I will prefer giving kids minutes rather than giving it to bang average players who sure as hell won't solve our problems like Rabiot. Just a waste of everyone's time.
Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24
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I will prefer giving kids minutes rather than giving it to bang average players who sure as hell won't solve our problems like Rabiot. Just a waste of everyone's time.
Not in the slightest pal. ETH knew he was coming to a club with zero structure unlike he’s used to, so can’t complain about having to sign off on players. If he’s come to a club this size and thinks these two players are the answer then not only have we been taken for a ride in hiring him, but absolutely crazy to give him what he wants because these players offer nothing to what we have.
Who said he thinks these two players are the answer?
Oh, he must be buying them to make us worse then, no?
Bull…..SAF took a while to observe, try different things, make mistakes and then bring success. People will say oh no not this again bit it is true i was there. Nowadays, one competitive match and we not playing perfect football and everyone moans….get real you spoilt brats….
We need to back FdJ etc for a good 3 years at least
But! Thoughts are starting to creep in, huge WHAT IFS
The biggest what if - What if he gets all the players he wants for his 'system' and still ends up failing miserably because they aren't good enough still
please god, let's this work
But! Thoughts are starting to creep in, huge WHAT IFS
The biggest what if - What if he gets all the players he wants for his 'system' and still ends up failing miserably because they aren't good enough still
please god, let's this work
We need to back FdJ etc for a good 3 years at least
But! Thoughts are starting to creep in, huge WHAT IFS
The biggest what if - What if he gets all the players he wants for his 'system' and still ends up failing miserably because they aren't good enough still
please god, let's this work
What scares me is that when we finally started to clear out deadwood ETH wants to fill the club up with shit again..
This
Sancho had a near non-existent pre-season too as he was at the Euros. He was ill at the start of pre season and I don't think he featured at all until being a sub in our opening game.
And why exactly are Vitinha, Kamara, Renato Sanches and Paredes better options than Rabiot? This guy is being negative for the sake of it.
At the moment it seems like his options are sign the dross that every agent is trying dump on us or persist with a squad that is completely inadequate. He’s fecked either way.
His best bet if he wants to protect his reputation is to walk away now. It’s clear he’s not being backed.
How many managers do we go through before we sort out the shit show for a midfield and a fecking sloth for a defence... How many managers do we take the piss out of and call inept for having a shit squad and team to give them shit results?. Mourinho lost the plot and we laughed at him, Ole fell off his bike and GenGen pressing Godfather wasn't good enough yet all have had the same midfield..
We need to let this manager gut the belly of the team and reconstruct it to the level needed.. And he needs to feck McTominay and keep Fred as a #8 because he certainly ain't no #6 as has been exposed several times over the last couple of years..
We need to let this manager gut the belly of the team and reconstruct it to the level needed.. And he needs to feck McTominay and keep Fred as a #8 because he certainly ain't no #6 as has been exposed several times over the last couple of years..
The usual caf logic. it's not the manager who wanted the player it's the board, or, well done to the manager for getting the player, whatever suits the poster.
Can't speak for the first 2 names, but Paredes has shown his usefulness at PSG as a pure defensive midfielder while Renato Sanches has been compared to Edgar Davids in about everything. I'm also disappointed in signing Rabiot because of how heavy his baggage as a troublemaker is.
Should've gone for Poch, just kidding. After a few more losses which I thinkbare coming soon people naturally look for a pattern or in this case a common denominator. People are already questioning his judgment in various ways and he does need to learn quick but I hope we give him time he's a really good coach and the common denominator is the players.
But if he's a world class coach, shouldn't you trust his decisions in terms of formations, subsitutions, tactics and incoming players for a little more than one match? As mentioned, no manager will do the perfect decisions in the eyes of the majority most of the time. Is he the world class manager or are RedCafe posters the world class managers? Those who say they are fully supportive of him and say he's the world class manager, shouldn't be doubting him for basic stuff like formations, substitutions and tactics after a few games. He's the world class manager right? So, trust his decisions - even if they don't lead to the preferred result.
Wrong players? On who's authority? You believe in the manager right? Then why not believe in his player choices. Some players may have flopped in a different style of play, but apparently Ten Hag feels they are good enough for his style of play, or he simply feels like they are the best options available right now. If they weren't in his eyes, he would play other players. In the other post I already explained why Ten Hag might prefer to work with McFred rather then to sign other second rate midfielders. So won't repeat that again. Whichever it is, if you trust the manager, you trust what he's doing. If you are behind the manager, you understand the situation of the club and you understand the type of manager he is, then you have to understand that this manager is trying to change the entire setup and style of play of this team. That's not going to happen overnight and it will also go with ups and down. You know, you could beat Liverpool 3-0 two weeks from now and then draw or lose the next match again. You are not going to be consistent like title contenders in a few weeks or even months. There's way too much work to do.
