Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24

Status
Not open for further replies.
Knux said:
I try to remind myself that Klopp came 8thhis first season at Liverpool.
Click to expand...
Didn’t Klopp also reach the Europa league and League Cup finals that season with a squad he had no hand in building?
 
I expected us to struggle at the start of the season but obviously didn't see it being this bad. ten Hag was always going to make mistakes, it's how he learns from them and how he adapts that matters. That's when we'll know if he's up to the job. He still has my confidence, we can't give up on him after two games.
 
mu4c_20le said:
I still laugh. Imagine if ole took over mourinho who himself finished 2nd and said he needed a new XI
Click to expand...
The playing roster when Ole took over had a whole bunch of relatively young talented players with a lot of potential. The dressing room still seemed to be (other than Lukaku and maybe Sanchez) quite happy with each other and all the problems seemed to be with the manager who was constantly blaming players (often the players who were actually performing the best) for his own mistakes. Confidence was a bit shaky which was obvious with how streaky we were, but there was plenty to work with.

By the time Ole was fired those young players were now in the middle of their career and had gone backwards, and the one new youngster with potential that had broken through was a month away from getting arrested and almost certainly not playing for the club again. The dressing room seemed completely mentally broken, and the confidence had declined to basically negligible levels.

ETH (and Ralf before him) walked into a far worse situation than Ole did.
 
ilrm said:
Didn’t Klopp also reach the Europa league and League Cup finals that season with a squad he had no hand in building?
Click to expand...
I dont care, it wasnt a great season for them and that was my point. Maybe we have to accept another mediocre season to reach greatness again.
 
The biggest disappointment for me is that he apparently was meticulously analyzing our weaknesses before joining, yet has persisted with them in the first two games. Brighton targeted the space behind Maguire, Brentford putting our defence and CM under pressure. The first warning signs was there when he ignored Ralf and told everyone we have a good squad and pointed to the 2nd place finish. Hopefully that was just for show and that he is working on the open heart surgery needed behind the scenes.
 
Leftback99 said:

Why has he come in and decided he knows better after saying that? The line up today was so naive.
Click to expand...

So this match is what gives you the impression that he knows better than that (aka contradicting himself)? Why are you already making a judgement after 2 matches? And by judgement, I specifically mean you have already decided that he has abandoned that thought? Maybe he's just making do with what he currently has and plans to change that over the season (including with transfer windows)?

I think it's completely fair to critique his confidence in his squad, ie that he will be able to at least mask the awfulness of his squad through his system. But it's another thing to then conflate that with the idea that he no longer believes that or that he didn't think about it.
 
MadDogg said:
The playing roster when Ole took over had a whole bunch of relatively young talented players with a lot of potential. The dressing room still seemed to be (other than Lukaku and maybe Sanchez) quite happy with each other and all the problems seemed to be with the manager who was constantly blaming players (often the players who were actually performing the best) for his own mistakes. Confidence was a bit shaky which was obvious with how streaky we were, but there was plenty to work with.

By the time Ole was fired those young players were now in the middle of their career and had gone backwards, and the one new youngster with potential that had broken through was a month away from getting arrested and almost certainly not playing for the club again. The dressing room seemed completely mentally broken, and the confidence had declined to basically negligible levels.

ETH (and Ralf before him) walked into a far worse situation than Ole did.
Click to expand...
Ok, that's fair.
 
Will Singh said:
He bought a short CB and has thrown all he’s eggs in De Jong who’s not built for the PL at this stage for us.
Click to expand...
Did you say the same thing in case of Evra too ? Such a knee jerking comment. We deserve everything we get.
 
BarstoolProphet said:
The biggest disappointment for me is that he apparently was meticulously analyzing our weaknesses before joining, yet has persisted with them in the first two games. Brighton targeted the space behind Maguire, Brentford putting our defence and CM under pressure. The first warning signs was there when he ignored Ralf and told everyone we have a good squad and pointed to the 2nd place finish. Hopefully that was just for show and that he is working on the open heart surgery needed behind the scenes.
Click to expand...
Ralph did the same mistakes, mate. He continued to play the same players who were underperfomingntjat he said were shit, whilst he was a shambles man management wise, and throwing them under the bus to save his own skin.
 
ETH's football requires some specific kind of players to execute it. However, even with the squad he has he shouldn't be humillated by brentford.
 
