Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24

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I'm probably different to most on here in that I don't have absolute loyalty to any manager - except Fergie - and I don't give them absolute leeway for their team's performances as I don't think you can separate one from the other. I would also have totally gambled on Potter over him because I enjoyed watching Brighton much more than I did ETH's Ajax at any point.

But...

I am willing to give him time, while accepting that he will make mistakes along the line, but that he will hopefully learn from them. One of the things I have seen so far is how he is uncompromising in his approach toward the game. Today he could easily have shut up shop and lost narrowly, which many would have expected, but he stuck to his principles and well...here we are.

I will say though that I think we have become more confident and braver on the ball. Those who say we are no different from Ole footballing wise are either lying or clueless. Even before we conceded the flurry of goals in the first half, you could see us playing through their press and trying to isolate their fullbacks against our wide forwards albeit unsuccessfully due to a number of personnel errors.

I was also impressed by how we kept passing and showing some fight in the second half. That bodes well for games to comes if we keep the mindset that today was just a setback and we are better than most teams that we will come up against, which will result in points in the long run.
 
Nou_Camp99 said:
Very naive to think we are good enough yet to not park the bus at City. This is what happens when you don't close them down in your own half. They destroy you.
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I'd agree with this. Naive for me to think that we can compete with them at this stage, give it two years and maybe. Hopefully he shakes this off and we move on.
 
Andersonson said:
You all wanted him. He was labeled a genius by 90% in here. Even though he has only won with Ajax in a one team league. He has done a terrible job so far. He will get sacked before the seasons ends.

We should get Mancini in after the WC
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Why would we have to wait until after the WC? You do know Italy aren't in the WC, right? They didn't qualify.
 
Cassidy said:
It is still early though, and hes missing a CF
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It's still early indeed but it's fine to post legitimate question marks over a lot of his decisions, football and tactical setup without people telling us to shut up because by this we want him gone or not giving him a chance. Him getting a chance or not has nothing to do with internet fans posting their opinions on the manager on an internet forum.
 
Andersonson said:
You all wanted him. He was labeled a genius by 90% in here. Even though he has only won with Ajax in a one team league. He has done a terrible job so far. He will get sacked before the seasons ends.

We should get Mancini in after the WC
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:lol:
 
Mickeza said:
It had feck all to do with tactics. The team didn’t believe they could win. If you don’t believe then you don’t fight. If you don’t fight and play with intensity against a team as good as that then you get hammered.
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This. United didnt show up mentally for this match. They showed some desire in the second half but it was too late. And for those calling him naive that he set up the team too open..it was actually not enough attacking. United barely created anything in the first half..the midfield and the attackers let down the whole game plan.
 
He was absolutely correct to setup the way he did. Because we're trying to evolve as a football team and not carry on with the reactive approach we've seen in prior years where we've made no attempt from the get-go to play through the midfield. And hence have ceded control to the opposition and got some favourable results, which imo built up a false sense of security among many fans when it was clear for me to see that our approach to the game wasn't sustainable.

But over the long-term, the tactics of Mourinho and Ole have only contributed to us regressing as a football team, and there's going to be teething problems under EtH when he's clearly attempting to transition from a reactive approach to a more proactive one. We can't carry on playing McFred together if we have any ambitions of evolving as a team. And when you attempt to evolve as a football team, then there's going to be teething problems along the way where certain deficiencies will clearly be exposed. And it should make it easier to identify which players are capable of contributing in a more dominating approach and which ones are not. So for me, the result today was very disappointing but it's part of the learning curve towards becoming a more dominant team.

It's going to take time but I'm more confident now after the 6-3 loss than I ever was under Ole and Mourinho when they won at City. And the reason for that is simply down to how we were approaching games. And if you're Man Utd and approach games by ceding control from the get-go, then we aren't going to challenge any time soon until we change our mindset. And with ten Hag we will look to evolve into a proactive attacking team, but it's going to take time and patience. City spent over £200m on players in Guardiola first season at the club and another £285m in Guardiola's second season at the club. This is what we're up against and it's going to take time and patience to become competitive with a club like City who are bank rolled by a nation state.
 
