Well I think it depends - Ten Hag is a good tactician and the more options we have, the better
Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24
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Well I think it depends - Ten Hag is a good tactician and the more options we have, the better
It's a useless, myopic metric that tells you almost nothing.
As an example, if you sign a bunch of players on free transfers and give them a large signing bonus and high wages (as is usually the case for top players who are out of contract), your "spend" for the purposes of net spend is $0.
And that is why they did not qualify for CL: a lack of investment. Eventually it will bite you in the arse.
Xhaka was used in a more advanced role last season:
And has since been replaced by Havertz, who is very much an AM.
@IrishRedDevil is correct. All of us, Liverpool and Arsenal look to primarily be setting up similarly this season. Two #8/#10s ahead of a DM with a defender moving in to form the box midfield that is in vogue at the moment. I haven't seen how City have been lining up this pre-season but last season they were doing the same with Stones moving into midfield.
Emphasis on the word "primarily" though as for given games they can mix it up.
But Xhaka is still a defensive box to box player, wherever you put him. And probably Arsenal would replace Xhaka with Rice as this "AM".
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Exactly. Mount’s skill set won’t change just by putting him into a different position. He is an attacking midfielder, but we already have Bruno who is a better attacking midfielder.
If you take City - in a simple way -
Rodri = Case (but Rodri better on the ball)
Bruno = KdB
However Mount is a completely different player from Gündogan and this won’t change even if Mount somehow managed to take the exact same positions and actions Gündogan takes every single time.
Same way by playing Bruno deeper at times (or even regularly), he may have some decent or even good games, but he will never turn into Scholes.
If you take City - in a simple way -
Rodri = Case (but Rodri better on the ball)
Bruno = KdB
However Mount is a completely different player from Gündogan and this won’t change even if Mount somehow managed to take the exact same positions and actions Gündogan takes every single time.
Same way by playing Bruno deeper at times (or even regularly), he may have some decent or even good games, but he will never turn into Scholes.
That doesn't make any sense. Would he still be a defensive box to box player if he was played as a striker or RB? Obviously I'm exaggerating to make a point. No matter what his underlying strengths are, he was being played as an 8, playing further upfield, close to the striker and left forward in the left half space between the left sideline and middle, which is where Mount is playing for us and Havertz for them.
Yet to see how Rice and Partey line up. I'm sure they will change around. But idea is for Havertz to play closer to the striker than true CM, similar to Odegaard
He's more naturally/traditionally a box to box player, which is why Arsenal have upgraded him to a more natural attacking midfielder in Havertz.
As per how they've been lining up in pre-season and Arteta's comments, they will primarily line up with Rice at DM with Havertz and Odegaard ahead of him.
Essentially all of these teams (City, Arsenal, Liverpool and us) are looking to play with two #10s ahead of a DM, bringing a defender in alongside the DM to keep balance and create a box shape in midfield.
@sullydnl @mav_9me
Right. This will be interesting to see how it goes.
With my limited knowledge, I'd predict this two #10 exercise will fail for Arsenal if they insist with Havertz and Odeegard as the two AMs.
With us, it may work, because Mount and Bruno both have insane energy for pressing and covering attacking-defensive duty, and Bruno is pretty good in deeper role.
Rice at AM would still be a defensive b2b player, positioned as AM. Yeah it makes it confusing what would you call this player. Probably you're right that he should still be called an AM.
Right. This will be interesting to see how it goes.
With my limited knowledge, I'd predict this two #10 exercise will fail for Arsenal if they insist with Havertz and Odeegard as the two AMs.
With us, it may work, because Mount and Bruno both have insane energy for pressing and covering attacking-defensive duty, and Bruno is pretty good in deeper role.
Rice at AM would still be a defensive b2b player, positioned as AM. Yeah it makes it confusing what would you call this player. Probably you're right that he should still be called an AM.
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Depends on what the role entails, what the duties are. For ex, if Rice was played in the Havertz role with the idea that he would connect the left forward with striker, then yes he would be playing as an AM. If on the other hand, he stays back more in support of Partey, plays deeper, then that's the traditional central midfielder. But that's not going to happen.
Whether they all can succeed anywhere close to City of course remains to be seen. Arsenal definitely were successful with it last year but might be harder with changing 2 players in the middle, Rice and Havertz. And we don't have the defenders to take care of transition defense imo. And Liverpool don't have the DM to take care of the transition defense and buildup.
Xhaka to Havertz as one of the AM is surely a big difference because they're almost opposite type of players.
But who knows. Arsenal still have good team, and that probably will get them through any style.
I thought ETH wished for a more technical, press resistant midfield. Between Bruno, Casemiro, Mount - none of them are particularly press resistant(especially Bruno who treats the ball like a hot potato).