Will Singh said:
He bought a short CB and has thrown all he’s eggs in De Jong who’s not built for the PL at this stage for us.
Click to expand...
I don't think that quote means everybody in the team needs to be some physical monster. So not sure why De Jong is included in this. Having him won't exclude the side from having a more physical presence next to him for example.
 
I said this again if United did all the effort to bring the manager like ETH then should put all the effort to bring the players he want.

You need four players minimum to play his way. Good RB, two fabulous midfielders and a Right winger. Bring them in to help out the young manager. He needs all the helping hand from the board otherwise it would turn toxic for owners.

Board really playing with fire in my opinion.United faithfuls will turn on them if not already.Bring four players before next game against liverpool.
 
The Mitcher said:
Pre-season lasts from June to August mate...stop this deluded coping.
Click to expand...
But he actually got the side to work harder during preseason. He got the side to play to his instructions. It's the current actual season (which is 2 matches) that he hasn't been able to do that. Therefore, we're discussing 2 matches in which he hasn't been able to get them to play to his instructions.
 
One thing I will say is that ten Hag has got make us more difficult to play against. As poor as the quality and depth of this team is (and make no mistake about it, it is extremely poor), we can't be conceding goals like we've conceded today.

Every goal today was comical from a defensive standpoint. He won't be able to do anything about some of that because realistically he's not going to play Tom Heaton against Liverpool, but something has to change. Play 3 at the back, drop players who lose the ball cheaply like Fernandes, or the ones who look like they're resentful about having to wear the United shirt like Rashford. Anything.
 
To much negativity around, it's going to be tough. But please don't judge EtH, it is really not fair, he needs more time to implement a lot of his things and yes, we are all stressed but right now it's about patience, work and discipline.
 
In Rainbows said:
But he actually got the side to work harder during preseason. He got the side to play to his instructions. It's the current actual season (which is 2 matches) that he hasn't been able to do that. Therefore, we're discussing 2 matches in which he hasn't been able to get them to play to his instructions.
Click to expand...
So if he managed to do it in preseason, why not now when it matters?
 
In Rainbows said:
So this match is what gives you the impression that he knows better than that (aka contradicting himself)? Why are you already making a judgement after 2 matches? And by judgement, I specifically mean you have already decided that he has abandoned that thought? Maybe he's just making do with what he currently has and plans to change that over the season (including with transfer windows)?

I think it's completely fair to critique his confidence in his squad, ie that he will be able to at least mask the awfulness of his squad through his system. But it's another thing to then conflate that with the idea that he no longer believes that or that he didn't think about it.
Click to expand...
It was painfully obvious we'd be targeted in this match with long balls and at set pieces. He went with the team I expected but personally I said he should be playing Varane over Martinez at least. Coupled with (rightfully) dropping McTominay who at least has some physicality (compared to 80% of our team) it was just asking for trouble.
 
With the current squad, we should line up something like this:

Ronaldo
Bruno ------------ Sancho
Malacia ---- Fred ---- Eriksen ---- Dalot
Martinez - Varane - Maguire
DDG
​
With signings:

2 CMs such as Rabiot, Guido, De Jong
RWB like Dumfries
One or two attackers, such as Morata, Zaniolo

To replace/compete with Fred, Eriksen, Dalot and the front 3.
 
hopefully he’s showing maguire videos of phil jagielka on the bus ride back to manchester.
 
The Mitcher said:
Ralph did the same mistakes, mate. He continued to play the same players who were underperfomingntjat he said were shit, whilst he was a shambles man management wise, and throwing them under the bus to save his own skin.
Click to expand...

Oh, I'm not saying Ralf needs to be painted like something else than a failed manager, but he saw all of the issues and was even willing to turn that over to the new manager. Also he was just a temp manager who was hamstrung (see January transfer window before everything really went to shit) because of that. This is the same set of players (apart from backup LB, a free transfer CM and the 10th CB addition) who have got three managers fired and open heart surgery is needed, not clean slates for the umpteenth time.
 
hellhunter said:
So if he managed to do it in preseason, why not now when it matters?
Click to expand...
Because the players crumble under pressure (in possession lack confidence, and while losing lack fight). Isn't that the likely answer? Isn't that the reason why we all want our players replaced? Because they're broken?

One would think that after more matches, those players who do not play to his instructions will be phased out, but that judgement period on ETH is longer than 2 matches.
 
