Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24

Status
Not open for further replies.
Mike Smalling said:
What absolute tripe. Do you honestly believe that he just came in and made everything worse single-handedly? Does none of the blame go to Ole's shit management, Fred and McTominay being complete crap, Shaw and Maguire fecking around in defense on a regular basis, Rashford being an absolute shadow of himself, Pogba only being available for half the games? All of that is down to Ronaldo? Is it even remotely possible that there may be other factors that contributed to us dropping down to sixth in the league?

We collapsed as a team last season for a variety of reasons, but at least Ronaldo put a few goals in, and gave us some moments. Blaming him for everything that went wrong last season is about as asinine as defending him this season.
Click to expand...

Last season was about Ronaldo and everyone else being bad. This season Ronaldo is slightly worse but everyone else is a lot better.

The fact Ronaldo scored a number of goals last season shouldn’t mask his overall negative effect on the team. Nor should it hide the fact that the team was usually crap last season, with and without him.
 
tenpoless said:
Cant wait until the pressing stops after several years and then he will be called Ten Jog.
Click to expand...
Won’t happen. He who doesn’t put in a shift will find themselves benched, then moved on.

Every team works hard now, modern football requires it.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Last season was about Ronaldo and everyone else being bad. This season Ronaldo is slightly worse but everyone else is a lot better.

The fact Ronaldo scored a number of goals last season shouldn’t mask his overall negative effect on the team. Nor should it hide the fact that the team was usually crap last season, with and without him.
Click to expand...
The narrative that Ronaldo makes the team worse when he plays is nonsense. His off the pitch antics do have a negative impact.

He’s given another chance, but three strikes he’s out.
 
DJ_21 said:
We’re looking a lot better at breaking down teams.
Click to expand...
Unlike under LvG we don't seem to be keeping possession just for the sake of it but rather with purpose, not saying that was LvG's fault as the squad quality is night and day.
 
mctrials23 said:
Then you have to ask "what was the big change from the previous season". I've been a firm critic of Ole since the honeymoon period ended about 3 months after he arrived. That doesn't change the fact that everything fell apart when Ronaldo came back. It wasn't amazing before that but it took a nosedive.

As to other players not performing, thats pretty simple. If the team aren't happy, there are divisions in the changing room and everyone is trying to compensate and also provide for Ronaldo all the time then everyone and every thing will suffer. Last night was a prime example of people desperately trying to set Ronaldo up even when there were better options. When they should have kept the ball and looked for a better opportunity.

Because we play badly as a team when he is on the pitch. Would we have needed those late winners or equalisers if we had a team that was performing well as a unit? It doesn't matter if a player scores 40 goals a season if you would have scored 60 without him. Hes a net detriment. This is the fundamental issue. The Ronaldo supporters believe that without him we would have been bottom half of the table because he salvaged games for us and the rest of us believe that without him we would have been a better team and scored far more goals spread around the team.

Rooney still did some good things at United in his final few years but overall he was a drag factor on the team. Ronaldo is the same. Its just very hard to quantify someones negative impact on a team. The main evidence we have is how United play with and without Ronaldo and we play far better without him.
Click to expand...

I won't make a long reply, because I will just end up repeating myself. It's still my opinion that: a) Yes, Ronaldo probably contributed negatively to our overall play. b) We were crap for many reasons last season. You cannot simply attribute our drop in performance to Ronaldo alone. c) He scored a bunch of goals that helped us out massively. In a fictitious scenario without him in the squad, I don't believe we would have been significantly better off (assuming no replacement).

Also, I will make it clear that these are opinions about last season. This season he has been a disaster on and off the pitch.

Pogue Mahone said:
Last season was about Ronaldo and everyone else being bad. This season Ronaldo is slightly worse but everyone else is a lot better.

The fact Ronaldo scored a number of goals last season shouldn’t mask his overall negative effect on the team. Nor should it hide the fact that the team was usually crap last season, with and without him.
Click to expand...

Yes, I would overall agree with this assessment, but I would say that Ronaldo is much worse this season compared to last. He looks much slower and more sluggish to me.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Last season was about Ronaldo and everyone else being bad. This season Ronaldo is slightly worse but everyone else is a lot better.

The fact Ronaldo scored a number of goals last season shouldn’t mask his overall negative effect on the team. Nor should it hide the fact that the team was usually crap last season, with and without him.
Click to expand...
I somewhat agree, but I do believe after February Ronaldo genuinely was playing well.
 
I love him. So happy we got him over Conte and Poch.

