I think he'd pick Bayern ahead of us.
Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24
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What’s crazy is that these teams are so overwhelmed by options in all that space, they have a sensory overload and can’t decide which is the best to go for.
It’s our own use of The Force. “Nnnrgg! All. These. Options. Argh! Which. To. Pick!? C-c-can’t. Decide. Nnrggh!”
It would be an odd decision - from him and Bayern. He was sacked by them a year ago as he had lost the confidence and respect of the top brass and the players. It would make the board look utterly incompetent. He also might never get the chance to manage United again.
Yeah, that's my point... It's just a thing people on here do. It's nothing to do with being 'related' which is obviously just facetious terminology and isn't literal.
It is ironic that you defended Ole, given that your sarcastic comments in here echo the real life nauseating defence for him. Not sure how anyone defended any of them, in all honesty. People need to be more consistent with their views on managers.
But he hadn't lost the players, a lot of them were quite surprised by that decision. And the "top brass" Kahn and Salihamidzic performed so poorly that they were sacked by their superiors shortly after.
I'm not sure it's hard to believe that someone would rather coach their national team to a World Cup rather than come in late to preseason to take over a team in 6th with a really poor squad and currently without a director of football, head of recruitment or technical director.
I would also think in those circumstances going back to the team that he supported growing up, who happen to be the biggest club in his homeland and the favourites for the league every year, now that the people who previously sacked him are gone would be more appealing than taking on the exploding clown car that is Manchester United in 2024.
Dislike this argument.
Probably not challenging but there’s no way we would be set up so loose in midfield. 20+ shots conceded a game? This wasn’t even happening in Klopps first season. The performances would be much better.
Pep and Klopp would get the whole team squeezing up the pitch and dropping back when needed in unison. Klopp had Lovren and Klavan playing a high line. Pep had an aging Kompany and Otamendi doing the same.
Eh? Wasn't there a very well reported incident with Neuer? I thought it was established that it had become fracticious. Also wasn't aware it was just Kahn and Salihamidzic calling the shots. Maybe he'll be back then.
Forget Klopp and Pep, most PL managers wouldn't allow 20+ shots on target every game.
The basics of any coach should be to set up a team defensively, play a compact style. Every manager that comes in, the first priority should be to get this team hard to beat, then we can start looking at other things.
Ah come on, it's not typical for a young and aspiring manager to spend a significant chunk of their early years development at a national team. He had been sacked by Bayern and Germany were in need of a manager. I'm sure his ambitions are greater than international management.
Any new manager that isn't an idiot knows the situation at United has now changed. I'm not saying all and sundry will be immediately clamouring to join, but it's a hell of an opportunity that the vast majority of managers would go for.
Yes there was, about sacking Bayern's goalkeeper coach (and Neuer's close personal friend) Tapalovic. Clearly some players like him more than others, but I think that's just natural. Also I think it was relatively quickly clarified with Neuer that that wasn't a decision against him but that Tapalovic was sacked because he didn't care about any keeper not called Neuer. Neuer still stayed as Bayern's number one and even as Germany's first choice now under Nagelsmann (which is a decision that at least meets some skepticism considering ter Stegen is performing well and is much less injured currently), so it doesn't look like there is real bad blood between Neuer and Nagelsmann.
Yeah, I've asked twice now and tumbleweeds.
I'm open to persuasion. I'm not virulently Erik-out. But at the moment I see very few redeeming arguments in his favour.
I didn't really believe he was going to be a long term success for us, just at that point in time I thought he was doing a relatively decent job and did not deserve the abuse he got on here (what ETH is getting is nothing compared to what was thrown at Ole at the time). I wanted him to go badly in his final season and thought he was beyond saving but was OK with all that happened between 2019 and 2021. With ten Hag, I was very happy with him this time last year, but the last 12 months have made me lose any hope as they exacerbated all the warning signs I saw in his first season while basically revoking any of the positives.
See I think the answer lies with neither of them, but I think Southgate would be on a short leash with supporters and would be out of here quickly if/ when he doesn't deliver.
Ten Hag will have to be given a new contract, and I see how blindly loyal many are to him, so I could see him surviving longer if given a new deal.
I also find Ten Hag very unlikeable with his arrogance and how he tries to gaslight fans after every game like we're all idiots and shouldn't be questioning him.
Southgate would never be accepted from the start. Think it would be a pointless endeavour.
