Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24

[el3mel]

What you’re expecting after 4 games isn’t founded in reality. Not only that but there actually have been positive signs, I.e the last 3 goals we’ve scored.

No one said I'm expecting a prime Barca team, not even did I say what I was expecting anyway. The poster told me if I'm willing to wait till we're able to control the ball better, I told him I will if I start seeing signs of this actually happening on the pitch, which I'm not seeing at the moment. Nothing of this is against Ten Hag, and nothing of this indicate I'm expecting him to turn the team into prime Barca by now. What I'm saying is that once I see signs of what I actually want develop on the pitch, I'll be happy to wait for it.

But of course, some like you or even the other posters jump the gun and attack anyone for daring to say a slight negative thing about the team. Nothing new, this forum has always been like that ever since I joined. No one can voice his opinion here and not get attacked by - ironically enough - always the same insults and same claims. It has been 6 managers post SAF and this discussion has happened in the exact same way for every single one of them.

 

[BluesJr]

November is insane. This will take years to get where we want to be

We saw Klopp develop his ideas fairly quickly in season one. I expect the same. Finished product? Nowhere near obviously.

 

[The United]

He seems to learn quickly, which is a good thing.

You just hope he doesn't end up like Ole, who said he tried to play 'progressive' football and compromised a little due to not having the 'right player' before losing his way completely at all, or VG, who played with extreme caution in possession.

 

[Kill 'em all]

It will take replacing most of the players in our team until he can fully implement his style.

 

[cyberman]

We saw Klopp develop his ideas fairly quickly in season one. I expect the same. Finished product? Nowhere near obviously.

Didn’t they finish 8th in his first season or something?
Plus the standard of the league is miles higher than it was back then imo.
I would say there’s a little wiggle room for Ten Hag. From the start of last season to today we have beaten all but Chelsea and City who finished in the top 7. That’s the worst United team of all side. It may have been a disaster but I really believe there’s a flicker of something to work with there. Imo we seem to try v top sides (more or less) and just stroll about against the others. Just getting us to try could bring a big change, a bit of defensive cop on. I could see Ten Hag prioritising that and developing a base rather than setting out dictating play away from home in the EPL

 

[Xaviboy]

I want to see some more of his ideas in our play by November at least. I cannot watch another season of counter attacking and no cohesive possession. Does my head in.

There's bits of our play today on the ball was decent. Good move for the goal.

Just like to see us control the game more.
I would love for another midfielder to come in, someone who can control tempo of game and dictate play.


I thinkTen Hag as changed his tune and now relises the premier league is different kettle of fish to the Dutch league. We might see more games with direct balls and could see a target man type centre forward coming in and will play alot of games.

Rashford not good enough with his back to play so centre forward out of the question now for him.

 

[The United]

I want to see some more of his ideas in our play by November at least. I cannot watch another season of counter attacking and no cohesive possession. Does my head in.

Nothing wrong with counter attacking football as long as we executed it perfectly. We did and still do have problems with our defensive organization which needed to be fixed in any type of football we want to play.

Didn't RM beat both Pool and City in CL last season without playing a possession football style at all?

 

[Wayne's World]

Definitely the right man for the job but needs backing and the right players to implement his system

If we had new owners we would be close to winning the big trophies again in no time with him

 

[Red the Bear]

Wonder when he'll win the UEFA coach of the year award.

 

[Josh 76]

There's bits of our play today on the ball was decent. Good move for the goal.

Just like to see us control the game more.
I would love for another midfielder to come in, someone who can control tempo of game and dictate play.


I thinkTen Hag as changed his tune and now relises the premier league is different kettle of fish to the Dutch league. We might see more games with direct balls and could see a target man type centre forward coming in and will play alot of games.

Rashford not good enough with his back to play so centre forward out of the question now for him.

I would rather see us playing different styles and wining, than playing only one way and losing.

 

[Eddy_JukeZ]

Hopefully in 6 months time we're able to control games better, but getting wins is huge for a morale booster.