Mickeza said:
It had feck all to do with tactics. The team didn’t believe they could win. If you don’t believe then you don’t fight. If you don’t fight and play with intensity against a team as good as that then you get hammered.
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How can you say that? Tactics might not have been the most decisive factor but to say they weren't at all is crazy. City is the best team in the world when having the ball. They didn't even play a DM in Rodri today. When if not then do you have an opportunity to play counter football. What we did was a halfarsed pressing approach, against some of the best technical players in the world. Who would have thought, that this could backfire? Selection wise, we might have get away with but selection and approach wasn't good at all. Way better teams in terms of pressing have been killed off by City. And we are trying it without being good at all. That isn't a smart decision. Most of our good results this season came from playing a bit more counter oriented, should have doubled down on that, probably would have lost just as well but not after 45min.
 
Andersonson said:
You all wanted him. He was labeled a genius by 90% in here. Even though he has only won with Ajax in a one team league. He has done a terrible job so far. He will get sacked before the seasons ends.

We should get Mancini in after the WC
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Bloody hell, there's no white text, this is a genuine post. Unreal. The Mancini line is the icing on the cake :lol:
 
Fred and Mctominay gave these people a fight.

We just needed a double pivot midfield.
 
So if he had picked Casemiro and Mctominay, he would have been called out for his cowardly approach.

Truth is ETH is at fault but players even more. Like Neville said, they just bottled it. Sancho was atrocious and so was Rashford.
 
el3mel said:
It's still early indeed but it's fine to post legitimate question marks over a lot of his decisions, football and tactical setup without people telling us to shut up because by this we want him gone or not giving him a chance. Him getting a chance or not has nothing to do with internet fans posting their opinions on the manager on an internet forum.
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Mate you've been posting illegitimate question marks about ETH basically since he was hired FFS. Constant whining even if the team plays well, grinding that axe in this thread for months. Your posts make it seem like your dad was passed over for the manager job.
 
PepG said:
This. United didnt show up mentally for this match. They showed some desire in the second half but it was too late. And for those calling him naive that he set up the team too open..it was actually not enough attacking. United barely created anything in the first half..the midfield and the attackers let down the whole game plan.
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Yup. Which oddly enough is exactly what ETH has said. The space was there and we showed zero confidence or bravery on the ball. Their first goal comes from an attack we really should be having a shot at goal from but Sancho just gives it away. You could tell after 5 minutes we were going to get hammered - it was patently obvious we hadn’t turned up, were late to every tackle and had bricked it. Just like it was patently obvious all those times last year we got smashed that the players weren’t at it.
 
We've had to play Liverpool, Arsenal and City, three of the toughest games of the season, in our first seven matches. We won two of them. Today was bad, no denying that, but anyone who entertains notions of sacking the manager is just out of their minds.
 
We were far too open with Sancho and Antony plus immobile midfielders in McTominay and Erikson. Naive from ETH, Casemiro should have started, and not using Ronaldo when Rashford was so bad was baffling. Very poor from manager and players alike today.
 
Blood Mage said:
Tactically destroyed by Pep today unfortunately. Hopefully he can put this behind him and start building momentum again.
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I think he's trying to build something for the future, the logical/safe way to set up the team today was to sit back and hit on the counter. But if we're aiming to compete with this kind of teams we must fight them one on one, trying to impose our style.

Of course we're not at that level yet and by doing that we're risking to get several spankings.

City has a world class squad, with a world-class manager that has a really stablished playing style. We are at least 2-3 seasons behind them if we get our signings right.

But one thing I'm sure of it that Ten Hag is the right manager.
 
Blood Mage said:
Tactically destroyed by Pep today unfortunately. Hopefully he can put this behind him and start building momentum again.
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Has nothing to do with tactics.

One has a plethora of world class players and has been their coach for 5+ years, the other has 8 games in hand with a team full of players we still don't know if they have it in them.


