Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24

[hobbers]

Sir Alex Ferguson, the greatest manager in the history of the game and Pep Guardiola the best manager currently have never and will never make a poor player good. They get a replacement player. Ten Hag is no different.

If you are waiting for a manager who makes champions out of our current squad we’re in for a scouse style 30 year barren period.

Neither of them needed to make 20 signings to avoid losing 20 times in a season either.

Nobody is ever making a league champion out of Bruno and Rashford but Ten Hag is wedded to them.

We have plenty of mediocre players who are being made to look worse than they are, because they're forced to play in an idiotic system that nackers them and exploits their weaknesses at the same time.

 

[Plant0x84]

do we know that Casemiro was an EtH signing?

He absolutely wasn’t a ETH signing. Erik wanted FDJ and Casemiro was the alternative the club came up with when they couldn’t get the player out of Barca.
I imagine ten hag agreed to the Casemiro deal on the grounds of it being better than nothing (which would have meant another season of McFred)

 

[Valencia Shin Crosses]

Alex Telles runs it close. The wonder goal he scored saves him but overall he was atrocious.

Yeah he was terrible, but at least he had a translatable skill you could point to (nice left peg).

Weghorst is the most unthreatening attacker I’ve ever watched at a top league. Giant, but awful in the air. Laughably slow. Clumsy, poor technique, and literally couldn’t have been a worse finisher for us if he tried. His “utility” was running a lot trying to press. A defensive striker, which when saying out loud is one of the dumbest terms I’ve ever heard.

 

[stevoc]

Hence my original point I’m criticising Ten Hag for taking way too long before dropping him, over 20 starts before doing so. We had Garnacho on the bench over him for all that time. He was patchy too last season, but still a far better option.

Fred would have been a better option ffs. I think Fred scored 3 times as many goals as Wout during Wout's time at the club. People kept saying Wout brings pressing and workrate, yeah he did but Fred was better at both plus a bigger goal threat. Both about the same in the air, we could have just stuck Fred up front for 20 games.

 

[Valencia Shin Crosses]

For me the fight. The ability to attack in numbers. I have suffered the Moyes years. 200 crosses that never found anyone. I suffered LvG. We high fived eachother if one of our attackers found the opposition box after 75 minutes just once. I suffered Jose. I cried seeing Rashford demoted to play CB. Maybe he is still traumatised because of that.

Never

Again

We have lot of probems but when we are on it, we fight and kill anyone. And we do it collectively not because of just one brilliant player with one brilliant action. The first half vs Chelsea last december was man stirring. I shouted and screamed and had the same tears in my eyes as that kid, one minute after Amad killed LFC.

We fight. ETH has many things to prove, solve, improve. But I can wait a few more weeks. He doesn't need to go now.

Every game under Moyes you never know how it would start. Every game under LvG you knew it was going to be a waste of time. WIth ETH despite the mess, errors, every game today I know there is going to be a fight.

If he needs to go, fine. But I do expect some AAA top, top superb well experienced and well visioned working manager, and a structure that supports him and our club transfers.

Its wat I also like about Hojlund. He just keeps going. At that Bournemouth game last weekend Rashford sunk time and again, overthinking and overjudging his abilities. Then after 20 minutes Hojlund ended up on the left with 3 Bournemouth players surrounding him at the byline. He fought, fought, fought some more and then 3 Bournemouth players were left behind him. He killed all 3 of them.That was some show.

I''m old, i've seen the horror. ETH isn't that. yet. Imo. I feel sunday is going to be fantastic.

I’m sorry mate but this reads like a RAWK post

 

[sparx99]

On the face of it that video makes legitimate excuses for some of the performances.

However, what people always lose from the context is that we can’t possible have 10-15 useless players. Once you get to that point then it means the manager is failing to set them up to play to their strengths.

If Casemiro’s legs have gone don’t play a system that requires him to cover huge areas of the pitch. If Maguire and Evan’s are too slow to play a high line then defend deep and bring everyone deeper. Play outright counter attack football utilising the pace of Rashford, Hojlund and Garnacho. Not some hybrid Frankenstein system that isn’t helping anyone reach their potential.