This club chose Ten Hag as the new coach for a rebuild. It's known what kind of coach he is and how he wants to play. All these people who said they would back him and that they are totally behind him should know that Ten Hag is a manager that aims for a certain style of play. Unless people were delusional, being fully supportive to this manager also means accepting this is all going to take time and is not going to be a straight line up. This style of play is completely different to how this club has played in the past 6 years or so. You can't expect this coach to completely turn this around in a few weeks and you're going to lose to inferior opponents a few times down the line. That's called a process. You can't say you are fully behind the coach and then don't accept the process. It doesn't work like that.
One of the big reasons why this club is still where it is, cause this club has never accepted a full rebuild and has never accepted and respected that this takes time. Van Gaal started it, but all his work was undone when Mourinho was signed. Mourinho was hired for nothing but quick success and then Ole was simply hired to clean up all the mess Mourinho made. At no point was a total rebuild accepted. If you don't accept the position and problems you're in, you're never going to fix it. Ten Hag can fix the problems, but it'll take time and you might need to take a step or two back before you can move forward. You build a foundation before you build the roof. Rebuilding the foundation might lead to lower points than you've seen last season. If people can't handle that, then they're not behind the manager. Unlike a coach like Mourinho, Ten Hag can actually build from zero. A lot of managers can't do that. But building from zero means it's going to be a bumpy ride with a setback every now and then. In the end United and it's fans have never accepted the need to take the pain. United do however need to take all of the pain and then start from scratch and have the patience until the project is finished. Of course you can't wait for a 10 year project, but you have to realise this is not a 1 or 2 year project.
Critizism about line-ups and substitutions really isn't constuctive after one match or even a few matches. Critisizm about tactics is even worse, cause you hired a manager with a specific style of play who has proven he can make a team play like that. You can't really act like you know better than the coach on that one. I could understand critics like that from people that were always sceptical, cause those people never said they supported this approach. However from people who always said they belief in this coach and therefore the approach, it's criminal to critisize basic things like this after one match. Let me tell you one thing, you're going to lose a lot more matches this season. Ten Hag is a good coach and I'm pretty sure if you stick with him he'll turn things around eventually. Patience is however the key word. If you get lucky he'll do it sooner rather than later, but you should have patience in case it'll be a bit later. Expecting anyone to turn this around soon is nothing else but being delusional. You can sack Ten Hag in 8 months and then be in the same position 5 years from now after you had another 2 instant success coaches like Conte or Mourinho. You won't be better off.
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EtH's apparently! The theme of him insisting on those he's previously worked with seems to have a lot of credence, so the mind really boggles at this one.
Hopefully it's a distraction tactic to take attention away from the nightmare start and there's no truth in it. Same goes for Rabiot. That's baseless optimism though ain't it?
Because you're not asking Ten Hag to just flip burgers. You didn't hire an instant success coach. You hired a coach with a different style of play, a different game plan and therefore a specific style of play that's miles off anything this club has done in the past 6 years. You've basicly hired someone to change McDonalds into KFC. That's why you shouldn't critisize the manager after one or two games. If you wanted to stay MacDonalds but just be a better McDonalds, you should have re-hired Mourinho or another manager that plays like everyone else and give that person a 500m transfer budget.
Your last sentences just show a lot of ignorance. Guess what, if you'd be dominating your opponents every week and creating much more chances than them, you're easily going to end top 4 unless you get incredibly unlucky. Dominating the opposition is difficult and especially everyone that keeps going on about how insanely strong the PL is should realise that. You don't just dominate strong opponents right? Especially if you come from a situation where you've been playing the counterattack for more than 5 years.
A normal process is that you will have dominant spells in the game and you will have spells where you can't dominate the opposition because the players don't read every situation well, don't have the right focus for 90 minutes and don't have the right routines to fall back on. This is exactly what takes time. Since this is a team in a process of improving you're going to be vulnerable especially in the spells that you are not able to dominate the opposition. Even when you're dominating you're probably going to face some counterattacks that end up in the back of the net every now and then. Again because the PL opposition is extraordinary and as well because in the beginning there will be more mistakes made in preventing the counterattacking opportunies.
This is the process you've signed up for. You're going to have to get through this. It will be a bumpy ride. You can dominate Liverpool for 75 minutes one day and then be dominated by Newcastle for the majority of the match a week later. It's not going to be a straight upward line and expecting anything else is just not understand the position you're in or the type of manager you've hired.
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I prefer Burger King.