He could have parked the bus and got away with a 2-0 defeat.
He didn't.
Some of them out there let the manager down. It will eventualy be their downfall, not his.
 
Iowa Red said:
And I said that where?

I don't want OGS back but trying to belittle him for coming second in a COVID year is simply agenda posting.
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You said we are going nowhere under ETH and then claimed Ole is somehow superior by finishing top four twice despite with winning feck all in his time here. To add to that ETH hasn't even completed a season with us yet. So feck off accusing me of agenda posting.
 
Adnan said:
He was absolutely correct to setup the way he did. Because we're trying to evolve as a football team and not carry on with the reactive approach we've seen in prior years where we've made no attempt from the get-go to play through the midfield. And hence have ceded control to the opposition and got some favourable results, which imo built up a false sense of security among many fans when it was clear for me to see that our approach to the game wasn't sustainable.

But over the long-term, the tactics of Mourinho and Ole have only contributed to us regressing as a football team, and there's going to be teething problems under EtH when he's clearly attempting to transition from a reactive approach to a more proactive one. We can't carry on playing McFred together if we have any ambitions of evolving as a team. And when you attempt to evolve as a football team, then there's going to be teething problems along the way where certain deficiencies will clearly be exposed. And it should make it easier to identify which players are capable of contributing in a more dominating approach and which ones are not. So for me, the result today was very disappointing but it's part of the learning curve towards becoming a more dominant team.

It's going to take time but I'm more confident now after the 6-3 loss than I ever was under Ole and Mourinho when they won at City. And the reason for that is simply down to how we were approaching games. And if you're Man Utd and approach games by ceding control from the get-go, then we aren't going to challenge any time soon until we change our mindset. And with ten Hag we will look to evolve into a proactive attacking team, but it's going to take time and patience. City spent over £200m on players in Guardiola first season at the club and another £285m in Guardiola's second season at the club. This is what we're up against and it's going to take time and patience to become competitive with a club like City who are bank rolled by a nation state.
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He was correct in setting up to attack, but his approach to it was wrong. Playing a mid block and man marking simply left us exposed. It wasn't a good tactical approach from him. Either you attack or defend in a compact manner. What we did was sit in the middle, and you can't do that against City. This reminds me a bit of Mourinho's first season at Madrid with the 5-0 at the Nou Camp. It felt like as a manager, despite working with Pep in the past, this was the first true time they've matched up professionally, and he wasn't prepared for it, so neither was the team.
 
Adnan said:
He was absolutely correct to setup the way he did. Because we're trying to evolve as a football team and not carry on with the reactive approach we've seen in prior years where we've made no attempt from the get-go to play through the midfield. And hence have ceded control to the opposition and got some favourable results, which imo built up a false sense of security among many fans when it was clear for me to see that our approach to the game wasn't sustainable.

But over the long-term, the tactics of Mourinho and Ole have only contributed to us regressing as a football team, and there's going to be teething problems under EtH when he's clearly attempting to transition from a reactive approach to a more proactive one. We can't carry on playing McFred together if we have any ambitions of evolving as a team. And when you attempt to evolve as a football team, then there's going to be teething problems along the way where certain deficiencies will clearly be exposed. And it should make it easier to identify which players are capable of contributing in a more dominating approach and which ones are not. So for me, the result today was very disappointing but it's part of the learning curve towards becoming a more dominant team.