I'd seriously rate him 9/10 so far given the budgetary restrictions and the state of the club when he came. He's come in, transformed our play in a short time, made us enjoyable to watch, instilled a work ethic and discipline in a squad that had been repeatedly mutineering and downed tools over the past seasons, adapted quickly to circumstances and done very well while not having a preferred player available in the most essential position on the pitch in an attacking sense. Recruitment has been spot on so far, bringing leaders and characters as well as footballing skill into the side. What more can you ask for in four months?
 
AltiUn said:
Unlike under LvG we don't seem to be keeping possession just for the sake of it but rather with purpose, not saying that was LvG's fault as the squad quality is night and day.
Click to expand...
I think his possession based style is slightly different to Ten hags though.
 
mav_9me said:
Click to expand...


What's so good about that play is how active the players are without the ball. Garnarcho sprints out wide to stretch the pitch when Shaw and Lindelof are the middle. He doesn't get the ball, but it doesn't matter.

The other time, when Shaw goes wide he's pulling in. The amount of space we create doing something so simple makes a huge difference
 
DJ_21 said:
I think his possession based style is slightly different to Ten hags though.
Click to expand...
He has more modern pressing, but there are definite similarities to their philosophy though, especially on possession. Much closer to LvG than any other manager, Shame we wasted so many years and money instead of continuing the foundations he left for us. We genuinely started to look like a 'tactical' team under him.
 
Skills said:
What's so good about that play is how active the players are without the ball. Garnarcho sprints out wide to stretch the pitch when Shaw and Lindelof are the middle. He doesn't get the ball, but it doesn't matter.

The other time, when Shaw goes wide he's pulling in. The amount of space we create doing something so simple makes a huge difference
Click to expand...

It's been more than 10 yrs since we've seen proper movement.

In case people have forgotten, our style used to be give the ball to the wide player and watch and wait to see what he does.
 
I wanted him above any other manager and I'm so happy he's the boss now. He does all the right things, he says the right things, he acts right, just everything goes into a very promising and good direction.
 
ETH is doing a brilliant job in all aspects, from coaching to man management. His handling of the Ronaldo situation this week has been impeccable and our performances since City have been superb.

On the topic of Ronaldo, I see the same posters from other threads who want to blame an individual for everything. Utter nonsense, the only individual that is capable of having such impact is the manager...as we are seeing.

That being said they are probably the same fans who hated Ronaldo when he first played for us and that would’ve hated Antonys skill last night. Weirdos.
 
mu4c_20le said:
He has more modern pressing, but there are definite similarities to their philosophy though, especially on possession. Much closer to LvG than any other manager, Shame we wasted so many years and money instead of continuing the foundations he left for us. We genuinely started to look like a 'tactical' team under him.
Click to expand...
Ye we’ve wasted so many years by going for complete opposite style managers. At least we’re getting somewhere now though. If we stick with Ten Hag I think he’ll have us competing and winning things very soon.
 
https://www.skysports.com/football/...s-he-is-really-impatient-amid-developing-team

good read there with ETH talking about how impatient he can be with building a team and getting them to play how he envisions....he's doing it the right way though by building from back to front and giving the team some structure and identity. the final third is the most difficult piece to develop simply bc that is about creativity and the vision the players see in real time on the pitch. Pattern play is one thing in the final third but it's that soccer brain/iq that delivers the goods
 
Imagine if we had gotten Poch in....

Could've had Harry Winks and Wanyama in the middle instead :lol:
 
As we've played Pool, Gunners, Spurs, City, Chelsea, and a resurgent Toon, only got beat once, ETH has shown that he can adapt his playing styles, also these guys now are stats wise running more passing better, just more goals is missing atm. So far imo all have bought into his way this should only boad well going forward. I'm pretty happy I'm not shouting at the TV so much . Hoping to be shouting at OT in the new year.
 
I like how quickly he has also adapted.

He faced stronger teams and went counter attacking now we are dominating the ball.

He realised having 1 up top against low blocks doesnt work so is trying Rashford and Ronaldo and Bruno like an inside wide playmaker who can cross and pick cute passes with Dalot being the wide man.
 
Interesting that he sees Rashford and Ronaldo as a potential partnership. One of Ronaldo's alleged complaints last season was that he was too often isolated and that he wanted to play with another striker nearer to him.