Ten Hag's job isn't to be our transfer target guru. It's this situation because our scouting system was garbage and needs a revamp or is in process of a revamp. Because of this, it makes more sense for picking familiar targets and players. When the recruitment team and ten hag get more aligned, they can go back to normal with ten hag having approval/veto rights but not driving all the player choices. Doesn't make sense to judge him off the exact players too much because he won't be doing this (or shouldn't be) longer than this window.
Ten Hag should probably just come out and say up front that Utd will wind up further down the table this year than last. That way the fans won't be surprised. Plus incoming players won't feel betrayed when they find out that was the plan all along.
Assuming that's his plan.
Nice Post. The man has barely started work here.
I can explain possible thinking behind Arnautovic. For one, to me it would only make sense if Ronaldo leaves. Otherwise it's a waste of space indeed.
However if Ronaldo leaves, you clearly need another option. However, elite strikers are for one rare in this moment in time and secondly they are not signing for United at this moment in time. Even elite talents are difficult to get for United at this moment as they will draw interest from all kinds of clubs and could easily have better options in their eyes. Hence, United can basicly only get second rate players, unless there's something else going on (like in FdJ's case).
With elite stirkers being impossible to get for United, it means only 2nd rate strikers are available. Sure, there may be better options available than Arnautovic, but they will still be 2nd rate and they may have a much bigger price tag. Ten Hag is thiking long term. Unlike what some fans think, United doesn't have an unlimited budget. So ETH might feel like, it's better to get a cheap option with specific qualities, rather than someone who may be slightly higher rated but 3 times as expensive becasue in the end that guy is still only a second rate player.
The days that United would buy Harry Kane off Spurs are long gone and the chance that a player like Lautaro Martinez would sign for United at this point is also not very high (and even that would be a gamble, just more of a Hollywood signing). Hence what's left is signing second rate players for 30/40m or even more or signing someone like Arnautovic on the cheap. If Ronaldo leaves you have Martial and then Arnautovic would be the other option with totally different qualities. Arnautovic would give Ten Hag different tactical options compared to Martial. Arnautovic is tall and strong striker with a good technique. Hence he can be a good targetman for Ten Hag's passing game as well as be a threat from crosses. Next to Martial being fast and a good dribbler, this would bring Ten Hag several tactical options. Obviously if Ronaldo's staying, the qualities that Arnautovic brings aren't really needed. If Ronaldo goes however, then these qualities would be an addition to the squad and may simply be the best available in terms of price/quality. Sure I completely understand the feeling why this doesn't look like a United level transfertarget. However, I will repeat what I said earlier, the days that you'd be signing Harry Kane as the logical replacement for someone like Ronaldo are long gone. Of course one or two top 4 finishes and you could be back to those days. Not now however. This is reality.
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I'm with you mate. Largely agree with all your posts.
It's not even about unconditional support, it's about understanding what EtH's job is.
He's here to take a squad designed for sitting deep and countering, assembled by Mou and Ole, and turn it into a squad capable of playing on the front foot, dominating games against the best opposition. That's a long, slow process, and it'll take time for him to turn the team around, breaking habits and bringing in more suitable players.
We knew when picking him that we'd have to deal with some rubbish along the way, as we're trying to completely revolutionise our approach. The main positive is that he has a way of playing and won't abandon that even if the players aren't ready for it. That's how we'll improve, but by the nature of the approach we'll take a few beatings along the way.
He's here to take a squad designed for sitting deep and countering, assembled by Mou and Ole, and turn it into a squad capable of playing on the front foot, dominating games against the best opposition. That's a long, slow process, and it'll take time for him to turn the team around, breaking habits and bringing in more suitable players.
We knew when picking him that we'd have to deal with some rubbish along the way, as we're trying to completely revolutionise our approach. The main positive is that he has a way of playing and won't abandon that even if the players aren't ready for it. That's how we'll improve, but by the nature of the approach we'll take a few beatings along the way.
Unfortunately, there are a lot of people here who expect Ten Hag to perform miracles by instantly turning a battered and inadequate squad into Cruyff's dream team.
Considering the fact that Ten Hag's system takes time to develop and book results - as proven by his previous stints at Utrecht and Ajax - everyone should just cool down and give him the space and time to get things done. Trusting him is the key to success.
We can criticise him based on team selection as we have seen certain players for years. He has chosen to reanalyse them but its not a surprise if he has chosen to not take the advice of people like ragnick and stick with McFred for example that he would get criticised. They are preventable mistakes. You can back someone and also criticise them. It's stupid to put blind faith in literally anything in this world. Have belief but also use your brain.
If ETH decides to bring in a player like arnautovic a known racist I'm allowed to criticise him and its not a surprise if I lose faith in him a bit because of that decision.
