That's true.
But seriously, yeah two weeks is nice but I'm even more impatient about the World Cup break, I assume that the younger players and the ones that won't be at the WC will be able to train and improve.
Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24
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That's true.
But seriously, yeah two weeks is nice but I'm even more impatient about the World Cup break, I assume that the younger players and the ones that won't be at the WC will be able to train and improve.
Players will be away on internationals so it's next to no use at all.
After next weekend yes, but they have all this weekend + days before Euro League games to train.
I think maintaining as much possession is definitely a pillar of the Cruijff/Guardiola way of football. There are a lot of quotes from Cruijff and Guardiola about possession being a means to the end of scoring more goals and not simple just holding on to the ball for the sake of it, but it's important in defence as well, because the opponent usually can't score unless they touch the ball at least a few times.
The positional play aspect is more about spreading your players across as much of the pitch as possible to force defenders to spread out and create larger gaps between them to attack through. This is pretty foundational and there's a story Thierry Henry told about how if he did not stay on his side and hug the touchline Guardiola would take him off.
If you don't have your two wide forwards hugging the touchline, the opponent's back line isn't forced to cover the entire width of the pitch and you don't get the wide spaces to play through. Once you've got those players out wide and the Centre forward in the centre of the pitch between the two centre backs you will have a gap between at least one of the opponent's centre backs and their fullbacks. These gaps can't be exploited unless the midfielders stay in the half spaces, because otherwise there's no one to run through them. If the ball is on the left side and the opponent's back line moves over to compact themselves horizontally on the left side of the pitch and close those gaps vertically, you can move the ball back to the midfield or back line and then kick long to the open wide forward on the other side, which will stretch and bend the defence further. This is where the high technical skill comes in, because the faster your players can move the ball around, the harder it is for the defenders to stay in good positions to defend you.
All of this is moot if you don't actually have the ball, though. Once you lose it and the opponent gets solid possession being spread out over the entire pitch is now a weakness and they can now exploit your lack of compactness and make direct attacking movements. This is why keeping possession is integral to implementing this positional play style successfully. Putting intense pressure on the ball right when you lose it is extremely important, because even if you're not successful in getting the ball back it makes it difficult for your opponent to pick out a direct pass to exploit the gaps in your formation.
they don't go away now, plenty of time before they go away for internationals
They'll have an extra 2 days (tomorrow and Monday) before Thursday. Hardly going to make much difference. I can't see why the game against Leeds will be cancelled now.
We'll have 2 games this week.
Yeah I think that's a good point. This stoppage is actually good for us. Gives him time as you say and also who knows maybe Martial will be ready to play at some point before it's over. This team looks a lot better with him in there.
Which is all good for some players but it will take about 2 years to drill it into the fringe players… eg; Maguire.
Will the games next weekend not be called of then? I mean the championship teams and all the English lower sides are on Tuesday and looking like they’ll go ahead so can’t imagine why next weekends games won’t.
They could well be off (I’m thinking most will go ahead next week with the odd exception, which unfortunately I reckon will include our game against Leeds, for what it’s worth)
Needless dig at Maguire. agreed though
i thought next weeks games were off as well?
ETH is a good manager, and likely the right manager for us right now. He’s been heavily supported this window (transfers), but I don’t think he will repeat Mourinho and Ole (top 2) this season. Top 4 should be our ambition.
At the same time I think ETH is the right man to bring us back in the title race within 2025 (maybe already next season). I hope we are patient with him, but if he fails to bring us to top 4 this season, it’s definitely over for him as United-manager.
At the same time I think ETH is the right man to bring us back in the title race within 2025 (maybe already next season). I hope we are patient with him, but if he fails to bring us to top 4 this season, it’s definitely over for him as United-manager.
One year is not enough in my opinion.
support him, let him get the players in he needs to play his system
top 4 should be the goal but given our league and city / Liverpool are current top 4 guaranteed I think we need to give him 2 years - especially given our squad and he is playing with no striker and a keeper who can’t play sweeper keeper
It’s most likely no way back for ETH if he miss out on top 4. I think that’s reality. It may be wrong, but under most circumstances it’s the right decision. It has to be a very observably positive thing; naturalness or nobrainer to make an exemption for ETH.