 

[stevoc]

It’s actually ridiculous the hate some have for him. If I remember right, we won most of our games he started. Some people can only see the negative. Can only focus on the downside of things.

Weghorst loan was a terrible indictment of how the clubs been run, not ETH. Still find it funny that some people think that United managers decide that out of all the top class strikers they might want Weghorst, Ighalo and a crocked Martial were prime choices they definitely made.

Are you telling me Ten Hag didn't idenfity Weghorst as a loan option? United just randomly offered him one of his ex players who also happens to be Dutch?

 

[sparx99]

What is a far leftback?

‘Both our left backs’

 

[sparx99]

Are you telling me Ten Hag didn't idenfity Weghorst as a loan option? United just randomly offered him one of his ex players who also happens to be Dutch?

It was widely reported we only had like £2m available to pay for a loan at the time. I’m not sure there were many options. Same thing happened this year with Werner by all accounts. We seemed to be in the mix but didn’t have the funds.

 

[Juice Juiced]

What are we waiting for?

Something,something new managment and fresh start.
He should have removed long time ago.

 

[stevoc]

Sir Alex Ferguson, the greatest manager in the history of the game and Pep Guardiola the best manager currently have never and will never make a poor player good. They get a replacement player. Ten Hag is no different.

If you are waiting for a manager who makes champions out of our current squad we’re in for a scouse style 30 year barren period.

Fergie won a league title with Tom Cleverly starting 20 plus games. Yes a great manager can't make a bad player into a good one. But they can get more out of them or use them to their strengths.

Also Ten Hag signed around 50% of our current squad.

 

[Sarni]

Sir Alex Ferguson, the greatest manager in the history of the game and Pep Guardiola the best manager currently have never and will never make a poor player good. They get a replacement player. Ten Hag is no different.

If you are waiting for a manager who makes champions out of our current squad we’re in for a scouse style 30 year barren period.

That’s nonsense though. Both Fergie and Pep are extremely good at developing players and getting the best out of them, something which ETH is pretty much the exact opposite of. So many of current City players came there with average reputation and are now a part of well oiled machine pushing on all fronts - Akanji, Ake, Stones, Kovacic, Doku are all players I am sure people on here would now throw the same abuse at that they throw at our players, had they joined us instead of them and followed the same trajectory as all virtually our signings have over the last decade. Half of current City teams, including almost entire defense, are players that people had thought were nothing special.

And it’s also a myth that they just get a replacement for anyone that’s struggling. There’s only a handful examples of that, we’ve actually been way more guilty of that in recent years than City or United under Fergie was.

 

[stevoc]

It was widely reported we only had like £2m available to pay for a loan at the time. I’m not sure there were many options. Same thing happened this year with Werner by all accounts. We seemed to be in the mix but didn’t have the funds.

Yes and that's fair enough. We all know we couldn't have got a world class striker in January and options were limited. But no one with any sense would seriously suggest that Weghorst's signing wasn't Ten Hag's idea. Of all the bargain basement options floating about last January the club didn't randomly offer ETH one of his former players who is also Dutch.

Most of Ten Hag's signings have followed a trend, Ex player, Ex Ajax, Dutch or a combination of any or all three. Weghorst ticks two of those boxes.

 

[Sarni]

Yes and that's fair enough. We all know we couldn't have got a world class striker in January and options were limited. But no one with any sense would seriously suggest that Weghorst's signing wasn't Ten Hag's idea. Of all the bargain basement options floating about last January the club didn't randomly offer ETH one of his former players who is also Dutch.

Most of Ten Hag's signings have followed a trend, Ex player, Ex Ajax, Dutch or a combination of any or all three. Weghorst ticks two of those boxes.

He had never managed Weghorst before United.

 

[Fallon d'Floor]

On the face of it that video makes legitimate excuses for some of the performances.

However, what people always lose from the context is that we can’t possible have 10-15 useless players. Once you get to that point then it means the manager is failing to set them up to play to their strengths.

If Casemiro’s legs have gone don’t play a system that requires him to cover huge areas of the pitch. If Maguire and Evan’s are too slow to play a high line then defend deep and bring everyone deeper. Play outright counter attack football utilising the pace of Rashford, Hojlund and Garnacho. Not some hybrid Frankenstein system that isn’t helping anyone reach their potential.