 

[Trophy Room]

Relax......

To everyone complaining about McTominay playing today.....

When Casemiro understands what Ten Hag expects of him he will start and play most games. He hasn't signed him for him not to play. Same as Martinez, Malacia and Eriksen, he will be introduced within a couple of weeks.

I'd have thought he probably comes in for the Arsenal game if not Leicester. It's quite some change moving from Spain to England and also changing Kroos and Modric for Bruno and Eriksen.

Casemiro will have to do more on the ball than he has had to at Madrid but he's a smart player who will pick it up over the next couple of weeks.

McT played well today. There is a player in there.

 

[Berbaclass]

Cool video.

 

[AshRK]

This is not a quick fix. People think this is Fifa. Do you remember the dull inconsistent performance Liverpool produced under Klopp's first 1 and a half season. There were some good things but then till VVD came they looked all over the place defensively. Even offensively it took time for them to consistently look good.

Eth is not a magician, he cannot turds into diamonds. Had he been given FDJ and a progressive keeper, things would have looked different. It will take time and we fans have to be patient.

 

[bond19821982]

I want to see some more of his ideas in our play by November at least. I cannot watch another season of counter attacking and no cohesive possession. Does my head in.

Serious opinion- you should stay out of watching united if that's what your expectation. We will do feck all by Nov. We may get our fitness correct by then. Players like Elanga , Rashford isn't going to show you any "ideas" .

 

[Gasolin]

Why do I need to stop? its the truth. Maguire dislikes running. Look at the 4th Brentford goal and that's the exact reason why he isn't starting right now.

You just cannot play on the front foot with a defender that is reluctant to follow runners.

Because when we are back to a possession football, Maguire will most likely be the first name on the team sheet. He's more suited for that type of game when we have the ball.

 

[Nevilles.Wear.Prada]

In order to win, first you have to become hard to beat.


Me.

 

[Tarrou]

For me it's quite clear at this point that he plays Mctominay for height on defensive and attacking set pieces alone, because he still can't trust our defence. Once the defence is settled and get to desired level, plus with the introduction of Casemiro, I am sure he will be ni more than rotation option at best.

ETH doesn't seem that stupid.

Yeah and his physical presence in midfield is quite useful too, especially against the likes of Southampton who always play really aggressive against us

Everyone was convinced McT would be the one to be dropped from McFred - I'm not so sure now

 

[bosnian_red]

Because when we are back to a possession football, Maguire will most likely be the first name on the team sheet. He's more suited for that type of game when we have the ball.

Not a chance. Maguire isn't that good with the ball. And there is such a large chasm between himself and Varane as general centerbacks, and Ten Hag also alluded to that fact, that he's not going to be a starter. Martinez is the ball playing centerback, and Varane is plenty fine on the ball anyway for it to not be an issue. We need a goalkeeper who can play out better, and we need a better deep playmaker, but other than that.... Maguire isn't entering this team if all are fit and ready.

 

[Tarrou]

Because when we are back to a possession football, Maguire will most likely be the first name on the team sheet. He's more suited for that type of game when we have the ball.

ETH will want to play a high line too, and Maguire will be the last player he wants in that system because he can't run for shit

 

[bosnian_red]

He's gonna turn out the same as his predecessors if he doesn't figure out the midfield quickly.

Given that he signed 2 midfielders and wants another, and wants a left footed right winger, and wants Ronaldo out, and wants another a goalkeeper to compete with de Gea.... I'd say he knows what he needs and what he can or can't do. He prioritized fixing our deep midfield line. Pretty obvious answer that many managers love ignoring. It'll take time. But pretty clear that he's identified the right issues.

 

[RedOrange]

I thinkTen Hag as changed his tune and now relises the premier league is different kettle of fish to the Dutch league. We might see more games with direct balls and could see a target man type centre forward coming in and will play alot of games.

Rashford not good enough with his back to play so centre forward out of the question now for him.

