Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24

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Looking in hindsight ( :wenger: ) two things really fecked Erik up this sesson;
1. Casemiro being absent in 10 PL games
2) We didn't had fully fit Martial whole season (unlike City and Spurs with their no9s).
We would be really close to Arsenal now. Or at least we would be nailed for top4 so we would have luxury to rest players in PL. Fully fit Martial would give us an edge in at least 5 or 6 games where we lost points.
 
We have very rarely been able to field our best eleven, either through suspensions or through injury. Give him another summer with a proper budget and i feel our squad will be in far better shape. The drop off between first 11 and bench is unbelievable for a top team.
 
BBer13 said:
We have very rarely been able to field our best eleven, either through suspensions or through injury. Give him another summer with a proper budget and i feel our squad will be in far better shape. The drop off between first 11 and bench is unbelievable for a top team.
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Completely agree we would be better off without all the injuries and suspensions. He needs to coach as much as possible with these players more possession based style as that would help also
 
HookedOnAPhelan said:
A 70% win rate is genuinely phenomenal given this is his first season. Pep has a 73.3% win rate this season, while Arteta is at 71%.

Finish the season in the top 4 I'll be very happy. Throw in the FA cup and I'll be over the moon.
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He’s been a revelation but perspective, he’s clearly still has a lot to learn about English football and the English PL. His record here is far less impressive with a win rate of 58.6% and Av Goals scored just 1.55 extrapolate that to the end of season and you finish with P38 W22 D7 L9 GS 59 GC GC 49 PTS 73 and probably 4th place which is fine but to challenge for the PL Title, he needs to get a win rate of high 60’s low 70’s in PL which means he has to seriously rethink his away strategy and tactics.
 
Woziak said:
He’s been a revelation but perspective, he’s clearly still has a lot to learn about English football and the English PL. His record here is far less impressive with a win rate of 58.6% and Av Goals scored just 1.55 extrapolate that to the end of season and you finish with P38 W22 D7 L9 GS 59 GC GC 49 PTS 73 and probably 4th place which is fine but to challenge for the PL Title, he needs to get a win rate of high 60’s low 70’s in PL which means he has to seriously rethink his away strategy and tactics.
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He's in his first season. Pep finished 4th and won feck all in his first season at City. Klopp finished 8th and won feck all (and 4th and won feck all in his first full season).

But hey, maybe you can teach him about English football and how he should rethink his away strategy and tactics.
 
HookedOnAPhelan said:
He's in his first season. Pep finished 4th and won feck all in his first season at City. Klopp finished 8th and won feck all (and 4th and won feck all in his first full season).

But hey, maybe you can teach him about English football and how he should rethink his away strategy and tactics.
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Good post.
 
HookedOnAPhelan said:
By the way I love how some people with complete confidence state that "he's made mistakes this season", as if they are the arbiters of managerial competence from their cozy armchairs with the benefit of hindsight.
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Exactly that even pep and sir Alex made mistakes, it’s how you learn from them that matters and ETH looks a smart cookie so I think we can say he’s learnt a lot this season and you got to love his resilience and defiance to stand by his actions and his decisions.
 
It made me laugh yesterday listening to Robbie Savage spend 5 minutes talking about how EtH should think of taking Bruno off (even through the second half had only just begun) only to then criticise EtH for taking Bruno off when the game was 2-2 :rolleyes:

You can never please everyone but EtH is doing an amazing job so far, saw a tweet saying he has won more games in his first 50 than Pep or Klopp did, and that's without a first team CF.
 
HookedOnAPhelan said:
He's in his first season. Pep finished 4th and won feck all in his first season at City. Klopp finished 8th and won feck all (and 4th and won feck all in his first full season).

But hey, maybe you can teach him about English football and how he should rethink his away strategy and tactics.
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Your missing the point, I’m a huge fan and I think by the nature of the man he is as honest as they come, he will tell you that himself as he does in press briefings all the time, ETH doesn’t duck or hide and will always take responsibility, so by his own admission the PL has surprised him by the level of the competition and the intensity of the game.

He has said that the team needs to be smarter in away games and especially during in game management, he’s already aware, give him another £200m this summer and I’m hugely confident about his ability to implement his true ideas not one’s which are mostly adapted to his current playing squad.