It's going to take time but I'm more confident now after the 6-3 loss than I ever was under Ole and Mourinho when they won at City. And the reason for that is simply down to how we were approaching games. And if you're Man Utd and approach games by ceding control from the get-go, then we aren't going to challenge any time soon until we change our mindset. And with ten Hag we will look to evolve into a proactive attacking team, but it's going to take time and patience. City spent over £200m on players in Guardiola first season at the club and another £285m in Guardiola's second season at the club. This is what we're up against and it's going to take time and patience to become competitive with a club like City who are bank rolled by a nation state.
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I agree with the sentiment but I'd argue, that setting up like this plus getting this result won't really help us in the longterm. Or do you think, the players will just wrap up today as "at least we tried to play proactive"?
There is a time and a place, even Fergie made use of a defensive approach when it made sense and that should have been the approach today as well. And that doesn't mean he should have tried to park the bus. But having Bruno and Eriksen on the pitch was something he could have adjusted. Same for Sancho and Rashford. In a game against City (in their stadium), he could also have setup a bit more reserved than usual and try to bring on more attacking talent once a hold of the game was established. But that never happend today at all, we were in free fall for 45min. 2nd half was a bit better but certainly there is a case for that being more connected to our opponent taking the foot off the gas than by us improving.
 
Blood Mage said:
Tactically destroyed by Pep today unfortunately. Hopefully he can put this behind him and start building momentum again.
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What did Pep do differently in terms of tactics today compared to how they've played in the rest of their matches this season?
 
Leftback99 said:
One of the concerns some of us had was he had 'no PL experience' which many shot down as being irrelevant (it definitely is). He'll soon learn.

We're going to see a lot more rotation now with games coming every 3 days so we'll see how he handles it.

Everton away next week after a long trip on Thursday is a worry.
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I noticed one of the backroom 'think-tank' in the crowd with plenty of PL experience (Sir Alex Ferguson) but they never show Bryan Robson - does he watch from pitch-level? I assume he attends if he is being paid to offer his advice.

They are offering advice, yes?
 
Adnan said:
He was absolutely correct to setup the way he did. Because we're trying to evolve as a football team and not carry on with the reactive approach we've seen in prior years where we've made no attempt from the get-go to play through the midfield. And hence have ceded control to the opposition and got some favourable results, which imo built up a false sense of security among many fans when it was clear for me to see that our approach to the game wasn't sustainable.

But over the long-term, the tactics of Mourinho and Ole have only contributed to us regressing as a football team, and there's going to be teething problems under EtH when he's clearly attempting to transition from a reactive approach to a more proactive one. We can't carry on playing McFred together if we have any ambitions of evolving as a team. And when you attempt to evolve as a football team, then there's going to be teething problems along the way where certain deficiencies will clearly be exposed. And it should make it easier to identify which players are capable of contributing in a more dominating approach and which ones are not. So for me, the result today was very disappointing but it's part of the learning curve towards becoming a more dominant team.

It's going to take time but I'm more confident now after the 6-3 loss than I ever was under Ole and Mourinho when they won at City. And the reason for that is simply down to how we were approaching games. And if you're Man Utd and approach games by ceding control from the get-go, then we aren't going to challenge any time soon until we change our mindset. And with ten Hag we will look to evolve into a proactive attacking team, but it's going to take time and patience. City spent over £200m on players in Guardiola first season at the club and another £285m in Guardiola's second season at the club. This is what we're up against and it's going to take time and patience to become competitive with a club like City who are bank rolled by a nation state.
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Absolutely spot on. The knee jerkers need to realise that the mentality shift from passive defensive managers like Ole and Jose to a progressive manager like ETH will take time. We will have a few more of these results over the next year or two but the progress will be there for all to see.
 
The United said:
Every game will be a learning curve for him here for at least the first season. I am not going to say too much about this game.

The only thing I think he should have done was start Martial and shape the team a bit better instead of having two minds about whether to press from the front or/and sit deep, resulting in exposing us badly in the middle.
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His biggest lesson will come when he realises even in victory or form you can't bet on many of our players. Some guys have such massive role deficiencies at their position they revert to complete zeroes with the slightest weather change. For example our midfield personnel will never have the mobility or positional awareness to shield anything more than a deep defensive line. I'll be nice and spare some of our attackers similar unflattering descriptions.
 
RedOrange said:
Mate you've been posting illegitimate question marks about ETH basically since he was hired FFS. Constant whining even if the team plays well, grinding that axe in this thread for months. Your posts make it seem like your dad was passed over for the manager job.
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Yeah no. I praised him after both Liverpool and Arsenal, because, guess what, these are the only two games we played well this season. Southampton and Leicester were just the same usual shit.
 
