Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24

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stevoc said:
Yes they are.
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I mean they're not. They even caveat it's the play "for now". There was nothing clickbait about it.
stevoc said:
We've done this before mate, that's your own interpretation of events because ironically it suits your narrative. I've asked you for an article or quotes from Ten Hag that prove your interpretation and they weren't forthcoming. Where as even if we ignore the reality that probably 80-90% of our signings since 2022 have a link to Ten Hag in some way. We have direct quotes from him and numerous articles that confirm he wanted control over identifying targets and probably a veto on alternatives. I mean look at the players we've signed, it's obvious.
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We've done this before? Are you referring to the time I suggested you research about the veto system and you didn't bother doing so?

Ten Hag has a veto. DoF had a veto. Ten hag wanted a say in strategy. If you agree with this much (you should given its very widely reported), then you should be able to understand how Ten hag did not have sole control, and he never said that it was only him controlling it.

He had an element of control with that system, yes. I think where you've fallen over is insinuating an element of control equals complete and unanimous control.

Us landing on players who were affiliated with him points to the structural failing (non existent DoF and scouting pedigree being communicated on the shortlist).
 
golden_blunder said:
You mean like a mid-season tour of France?
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Bienvenue à Nice.
stevoc said:
Due in no small part to the fact we keep hiring average or past it managers. If the best we can hope for under a manager is 4th and a Cup final then they aren't the right man for the job. With a proper structure in place building a squad and a style of play isn't even 100% dependent on a single manager anymore. The club can plug different coaches in and out but the process continues, that in itself is less of a reason to keep any manager who is underperforming.
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Maybe. Again we’ll see.

I just think you’re deluded in your expectations this early on into a rebuild. I’m not saying long term that should be our aspiration but even the next 2 years back to back CL qualification would be great progress.
 
VP89 said:
Can you explain what is specifically distorted?
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It was just throw away comment in an article which was more about changes at the top and how Ineos are taking control of more than football operations and how they are focused on reducing costs .

It's distorted in a sense that it's quite economical with the truth the same article also states Ten Hag's position is vulnerable to change due to appalling campaign and while Ineos maintain they are planning with Ten Hag in mind for next season Yet as his previous superiors have discovered, INEOS will not hesitate if it sees sufficient evidence that change is needed.
 
Sarni said:
Many good managers joined mid-season, including Klopp and Emery within our league. It doesn’t matter though because if we keep ETH he’s going to get full season.

I’m also sure there will be injuries next season that will excuse him for any below par performances too. Not many teams are able to ever field their full best XI with fully healthy bench but it seems it is prerequisite for ETH to have the team perform at a top 4 contention level.
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I mean, I get the frustration but there is a clear correlation between teams most hit by injury and underperformance: https://www.givemesport.com/every-premier-league-team-ranked-injuries-suffered/

Newcastle, Chelsea and United have been hit the worst among the big teams, next up are Liverpool and Tottenham. Villa, Arsenal and City nowhere to be found in that list.

Injuries can significantly impact a team's performance in the Premier League. The link between injuries and underperformance is evident and teams with higher injury counts often struggle to maintain consistency and momentum throughout the season.

It also has a ripple effect as it not only affects the starting lineup but also diminishes the team's ability to make effective substitutions and tactical changes during matches.

So while Ten Hag is certainly not faultless for how the season has unfolded the injuries shouldn’t be ridiculed, downplayed or dismissed.
 
pocco said:
He'll be gone come summer. Everybody else can see through the excuses, bar a small section of our fans, and I'm sure INEOS will too.
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I would agree but I think it's interesting they are specifically putting little bits out there about him staying. They don't have to say anything but are choosing to do that.
 
gajender said:
It was just throw away comment in an article which was more about changes at the top and how Ineos are taking control of more than football operations and how they are focused on reducing costs .