Hope this clears this up, but yes he’s still learning and will improve dramatically next season providing he gets backed and he can shape the squad the way he wants not the way new owners may want!
 
evil_geko said:
It was not a poor move at all, and Ten Hag explained it all in conference and called out all hindsight masters. Call out all armchair "Captain Hindsight" managers Erik, loved it!
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He can say what he wants. It was an awful move and costed us the game. That's what happened. Bury your head in the sands if you want.
 
Oldyella said:
Gets pelters for not resting Rashford and the player picking up an injury in a game we were 2-0 and coasting in.

Gets pelters for resting players in a game we were 2-0 up and coasting in.
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The games were nothing alike.

One is a 2-legged cup tie where every goal matters. If Everton scored 1 and it finished 2-1, it’s still 3 points to us. If Sevilla make it 2-1, return fixture is suddenly quite tough. That alone means you can’t rest players too early. Not to mention subs were made 15 mins earlier this time around.
 
I think the argument that everything is easy with hindsight can be spurious reasoning at times.

Sometimes it's true. I'd say when he's getting pelters for not taking Rashford off and he gets injured, that's just nonsense with the benefit of hindsight. The type of thing that can happen now, next week, in two weeks that he gets injured - there's feck all you can do as a manager except listen to your medical advisers and yes...you have to rely on your fecking best players. So if anyone has evidence he did not listen to them and risked Rashford beyond what was reasonable, I would be all ears and agree that he messed up. Otherwise I'd say that's just football.

But I don't think you can say that every time he takes somebody off the pitch, or puts somebody onto the pitch and it doesn't work out that it's about being Captain Hindsight. Or when tactically something does not work, he can't be criticised because he didn't know it wouldn't work in advance. That's also football, isn't it? You make a decision and it either works, or it does not. You get judged on the output, not the decision taken in a vacuum. If the output of a footballing decision is further loss of control of the game, then how can that be unreasonable to question? If that reasoning is to be followed through, you can never question the manager after the fact, which is simply not how football or indeed life works.

So I'd say last night wasn't the manager's finest hour. But that's going to happen. If there's a manager out there that gets every single game in the season correct I'd like to know who they are.
 
el3mel said:
He can say what he wants. It was an awful move and costed us the game. That's what happened. Bury your head in the sands if you want.
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Very much a causation - correlation situation this. It happened in this one off game where we missed our chances for 3-0 even after the subs, and we scored 2 freak own goals with an injury. Shit happens. That's it.
 
Woziak said:
He’s been a revelation but perspective, he’s clearly still has a lot to learn about English football and the English PL. His record here is far less impressive with a win rate of 58.6% and Av Goals scored just 1.55 extrapolate that to the end of season and you finish with P38 W22 D7 L9 GS 59 GC GC 49 PTS 73 and probably 4th place which is fine but to challenge for the PL Title, he needs to get a win rate of high 60’s low 70’s in PL which means he has to seriously rethink his away strategy and tactics.
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High 60’s win rate is not enough, one normally needs to win at least 27/28 games to win the league which equals a win rate of 71-74%.
There have and there will always be injuries and suspensions, almost every season.
ETH from next season will need to come up with a strategy to use the squad better. And it’s nothing too complicated as for most managers and teams this should be focus on PL and CL and rotate for domestic cup competitions.
 
Could be a hard slog for the rest of the season now with the injuries to our first choice centre backs and questions over when Rashford, Shaw will be back, can Martial stay fit etc. Don't want to be pessimistic but winning the FA cup and EL AND qualifying for top 4 is a huge ask for this squad.

Don't give a feck about performances now just hope he can manage us through this.
 
Let's get to the end of the season before judging if he's had a good or bad season.

Right now it's good, but having the chuckle brothers back in defence for the next 10 or so games could derail everything.

We need to make top 4, regardless of who plays in defence. It's down to the coach to find a way with the players he has.
 
always_hoping said:
Decent all things considered.

