Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24

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But SAF wasn't one of a kind in the regard he was a manager that decided pretty much everything, until about 10 years or so that was pretty much the norm in English football
SAF had a free ticket to manage United for as long as he wanted (under the condition United kept winning stuff).
So especially when Glazers took over and once United started winning the league again he probably told them he will stay for at least a few more years.
So he could decide on transfers as he would be here to integrate them and get the best out of them.
I am sure Klopp and especially Pep at their current clubs also have a high input with transfers, at least more than a RM or Bayern manager.
And still even under SAF we had a plan B which was also very successful. Like we don’t get Shearer/Batistuta/Ronaldinho … then have alternatives ready. I also doubt SAF himself/alone scouted the likes of Vidic, Evra or Chicarito. So a structure even if not that strict was always in place, including in the 90s and afterwards.

Whereas with a new manager like ETH there’s always a risk it doesn’t work out. He should have a say in the transfers but not the final say / he should also listen to the scouts/the recruiting team. I mean we can’t afford too many expensive Antony like transfers.
There must be a balance between listening to the manager and not fulfilling all of his wishes.
Once the success increases this balance will also gradually increase in ETH’s favour.
 
For those interested here is a really detailed article about the mess that is our recruiting department in the post SAF era. Its very long but insightful.

https://theathletic.com/4071426/202...t-trackerman-ten-hags-influence-and-a-grades/

This quote basically sums it up in a tldr fashion:

Tracing the exact origins of signings at United is tricky.

A former staff member says: “If they (the signed player) do well, there are about six people saying, ‘Yes, that’s me’. When it goes badly, you cannot find out who is accountable for that decision.”
 


Imagine a scenario where he walks, he doesn't need this shit man

New manager
CL qualification
Club feck up transfer in summer
Struggle in next season
More struggle
Manager sacked
New manager
....
 
I'd guess it depends on what he was told/promised when he took the job, none of us know what that is or was
He probably doesn’t care about the owners if he can get the names he wants this window which is probably another £150m plus of spending. No doubt he was told that was realistic each summer and he could look at previous years given we’ve generally always spent big and he achieved the main revenue generating feat this season of CL football.
 
SAF had a free ticket to manage United for as long as he wanted (under the condition United kept winning stuff).
So especially when Glazers took over and once United started winning the league again he probably told them he will stay for at least a few more years.
So he could decide on transfers as he would be here to integrate them and get the best out of them.
I am sure Klopp and especially Pep at their current clubs also have a high input with transfers, at least more than a RM or Bayern manager.
And still even under SAF we had a plan B which was also very successful. Like we don’t get Shearer/Batistuta/Ronaldinho … then have alternatives ready. I also doubt SAF himself/alone scouted the likes of Vidic, Evra or Chicarito. So a structure even if not that strict was always in place, including in the 90s and afterwards.

Whereas with a new manager like ETH there’s always a risk it doesn’t work out. He should have a say in the transfers but not the final say / he should also listen to the scouts/the recruiting team. I mean we can’t afford too many expensive Antony like transfers.
There must be a balance between listening to the manager and not fulfilling all of his wishes.
Once the success increases this balance will also gradually increase in ETH’s favour.

In his last decade SAF used regional scouts for the first reports, then it was a positional coach with Lawlor and finally Lawlor and Martin Ferguson. With Martin Ferguson being the most trusted advisor and the one making first contacts with other clubs officials.
 
For those interested here is a really detailed article about the mess that is our recruiting department in the post SAF era. Its very long but insightful.

https://theathletic.com/4071426/202...t-trackerman-ten-hags-influence-and-a-grades/

This quote basically sums it up in a tldr fashion:
The Athletic also wrote the below article about Solskjaer pushing for the Ronaldo signing. The mess started at the manager level and filters down naturally.

Whitwell/Crafton: "Solskjaer placed a call to chief executive Ed Woodward with one aim — he wanted to know if United could do the deal instead. It was a quick conversation. Woodward agreed instantly and set about negotiating with Ronaldo’s Italian club, Juventus."

https://theathletic.com/2794203/202...n-to-manchester-united-how-the-deal-was-done/

Jonathan Northcroft in his 'The Times' column went on to say that Solskjaer ignored the advice of his coaching staff to sign Ronaldo because he believed Ronaldo's goals would make up for his off the ball deficiencies.

