still believe in him actually believe in him, or are they doing it because they think believing in him is what they should be doing?
What I heard a lot last season was that we can't just keep changing managers and starting again, or fergie needed time
That is actually one of the most pathetic posts I've read on this forum and that's quite a feat.
Liverpool 7 will be remembered for a long time yes, but bad results happen to everyone. Awful to happen against the most hated rival.
Trophies are the name of the game
Bad results happen to Ten Hag a hell of a lot though, don’t they? Your ability to stomach and accept this level of football isn’t all that admirable. Surely we all have a breaking point, when will yours be?That is actually one of the most pathetic posts I've read on this forum and that's quite a feat.
Liverpool 7 will be remembered for a long time yes, but bad results happen to everyone. Awful to happen against the most hated rival.
Trophies are the name of the game
I have same vibes now as i had with Jose and Solskjaer at the end. Looking at our performances and not seeing how it will improve in any way.
With basically best 11, we had two even games with Fulham and Brighton and dominated by Liverpool. So what will change? Nothing.
We will not see his Ajax style here or any dominating style. Our future with him is to have 50:50 games against middle and lower clubs where both teams create only few chances and 4222 system against bigger sides where we play on a draw.
I really hope that Ineos will not react when season is already lost.
With basically best 11, we had two even games with Fulham and Brighton and dominated by Liverpool. So what will change? Nothing.
We will not see his Ajax style here or any dominating style. Our future with him is to have 50:50 games against middle and lower clubs where both teams create only few chances and 4222 system against bigger sides where we play on a draw.
I really hope that Ineos will not react when season is already lost.
That is how I see the plan
EtH has been good bringing youngsters through and coaching some players to be better. That's his job. That's why he's surrounded by other coach/manager material
Get the squad fixed and then bring in a top coach
In short, he's sacrificial
Who for instance ?
He has until Christmas.
That's enough time for the new signings to bed in and his striker to come back from injury.
If we can't play proactive football successfully by that point, it's done.
The target this season is top 4 and cup runs, because let's face it the attacking side work, for Hojlund, Garnacho and Amad, Zirkzee maybe as well, it's time they need. Senior pros are letting us down and it's going to take time for the new owners to rectify regardless of who's in charge
I have to believe this... That we're awaiting the right person to be available rather than rushing into another rebound relationship with anyone who has a pulse. The alternative is the new management ain't much better than the last.
You don't invest 3 years and over £600m of resource to be a cup team. Who cares about a Carabao and FA Cup when we playing boring, ineffective football and regularly get piped off our rivals and teams who aren't as good as ours in our own domestic league?That is actually one of the most pathetic posts I've read on this forum and that's quite a feat.
Liverpool 7 will be remembered for a long time yes, but bad results happen to everyone. Awful to happen against the most hated rival.
Trophies are the name of the game
Ten Hag never recovered from the 7-0 and we've been on a gradual decline ever since, including several more humiliating results and a change in style to the most kamikaze shit I've ever seen as a football fan. He hasn't a scooby.
It's beyond that. With the way we setup, you need at least an elite press resistant DLP and teammates that have the ability and awareness to pass the ball in the right space and move efficiently to create space and quick passing options and they need to be at the highest level possible because the setup isn't helping them at all.
The former is an individual skill level that is very rare and the latter is pure coaching. And you can't assume either of these things, you can only setup your team to be in these situations because you have the tools and not because you want it, no one would defend a manager that setup his attack around fast breaks when his best scorer is Inzaghi, you wouldn't build an attack around Rooney as a target man. Everyone would understand that only a genuine idiot would do that but we don't follow the same logic with midfielders. We also don't expect an attacker to create and score goals in a context that is totally removed from his teammates because that's not how Football works which is particularly daft when they are the ones that need the most structure, they are the ones that work in traffic and need to be supported by a sensible structure.
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Who is he?
He hasn't earned the right of a pass until Christmas. He was given a get out of jail free card for an entire season of rubbish football at the end of last season and had to make an immediate impact this season if he was to repay the trust that was (erroneously) shown in him.
Time is not a commodity he can ask for after what he has produced as Manchester United manager. He needs to make it work with what he has or be shown the door by the end of the month. Standards matter and we have none right now.
He needs to be given more time to instil his football philosophy and the board need more time to shift all the deadwood. He also needs more good players, specifically:
Use the season purely to bed the new/young players we got in. Then make 6 transfers, corresponding to the above positions between now and next August (incl. January window). Use the preseason without international football to get all the players (including new arrivals) singing from the same hymn sheet. Make a proper go of it next season. He needs more time.
- One LB because Shaw and Malacia are always injured and Dalot is not a LB.
- One CB to replace Maguire and Lindelof who are on their way out.
- Two CMs, a defensive one to replace Casemiro and a more all-rounder to replace Eriksen, since they are both cooked.
- Two wingers to replace Rashford and Antony who's are also done
Use the season purely to bed the new/young players we got in. Then make 6 transfers, corresponding to the above positions between now and next August (incl. January window). Use the preseason without international football to get all the players (including new arrivals) singing from the same hymn sheet. Make a proper go of it next season. He needs more time.
I was initially against him but Tuchel's pragmatism is much needed now.
I'm tired of watching this mess.
I'm tired of watching this mess.
Piss take or serious?
Individual quality is at play. Garnacho overhead kicks etc dragged us through last season.
And actually, as shit as last season was, it should justifiably have seen us finish bottom 6. Last season is an outlier even to this table because of the massive gap between actual and expected finish. We wont get as lucky this season and could finish bottom half if he is kept
Sorry.
Just don't see it with this guy.
No clue what the style of play is.
Constant errors in midfield.
Nope.
I'm done I think.
Just don't see it with this guy.
No clue what the style of play is.
Constant errors in midfield.
Nope.
I'm done I think.
Usually when a manager is in danger of being sacked and the team isn't doing well, they'll try and switch things up, maybe switch to a 3-5-2 or any other system at that but this guys keeps playing the same way. He may replace 1 or 2 players (Never the GK) but it's the same BS every week. It's crazy how stubborn he is, he is almost begging to be sacked. INEOS should not care if they are lambasted for sacking him soon after backing him, just sack him for the sake of the season. It's still very early to achieve something this year, give him more time and he'll give any new manager even more work to do and set us back further.
This is insane. Even if you need to replace all of the above, which seems rational, why would you want ETH to be the one managing all of that. Are we genuinely advocating for giving him two free pass seasons in a row, and possibly another one next year, with no expectations whatsoever? Is his job that easy?
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