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That's outstanding. Alright, some of those in UEL, but it's still good going.
 
bosnian_red said:
Very much a causation - correlation situation this. It happened in this one off game where we missed our chances for 3-0 even after the subs, and we scored 2 freak own goals with an injury. Shit happens. That's it.
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If we convinced ourselves such results are only due to luck or having a one off day, then we'll never improve.
 
el3mel said:
If we convinced ourselves such results are only due to luck or having a one off day, then we'll never improve.
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This result in particular was largely due to not taking our chances and shit luck.. Sevilla did feck all and lucked a draw. Not because we made subs, but because random deflections. You have to pick your times when to make subs, this was a reasonable point to make them. Nobody is saying "don't reinforce the squad it's fine", nobody is saying that we are great at controlling games... That has nothing to do with the subs that were made. We made them to deal with injuries, to not get players sent off and to not injure Martial. Sancho was the only random sub that wasn't needed, but not like he was playing well anyway, but you could argue "save the 5th sub always in case of injuries".
 
You can only learn through your mistakes. And hopefully over time he will be able to build a squad with depth. Having said that, he needs to look at the fitness / sports science team as I feel our players get injured way too easily.
 
If we don't get top 4 now, without our 2 best attackers and 2 best defenders, I say he is no better than any of the others since 2013, and we should sack him.
 
mav_9me said:
If we don't get top 4 now, without our 2 best attackers and 2 best defenders, I say he is no better than any of the others since 2013, and we should sack him.
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Having injuries is definitely something no other United manager has faced before :wenger:
 
spiriticon said:
Having injuries is definitely something no other United manager has faced before :wenger:
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Yep. Has happened to every manager since 2013, losing the best attackers and defenders at the same time, every year. No wonder they failed and so will ETH. Sack ETH
 
mav_9me said:
Yep. Has happened to every manager since 2013, losing the best attackers and defenders at the same time, every year. No wonder they failed and so will ETH. Sack ETH
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Well if it turns out he is just as 'shite' as the others when a few injuries hit, then well, we'll leave it to the gods. Having injured defenders is the trial of fire every United manager has to survive, it's a tale as old as time.

I don't know about the 2 missing attackers you're talking about. Martial and Rashford have not really been out at the same time this year. Bruno is ever present. Dunno who you mean.
 
spiriticon said:
Well if it turns out he is just as 'shite' as the others when a few injuries hit, then well, we'll leave it to the gods. Having injured defenders is the trial of fire every United manager has to survive, it's a tale as old as time.

I don't know about the 2 missing attackers you're talking about. Martial and Rashford have not really been out at the same time this year. Bruno is ever present. Dunno who you mean.
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Surely the guy deserves some time? fecks sake people in here.

He's won a trophy. He has us top 4. He's in the semis of the fa cup and quarters of the Europa league. He has the highest win percentage of any United manager ever. He's dealt with a shit ton of irregular issues. We are literally strikerless this season because of the ineptitude of previous years.

When injuries hit, if you don't have the squad to play the way you want to play, then no, that is out of his control. That takes time to get a squad who can properly cover for injuries. He has shown more than enough to show that he is absolutely the right guy and will be our guy long term, turning against him because a potential bad run because of an injury crisis is fecking idiotic, sorry but it's true.
 
HookedOnAPhelan said:
By the way I love how some people with complete confidence state that "he's made mistakes this season", as if they are the arbiters of managerial competence from their cozy armchairs with the benefit of hindsight.
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What a weird comment. I'm sure even ETH would agree he's made mistakes at times this season. No manager, not even SAF, gets it right 100% of the time, and there's nothing wrong with constructive criticism. This isn't a cult.
 
spiriticon said:
Well if it turns out he is just as 'shite' as the others when a few injuries hit, then well, we'll leave it to the gods. Having injured defenders is the trial of fire every United manager has to survive, it's a tale as old as time.

I don't know about the 2 missing attackers you're talking about. Martial and Rashford have not really been out at the same time this year. Bruno is ever present. Dunno who you mean.
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Our best 2 attackers have been Rashford and Garnacho this season.

Anyway it's not a few injuries, it's the best attackers and defenders now. When he doesn't have a decent squad especially upfront to begin with
 
HookedOnAPhelan said:
By the way I love how some people with complete confidence state that "he's made mistakes this season", as if they are the arbiters of managerial competence from their cozy armchairs with the benefit of hindsight.
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It isn’t the acknowledgement of mistakes that’s an issue - all human beings do. It’s the incessant knee jerk pile on and inability to see through anything but a bad result driven lense, that comes off badly.