It's distorted in a sense that it's quite economical with the truth the same article also states Ten Hag's position is vulnerable and while Ineos maintain they are planning with Ten Hag in mind for next season Yet as his previous superiors have discovered, INEOS will not hesitate if it sees sufficient evidence that change is needed.
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I think it was one of a series of tweets. The aggregator has probably referenced other bits too but in any case I'm also referring to the article itself in not being clickbait in context. The article actually suggests more sympathy from owners to ten hag than people would want to see.

It's a bit funny how people decide things are clickbait if they don't like what they hear. For example there was a Melissa Reddy video on ten hag, where she says they want him to succeed and he's been effectively handicapped, but he says the wrong things and comes across like he's talking himself out of a job.

Only the second sentence becomes the headline title, and everyone goes wild over it. Probably because that's what they want to hear.
 
pocco said:
Reminds me of the time you wouldn't have it that Reuters put out a load of nonsense about the Jassim bid.
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Pointless bringing that up, you nor I have no way to prove or disprove what was said. At the time it may have been true. There was obviously something odd about the Qatar bid/involvement.
 
VP89 said:
I think it was one of a series of tweets. The aggregator has probably referenced other bits too but in any case I'm also referring to the article itself in not being clickbait in context. The article actually suggests more sympathy from owners to ten hag than people would want to see.

It's a bit funny how people decide things are clickbait if they don't like what they hear. For example there was a Melissa Reddy video on ten hag, where she says they want him to succeed and he's been effectively handicapped, but he says the wrong things and comes across like he's talking himself out of a job.

Only the second sentence becomes the headline title, and everyone goes wild over it. Probably because that's what they want to hear.
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Its @Berbaclass who either forgot to add other tweet or did that deliberately because I can see aggregator did have other tweet stating INEOS will not hesitate if they see sufficient evidence that a change of manager is needed.
 
gajender said:
Its @Berbaclass who either forgot to add other tweet or did that deliberately because I can see aggregator did have other tweet stating INEOS will not hesitate if they see sufficient evidence that a change of manager is needed.
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There was nothing deliberate about it mate, I saw the tweet and posted it. You're overthinking.

I am of the view that he probably should go
 
Berbaclass said:
There was nothing deliberate about it mate, I saw the tweet and posted it. You're overthinking.

I am of the view that he probably should go
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So you didn't see another tweet from same aggregator just above the one you posted here which was from same article that they wouldn't hesitate to change the manager .
 
He should absolutely manage the cup final what kind of question is that!
 
Jesus what's gone on with the poll percentage? Last time I was in this thread a couple of days ago it was 70% no!
 
I can’t stomach another season of him. I wasn’t his biggest fan last year and that season was heavenly compared to this one.

If he does stay though surely his contract will be extended, would he go into next season with just that year left? This is my biggest worry…along with his fave Antony staying.
 
So by Ineos’ logic none of our post SAF managers should have been sacked. None of them had the structure behind them.
 
sepulturite said:
Jesus what's gone on with the poll percentage? Last time I was in this thread a couple of days ago it was 70% no!
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The result
James35 said:
I can’t stomach another season of him. I wasn’t his biggest fan last year and that season was heavenly compared to this one.

If he does stay though surely his contract will be extended, would he go into next season with just that year left? This is my biggest worry…along with his fave Antony staying.
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Must be the luckiest manager out there, should got sacked long time ago.
 
Insanity said:
This thread has its own bust/boom/bust cycle...but on a weekly basis.

There is a feeling of haplessness after every game & shit performance, the Haggites disappear for a while or keep a low profile for a day or two, by Wednesday or Thursday they come back with the old vigor and excuses - injuries, squad is not his, that famous CL semi-final run, no one else is there, structure, blah, blah, blah - the same old hits, then the reverence reaches peak devotion till the game begins, then comes the "I am not as supportive as I was before this shit performance", disappear again, rinse and repeat.
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Yes you can see it in the polls. After a terrible performance the percent drops then rises as a function of time. Then another bad performance and the cycle repeats.
 