Below is a article about how incompetent the Liverpool recruitment/data departments led by Michael Edwards were under Brendan Rodgers. But the same recruitment/data department start to excel under the head coach Jurgen Klopp. The answer as to why is very simple.

 
Fergie created a structure at the club which he relied on to sign players hence he trusted the judgement of the scouts. Fergie wasn't identifying the players to sign but he was rather overseeing the staffing and strategy on the football side of the club and hence he set the direction for the football structure to follow. Wenger did the same at Arsenal when arrived in 1996 and created a recruitment structure which was led by Damien Comolli.

All the top teams sign players by working with their head coach. Rangnick has even gone on record and said he didn't sign a first team player if the head coach didn't agree.

Mourinho and Solskjaer went against the grain and utilised people independently from the club's recruitment structure to sign players. It was reported that the scouts told Woodward about Maguire not being any better than the options that the club already had it's disposal and he shouldn't be signed under Mourinho. Mourinho then went to war with the club's recruitment structure and started maligning them in public by stating how good West Ham's scouts were due to them identifying talents like Issa Diop. Solskjaer comes in with Phelan as his advisor and Woodward seemingly ignores the head scouts and allows Maguire to be signed with Maguire's former manager at Hull, Mike Phelan likely playing a key role.

Both Solskjaer and Mourinho were reportedly relying on their personal scouts and David Ornstein reported about Solskjaer not having communication with the club's recruitment department and Sokskjaer and Phelan were seen scouting players in several stadiums around Europe. Fergie and Wenger didn't operate like this and they developed their club's football structure and utilised the resources of their club's which benefited both the club and manager.

Erik ten Hag from the evidence at hand is working with John Murtough and the scouts, data and video analytics teams. He doesn't have independent scouts from what I've heard and read, and he's part of a football structure that is looking to streamline the process, which has only started happening now since Fergie retired. So if ten Hag is interested in signing someone he's familiar with, he has to inform the heads of scouting who will run the rule over said players. And it has been reported about ten Hag asking the scouts to compile reports on players he knows about. And that is normal at clubs who have a streamlined approach to their football structure.

Paranoia is deep among many fans on here, which is understandable. But the only issue I see right now are the owners who need to back the team below. And this is a team of people who need the backing on the football side of the club.

John Murtough: Head of football
Erik ten Hag: Head coach
Andy O'Boyle (deputy head of football)
Matt Hargreaves: (transfer/contract negotiations)
Jose Mayorga/Simon Wells (head scouts)
Dominic Jordan (head of data science)

And the article below from the people at the transfer ground guru from January 2017, goes into more detail about the scouts that were brought in and how no stone was left unturned in bringing the best in class recruiters.


https://trainingground.guru/articles/man-utd-scouts-summoned-for-meeting-after-huge-overhaul

Woodward put Lawlor and Bout in charge of the scouts at first team level and allowed Solskjaer and Mourinho to operate independently from the scouts. And that there is Man Utd's problem and why we couldn't develop the football structure to a high level. Liverpool had the same issues under Rodgers until they hired a head coach in Klopp who came in and revived a much ridiculed football structure that was led by Michael Edwards.

I love reading your insights, mate!
 
If this is true, I'm not sure what he expected? The club has operated this way for a long time. Did he just join blindly, without doing his homework, or was he lied to during the interview process?
Glazers have no problem lying to the fans, I would be very surprised if they had much problem lying to managers.
 
I love reading your insights, mate!
Cheers mate, appreciate it.

It's about supporting ten Hag and the team going forward and I just hope we can all unite and support the man instead of waiting for him to slip up. Because it seems there is a pattern with some fans who were unequivocal in their support for previous managers but are quick to criticise ten Hag.
 
There’s a good chance he leaves next season if he feels he isn’t backed and left hung out to dry.
From what the likes of Mitten and Whitwell have said recently, he knows his worth. He seems impatient and recognises the chance to progress is quicker than many say it should take for a rebuild.

Yeah if he feels this club don't match his ambition then we would deserve to lose him. These yankee leeches have already lost us players on free's and now is happening to the Women's team too
 
Maybe I'm naive but considering the billions the glazers will make selling, it seems to me a wise decision from a business perspective to allocate sufficient funds for transfers. After all, you want to showcase your merchandise in the best possible way
 
Why? It's not the job of random redcafe posters to be discovering players, that's what a scouting network is for. However, I (and a lot of other people) find it hard to believe that across all leagues in the entirety of the footballing world, Weghorst was the best option that was available for a cheap price.