McKola is a waffler just like Howson, Goldbridge and others.

Fair play to them that they've made a great living out of social media and buiding their platforms, but I'd rather shit in my hands and clap than listen to any of them.

That Frank Twitter/X account has been embarrassing itself for months.

 

[stevoc]

He had never managed Weghorst before United.

That's right I forgot that and assumed he had played for him. Still Dutch though.

 

[Amar__]

He had never managed Weghorst before United.

Pretty sure they were familiar with each other, I think they lived pretty close in Netherlands, and wasn't Ten Hag's brother his agent?

 

[DJ_21]

Onana doesnt need replacing. He had a difficult start but keeps getting better. Put a stable defense in front of him and Onana wont be a problem at all.

Also there is nothing poor about signing Eriksen on a free. I think Eriksen was supposed to be Bruno and Frenkie his back up but Frenkie never came so Eriksen started a full season. He did quite well.

Ye I never said Onana was a problem. I agree with a more comfortable defence and maybe better strikers who can hold up the ball he’ll be so much better. Also Eriksen was meant to be a back up but played more games than expected last season. But surely the club knew with him and Casemiro we’d be back to square 1 and having to replace them within a couple of seasons.

 

[DJ_21]

Yeah the goalkeeper thing was a bit weird, but do we know that Casemiro was an EtH signing? I've seen this a lot over the years and my impression is that some people at the club basically tell a manager it's 'either this player or no one else' and for a club that always seems to need more players I guess you're going to take what's offered. I'm pretty sure the likes of Fred and Donny VdB were not manager signings for Jose or Ole for instance.

Definite poor planning and I suspect EtH shares some blame but not all of it.

Well ETH has come out a few weeks ago and said he’ll work with the new owners and they won’t buy a player that the manager doesn’t want. I’m sure that was the case previously. ETH wouldn’t have accepted a player if he didn’t want him.

 

[golden_blunder]

"another parts of me goals all far left backs have been injured"

Wtf are these subs?

It can’t keep up with the shite he talks

 

[Plant0x84]

‘Both our left backs’

Obviously!

More fun to take the mick. This is a boring response!

 

[The Mitcher]

Why the feck should he need someone to tell him that the suicidal way he's sets this team up to play is fecking stupid and not conducive to winning football games?

I couldn't believe what I read. Do they even read what they write? He's basically saying that ETH is so dumb as a manager he needs another person above him to tell him how to play!

 

[Shark]

Can anyone still supporting ETH ever see him competing with these two City and Madrid teams in Europe last night. Even if you think he might stabilise us with the backing of new ownership can you genuinely see him taking us to these heights. Let alone challenge for a league title. That's the level that any United manager should be striving for so it's a simple question we have to ask.

 

[Chumpsbechumps]

Are you telling me Ten Hag didn't idenfity Weghorst as a loan option? United just randomly offered him one of his ex players who also happens to be Dutch?

Are you telling me United managers chose Weghorst , Ighalo and to keep Martial even though United offered them far better alternatives?

I get you can only see this as a defence of ETH (it’s not) , but do you understand part of the infrastructure issues is the lack of support for managers in squad building/management.

Do you understand that regardless of any of the managers we have had, we’d of overpaid for players, given out stupid contracts, kept players nobody wanted, struggled to sell on players and would have squads short on positions?

Do you understand that regardless of manager they rely on the club to acquire their targets? Do you understand that most managers will not publicly question any signing the club makes, even if they didn’t want that player ? Do you understand if a team is lacking in a position and the club has no money, there are limited options for the manager to cho

That doesn’t imply any of our managers have been good enough and doesn’t mean ETH is faultless or that he automatically gets a pass this season.

It implies we have fundamental club dysfunction that’s poorly utilised our resources. That includes a throw sh*t against a wall transfer/manager strategy.

Can some of you give the “all we needed was the right manager” sh*t a rest for awhile. United and Chelsea are spending a fortune and are doing terrible , bad managers is not the consistent variable.

 

[Plant0x84]

That’s nonsense though. Both Fergie and Pep are extremely good at developing players and getting the best out of them, something which ETH is pretty much the exact opposite of.