Berbaclass said:
He ain’t going anywhere

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Do you agree with it? Only recently you were trying to argue that the idea that Wilcox has asked him to play possession football and that he will be assessed over the remainder of the season, was the best course of action. Since then we've scraped by against SU where we were trailing twice, and drawn against Burnley who out possessed us and looked largely the better organised/coached side. So do you now believe that actually wasn't the best course of action, as you claimed at the time?

If any of this is true then it's got shades of our previous moves, such as appointing Rangnick with a long view to do what he's good at and oversee changes at the club, but then fecking it all off at the drop of a hat. Or giving Ole a contract based on a few games, after having said that we will carry out a thorough process for hiring the next manager, before again fecking it all off.
 
Insanity said:
This thread has its own bust/boom/bust cycle...but on a weekly basis.

There is a feeling of haplessness after every game & shit performance, the Haggites disappear for a while or keep a low profile for a day or two, by Wednesday or Thursday they come back with the old vigor and excuses - injuries, squad is not his, that famous CL semi-final run, no one else is there, structure, blah, blah, blah - the same old hits, then the reverence reaches peak devotion till the game begins, then comes the "I am not as supportive as I was before this shit performance", disappear again, rinse and repeat.
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This is completely accurate.
 
Sometimes I wonder how some fans fail to see through the obvious ineptitude of ten Hag. He might have been successful at Ajax, but the Eredivisie is nowhere near EPL standards. Remember Spurs who beat Ajax in the UCL semifinal was practically brushed aside by Liverpool in a one-sided final.
Giving ten Hag another season is akin to wasting another year, we need to get rid now. Infact I support an interim coach facing Guardiola in the FA cup final (to give us a winning chance.) Ten Hag has gotten everything wrong at Manchester United, everything. From tactics to game management, from Ronaldo to Garnacho.
Ten Hag lacks good tactical nous, and this is only eclipsed by his unbelievably poor man management skills. It's time to let go, anybody would do at this moment. I suggest Carrick comes in on the interim, he wouldn't do a worse job than ten Hag.
 
Garethw said:
So by Ineos’ logic none of our post SAF managers should have been sacked. None of them had the structure behind them.
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To be fair, they're not going to publicly shit on the managers by saying they weren't good enough(which was the case too).
 
pocco said:
Do you agree with it? Only recently you were trying to argue that the idea that Wilcox has asked him to play possession football and that he will be assessed over the remainder of the season, was the best course of action. Since then we've scraped by against SU where we were trailing twice, and drawn against Burnley who out possessed us and looked largely the better organised/coached side. So do you now believe that actually wasn't the best course of action, as you claimed at the time?

If any of this is true then it's got shades of our previous moves, such as appointing Rangnick with a long view to do what he's good at and oversee changes at the club, but then fecking it all off at the drop of a hat. Or giving Ole a contract based on a few games, after having said that we will carry out a thorough process for hiring the next manager, before again fecking it all off.
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I agree if there are no viable alternatives to hang fire for now yes.
 
jadajos said:
I mean, I get the frustration but there is a clear correlation between teams most hit by injury and underperformance: https://www.givemesport.com/every-premier-league-team-ranked-injuries-suffered/

Newcastle, Chelsea and United have been hit the worst among the big teams, next up are Liverpool and Tottenham. Villa, Arsenal and City nowhere to be found in that list.

Injuries can significantly impact a team's performance in the Premier League. The link between injuries and underperformance is evident and teams with higher injury counts often struggle to maintain consistency and momentum throughout the season.

It also has a ripple effect as it not only affects the starting lineup but also diminishes the team's ability to make effective substitutions and tactical changes during matches.

So while Ten Hag is certainly not faultless for how the season has unfolded the injuries shouldn’t be ridiculed, downplayed or dismissed.
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Injuries have an affect. Your entire season shouldn't collapse due to one or two key players missing i.e. Shaw and Lisandro.