The game on Thursday is on. Nothing confirmed for next weekend yet.
No way. We need to give more time and windows for him to fix the problems that have been built over the last decade. Top 4 is a possibility, but the league is so much stronger now, hardly an easy game in there. Europa League win to get into CL is also important. That means he’s got to go full strength for almost every game and hope we don’t pick up too many injuries, as the squad is still not deep enough.
Nah… Last season we ended on 6th place, and last season is the worst season I remember. We have to do better than that, especially because we have gotten rid of both deadwood and troublemakers and bought several expensive players. If ETH doesn’t fix something (bring us higher on the table) during one season he isn’t going to fix anything.
Don’t agree the league is more competitive today compared with the three last seasons. Arsenal and City have probably become better, but Liverpool is on decline and Tottenham and Chelsea are pretty much on the same level.
Agree with the first halve. I think we still stand by him even if we miss out top 4 this season. We’ve backed him to much in the summer to turn our backs on him. Plus klopp finished like 8th in his first season. I don’t think we’ll miss out though this season, I think we’ll finish 3rd/4th. We’re quite lucky that Chelsea and Liverpool are having worse seasons then us at the minute.
Apples and Oranges. The goal is to score goals and win the game. Possession football doesn‘t mean high possession stats are the goal, it is a means to score and prevent the opponent from scoring.
I prefer the term Hag ball anyways.
Depends on how we do over the season. If we miss it by miles by playing dull football, he is gone. But if we see a significant progress in our style , I don't think top 4 (5 from next year) would be the criteria
AWB was out for personal reasons, he had no other options, it was either let Dalot play the full game or give him some rest for Sunday (which obviously got postponed but he had no way of knowing).
Fred as cam worked initially, he was pressing energetically. His passing was awful though. If he doesn‘t improve, we will see less and less of him.
Eriksen has to play as dlp/cm, we have no one else.
It’s true that every manager will apply his own idea and adapt to what’s available to him. He is very flexible. Ten Hag ball is a good name.
I think a Fred-Casemiro pivot could work as well, providing Eriksen is the cam and Ronaldo doesn't play. Otherwise there wouldn't be enough creativity.
we were in a terrible state when he took over, with some serious squad issues.. I think you have to look at each situation and assess
if we miss out but he has us moving in the right direction, I think we’d be mad to give up on him
Obviously. But that shouldn't happen very often (or at all) if the setup is right.
If the manager is constantly unhappy with the proposed transfers, you have a major problem: either your transfer policy is shite...or it might be time to let the manager go.
(It's not about having a DOF randomly suggest players that the manager may or may not like. It's about designing a transfer policy that is sustainable long-term.)
Managers who are so inflexible that they can't work with good players unless they fit perfectly, are also a massive problem. It's time to move on in that scenario.
The current football market is a sellers market. If you want to get good value and not constantly get rinsed every summer, you need to sign the players who are in favourable negotiating positions.
He is the perfect manager for Manchester United. He is outspoken and demands more from the player in training if this manager cannot help this team to get good results then no one can.
The first one is nearly 50/50 and the second one they're 11 vs 10 for the majority of the match.
Yes, and I do understand what you are saying about 'strength in depth' etc. however I still am a firmer believer in always putting out your best team, whatever the match. Obviously, injuries play a part and as a result of an injury, or in some rare cases is possibly to avoid making a small injury worse, then yes play your alternatives. However, ETH made 6 unforced (as far as we can tell) changes against Real Sociedad, presumably to give some players game time and/or to try out different combinations of players, e.g., Fred playing 10 yards further up the pitch in a more advanced role, possibly because for Brazil Casimera plays with Fred in such a position?
My argument is that these unforced changes reduced the game, as a spectacle to little more than 'practice match' status, which, as much as anything else, is unfair on the fans who turned up, or who paid 'to tune' in, etc.