No he isn’t! He’s improved AwB, Dalot, McT, and he had Rashy playing well last season. There are also quotes by Sabitzer about what a good coach ETH is.

And it’s also a myth that they just get a replacement for anyone that’s struggling. There’s only a handful examples of that, we’ve actually been way more guilty of that in recent years than City or United under Fergie was.

They went through about 3 years where they regularly spent £50 + on fullbacks.! The first thing pep did was boot out Hart. We might spend more through our incompetence but don’t let that fool you into thinking Pep doesn’t get players if his squad shows a weakness.

So many of current City players came there with average reputation

No they didn’t! You’re rewriting history here chap, City regularly sign top young prospects or proven quality. They can attract those players because they are the dominant team in the league. They don’t have to pay the Utd tax because they have no football heritage!

 

[BorisManUtd]

Yeah he was terrible, but at least he had a translatable skill you could point to (nice left peg).

Weghorst is the most unthreatening attacker I’ve ever watched at a top league. Giant, but awful in the air. Laughably slow. Clumsy, poor technique, and literally couldn’t have been a worse finisher for us if he tried. His “utility” was running a lot trying to press. A defensive striker, which when saying out loud is one of the dumbest terms I’ve ever heard.

He was useful first month and a half scoring few goals in league cup and Europa and doing some good pressing (like vs Newcastle in the final and getting an assist for 2nd goal) but afterwards and until the end of the season he looked worse and worse. It was fun having him.

 

[Sunny Jim]

Alex Telles runs it close. The wonder goal he scored saves him but overall he was atrocious.

donny?

 

[Red in STL]

One who Marx the attackers

 

[Red in STL]

Yes and that's fair enough. We all know we couldn't have got a world class striker in January and options were limited. But no one with any sense would seriously suggest that Weghorst's signing wasn't Ten Hag's idea. Of all the bargain basement options floating about last January the club didn't randomly offer ETH one of his former players who is also Dutch.

Most of Ten Hag's signings have followed a trend, Ex player, Ex Ajax, Dutch or a combination of any or all three. Weghorst ticks two of those boxes.

Weghorst's goal stats overall are reasonably good even if they're not at top teams, I can understand why ETH thought he might do a job for us based on this

2012–2014 Emmen 62 (20)
2014–2016 Heracles Almelo 64 (20)
2016–2018 AZ 60 (31)
2018–2022 VfL Wolfsburg 118 (59)
2022– Burnley 20 (2)
2022–2023 → Beşiktaş (loan) 16 (8)
2023 → Manchester United (loan) 17 (0)
2023– → TSG Hoffenheim (loan) 24 (6)

 

[The Mitcher]

Weghorst's goal stats overall are reasonably good even if they're not at top teams, I can understand why ETH thought he might do a job for us based on this

2012–2014 Emmen 62 (20)
2014–2016 Heracles Almelo 64 (20)
2016–2018 AZ 60 (31)
2018–2022 VfL Wolfsburg 118 (59)
2022– Burnley 20 (2)
2022–2023 → Beşiktaş (loan) 16 (8)
2023 → Manchester United (loan) 17 (0)
2023– → TSG Hoffenheim (loan) 24 (6)

That's distinctly average. ETH was on drugs if he thought Weghorst would do well for us based on that. Just look at his stats for an actual premier league team, garbage.

 

[stevoc]

Are you telling me United managers chose Weghorst , Ighalo and to keep Martial even though United offered them far better alternatives?

I get you can only see this as a defence of ETH (it’s not) , but do you understand part of the infrastructure issues is the lack of support for managers in squad building/management.

Do you understand that regardless of any of the managers we have had, we’d of overpaid for players, given out stupid contracts, kept players nobody wanted, struggled to sell on players and would have squads short on positions?

Do you understand that regardless of manager they rely on the club to acquire their targets? Do you understand that most managers will not publicly question any signing the club makes, even if they didn’t want that player ? Do you understand if a team is lacking in a position and the club has no money, there are limited options for the manager to cho

That doesn’t imply any of our managers have been good enough and doesn’t mean ETH is faultless or that he automatically gets a pass this season.

It implies we have fundamental club dysfunction that’s poorly utilised our resources. That includes a throw sh*t against a wall transfer/manager strategy.

