Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24

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UnofficialDevil said:
De Ligt's struggles at Bayern and Juventus have been well-documented, despite his impressive six months at Ajax.
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He played 2 full seasons at Ajax and certainly didnt struggle at Juventus, if he did why were FC Bayern happy to fork out €77m for him.

The FC Bayern fans have created a patition calling for him to not be sold and calling him one of the best CB's in the world so it doesnt sound like he has struggled very much their either.
 
UnofficialDevil said:
De Ligt's struggles at Bayern and Juventus have been well-documented, despite his impressive six months at Ajax.
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You should produce said documents because to be honest you are just making it up. Especially if you think he only played well at Ajax for 6 months.
 
MiceOnMeth said:
Anybody genuinely excited about the new season knowing ETH is the manager?
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I will always be excited when a new season starts because it’s a new season and you never know how things will go. However I will have a much lower threshold for that excitement disappearing and feeling hopeless than I did last season:lol:

To be clear it’s nothing to do with me believing ETH is going to do a good job, it’s just the nature of a new season coming around.
 
devilish said:
According to Stretford paddock, Fletcher told them that ETH is obsessed with mason mount and he was pushing to sign him up
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There's been a tonne of PR work done by ETHs agent after the announcement he was staying, basically blaming every single thing on others. These same papers like the Athletic have published stories previously talking about how involved he was and how he was pushing for x and y player. But that was when the narrative was positive and the fans were ******* themselves silly over these players. Now they're looking like flops, the narrative changes.
 
Sarni said:
At this point I don’t know either. I thought the new contract’s main purpose would be to be a vote of confidence in manager, basically show him that we trust him and will back him despite turbulent months behind us.

This extension, not even being a real extension, does not do that at all. I don’t see any purpose.
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I'm guessing it was at the request of ETH with him staying. He's not going into the last year of his contract without that protection that there's at least a pay out at the end.
 
pocco said:
There's been a tonne of PR work done by ETHs agent after the announcement he was staying, basically blaming every single thing on others. These same papers like the Athletic have published stories previously talking about how involved he was and how he was pushing for x and y player. But that was when the narrative was positive and the fans were ******* themselves silly over these players. Now they're looking like flops, the narrative changes.
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The Athletic loves doing that. I was the first to turn against Murtough. It was evident to me early on that he was a prop set by Woodward to shut the fan's gob for good. In 2022 Athletic came out with an article praising the guy as if he was the second coming of the Christ. In 2023 when the winds had turned and Murtough was doomed, they came with an article that was nothing more then a hit piece. Now any guy can testify of how much I hated the guy (not as a person but as a DOF). But that article literally buried him. There's a reason why the Athletic are so reliable. Its evident who feeds them.
 
It would be more interesting to see what the media opinion was when Bayern payed huge money from Juve. Because I don't really remember, apart from thinking the fee at the time seemed a little steep.
 
pocco said:
He wanted Timber too over Martinez.
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It's a separate discussion but honestly I think the theory on that was more sound than the Martinez signing. We had a few different CBs who wanted to fall back and sweep (Martinez, Varane, Lindelof, Maguire) and no one who wanted to be the ball carrier / aggressive type at RCB. Timber would've provided that.

We signed Martinez and that ended up being the right decision but that also meant we didn't have an actual aggressive RCB for two years now. We're finally fixing that with De Ligt.
 
UnofficialDevil said:
"Bayern Munich defender has only gone backwards since leaving Ajax"

https://www.goal.com/en/lists/erik-...g-ajax/blt80793dba77e38ff2#cs444c6901433a3e77
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Goal.com :lol:

Mate, at this point you might as well start referencing ITKs.

Clearly he didn't go to the next level as many expected, but he didn't regress either. The Bayern fans started a petition to keep him. They already have 50k signatures.

As for the "he had 6 good months at Ajax: you might want to revisit that. He was part of that Ajax team that reached the EL final that eventually lost to us. He's been featuring for Ajax since he was 17. That CL run is what attracted interest from the top clubs. Not bad for 6 months.
 
Cassidy said:
However, Valentijn Driessen has expressed concerns

Its quoting the same source, so still one random journo
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And a fecking horrible one at that. Take the most sour caf member, put that person behind a microphone and you get Valentijn Driessen.
 
MiceOnMeth said:
Anybody genuinely excited about the new season knowing ETH is the manager?
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Bar the Moyes season I've gone into every season post SAF pretty hopeful we could improve on the last one. Finding it hard to get excited at all this summer, hopefully we do well next season but I'd say my expectations are at an all time low.
 
stevoc said:
Bar the Moyes season I've gone into every season post SAF pretty hopeful we could improve on the last one. Finding it hard to get excited at all this summer, hopefully we do well next season but I'd say my expectations are at an all time low.
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Rightly or wrongly I always have hope. My hope this time is that ETH has been told his job depends on us controlling teams better.

But hard to get too excited without a CB and CM
 
Keanes Magic Hat said:
Rightly or wrongly I always have hope. My hope this time is that ETH has been told his job depends on us controlling teams better.

But hard to get too excited without a CB and CM
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Going off how things have panned out and how Ineos have handled the Ten Hag situation. I'm not too hopeful he'll be changing much next season or that he's even been told to change.
 
Keanes Magic Hat said:
Rightly or wrongly I always have hope. My hope this time is that ETH has been told his job depends on us controlling teams better.