By the same logic, it's pointless for those posters to criticize because they don't have enough information to judge whether there was another player available or not.
 
Positives:
  • He stabilized the teams decline, improved the spirit overall, so he did great there.
  • A trophy
  • We secured top four, but, Chelsea’s terrible season and bad early performances by Liverpool had played some factor.
  • Adding quality players like Casemiro, Martinez, and Ericsson
  • Improved players like Wan Bissaka, Rashford, Dalot(?), Fred(?)
Negatives
  • Our results as well as the performances against the top 6 teams were terrible, I’d say he is the one mostly to blame with.
  • Questionable recruitment in Antony(expensive!), Weghors(terrible),
  • Left key positions exposed without a backup plan (Striker role - Weghors should not have been here in the first place)
  • Some heavy losses (the Liverpool game!)
  • Poor performances in decisive matches (Europa league against Sevilla, FA cup final )
All in all, he did a good job but IMO season could have been better. He definitely needs a backing to succeed and he also needs to learn from the mistakes this season for us to go head to head with the top teams.
We beat all the top six teams mate.

Weghorst is not on him, he wasn‘t backed to get a top striker.

The Antony fee was because the club dithered, then panicked after the first two games. He should have been signed for 70 million earlier.

Antony will come good. Grealish had a shite first season and cost more.
 
Cheers mate, appreciate it.

It's about supporting ten Hag and the team going forward and I just hope we can all unite and support the man instead of waiting for him to slip up. Because it seems there is a pattern with some fans who were unequivocal in their support for previous managers but are quick to criticise ten Hag.
I hated Mourinho, but after he was appointed I was positive and hopeful. I was wrong though, he was shit for us.
 
My end of season grade for the man is an A-.

His record speaks for itself. How he managed the circus was masterful. My only quarrel arises from his relative underuse of two young players who were desperate and ready for more time and impressed when they played, usually better than the players ahead of them in the pecking order -- Garnacho and Pellistri -- but that's a very small quarrel.

If there were a way to give a grade between A- and a A I would do so.
 
My end of season grade for the man is an A-.

His record speaks for itself. How he managed the circus was masterful. My only quarrel arises from his relative underuse of two young players who were desperate and ready for more time and impressed when they played, usually better than the players ahead of them in the pecking order -- Garnacho and Pellistri -- but that's a very small quarrel.

If there were a way to give a grade between A- and a A I would do so.
Garnacho played a lot. I don‘t know why we didn‘t see Pellestri more, there should be good reasons for it.
 
Garnacho played a lot. I don‘t know why we didn‘t see Pellestri more, there should be good reasons for it.

Iqbal didn't get much of an opportunity either,wonder what Pellistri has to do in order to make that proper breakthrough next season
 
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Garnacho played a lot. I don‘t know why we didn‘t see Pellestri more, there should be good reasons for it.

Garnacho came on too late in too many games, most of which he did not start, although I appreciate that given his youth he had to be handled with some care.
 
I don‘t care who does the scouting as long as we get proper players.

Since Ten Hag came, our new signings have fight and spirit in them.

Sancho and Martial seem to lack that for whatever reason.
 
My end of season grade for the man is an A-.

His record speaks for itself. How he managed the circus was masterful. My only quarrel arises from his relative underuse of two young players who were desperate and ready for more time and impressed when they played, usually better than the players ahead of them in the pecking order -- Garnacho and Pellistri -- but that's a very small quarrel.

If there were a way to give a grade between A- and a A I would do so.

Exactly my thoughts. What Ten Hag has done this season, his FIRST season in what is a poisoned chalice, is nothing short of a miracle. A lot of us seems to have forgot how awful we were last season under Ole and Rangnick. If I am to nitpick, the only drawback with him thus far is his blind faith in De Gea.
 
Exactly my thoughts. What Ten Hag has done this season, his FIRST season in what is a poisoned chalice, is nothing short of a miracle. A lot of us seems to have forgot how awful we were last season under Ole and Rangnick. If I am to nitpick, the only drawback with him thus far is his blind faith in De Gea.

He needs to cut out the batterings that we have suffered at the hands of City,Brentford and of course scousers as well
 
If I am to nitpick, the only drawback with him thus far is his blind faith in De Gea.
Tbf it's not like he'd have had any better choice.