ETH is going to use his squad throughout the long season. He has to - to get through it, to give players trust and confidence and to progres the team for the long term. You can’t expect a manager to align every decision with your own. I am in favour of critical thinking and analysis but not this simplistic process of drawing conclusions vaguely based on the last result. There’s too much that happens behind the scenes that we don’t see.

So far he’s done a smashing job in charge of our club. Although raising us from the shambles with us was a great accomplishment it feels like this squad is not yet built to handle the number of competitions we are in and unfortunately the amount of injuries that have wracked up now. We just have to get over the line in the league and then work to improve our football / personnel during the break.
 
HookedOnAPhelan said:
He's in his first season. Pep finished 4th and won feck all in his first season at City. Klopp finished 8th and won feck all (and 4th and won feck all in his first full season).

But hey, maybe you can teach him about English football and how he should rethink his away strategy and tactics.
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Just a little correction - Pep Guardiola finished 3rd in his first season with Manchester City 2016-2017.Antonio Contes Chelsea won the title and Pochettinos Spurs finished second.This is the ONLY season in his career so far when his team didnt win any trophy and finished below the first two spots.
 
Big Ben Foster said:
What a weird comment. I'm sure even ETH would agree he's made mistakes at times this season. No manager, not even SAF, gets it right 100% of the time, and there's nothing wrong with constructive criticism. This isn't a cult.
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Agreed. I think ETH has been brilliant this season but it doesn't make him immune from criticism. And the 'cosy armchair' point is such a facile one...basically means that nobody that isn't either a professional football manager or player can criticize.
 
bosnian_red said:
Surely the guy deserves some time? fecks sake people in here.

He's won a trophy. He has us top 4. He's in the semis of the fa cup and quarters of the Europa league. He has the highest win percentage of any United manager ever. He's dealt with a shit ton of irregular issues. We are literally strikerless this season because of the ineptitude of previous years.

When injuries hit, if you don't have the squad to play the way you want to play, then no, that is out of his control. That takes time to get a squad who can properly cover for injuries. He has shown more than enough to show that he is absolutely the right guy and will be our guy long term, turning against him because a potential bad run because of an injury crisis is fecking idiotic, sorry but it's true.
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Ten Hag will be here next season, regardless of our final league position.

But if we fall out of the top 4 and out of the rest of the cups by the end of the season, then he's not been 'brilliant' or 'genius' or anything, he's just OK. No better or worse than past United managers.

Just would be nice to see some balanced objectivity in this thread, rather than wild hype all the time.
 
mav_9me said:
If we don't get top 4 now, without our 2 best attackers and 2 best defenders, I say he is no better than any of the others since 2013, and we should sack him.
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Jesus you cannot be serious? And to think I was being told yesterday that there's no one calling for him to be sacked, it was all in my head apparently :rolleyes:
 
PepG said:
Just a little correction - Pep Guardiola finished 3rd in his first season with Manchester City 2016-2017.Antonio Contes Chelsea won the title and Pochettinos Spurs finished second.This is the ONLY season in his career so far when his team didnt win any trophy and finished below the first two spots.
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Was that even a possibility at Barcelona and Bayern?
 
spiriticon said:
Ten Hag will be here next season, regardless of our final league position.

But if we fall out of the top 4 and out of the rest of the cups by the end of the season, then he's not been 'brilliant' or 'genius' or anything, he's just OK. No better or worse than past United managers.

Just would be nice to see some balanced objectivity in this thread, rather than wild hype all the time.
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We wont fall out of the top 4 and will have broken a 6 year trophy drought as well, despite your desire to see that happen and want him to turn out OK (in the name of balance)
 
amolbhatia50k said:
We wont fall out of the top 4 and will have broken a 6 year trophy drought as well, despite your desire to see that happen and want him to turn out OK (in the name of balance)
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I am not so sure that we wouldn't fall out the top 4. Let's hope not.

Just for the sake of it, Jose Mourinho won more cups in Season 1, and Van Gaal got sacked 1 day after winning the FA Cup (a more prestigious trophy than the Carabao) because he did not make top 4.

Winning the Carabao Cup is just an ok achievement.
 
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