But hard to get too excited without a CB and CM
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I'm quietly confident for this season.

I just think as supporters we are often in fantasy football land. Not least with the "sell him to Saudi" or "Saudi will give us £150m" and etc.

Although football has been frustrating at times I do think we forget nuances. So maybe Amads limited time was good management of slowly introducing him after injury.

Maybe Amrabat is decent but needed the first season to get used to the EPL. Vidic and Evra anyone?

Player contracts and playing time is an issue often ignored.

Obviously the injuries, players being noobs etc

I think the structure will help ETH so it won't be him v Sancho or Ronaldo etc

I honestly think this upcoming season will be a fresh start. I'm thinking even Antony will be a different player, and no that fee can't be excused.

Come on the reds



Could be wrong like
 
Crimson King said:
EtH strikes me as the kind of guy who values success over being wealthy and in the right.

There's a lot of doomsday scenarios in here where he's basically scuppering our season like some kind of Scouse sleeper agent! He wants to win, and if the club offer him the chance to sign good players then he won't say no to that.

Also, the club hierarchy can veto his suggestions. It sounds like a recipe for chaos, but I'm reality it just means you have to work together to come to a decision you both agree on.
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I don't believe there's been a single instance during Erik ten Hag's reign where he's vetoed a signing. Under Mourinho there was a transfer committee which was formed due to Mourinho wanting control over transfers by trusting his own personal scouts. This then caused a problem for Woodward who had seen the club revamp the scouting department and hence having Lawlor, Bout and Rybalta in positions of power within the scouting department as heads of scouting.

And with Mourinho not playing ball, it forced Woodward to find a compromise in the form of a transfer committee with both the manager and head scouts having vetoes. The big problem here became the recruitment heads vetoing Mourinho's targets and things got pretty messy and ultimately the football team's development suffered. Rybalta would later resign from his position due to his work being undermined by the manager.

From I understand, we don't have a transfer committee right now, and ten Hag (unlike Mourinho) is working with the club's existing football structure. And having a veto is absolutely fine and should be encouraged because it's about developing a team with a strategy in mind that will eventually manifest itself on match days. The execution of the strategy on the pitch will be the job of the coach and aligning recruitment by having the head coach guide the scouts is a very important aspect of the strategy.

Ralf Rangnick himself mentioned in a press conference about how he wouldn't sign a player at first team level without the consent of the head coach. And unless the recruitment team are putting forward a player that is obviously unsuited to the way the head coach wants to develop the team, then I don't see why ten Hag will veto a potential transfer that has been analysed and scouted thoroughly for a particular style of play.

Dan Ashworth said the below several years ago and he even allowed Graham Potter to bring his own personal scout to the club in Kyle Macaulay who became part of Brighton's recruitment structure.

 
Even though I wanted him gone, I will still support the club and be cautiously hopeful here but we have to see something different here, otherwise it will be a repeat of last season.
 
A one year extension and Ruud placed in to take over him I don't see Erik lasting long.

The chances of him improving on what he has shown already are slim
 
Given we obviously couldn't find a suitable replacement, taking up the option of another year seems the best outcome. Prevents ETH becoming a lame duck coach, and gives him a sense of stability to try and work in, but isn't a massive commitment allowing us to get out from under it next summer if things go badly.

The veto, eh, it's not like he's suggesting the players we should bring in, but rather has a say on whether he thinks he can work with who the club identifies. He's not going to turn down good players out of spite and potentially ruin his reputation.

Whilst I was for giving him the heave ho, in the absence of a replacement I think this is the best outcome.
 
lsd said:
A one year extension and Ruud placed in to take over him I don't see Erik lasting long.

The chances of him improving on what he has shown already are slim
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The Van Nistelrooij takeover part is as unlikely in this thread as it was in the RvN thread.
 
lsd said:
A one year extension and Ruud placed in to take over him I don't see Erik lasting long.

The chances of him improving on what he has shown already are slim
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What do you think he's here for? You think he's some observer? He's an assassin! You go rogue, he's authorized to hunt you down and kill you.
 
The thing about De Ligt “failing” at Juve is a huge myth. He went there very young with Bonnucci and Chielini still there and got loads of game time under three different coaches playing in multiple systems.

By the end of his time there, he was seen as their best player, and Tuchel wanted him at Chelsea. (Tuchel stopped rating him in Bayern stint, but I'd put my house on that being because Tuchel is strange in that way. Case in point, he banished Chalobah after using him for a few months at Chelsea but then wanted to sign him for Bayern.)

Here’s James Horncastle on De Ligt while at Juventus…

“De Ligt was the most promising footballer in his position when Juventus bought him and he was their best defender last season, playing more minutes than any outfield player in the squad. His presence became more pronounced. His performances more authoritative. When Juventus defended well, it was De Ligt who stood out and at only 22, the best is yet to come. He is a foundation stone of the new Juventus.”

Revisionist stuff written last week is likely to be bullshit. De Ligt did fine at Juventus but went at a time when they were badly run. That doesn't mean De Ligt is necessarily the right signing for United, but if he's not, it won't be because “he flopped at Juventus.”
 
Insane to think that if he survives until the end of the season he will be the longest serving manager since Fergie.
 
Is he criticizing the old regime or Am I hallucinating ?

I wonder what Carrington looks like right now? and what changed since he was there ?

 
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