To be honest, I struggle to think of a single thing that I've disliked abut EtH so far as everything he's done has been reassuring that we're on the right track. You've got:
  • Abandoning the approach of the first two games for a slightly more pragmatic counter attack against Liverpool, Arsenal, showing tactical flexibility.
  • Dropping Maguire, Shaw, Sancho, Ronaldo for under-performing instead of just putting up with them. Also giving them opportunities to get back in the team and make amends. Other than Martinez- who is fecking brilliant- and Varane, i don't really see a clear favourite of his in this team. Everyone is playing for their place.
  • Clear as day improvement in passing and moving. From the zombie football of the last decade (and even Sir Alex's last years to be painfully honest) to a team that actually looks really fluid and dynamic and would score a lot of goals with a better attack/striker
  • The Ronaldo issue was masterfully handled. Jose would have banished him to the reserves for ever, Ole probably would have indulged him. EtH gave him a clear route back while giving him a warning.
  • Diogo Dalot is looking like a player at last

Any bad points that i'm missing? The City result I put down to them being outstanding.
 
For now I'm very optimistic. He is doing all the right things at the club. And looks like players buying into his system.
 
Borys said:
That number looks bad only if you're not getting anywhere in terms of progress/trophies.


I got the same impression after the last 3 games. It is a sign of not only team adapting to ETH game, but also players getting some confidence. Even Fred and McTominay seem capable of doing it now and the play just looks much smoother.
Click to expand...

So it looks bad under Ole then.
 
He is exceptional in his grasp of tactics. But what we are seeing right now is the result of discipline and hard work. Inmates were running the asylum. Now everyone fall under one vision. What a difference.
 
Irwin99 said:
Interesting that he sees Rashford and Ronaldo as a potential partnership. One of Ronaldo's alleged complaints last season was that he was too often isolated and that he wanted to play with another striker nearer to him.

To be honest, I struggle to think of a single thing that I've disliked abut EtH so far as everything he's done has been reassuring that we're on the right track. You've got:
  • Abandoning the approach of the first two games for a slightly more pragmatic counter attack against Liverpool, Arsenal, showing tactical flexibility.
  • Dropping Maguire, Shaw, Sancho, Ronaldo for under-performing instead of just putting up with them. Also giving them opportunities to get back in the team and make amends. Other than Martinez- who is fecking brilliant- and Varane, i don't really see a clear favourite of his in this team. Everyone is playing for their place.
  • Clear as day improvement in passing and moving. From the zombie football of the last decade (and even Sir Alex's last years to be painfully honest) to a team that actually looks really fluid and dynamic and would score a lot of goals with a better attack/striker
  • The Ronaldo issue was masterfully handled. Jose would have banished him to the reserves for ever, Ole probably would have indulged him. EtH gave him a clear route back while giving him a warning.
  • Diogo Dalot is looking like a player at last

Any bad points that i'm missing? The City result I put down to them being outstanding.
Click to expand...
We are not perfect yet. But trust me, we are gradually getting there.

955f3e129c40d37fe89eaf919c85b209.png
 
There is just one thing that annoys me. We keep sending those crosses in the box without much effect. It is not that as if those create good chances. Most of the time they are cleared by defenders or just simply miss united player.

I know we scored second goal yesterday with this tactic but succeeding once after trying 200 times doesn't make the tactic right.

Hope the team improves in this aspect.
 
Tony247 said:
There is just one thing that annoys me. We keep sending those crosses in the box without much effect. It is not that as if those create good chances. Most of the time they are cleared by defenders or just simply miss united player.

I know we scored second goal yesterday with this tactic but succeeding once after trying 200 times doesn't make the tactic right.

Hope the team improves in this aspect.
Click to expand...

To be fair that's on the players. Antony was a superb crosser at Ajax but I don't think I have seen e single good cross of him till now. Crossing and finishing seems to be off but there is only so much you can train that aspect.
 
Tony247 said:
There is just one thing that annoys me. We keep sending those crosses in the box without much effect. It is not that as if those create good chances. Most of the time they are cleared by defenders or just simply miss united player.

I know we scored second goal yesterday with this tactic but succeeding once after trying 200 times doesn't make the tactic right.

Hope the team improves in this aspect.
Click to expand...

We need to get into better positions before crosses before hitting them. That's the issue for me. Often we'll either swing one in to a static packed box (low probability of success there) or hit them from the deep by line. ETH wants us to be crossing from more dangerous positions which is why the players need to find those extra runners from midfield into the box who then can cross it from a closer distance (City has mastered this). The other alternative is getting better hitting early crosses when a team's backline is closer to the top of the box and Ronaldo/Rashford/whoever else has space to run onto it.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.