I remember many years ago listening to a radio interview with Matt Busby, who was explaining that he always told players that fans came along to be entertained, that was their job and his too, to provide that entertainment, he also told them that for many, especially on a Saturday afternoon (very few evening matches then) it was the only break they got from the monotony of everyday working life. It was apparantly one of Busby's mantra's about 'professional' football.
Time have change, or course they have, players even though ten times fitter than they used to be still, need 'rest days'??? Managers apparently can't sort out player combinations on the training pitch and have to use real matches for practice purposes... for me these are all excuses. The aim to entertain fans is in my book paramount, in every game where the players pull on a Man United jersey!
Yes but the poster said he had less possession than BVB.
Players will need to be heavily rotated this season. Barring the international break we will now have two games a week all the way up until the World Cup. You can’t play the best team every three/four days.
Yes, you can, unless there are injuries, then the player standing next in line for the shirt gets his chance... if he doesn't take it then it could be weeks before he gets another shot at it, best motivation in the world for a true professional.... 'carpe diem'.
Rio said the other day he loved playing two days per week because the normal training schedule, which bored him (apparently) was reduced to basic exercises
The reason players cannot play two matches a week because someone (possibly with a vested interest) tells them they can't?
If ETH is not going to put out his best team, then I would be grateful if he told me when and for those occasions the club refunded some of the ticket money.
First one they are up 2-0 after half hour.
I watched both matches: Dortmund was completely outclassed in both.
With possession style football. I know some here are trying to create a point that Ten Hag does not really favour a possession style, but that is bs.
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Sports science and data says they can’t. Do you not remember Ole, Klopp and Pep all going pretty apeshit one season about the condensed schedule and the effect it was having on players and injuries?
If you aren’t switched on enough to realise that ETH may not play his best starting 11 in the group stage of the Europa league, then the fault lies with you. Did you blame Fergie for playing youth in early rounds of the league cup? Most top teams see the league cup / early Europa League stages as times for rotation. It’s like you’ve just started watching football this season.
There you go, vested interests.... sports scientists who need to justify their salary.... and managers who needed excuses
Of course, I am that's what I am complaining about... do keep up!
Ah so you just don’t believe in sports science.
More why would you waste your time going to a game if you already know they aren’t going to play the team you specifically want. Every game needs to be the exact players YOU want or else it isn’t worth it. You write as if you were surprised shocked and horrified that your precious time was wasted. Again every manager does this - even Fergie did, I don’t know why you’re acting like it’s some affront to your personal well being.
I am simply expounding/moaning about, my own (pet) theory about why fan entertainment is no longer the driving cause for managers/teams.
Football is at its heart a simple game, but it's made to seem more complex, it's a kind 'complexity growth' in the game that expands to ensure more people get to 'dip their bread'... so to speak, a kind of variation on Parkinson's law (work expands to fill the time allowed for it).
All the meaningless stats ...it's the score that counts.
Even with VAR...... it's still down to the referee's decision.
All the chat from ex-pros/commentators/TV personalities, etc.... that tries to hide their bias, or allow them to build 'castles in the air' about interpretation of the rules.
We've seen what happens when the carpetbaggers (e.g., the likes of our current owners) take over the profitable clubs. I fear with the potential involvement of the likes of Netflix, Amazon, Disney+ etc. i.e., the mass (live) media producers, football will no longer be the working people's favourite sport, it will become a variation on Hollywood, especially when the advent/market positioning (world-wide) of the new Super League will knock the PL of its top spot, because that is what its being set up to do and why English clubs should stay away...far away.
Our game should value the customers it has already, because once they get turned off/jettisoned (e.g.) who needs 75,000 watching live in a stadium, when 750,000,000 are also watching live on zoom links or some such streaming play... worldwide!!
OK I know my plea to always play your best team, is a sort of 'King Canute' thing for managers... but I fear the worse when the last vestiges of honesty disappear, and this starts at pitch side, not in the boardrooms.
OK rant over, thanks for joining in!
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