I was hoping that we'll get a young, physical, technically brilliant ball carrier who is pretty comfortable in deeper areas and would help us progress the ball into the opponents half of the pitch -- Frenkie de Jong archetype. These types of players are my favorites(personal bias). Now it looks like we are going to resemble a gegenpressing(counter pressing), counterattacking side - similar to Klopp's Liverpool.
It's possible to win this way(probably even the highest honors), but it's not my preference. I guess i'm a perfectionist, obsessive control freak, like Guardiola
It seems pretty clear that Ten Hag was very keen on De Jong himself, so he’s obviously adapted his vision based on what’s available to him. Presumably he was going to play there instead of Casemiro, and we might’ve went with a more physical #8 ahead of him. I don’t know who else is out there but my impression is there really isn’t anyone available that’s anywhere close to de Jong in terms of press resistance. So when that option was off the table, it’s prudent to set up the team differently. There’s no point holding onto an ideal when you don’t have the materials to build it. At the same time, there’s no reason to assume Ten Hag has given up on the ideal. He’s just adding the other components when he can. I’d guess he’s still hoping for a de Jong type too.
You can’t have watched much of Xhaka last season? He scored as many league goals as Havertz for a reason, and was scoring and assisting at a similar rate to Gundogan (more overall, similar per 90).
All three were similar in terms of progressive passes and receipts (c. 11 per game); Havertz with more receipts, Gundogan with more passes, Xhaka equal on both. Xhaka actually made the least tackles per 90 (1.02 vs. 1.15 and 1.19) and only slightly more tackles and interceptions per 90 than Havertz, less than Gundogan. He had more “shot creating actions” than Havertz too (3.3 vs. 2.21), only slightly less than Gundogan (3.45).
For comparison, Rice had around 50% fewer progressive passes and receipts, and more than twice as many tackles and interceptions. Xhaka played a totally different role, and it was primarily offensive.
Yeah. My comment was based on visual observation on limited Arse games. Really never thought that Xhaka and Havertz are similar players but it seems like stats prove me wrong.
So Odegaard and Havertz as #10 might work then.
Getting exactly what he wants. Good to see.
https://www.theguardian.com/footbal...gs-request-for-player-lounge?CMP=share_btn_tw
‘Erik ten Hag had his request granted for a bespoke players’ lounge to be created at Old Trafford, after Manchester United refused similar proposals from the manager’s predecessors José Mourinho and Louis van Gaal.
The facility was signed off by the United chief operating officer, Collette Roche, after Ten Hag said it would help matchday preparation. Converting prime hospitality space in the stadium’s south stand will cost millions in lost revenue, some of which the club will recoup by no longer having to pay for The Lowry hotel as its pre-match base.’
https://www.theguardian.com/footbal...gs-request-for-player-lounge?CMP=share_btn_tw
‘Erik ten Hag had his request granted for a bespoke players’ lounge to be created at Old Trafford, after Manchester United refused similar proposals from the manager’s predecessors José Mourinho and Louis van Gaal.
The facility was signed off by the United chief operating officer, Collette Roche, after Ten Hag said it would help matchday preparation. Converting prime hospitality space in the stadium’s south stand will cost millions in lost revenue, some of which the club will recoup by no longer having to pay for The Lowry hotel as its pre-match base.’
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What that article doesn't tell us is that there was one in the South Stand for years, but it was done away with by Louis van Gaal for some reason. It became a warm-up room with a bunch of exercise bikes and stuff in it. So I hardly think he was then pestering management to give him a new one.
It's Louis Van Gaal, of course he could.
Still doing marvelously in getting rid of players that need to go. He publicly backs them and says he wants them to stay, which retains their value and keeps the player on side. But long term he's clearly happy to move them on and nudges them in that direction.
Ronaldo, de Gea, Maguire all needed to go but a lesser manager wouldn't have handled it as well. Especially the Ronaldo one. It was such a huge distraction and it had Ronaldo ***** frothing at the mouth but he didn't blink.
Loads of other players likely not at the standard have gone/are going too. Telles, Jones, VDB, Fred, Elanga, Henderson, Tuanzebe, Bishop, Bailly.
Likely that players like Williams, McTominay and Martial are ones he's happy to let go as well. He'll be happy to let go of Sancho if he doesn't rapidly improve too. I think same with Dalot/AWB as they're not at the levels he wants, but less of an urgent issue.
He's slowly raising the floor of this squad.
Ronaldo, de Gea, Maguire all needed to go but a lesser manager wouldn't have handled it as well. Especially the Ronaldo one. It was such a huge distraction and it had Ronaldo ***** frothing at the mouth but he didn't blink.
Loads of other players likely not at the standard have gone/are going too. Telles, Jones, VDB, Fred, Elanga, Henderson, Tuanzebe, Bishop, Bailly.