This particular thought is thrown around constantly and I don't think there's really any basis for it. In fact his transfer targets are a very good indication of the opposite. The two players he's brought over are already starting matches in place of previously nailed on starters at both United and the English national team. I think the main thing ETH underestimated was the club's ability to get transfers done.

Also he hasn't just naively been playing Rashford at CF, he's been forced into it because of Martial's injuries and Ronaldo being unfit (and possibly past it). There's nobody else to play there, which is why they've been trying (but failing) to get a proper CF in for 2-3 months now.

 

[mav_9me]

Because when we are back to a possession football, Maguire will most likely be the first name on the team sheet. He's more suited for that type of game when we have the ball.

Could not disagree more. I do agree his passing is good when he has time on the ball. However if we ever become a possession team, that means we'll be playing a high line. And with his general slowness/ lack of intensity, that would be a disaster. Mark my words, Maguire will be sold next summer

 

[Strelok]

For me it's quite clear at this point that he plays Mctominay for height on defensive and attacking set pieces alone, because he still can't trust our defence. Once the defence is settled and get to desired level, plus with the introduction of Casemiro, I am sure he will be ni more than rotation option at best.

ETH doesn't seem that stupid.

How about this?

Looking at how our window currently goes it's probably not a bad idea for ETH to consider McT as our #9 next match. He's strong, quite fast, tall, work hard, aggressive and actually not a bad finisher. A bit shit on the ball though and doesn't have the brain but honestly can't be worse than Rashford or Ronaldo up there. Starting him there would also send a freaking message to the Glazers and everyone.

We can start Casemiro then and still keep the advantage of having McT in set pieces.

I'm only joking please don't jump on me

 

[izak]

There's bits of our play today on the ball was decent. Good move for the goal.

Just like to see us control the game more.
I would love for another midfielder to come in, someone who can control tempo of game and dictate play.


I thinkTen Hag as changed his tune and now relises the premier league is different kettle of fish to the Dutch league. We might see more games with direct balls and could see a target man type centre forward coming in and will play alot of games.

Rashford not good enough with his back to play so centre forward out of the question now for him.

I think he knows majority of our attackers aren't good at hold up play, there was a pass fizzed into Rashford late in the game. After we had fought so hard to win back possession, Rashy lost it and we were on the back foot again.

So yea we need a good technical big man(Victor Osimehen) that can score goals aswell as being a team player.

 

[zenith]

In order to implement his style, he needs a few new players in his team. Let positions bring GK, transition midfielder (FDJ) and a pressing winger (Anthony). The rest he can still work with, including Dalot at RB.

This summer, he may get Anthony at a max bit that still leaves him short. So I don't believe we will fully get there before next year in terms of style

 

[Greck]

This particular thought is thrown around constantly and I don't think there's really any basis for it. In fact his transfer targets are a very good indication of the opposite. The two players he's brought over are already starting matches in place of previously nailed on starters at both United and the English national team. I think the main thing ETH underestimated was the club's ability to get transfers done.

Also he hasn't just naively been playing Rashford at CF, he's been forced into it because of Martial's injuries and Ronaldo being unfit (and possibly past it). There's nobody else to play there, which is why they've been trying (but failing) to get a proper CF in for 2-3 months now.

I agree. No compromise is permanent. He's just adapting till he can phase out all the technically lacking players. When we reach our final form it will be nothing like route one football. He absolutely doesn't want to forfeit the midfield battle to the likes of Southampton. It's a temporary sacrifice

 

[Shimo]

There was a lot of criticism for Rashford today in the #9 for us and rightfully so. I still can't recall any of the touches he had through the whole match. After Monday's performance, maybe he was under impression that only way to play that role was to just make runs and try get behind or just be on the shoulder waiting for a through ball. However, in a game like today we really needed him to be available as a target at times. So it was good to hear that at half time ETH said that is something they emphasized and how that allowed us to have the better first 15 minutes. I don't recall his (Rashford) influence but, it must have been there I guess.