Anyway I know it's only June and tbh I don't want to sound annoying but looking at how Madrid bought Bellingham and probably Kane soon just get the takeover done asap ffs. Or by then there's probably nothing good left.
 
There is no way Ten Hag will be sacked next year

Ddg as our first choice GK will make it really difficult for him. He may survive one season... it will be close. But if DDG carries on to the next season he is 100% a goner in 2 yrs.
 
He needs to cut out the batterings that we have suffered at the hands of City,Brentford and of course scousers as well

This goes without saying. The manner by which we crumbled like shortcrust pastry in those games is unacceptable and needs to be addressed pronto. It's a mentality thing after years of mismanagement.
 
Cheers mate, appreciate it.

It's about supporting ten Hag and the team going forward and I just hope we can all unite and support the man instead of waiting for him to slip up. Because it seems there is a pattern with some fans who were unequivocal in their support for previous managers but are quick to criticise ten Hag.

Couldn't agree more. He's done all that could reasonably be expected of him so far, and I hope the club back him this summer, too. He deserves unanimous support from the fanbase.
 
If he gets the players in that he wants and doesn't finish top 4 he might, especially if we flop in the CL badly
Sorry but this is nonsense. You may as well say if we lose every game he’ll be gone.
This is as sensible as the top 4 thread was all season
 
Tbf it's not like he'd have had any better choice.

Anyway I know it's only June and tbh I don't want to sound annoying but looking at how Madrid bought Bellingham and probably Kane soon just get the takeover done asap ffs. Or by then there's probably nothing good left.

Yeah he must be finding it so hard to just keep calm with all these ownership delays
 
Ddg as our first choice GK will make it really difficult for him. He may survive one season... it will be close. But if DDG carries on to the next season he is 100% a goner in 2 yrs.
We just had the 2nd best defence in the League. Our failing was more about us can't score goals. If EtH can't fix that goalscoring issue, that's main reason he'll be gone.
 
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We just had the 2nd best defence in the League. Our failing was more about us can't score goals. If EtH can't fix that goalscoring issue, that's main reason he'll be gone.

Yep, and just under 40% of the league goals we conceded came in 3 matches, which is a stat I'll never be able to wrap my head around. If I recall correctly I don't think we scored more than one goal in any of the matches he made a glaring error in too
 
Yep, and just under 40% of the league goals we conceded came in 3 matches, which is a stat I'll never be able to wrap my head around. If I recall correctly I don't think we scored more than one goal in any of the matches he made a glaring error in too
Yeah. We're 30 goals away from Arsenal. Meanwhile, we've conceded some games with freak results, like that Brentford, City and Liverpool and still came 2nd best defensively.

It's obvious where the main issue lies.
 
Yeah. We're 30 goals away from Arsenal. Meanwhile, we've conceded some games with freak results, like that Brentford, City and Liverpool and still came 2nd best defensively.

It's obvious where the main issue lies.
No, no, no, DDG must go because we'll never be a possession team with him, we can't push City with him in the team - or so I keep being told, apparently we will create more chances this way, not sure who'll score them though
 
No, no, no, DDG must go because we'll never be a possession team with him, we can't push City with him in the team - or so I keep being told, apparently we will create more chances this way, not sure who'll score them though

It's not completely without merit, but ETH and the club are still in the process of reconstructing the squad after 3 years of gross mismanagement in the transfer market, which means they have to prioritize and ask the question of which position can we least afford to leave as is.
 
No, no, no, DDG must go because we'll never be a possession team with him, we can't push City with him in the team - or so I keep being told, apparently we will create more chances this way, not sure who'll score them though

David will eventually go, but EtH can manage with him as long as the other pieces of the squad improve. David is being phased out and with him being the only recognized GK, United will sign at least one GK this summer.

Allison and Ederson, more so Allison, were final pieces to the puzzle for top teams all while the squad around GK was built and principles laid.
 
David will eventually go, but EtH can manage with him as long as the other pieces of the squad improve. David is being phased out and with him being the only recognized GK, United will sign at least one GK this summer.

Allison and Ederson, more so Allison, were final pieces to the puzzle for top teams all while the squad around GK was built and principles laid.
It's not completely without merit, but ETH and the club are still in the process of reconstructing the squad after 3 years of gross mismanagement in the transfer market, which means they have to prioritize and ask the question of which position can we least afford to leave as is.
Don't disagree, I was being a bit sarcastic, some folks are dead set on the idea that the GK issues is more important than the ST issue
 
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