Zero sympathy from me, just hoping he will see light and shovel that shit to reserves if he cant get rid via sell/loans.
 
In Rainbows said:
Because the players crumble under pressure (in possession lack confidence, and while losing lack fight). Isn't that the likely answer? Isn't that the reason why we all want our players replaced? Because they're broken?

One would think that after more matches, those players who do not play to his instructions will be phased out, but that judgement period on ETH is longer than 2 matches.
Click to expand...
I see where you're coming from, but how many hammerings do we have to excuse in his evaluation period?
 
The big question for me is whether ETH demanded basically full control in the transfer market. Also whether he was the one who actively didn't want to bother to even meet Rangnick and find out about his experiences and thoughts about things.

If he did, then he has no excuses and has to live or die by the sword (although Murtough also is to blame for agreeing to it). With the new regime and with Ralf being a consultant, I was finally confident we'd learnt the lessons from the past and were going to start moving the right way where the club itself is run properly. The manager, while obviously providing a valued opinion, should not be the main man in building the entire squad. Especially not when first joining; maybe after a few years if he proves he deserves more of a say. Then we got rid of Rangnick and my confidence started dropping, followed quickly by the transfer targets apparently limited only to who the manager knew, and also obviously almost all the squad being given yet another chance.

Alternatively, did ETH walk into a club where the scouting network was terrible and was in the process of being dismantled and rebuilt, leaving him in the position where he had no choice but to take control and go after the players that he had first hand knowledge of? If so, then I feel sorry for him and our terrible position isn't really his fault.

In either case, hopefully we can do enough to get through this season without it going to shit too much, and then by next season our scouting network and decision making will hopefully be refined enough to make the correct decisions.
 
hellhunter said:
So if he managed to do it in preseason, why not now when it matters?
Click to expand...

Good question. Something must have changed. Maybe the Ronaldo business upset things, or looking to replace established players with new buys has caused ructions. Who knows but the displays against Brighton and Brentford were not those of a team following any sort of game plan.
 
What is finally a bonus, is that there’s no way - short of actual relegation territory at Christmas - that he gets the boot. If there’s one thing we can count on the club to do, it’s to not make changes, or to make them agonisingly slowly You think they want to go through a process of finding another interim and all the googling that will entail?

So all the negative nancy’s might as well give full support and optimism to the new manager as nothing will change for months anyway.
 
In Rainbows said:
You don't have to be positive. There's a difference between that and questioning the manager's aptitude 2 games in. Give him time to actually make changes. Let the manager find out who he can trust and who absolutely cannot be considered even a squad player.

Every player, even a good one can have a bad match or two. Knowing this, how can you extrapolate an entire season's performance based on that? You can't just be completely reactionary and make wholesale changes every match with no continuity in the squad. It's not good for anybody. The new players will not be able to get used to their own teammates if you do things that way.

What you guys are asking for is
1. New keeper by match 3
2. Maguire no longer CB. Play Varane.
3. Malacia as the starter now
4. No more Dalot
5. Bench Rashford, start Garnacho
6. Bench Bruno
7. Get another #6 after trying Fred, knowing McTominay can't do it, and having tried Erikson
8. Play Garner
9. Play Iqbal


And I agree with a lot of these asks btw! I just don't think any sane coach will do these all at once, because every change has the potential to fail also. They too will have to be taken out if we're being reactionary. And so on and so on. There has to be some continuity.

As long as I see changes (over a longer period of time than just a match per change), I'll be happy.

We've already started with trying out different 6s. Next it will be good to see Malacia take over for Shaw as he did after a half. If we get 2 new midfielder, it will be far easier to replace Bruno with Erikson and see some continuity in the middle of the park because they will be on a longer leash.
Click to expand...
He fkd up. Can we not call a spade a spade? Sure you can make all the excuses in the world and maybe they are genuine reasons but at the end of the day he fkd up. Did he or did he not? Or was none of it his fault?
 
Marwood said:
Completely agree it was about desperation but nonetheless it happened. It's incorrect to say we can't carry out numerous deals at the same time. This club has no problem buying and selling lots of players.

We just can't buy the right one's.
Click to expand...

When you look at the last decade of signings, it's incredibly worrying how many you can describe as an outright success.
Players might have had good seasons, but then followed them up with shocking ones.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.