Likely that players like Williams, McTominay and Martial are ones he's happy to let go as well. He'll be happy to let go of Sancho if he doesn't rapidly improve too. I think same with Dalot/AWB as they're not at the levels he wants, but less of an urgent issue.
He's slowly raising the floor of this squad.
Article in the Mirror this morning about him pushing for a new players lounge at OT. Article mentioned LvG and Jose asked for it also but it was never granted.
This is the part that has impressed me the most, played the media at the same time too. Gave them nothing and setting his own narrative.
ETH has never been like Guardiola though ? I don't know where this narrative came from that he prefers possession based approach.I thought ETH wished for a more technical, press resistant midfield. Between Bruno, Casemiro, Mount - none of them are particularly press resistant(especially Bruno who treats the ball like a hot potato).
I was hoping that we'll get a young, physical, technically brilliant ball carrier who is pretty comfortable in deeper areas and would help us progress the ball into the opponents half of the pitch -- Frenkie de Jong archetype. These types of players are my favorites(personal bias). Now it looks like we are going to resemble a gegenpressing(counter pressing), counterattacking side - similar to Klopp's Liverpool.
It's possible to win this way(probably even the highest honors), but it's not my preference. I guess i'm a perfectionist, obsessive control freak, like Guardiola
Because people looked at league possession stats from his Ajax side and put two and two together and got five.
They dominated games, but it doesn't mean it was a possession based style of play.
good to see the club completely backing Erik in the transfer market but also in real footballing decisions that are beneficial to the squad
Oh we countered when we had to. Not Cattenacio style but possession was far from holy.
Even Guardiola isn't the possession freak he used to be. This city side is far more direct than his Barcelona side for instance. All 3 of them (Klopp, Guardiola, Ten Hag) are amongst the best managers in the world and all have become fairly similar in style. All want to press and be on the front foot, and have averaged over 60% possession. Of course there are differences but otherwise they are all pretty similar.
Wonder how he is feeling about decision to end interest in Kane now Spurs have sold him
I thought ETH wished for a more technical, press resistant midfield. Between Bruno, Casemiro, Mount - none of them are particularly press resistant(especially Bruno who treats the ball like a hot potato).
I was hoping that we'll get a young, physical, technically brilliant ball carrier who is pretty comfortable in deeper areas and would help us progress the ball into the opponents half of the pitch -- Frenkie de Jong archetype. These types of players are my favorites(personal bias). Now it looks like we are going to resemble a gegenpressing(counter pressing), counterattacking side - similar to Klopp's Liverpool.
It's possible to win this way(probably even the highest honors), but it's not my preference. I guess i'm a perfectionist, obsessive control freak, like Guardiola
Yeah, I prefer the technical elegance these players can deliver too. However, as long as Pep is in the league you'll never be able to beat him at his own game.
Spurs were not going to sell Kane to us even if we offered 20m more and we don't have that kind of money anyway.
It was the right choice. Just make sure we go and get Ferguson or Osihmen next summer (or another good striker).
Quite honestly I think we should try for Toney,my gut feeling is that Osimhen gonna still be too much money next summer
Osimhen's new contract he's supposedly about to sign will have a release clause.
It will be spicy (prob around €150m) but not crazy if other areas of the team are looking solid and we have Qatari owners.
As for Toney, he's quite old now (thought he'd be closer to 30, he'll be 28 next year) and the competition will be significant. I can see him at Arse or London cowboys.
Wouldn't say 28 is too old at all,however your point about a possible release clause in Osimhen's new contract which I hadn't considered
Well, it will be a release clause or he'll have one year left and I don't think he's signing a new deal without the clause.
As for Toney being old, indeed I was wrong there. I just don't think he'll come to us when Arsenal have such an open goal for an actual striker (Jesus doesn't count).
The question is whether Toney will be the same Toney who wouldn't have played for 8 months by the time he is available. It will be a risk then.
Imagine being off for 4 weeks and they have to implement hard pre-season training sessions. Being out for 8 months is huge for footballers at this level.
There’s no doubt about being away from matches for 8 months being massive; but wasn’t there some form of appeal on the ban and they negotiated he was still allowed to actively train and be a part of the squad day-to-day on the training ground for most of the ban?
So while he’ll be missing match sharpness and probably match fitness - he will have been training daily so his general fitness will be high already and he’ll still be training with the same team as he always was. It’s not as if they’ll negate him from training - it’s in their best interest to keep him fit and involved so he could potentially hit the ground running for them, and having better players in training benefits the whole squad.
He probably won’t have to go severe pre-season training at all. I could be misremembering though.
Erik should have someone monitoring progress and if he is training well despite not being able to play then stick a bid in sometime in January
i think that same sentiment is felt by the gaffer for the young lad, who's will go unnamed, has been shown doing some private training himself
will they be as good after such a long lay off
Toney, if the money is right, isn't a bad gamble at all
I see what you did there.
I’ve heard better…
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