It's mental but unfortunately not surprising. Many of us called this.It is so fecking mental
You're totally going past what I said. This is not FM where you can press the sell option for McFred and can get in almost everyone you like without any problems. McFred is simply the best option you have available right now. You can transferlist McFred right now, but when you do that in FM you will still probably receive 50/60m for the pair of them. In the real world no one will buy them. In the real world you don't have funds to just replace either of them. In your view about anyone is better than the pair of them, but as I explained in the end of the day you're not able to get elite players (unless you get lucky with FdJ) and if you have to bring in second rate players that are also not used to playing Ten Hag ball, there's no guarantee at all that you'll be much better off than you're currently with McFred.
Second rate players for 30/40M may not be a big upgrade over McFred, if an upgrade at all. This is probably what Ten Hag's thinking, hence why he said I want the right player or no player. In his view it's probably better to save 30/40m and add that to the budget for January or next summer, rather than spend 30/40m on a second rate player right now and not having any guarantee at all that it'll be a relevant improvement. Hence why he's going after players that he knows himself, as he at least knows that they have qualities to play in his philosophy. Arnautovic is not the best striker available, but you won't sign Harry Kane or Lautaro Martinez. Any striker that you can possibly sign will be a second rate striker and whereas there may be better options available than Arnautovic, if they're going to be three times as expensive it may be a smarter move to settle for Arnautovic considering the fact that he has certain qualities that are useful to Ten Hag and after Ronaldo leaves will be a good addtion to the qualities available at the moment.
That's all fine but I can then criticise the decisions he makes. I see you decided to ignore my point about Arnautovic. I will ask. Am I allowed to support ETH whilst also believe he would be making a huge mistake bringing in Arnautovic knowing his questionable moral issues? Can I criticise ETH if he does that?
He is a player no manager of United should be looking at purely based on a moral level.
This transfer window is evidence why a modern club don't just hand managers full control and scrap the recruitment team at the drop of a hat, its expensive and you spend far longer than necessary on players that may not even come (like Moyes with Fabregas Bale etc).
A DoF and the recruitment team are meant to draw up a list of players based on ablity, context and contract situation, particularly cheaper players, that the "manager" (Head coach) doesn't even need to be informed on its assumed the DoF and their team has enough football knowledge to understand what players would go with what style of football, particularly the manager they have just hired.
In other words what the feck has Murtough been doing,
A DoF and the recruitment team are meant to draw up a list of players based on ablity, context and contract situation, particularly cheaper players, that the "manager" (Head coach) doesn't even need to be informed on its assumed the DoF and their team has enough football knowledge to understand what players would go with what style of football, particularly the manager they have just hired.
In other words what the feck has Murtough been doing,
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You can critisize all you want, but it's not quite showing support to the coach. If moral issues were anything to go bye there are few players you can sign. If you only want perfect posterboys you can be quite sure United will never be back to winning, that's for sure. However, of course you can not like Arnautovic for whatever he's (alledgly) done in his carreer. He got a ban for whatever happened in the Euro's and for me that's that. But if you want to give someone the death penalty for walking through a red light be my guest. Just not my cup of tea.
Sack ETH sell FDJ
Sign Potter he’ll will win his first match after he signs Adam Lallana and brings Danny back home.
If Potter not available we can give Benny McCarthy the interim manager job until the end of the season, heck we might get a new manager bounce after this disastrous start to the season.
Sign Potter he’ll will win his first match after he signs Adam Lallana and brings Danny back home.
If Potter not available we can give Benny McCarthy the interim manager job until the end of the season, heck we might get a new manager bounce after this disastrous start to the season.
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Makes me wonder if ETH only have a list of targets back in his Ajax days, who are only good enough for Dutch league, but not the PL.
All I’m going to say is that ETH’s two main signings were the ones who played the best this week
Nothing different -- the usual suspects will whinge and probably call for his head. Apparently, these people have never dealt with bumps in the road before or started or done anything new in their lives before. If they did they will realise that life isn't linear. It required a bit of mental fortitude to fight through these bumps.
And Sunday's loss shouldn't even really be called a bump. It's part of the learning curve for ETH at this stage of his career.
Its not black and white either, nobody should be calling for his head but he is also only one man and this "process" is doomed to fail, not a manager on this planet would win against an incompetent structure, a greedy ownership and an ill equipped squad.
Nothing highlights this more than wasting 12 weeks chasing one transfer that had no chance of succeeding espousing only the "right players" yet panicking after one loss. Meaning these turds THOUGHT THIS SQUAD WAS GOOD ENOUGH.
It's a good sign if he's quickly realised how shite Mctominay and Fred are, hence the desperation to get any actual midfielders in. Of course it's ridiculous that we've ended up in this panic buying mode again, but that's more on the clueless board. If ETH has quickly seen the light after one game then that's good news.
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