I think (1) and (2) are basically the same. I think we can keep as simple as:
1) Continue with EtH next season.
2) Sack him in the summer.
Maybe a Not_sure/Eboue option too, but that is essentially abstaining.
Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24
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1) Continue with EtH next season.
2) Sack him in the summer.
Maybe a Not_sure/Eboue option too, but that is essentially abstaining.
I'd take Jose back over keeping ETH for another season.
There's that straw man again
Being a bit more serious than in my previous reply, if we manage to do some incremental improvement (for example losing 2-0 from midtable teams instead of 3-0 or 4-0), I can see the excuses of similar form to 'there was not much time for the structure to lay the strong foundation for EtH to succeed, Barrada started only on July, Ashford probably even later so they couldn't prepare the season well and thus EtH was let down again'. And if the structure in place signs some relatively unknown players instead of De Jong and whoever remains in Eredivisie that we didn't sign yet, I can see the excuse of 'the club let EtH down by not signing the players he wanted'.
At this stage, the arguments of posters who are EtH in are as strong as if you prompt ChatGPT with 'generate reasons why EtH must not be sacked'.
I have no doubt in my mind that if we kept him and finished 7th next season, the 'ETH in' posters would be calling it an improvement from this season's (presumptive) 8th place finish and thus evidence that we're going in the right direction and he should be given more time.
From a purely defensive standpoint it can make sense, in transition it's unlikely that the opposition finds itself with more than 6 players attacking your defense at the same time and in shape, so it's totally possible to contain the vast majority of attacks with 6 players, in theory in the early phase you should have a flat back 4 and both of your DMs covering the three central gaps between your defenders. That's the kind of situation that you may see in the 90s-early 2000s with for example Juventus when they used a double pivot or Atletico Madrid with Tiago and Gabi. But there is an even more obvious option which is a 4312 and in that case the three midfielders have their gaps predetermined unlike a midfield two where they are supposed to slide and a 4312 makes sense when you don't actually have much talent wide.
Now the issue is that none of that work due to the shape of our attacking setup, we routinely play in a sort of 2125 with the fullbacks totally engaged offensively and at least one of the CM acting like an attacking midfielder. And to be blunt, if you lose the ball you are fecked because there is no way for the three deepest players to contain anything efficiently and the fullbacks and midfielders can't run 50m in 3 seconds.
And of course the “no obvious replacement” argument will only become stronger as the only new managers on the market will be those who were sacked mid-season, and they all will be “failed at club X do not want”
Plus even if a great manager suddenly becomes available it will be “but see, we are improving, cannot throw it all away…Fergie, Arteta…”
Are you the guy that called me a ten hag sympathiser because I want given any proof that Mason mount was solely a ten hag singing?
Strawman is right, your arguments depend on it
The official number of votes "yes" got to keep ten Hag for the final has to be a sign
Surely if you thought that way you’d select option 2 (as per my current suggestion)
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Insult? Where have I insulted anyone?You all come in here with your smug drive-by insults and then wonder why posters refer to you as "cultists"
I also clearly don’t drive by and leave the thread. I’ve been engaging or trying to all day yesterday but some posters don’t respond when I push them for responses or they just insult and I then have to either ignore the insult and the discussion ends or try to engage with someone who clearly isn’t interested so what’s the point?
Also where are you when I’m being called all sorts of names by posters?
I’m honestly not sure what’s the best course of action and happy enough to let INEOs decide. That’s not endorsing another season.
Absolutely. If Pep and Klopp are not available (and we wouldn't want them anyway cause they managed City/Pool), there is no obvious manager that we can get. Heck, even if Ancelotti becomes available after finding Real Madrid too easy to win his 5th UCL, I can see the 'he is too old to be a long-term option'.
Basically there are impossible standards for any new manager we can hire, and no standards at all for the current manager.
That’s a kop out. Id prefer to see people say yes or no rather than fence sitting. Uncertainly does not help
Me being sarcastic is virtually the same as ETH fanbase being serious, so not difficult.
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Then don't vote. Very simple.
I am fairly certain the same posters that come up with excuses this year will just do exactly the same next year. We got to a point where the only people who want to keep him are the ones who have already invested too much in him to back down, and next year they will have even more of their personal stock put into him.
Also given how much weight is placed in single points, where an extra point over the course of season is ‘massively better’ and ‘significantly improved’ then it won’t be difficult to actually believe we had a good season while still finishing 8th with sub-60 points.
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I like the new poll. I can see it being from 50-50 if we defeat Arsenal to 90-10 for sack if we get humiliated today.
Told ya, it's bloody groundhog day.
With the gap inevitably shrinking as time passes between games
There’s only 3 days between this game and Newcastle at home, though we may be able to sneak a draw in that game which would be the biggest achievement by any manager this year.With the gap inevitably shrinking as time passes between games
Coincidence that Antony speaks to the press (probably) and gets dropped today?
It’s not a cop out, it’s simply my position. It’s your poll, I was just making a suggestion. I just wont vote as my position won’t be represented.
I genuinely think they study your posts to improve their own.