If we are going to use Rashford as 9 in games, especially ones like today, then ETH/coaches have to make sure he knows he has to be that target at times, come short once in a while help link play through the middle for us to bring in the likes Bruno and Eriksen closer to goal.

One thing ETH surprised me so far is reluctance to take Eriksen off - for both the Liverpool and this game, thought he would/should have come off a lot sooner.

 

[RoadTrip]

Southampton always cause us issues so a win away from home is a good result. There’s not a lot of control in our play but it’s early days and the first season - what is positive is his signings are all doing decently.

It’s a hard start for him and I think he’s doing well so far, dropping Ronaldo and Maguire and 6/6 points after that is testament. We also are very light in key areas still.

Do they? I don’t think we have lost at St Mary’s since like 2003 or something. Not that I disagree with your post by the way.

 

[largelyworried]

There's bits of our play today on the ball was decent. Good move for the goal.

Just like to see us control the game more.
I would love for another midfielder to come in, someone who can control tempo of game and dictate play.


I thinkTen Hag as changed his tune and now relises the premier league is different kettle of fish to the Dutch league. We might see more games with direct balls and could see a target man type centre forward coming in and will play alot of games.

Rashford not good enough with his back to play so centre forward out of the question now for him.

This is exactly what he did with his second team in Netherlands so not sure it would really be considered that much of a change. He had Haller up front, who is definitely a classic target man centre forward.

 

[Idxomer]

Do they? I don’t think we have lost at St Mary’s since like 2003 or something. Not that I disagree with your post by the way.

Yes, a lot of draws in the last few years and when we win it's usually in stoppage time.

 

[Escobar]

His signings look good for now..
Mallacia, Martinez look like good signings

You remember the outrage just 2 weeks ago?

 

[OpenIntrovert]

He's done a Van Gaal. Watched us ship a bunch of goals against mid-table trash, ditched his total football approach and set us up to be hard to beat. Not complaining right now given how poor some of our midfielders and attackers are, but hopefully this is only a temporary measure.

He didnt ditch. Football can only be played in ways depending on the attributes of the players. The midfield and attackers that are playing right now are the best the current squad can offer for ETH's formation. Due to their differing attributes (AMs like Bruno and Eriksen playing as CMs), the team is not able to function properly. Fortunately we have enough quality to get the results.

 

[OpenIntrovert]

One thing ETH surprised me so far is reluctance to take Eriksen off - for both the Liverpool and this game, thought he would/should have come off a lot sooner.

Eriksen has the capability to always pull off a quality pass and is quite composed in his passing, which made ETH keep him on the field. The bench options were not a good alternative for him as well. Garner would be my choice as a sub, but ETH probably feels it is too early for him to play given the current squad competition.

 

[OpenIntrovert]

I thinkTen Hag as changed his tune and now relises the premier league is different kettle of fish to the Dutch league. We might see more games with direct balls and could see a target man type centre forward coming in and will play alot of games.

He didnt change his approach due to the premier league, rather it is adaptive based on the opponent.

Similar to Brentford, Southampton play a compact pressing game which doesnt give us spaces to attack into. So ETH approach was to "pull" Southampton into our half while our forwards stayed on the fringes. Then Martinez, Varane or the last midfielder such as Eriksen would give long passes to bypass their pressing channels to create a quick and direct attack. Unfortunately our forwards were making bad decisions on the ball.

 

[In Rainbows]

He's done a Van Gaal. Watched us ship a bunch of goals against mid-table trash, ditched his total football approach and set us up to be hard to beat. Not complaining right now given how poor some of our midfielders and attackers are, but hopefully this is only a temporary measure.

No one said I'm expecting a prime Barca team, not even did I say what I was expecting anyway. The poster told me if I'm willing to wait till we're able to control the ball better, I told him I will if I start seeing signs of this actually happening on the pitch, which I'm not seeing at the moment. Nothing of this is against Ten Hag, and nothing of this indicate I'm expecting him to turn the team into prime Barca by now. What I'm saying is that once I see signs of what I actually want develop on the pitch, I'll be happy to wait for it.