Adnan said:
He was absolutely correct to setup the way he did. Because we're trying to evolve as a football team and not carry on with the reactive approach we've seen in prior years where we've made no attempt from the get-go to play through the midfield. And hence have ceded control to the opposition and got some favourable results, which imo built up a false sense of security among many fans when it was clear for me to see that our approach to the game wasn't sustainable.

But over the long-term, the tactics of Mourinho and Ole have only contributed to us regressing as a football team, and there's going to be teething problems under EtH when he's clearly attempting to transition from a reactive approach to a more proactive one. We can't carry on playing McFred together if we have any ambitions of evolving as a team. And when you attempt to evolve as a football team, then there's going to be teething problems along the way where certain deficiencies will clearly be exposed. And it should make it easier to identify which players are capable of contributing in a more dominating approach and which ones are not. So for me, the result today was very disappointing but it's part of the learning curve towards becoming a more dominant team.

It's going to take time but I'm more confident now after the 6-3 loss than I ever was under Ole and Mourinho when they won at City. And the reason for that is simply down to how we were approaching games. And if you're Man Utd and approach games by ceding control from the get-go, then we aren't going to challenge any time soon until we change our mindset. And with ten Hag we will look to evolve into a proactive attacking team, but it's going to take time and patience. City spent over £200m on players in Guardiola first season at the club and another £285m in Guardiola's second season at the club. This is what we're up against and it's going to take time and patience to become competitive with a club like City who are bank rolled by a nation state.
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Good post. People underestimate the extent to which Mourinho and Ole set us back.

Pep walked into a City team with loads of top class players largely tailored to his needs, and he still needed a full year and many hundreds of millions of pounds before he got them fully firing. There was never a quick fix here, this was always going to take time, and there will be plenty of setbacks along the way. Sometimes painful ones, like this one.
 
Confident he will turn it around but he's got a hell of a job on his hands.

We've been hammered by 4 goals or more EIGHT times in two seasons and there's a severe mental fragility there that needs fixing. I don't care how good City are you can't leave gaps like that or have attackers that give the ball away for fun.
 
Adnan said:
He was absolutely correct to setup the way he did. Because we're trying to evolve as a football team and not carry on with the reactive approach we've seen in prior years where we've made no attempt from the get-go to play through the midfield. And hence have ceded control to the opposition and got some favourable results, which imo built up a false sense of security among many fans when it was clear for me to see that our approach to the game wasn't sustainable.

But over the long-term, the tactics of Mourinho and Ole have only contributed to us regressing as a football team, and there's going to be teething problems under EtH when he's clearly attempting to transition from a reactive approach to a more proactive one. We can't carry on playing McFred together if we have any ambitions of evolving as a team. And when you attempt to evolve as a football team, then there's going to be teething problems along the way where certain deficiencies will clearly be exposed. And it should make it easier to identify which players are capable of contributing in a more dominating approach and which ones are not. So for me, the result today was very disappointing but it's part of the learning curve towards becoming a more dominant team.

It's going to take time but I'm more confident now after the 6-3 loss than I ever was under Ole and Mourinho when they won at City. And the reason for that is simply down to how we were approaching games. And if you're Man Utd and approach games by ceding control from the get-go, then we aren't going to challenge any time soon until we change our mindset. And with ten Hag we will look to evolve into a proactive attacking team, but it's going to take time and patience. City spent over £200m on players in Guardiola first season at the club and another £285m in Guardiola's second season at the club. This is what we're up against and it's going to take time and patience to become competitive with a club like City who are bank rolled by a nation state.
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Good post as always mate
 
PepG said:
This. United didnt show up mentally for this match. They showed some desire in the second half but it was too late. And for those calling him naive that he set up the team too open..it was actually not enough attacking. United barely created anything in the first half..the midfield and the attackers let down the whole game plan.
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I agree we didn’t show up mentally, but to play a two man midfield of eriksen, who at the highest level is more of a 10, and mctominay and how open they played was naive. City got through our midfield way to easily.
Bruno should have dropped in or we should have played with a midfield 3.
Also if Casemiro was there instead of Eriksen they likely wouldn’t have scored the first one.
On the ball we were very sloppy, particularly our forwards, that’s why we weren’t creative enough.
All hypothetical I know but I do think it was tactically naive.
 