Can some of you give the “all we needed was the right manager” sh*t a rest for awhile. United and Chelsea are spending a fortune and are doing terrible , bad managers is not the consistent variable.

Do you understand that while some of the things you claim here are true or at least partly true the majority of it is a load of old bollocks?

If you are trying to claim Ten Hag didn't indentify and ask the club to get him Weghorst when he knew he could only get a low value loan striker last January, then that's bollocks.

If you are trying to play the old ''Ten Hag hasn't had the proper support card to absolve him of responsibility then that's bollocks too. He wanted control of transfers and he got it. With that control he's spunked hundreds of millions on mostly poor signings.

 

[miliebrowndivorceattorney]

I’m sorry mate but this reads like a RAWK post

A what? I had accusations of WUMing whilst posting a positive perspective on the Bournemouth game. I even got a warning from a mod that though I took the mickey, wich only after some discussion was removed. Why is it so hard for people to see there are different views? Despite red, this still isn't MAO land? The personal attacks. Do I attack people for not supporting ETH?

Can anyone still supporting ETH ever see him competing with these two City and Madrid teams in Europe last night. Even if you think he might stabilise us with the backing of new ownership can you genuinely see him taking us to these heights. Let alone challenge for a league title. That's the level that any United manager should be striving for so it's a simple question we have to ask.

Ah. But ETH is deemed bad because of A. "no control, low possesion stats" and plenty of shots against during a game.

Real Madrid, Godly real Madrid, had 33 shots against and only 37% possesion last night. They didn't get out of their box all game. The exact same tactics as Ten Hag played vs City march 3 just 6 weeks ago

Yet somehow now we need to hire Ancelotti.

Why is it okay for Madrid to show that kind of game and not Ten Hag? Can you explain that one for me?

The frustration is getting rather on person Erik ten Hag than on facts, it seems, bar a few exceptions.

 

[stevoc]

Weghorst's goal stats overall are reasonably good even if they're not at top teams, I can understand why ETH thought he might do a job for us based on this

2012–2014 Emmen 62 (20)
2014–2016 Heracles Almelo 64 (20)
2016–2018 AZ 60 (31)
2018–2022 VfL Wolfsburg 118 (59)
2022– Burnley 20 (2)
2022–2023 → Beşiktaş (loan) 16 (8)
2023 → Manchester United (loan) 17 (0)
2023– → TSG Hoffenheim (loan) 24 (6)

Yeah the first bolded period there in a top league should have given him an idea as to how the second bolded period would go.

 

[Chumpsbechumps]

Do you understand that while some of the things you claim here are true or at least partly true the majority of it is a load of old bollocks?

If you are trying to claim Ten Hag didn't indentify and ask the club to get him Weghorst when he knew he could only get a low value loan striker last January, then that's bollocks.

If you are trying to play the old ''Ten Hag hasn't had the proper support card to absolve him of responsibility then that's bollocks too. He wanted control of transfers and he got it. With that control he's spunked hundreds of millions on mostly poor signings.

That’s literally what SJR said was part of the problem and why he’s spent over a billion to get control of football operations, but sure you know better!!!

I never said ETH wasn’t involved in the Weghorst deal, I said the fact our managers keep ending up with these sort of quick fix plasters is a club issue.

 

[Gordon S]

If you went through all our wins this season I think for the vast majority of them we were pretty lucky to get the win.

The amount of times we've played well and won this season is absolutely tiny, genuinely it's been about two or three times all season at most.

We're incredibly lucky to be as high as 7th.

Palace in the cup is the only game Onana didn`t have much to do. Wasn`t a big score but we actually controlled the game for large parts. Palace barely got a sniff.
Apart from that it is revolving doors through our midfield more or less every single game.
But what about that time we smashed Everton 3-0 you might say? Everton managed 24 shots to our 9…
We beat West ham 3-0 as well, that was convincing and dominating right? They managed 22 shots..

 

[Devil77]

A what? I had accusations of WUMing whilst posting a positive perspective on the Bournemouth game. I even got a warning from a mod that though I took the mickey, wich only after some discussion was removed. Why is it so hard for people to see there are different views? Despite red, this still isn't MAO land? The personal attacks. Do I attack people for not supporting ETH?