But of course, some like you or even the other posters jump the gun and attack anyone for daring to say a slight negative thing about the team. Nothing new, this forum has always been like that ever since I joined. No one can voice his opinion here and not get attacked by - ironically enough - always the same insults and same claims. It has been 6 managers post SAF and this discussion has happened in the exact same way for every single one of them.

I think his instructions have been consistent, but the players haven't taken to it well. After Brentford, he said that he instructed de Gea to make the assessment of whether or not pressure is soaked up, therefore play it long to bypass their press or play it short if they're standing back or are not committed to their press. de Gea instead decided to play it short everytime, causing us to concede a goal. Now he's just playing it long regardless of the pressure.

It feels like they can only operate under absolute terms (play it long, or short everytime in the match).

Or it could be the instructions to just abandon playing short. I'm still going off of what was said after the Brentford match.


I will like to see us playing more like our preseason side within the next month. Even if there are bumpy roads, I want the players to have courage and to follow the instructions from our preseason.

 

[little.triangles]

It is not just a matter of time. ETH will not be able to enforce his style unless he has players who can keep the ball.

How many do we have in our team right now? Eriksen, Sancho, Martial when he is fit, and maybe Casemiro. Rashford, Ronaldo, Bruno, Fred, McT - none of them can keep the ball when the team is put under pressure by the opposition. This is why after the goal when Southampton finally attacked us, we retreated into a complete defensive shape.

The club is failing ETH by not adding the right players to the squad - specifically a ball playing midfielder, and a CF who will stay fit and is a team-player unlike Ronaldo.

 

[Trequarista10]

He's done a Van Gaal. Watched us ship a bunch of goals against mid-table trash, ditched his total football approach and set us up to be hard to beat. Not complaining right now given how poor some of our midfielders and attackers are, but hopefully this is only a temporary measure.

I remember being a bit annoyed with LVG after he ditched the diamond. The formation could have worked, and was working in fact. There's actually a misconception that we stopped playing it immediately after we lost to Leicester 5-3 when he tried playing a front 3 with Rooney at 10, Van Persie and Falcao upfront, so there was a complete lack of pace and stamina. We were nonetheless on top despite this, went 3-1 up, Leicester fairly fortunately made it 3-3 with some help from a dodgy pen, then LVG subbed off Di Maria who could make the LCM position work, and played Mata at LCM, who definitely couldn't make it work, and Mata got bulldozed in midfield for their 4th. Oh and we also had Blackett at LCB, who then gave away a penalty and got sent off for the 5th.

Anyway, more importantly, we continued with the diamond and won the next to games, against West Ham and Everton (despite bizarrely playing Valencia at RCM against Everton, making him the most one footed player to ever play in a central midfield position). We then switched to a 451/433, and didn't win any of the next three games.

That said, you're right there is a similarity. I think ETH has realised Eriksen-Fred duo is too lightweight, and none of our CMs could play as a lone 6, and Bruno not as an 8, so he reverted to a 4231 the last couple games with McTominay in for some physicality next to Eriksen and Bruno back in his 10 position. He may change it again once Casemiro is in the starting XI, go for a lone 6.

 

[Revaulx]

Yeah and his physical presence in midfield is quite useful too, especially against the likes of Southampton who always play really aggressive against us

Everyone was convinced McT would be the one to be dropped from McFred - I'm not so sure now

Good point. But don’t forget that Scott had a few games after Ralf came in where he looked really decent, only to tail off thereafter.

I’d love it for that not to happen this time around, but he seems to have inconsistency hard wired into him, sadly.

 

[Eddy_JukeZ]

For all the talk of our play on the ball, I'm hoping our pressing begins to show more and more too.

I don't think we've pressed that much thus far.