Newcastle don't have a very strong squad. There are still multiple players there from the Rafa/Bruce eras. Ones who wouldn't have been deemed good enough for a team contending for CL football until Howe improved them. They were in relegations battles for years. Their attack still functions this season, unlike United who have had pretty much the entire attack available all season.

It's not been a good season for Newcastle, but they've had a lot of highs also:

Newcastle 5-1Aston Villa
Sheffield Utd 0-8 Newcastle
Newcastle 4-1 Chelsea
Newcastle 1-0 Man utd
Newcastle 1-0 Arsenal
Aston Villa 1-3 Newcastle
Newcastle 4-0 Spurs

Newcastle 1-0 Man City
Man Utd 0-3 Newcastle
Sunderland 0-3 Newcastle

Milan 0-0 Newcastle
Newcastle 4-1 PSG
PSG 1-1 Newcastle

Howe deserves credit for improving Schär, Longstaff, Joelinton, Murphy and Almirón. Both Gordon and Isak are performing at a very high level under him also. He's getting the best out of his attackers.

It's a similar tale at Brighton. They have one of the youngest squads in the league. De Zerbri has given the most minutes to teenagers out of every PL manager. They were in Europe for the 1st time in their history. They navigated the group stage very well. They topped their group. Marseille finished 2nd and are now in the semi-finals of The Europa League. Brighton don't have amazing squad depth. They sold two of their best midfielders last summer. The drop-off from Caicedo and Mac Allister was big. It's been a struggle for Brighton since March, but there have still been some highs this season.

Brighton 3-1 Newcastle
Man Utd 1-3 Brighton
Brighton 4-2 Spurs
Brighton 4-1 Palace
Brighton 3-1 Bournemouth
Brighton 2-2 Liverpool
Sheffield Utd 0-5 Brighton

Marseille 2-2 Brighton
Brighton 2-0 Ajax
Ajax 2-0 Brighton
Brighton 1-0 Marseille
Brighton 1-0 Roma

Both Newcastle and Brighton don't have the squad depth or experience that United possess. I won't even get into Chelsea. Injuries or not, they've been a mess for 2 seasons in a row under Boehly's watch. We've had a horrendous season with very few highs.

Man Utd 2-1 Chelsea
Liverpool 0-0 Man Utd
Man Utd 3-2 Aston Villa
Aston Villa 1-2 Man Utd

Man Utd 4-3 Liverpool
 
Garethw said:
So by Ineos’ logic none of our post SAF managers should have been sacked. None of them had the structure behind them.
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Good point.
For me, any "Manchester United fan" who roots for ten Hag does not love our club. It's heartbreaking. How can a fan who watched us under SAF still keep up with this shite ten Hag is dishing us? How can I cope with this next season? I cannot.
The fact INEOS has not issued a statement confirming that ten Hag is leaving at the end of the season is baffling. SJR is a corporate guru, so I believe he won't keep up with ten Hag's excuses. I just wish he can get rid of ten Hag before the FA cup final because with him, we stand zero chance against city.
 
hobbers said:
One from a universe where there's a chance we win an FA cup.
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We could have beaten City in last years final if not for a few errors. Also he got the team to the final
 
Insanity said:
This thread has its own bust/boom/bust cycle...but on a weekly basis.

There is a feeling of haplessness after every game & shit performance, the Haggites disappear for a while or keep a low profile for a day or two, by Wednesday or Thursday they come back with the old vigor and excuses - injuries, squad is not his, that famous CL semi-final run, no one else is there, structure, blah, blah, blah - the same old hits, then the reverence reaches peak devotion till the game begins, then comes the "I am not as supportive as I was before this shit performance", disappear again, rinse and repeat.
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There's only really about half a dozen people who still back him or at least want him to prove everyone wrong.

But you're right. :lol: Radio silence for a day or two... and then they dust themselves down and go again.

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