He's so painfully dumb. Couldnt judge Ole because he was a mate. Cant judge ETH because he's had a sit down with him and got charmed.
But if it was Salford, he'd have sacked him a year ago.
But if it was Salford, he'd have sacked him a year ago.
He must be one of the votes to keep him in the poll.
I'm at the point of no confidence in the guy and the only way he could turn my opinion around now is to acknowledge he totally fecked up the season and that he will actually try and manage the team with conventional football from this point forward.
His system is rubbish and has followed through on exactly what many of us said it would be from when it was initialised in preseason, in fact, it's even worse than the horror show that was envisaged. The whole thing would have to be scrapped for him to warrant even another minute in the hotseat (he should have been sacked 6 times over this season alone).
His comments as he's come out trying to save his job have been shockingly poor and further entrench him in a realm that suggests the job is beyond his capabilities. Greater managers than him come out, acknowledge their failings and rectify them, much, much greater managers, and if he can't even do the bare bones of that, there's nothing to put any faith in him with whatsoever.
Referring to his time at Ajax 6yrs ago is ancient history in football. Again, greater managers than him have transformed themselves multiple times in that period until now, and it needs to be stopped used as a frame of reference.
As of right now, I don't trust him with anything to do with bettering the club or these players. This coming from someone who once believed this would be the guy to modernise us and have us playing exceptional football - I've never been more wrong about anything football related in my life.
His system is rubbish and has followed through on exactly what many of us said it would be from when it was initialised in preseason, in fact, it's even worse than the horror show that was envisaged. The whole thing would have to be scrapped for him to warrant even another minute in the hotseat (he should have been sacked 6 times over this season alone).
His comments as he's come out trying to save his job have been shockingly poor and further entrench him in a realm that suggests the job is beyond his capabilities. Greater managers than him come out, acknowledge their failings and rectify them, much, much greater managers, and if he can't even do the bare bones of that, there's nothing to put any faith in him with whatsoever.
Referring to his time at Ajax 6yrs ago is ancient history in football. Again, greater managers than him have transformed themselves multiple times in that period until now, and it needs to be stopped used as a frame of reference.
As of right now, I don't trust him with anything to do with bettering the club or these players. This coming from someone who once believed this would be the guy to modernise us and have us playing exceptional football - I've never been more wrong about anything football related in my life.
It's not, but it's still better than your genuine posts. Which is why I asked if you can keep it up irrespective of who's the manager next season.
Pretty much yes. His logic is also massively flawed. A shit manager doesnt turn into Fergie if you give him time and a structure. ETH is not the guy to be patient with, none of our managers have proven to be worthy of getting a season or two more.
If ETH managed to get us into top 4 or maybe missed it narrowly and we could see what he tries to achieve, fair enough. But he is an absolute disaster. We have to sack him.
And he knows he's not the guy to be patient with, because he's spent all season tearing his hair out trying to analyse the slop we produce on the pitch.
But his delusions about United and managers is so strong it overrides that.
This is such a poor argument. “We’ve done a poor job identifying the right managers, so we should just give up trying to find the right one”.
Signing new players also hasn’t worked. Does that mean we should stop signing players? Of course not.
Neither manager nor players are good enough. That’s painfully obvious for anyone to see.
There are lots of reasonable arguments for him to be sacked, questions over training methods, game plan blah blah blah
but Jesus Christ- look at that bench again .Unless it's a 7-0 massacre then today shouldn't really mean much. My god that's a rotten team.
but Jesus Christ- look at that bench again
.Unless it's a 7-0 massacre then today shouldn't really mean much. My god that's a rotten team.I would have said his training methods need to be analysed looking at the bench, but we will hopefully sack him and rehaul the medical team.
I would understand the argument if he was getting even average performances out of what he has (which is an average squad that he's had a major hand in building). But he hasn't, we've been diabolical.
Why should he deserve a chance that the previous better performing managers didn't get.
There are lots of reasonable arguments for him to be sacked, questions over training methods, game plan blah blah blah
but Jesus Christ- look at that bench again
He is responsible for the training and the team. If he buys duds and crocks, plus lets train like an idiot, he is to blame to a heavy degree. Most of the blame goes to him. It is not bad luck at this point and surely not a coincidence
There are lots of reasonable arguments for him to be sacked, questions over training methods, game plan blah blah blah
but Jesus Christ- look at that bench again
But weird using that excuse for the whole of the season isn't it. Shouldn't be questions asked as to the intensity of the training regime?
There are lots of reasonable arguments for him to be sacked, questions over training methods, game plan blah blah blah
but Jesus Christ- look at that bench again
It does not mean anything, and my opinion will not change irrespective of the result.
I want Arsenal to win today as I don't want City to win the league again. My opinion about him is not based on a single game.
Well it is speculation as to what's causing the injuries, and there has been some heavily implied criticism of the medical department from both EtH and Casemiro, who allegedly had to get a second opinion on his hamstring problem after being dissatisfied with the club's evaluation of it. There's also been criticism of the intensity of the training, so it could be a bit of both.
Rotten line up though regardless. Need a miracle to win this today.
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