Ah. But ETH is deemed bad because of A. "no control, low possesion stats" and plenty of shots against during a game.

Real Madrid, Godly real Madrid, had 33 shots against and only 37% possesion last night. They didn't get out of their box all game. The exact same tactics as Ten Hag played vs City march 3 just 6 weeks ago

Yet somehow now we need to hire Ancelotti.

Why is it okay for Madrid to show that kind of game and not Ten Hag? Can you explain that one for me?

The frustration is getting rather on person Erik ten Hag than on facts, it seems, bar a few exceptions.

Because we do the same versus virtually any team. Madrid did it away to City.

 

[Gordon S]

A what? I had accusations of WUMing whilst posting a positive perspective on the Bournemouth game. I even got a warning from a mod that though I took the mickey, wich only after some discussion was removed. Why is it so hard for people to see there are different views? Despite red, this still isn't MAO land? The personal attacks. Do I attack people for not supporting ETH?




Ah. But ETH is deemed bad because of A. "no control, low possesion stats" and plenty of shots against during a game.

Real Madrid, Godly real Madrid, had 33 shots against and only 37% possesion last night. They didn't get out of their box all game. The exact same tactics as Ten Hag played vs City march 3 just 6 weeks ago

Yet somehow now we need to hire Ancelotti.

Why is it okay for Madrid to show that kind of game and not Ten Hag? Can you explain that one for me?

The frustration is getting rather on person Erik ten Hag than on facts, it seems, bar a few exceptions.

I am going to take a wild guess and say that 99% of the posters on here that want Erik out thinks like that because of the poor performances we have seen over his time here, aka facts.

 

[mu4c_20le]

Real Madrid, Godly real Madrid, had 33 shots against and only 37% possesion last night. They didn't get out of their box all game. The exact same tactics as Ten Hag played vs City march 3 just 6 weeks ago

Yet somehow now we need to hire Ancelotti.

Why is it okay for Madrid to show that kind of game and not Ten Hag? Can you explain that one for me?

The frustration is getting rather on person Erik ten Hag than on facts, it seems, bar a few exceptions.

If Madrid played like that against Bournemouth and Brentford then I don't think it would be okay for their fans either

 

[miliebrowndivorceattorney]

Because we do the same versus virtually any team. Madrid did it away to City.

We park the bus against virtually any team? Now this is evidently not true and a picture postcard WUM post.

I am going to take a wild guess and say that 99% of the posters on here that want Erik out thinks like that because of the poor performances we have seen over his time here, aka facts.

Another fallacy. Said poster claimed why can't we play like Madrid. Madrid parked the bus in the exact same way ETH did. It's 'we play bad'' when the defence comes with results, but when an example of bad play comes, ''we need results''. Pathetic.

If Madrid played like that against Bournemouth and Brentford then I don't think it would be okay for their fans either

More fallacy. It doesn't matter if Madrid plays like that against Bournemouth or Brentford. Their parking the bus last night, an exact copy of ETH tactics, was and is hailed being genius and their manager Ancelotti should replace ETH. When ETH does it, invents it its "" we play bad!!11!!!"

 

[Telsim]

A what? I had accusations of WUMing whilst posting a positive perspective on the Bournemouth game. I even got a warning from a mod that though I took the mickey, wich only after some discussion was removed. Why is it so hard for people to see there are different views? Despite red, this still isn't MAO land? The personal attacks. Do I attack people for not supporting ETH?




Ah. But ETH is deemed bad because of A. "no control, low possesion stats" and plenty of shots against during a game.

Real Madrid, Godly real Madrid, had 33 shots against and only 37% possesion last night. They didn't get out of their box all game. The exact same tactics as Ten Hag played vs City march 3 just 6 weeks ago

Yet somehow now we need to hire Ancelotti.

Why is it okay for Madrid to show that kind of game and not Ten Hag? Can you explain that one for me?

The frustration is getting rather on person Erik ten Hag than on facts, it seems, bar a few exceptions.

What do you think would happen to Ancelotti if Madrid played the same and conceded the same number of shots against Getafe, Osasuna, and Las Palmas, and were sitting 7th in La Liga, and finished dead last in a group with Galatasaray and Copenhagen?

He wouldn't be able to set foot in Madrid.