NZT-One said:
I agree with the sentiment but I'd argue, that setting up like this plus getting this result won't really help us in the longterm. Or do you think, the players will just wrap up today as "at least we tried to play proactive"?
There is a time and a place, even Fergie made use of a defensive approach when it made sense and that should have been the approach today as well. And that doesn't mean he should have tried to park the bus. But having Bruno and Eriksen on the pitch was something he could have adjusted. Same for Sancho and Rashford. In a game against City (in their stadium), he could also have setup a bit more reserved than usual and try to bring on more attacking talent once a hold of the game was established. But that never happend today at all, we were in free fall for 45min. 2nd half was a bit better but certainly there is a case for that being more connected to our opponent taking the foot off the gas than by us improving.
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Exactly, SAF adopted the line up numerous times for big games.Ten Hag went with what he thought best but we should have played Casemiro for Bruno to win the midfield battle.

People saying ‘oh it’s ok we didn’t stand a chance because it’s City’ is nonsense. Other teams have gone to City and played better. We should have been more competitive. You can’t just have a defeatist attitude. Let’s hope we learn from it.
 
At 2-0, was there not something to be done with a sub ? Of course it wouldn't guarantee anything but it pained me to see the lack of reaction until half time
 
We shouldnt get carried away with a few fluke results like against Arsenal and Liverpool. It's a plus we could snatch all points there despite playing bad but also a worry because I don't really see an improvement in our play at all, yet. It's all dull and slow like in other regimes before. We are still waiting for ETH revolution.

He had what 3 month? we should be seeing some patterns of the modern play by now yet we are the worst pressing team in the league, playing counter attacking football. Perhaps bold Eric should finally realize that you can't really play football with a player like McTominay in midfield and lose every midfield battle.
 
Cassidy said:
The same Eriksen who covers more ground than any United player?
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Not having a go at Eriksen btw.
He'd have been in my starting 11 as well. I'd have started Casemiro though over one of the forwards.

We were way too open
 
Poborsky's hair said:
We shouldnt get carried away with a few fluke results like against Arsenal and Liverpool. It's a plus we could snatch all points there despite playing bad but also a worry because I don't really see an improvement in our play at all, yet. It's all dull and slow like in other regimes before. We are still waiting for ETH revolution.

He had what 3 month? we should be seeing some patterns of the modern play by now yet we are the worst pressing team in the league, playing counter attacking football. Perhaps bold Eric should finally realize that you can't really play football with a player like McTominay in midfield and lose every midfield battle.
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This is so untrue. Nearly every single goal this season has been amazing team play, stretching back to preseason. We're several weeks into the season and today's opener was our first instance of individual brilliance
 
TheGame said:
Exactly, SAF adopted the line up numerous times for big games.Ten Hag went with what he thought best but we should have played Casemiro for Bruno to win the midfield battle.

People saying ‘oh it’s ok we didn’t stand a chance because it’s City’ is nonsense. Other teams have gone to City and played better. We should have been more competitive. You can’t just have a defeatist attitude. Let’s hope we learn from it.
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Yeah, I'd try to be more diplomatic but basically, just taking away responsibility to make smart decisions because the opponents name is City means throwing away an opportunity to learn. Certainly, all this isn't the be all and end all for ETH. By far no it isn't. But I think, we can't just step away from that saying "Its City, they are just better than we are". That won't do us any good in the long run. If you play superior opponents or opponents superior in one or the other aspect of the game, you have to adjust. If it weren't like that, you could only hire a coach during the summer to find a good game plan and then stick with it for the season.
 
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