Abuse? I mean ETH was called a wanker and a clown in here several times yesterday... But nah, you Ole lot were a special breed. All valid criticisms were met with the kind of sarcastic retorts you're famous for in here, except they were serious responses. I agree, no manager should be abused, but even the slightest criticisms of Ole were met with instant shut downs on here.
As I said, people need to be more consistent with their views on our managers. Otherwise, you leave yourself open to looking like an absolute hypocrite.
I think it's probably more likely than not that he will go back to club football but only for the right opportunity and I'm not sure given the options he would have that United would be that opportunity. The situation hopefully will change for the better but it hasn't as of yet, if anything at least before we theoretically had a director of football in place in John Murtough while we currently have a theoretical director of football on gardening leave for an unknown period of time. I agree that the vast majority of managers would go for it but the vast majority of managers don't have Germany, Bayern and potentially the likes of Liverpool and Juventus as alternative options.
It's very possible that he would want to join and the challenge of being part of the restoration of a huge club would be appealing but your original post said that there wasn't a cat in hell's chance he would turn the job down and I don't think that's true at all.
If they go that route then I hope they learn their lesson very quickly. But they, for me, cannot go into next season with ETH, as it will be a terrible look for them. It'll basically be them saying we're either skint or that we're writing off another season.
I thought it was evident I was speaking regarding sentiment in this thread, apologies, I should have made that clearer
I’ve read a post stating he delivered yesterday - and I also read another one saying they started contemplating a lot of “if” scenarios, with the implication being that our season wouldn’t be so bad - thus me thinking the result got him some goodwill.
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I never said it was great. I said it’s resulted in the limited options once Quansah makes the poor initial decision.
Bruno wasn’t ambling, you can clearly see in the clip he is prepping and then as soon as the ball is about to leave the boot, he goes.
Unless you go man to man (Bielsa style) there will always be a player free.
You are far better allowing someone to be out wide the further distance away from goal than you are to open up the middle something a lot of people are critical of here.
Also if AWB moves wider then the passing lane into the third man run (from their midfield centre) is wide open and that is a far more dangerous thing to allow (which is why you can see AWB stops).
Im beginning to question how receptive this audience is to even just acknowledging something basic that we are doing correctly.
I agree on all these points. Nonetheless I think it would have been even better if Diaz on the other wing was the free man, because the distance to pass to him is even bigger in that situation which makes that pass, even if he is free, much more difficult and risky to pull of than the pass to Salah. But as I already said that's nitpicking and the difference between good (which this was) and perfect.
But I think the goodwill is coming from his backers. Surely no one who was on the fence or a naysayer will have changed their opinion based on yesterday's game.
I feel like you're splitting hairs a bit here. The options were what you'd come to expect and what they faced all game, he had 3 options and normally it would have been a mundane passage of play if not for the mistake.
Ambling may be harsh, it was just Bruno getting frustrated and doing what he does where he just starts sprinting off to press even though he normally is easily bypassed in these situations. Normally, 30 seconds later he has his arms in the air asking why nobody backed him up. This time he got a gift instead, and pulled off a great finish.
If one of our players did that then I'm confident you would be here saying it was a bad mistake and cost us etc.
God damn it he's still here isn't he!
According to reports Liverpool's first choice is Amorim, Bayern's is Nagelsmann as well as De Zerbi. Juve?! I think if we wanted him he'd come. You might not agree, though.
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Not perfect no, but this was a very good example of how to set up to prevent central progression. How when inexperienced players make mistakes, to be in the positions to take advantage of them.
Shifting the entire defensive structure as you say would be the perfect thing here but we’re not there yet (and with so many defensive injuries and rotations of partnerships I think that’s a fair place to be).
I’m pointing out the intricacies of how this stuff works because if I don’t people misrepresent my views and I get called a cultist or whatever other lazy rubbish comes out.
It really wasn’t Bruno just frustrated, you can see the pressing trigger is when Quansah comes inside on his left foot, Højlund shadow covers the centre and Bruno’s man and that is the trigger for Bruno to go.
Was he sprinting or ambling?
I 100% believe Quansah made a mistake and good defensive structures enable you to punish them.
Had AWB not held his run, had the midfielder not followed their midfielder, had Højlund not shadow covered and Bruno spotted this trigger. Despite Quansah’s mistake we wouldn’t have been in a position to capitalise.
Feels like we're on a rudderless ship again and the only guarantee is that we won't stop being shit and relying on moments of brilliance to dig us out due to the way we're set up.
I know people like to pick on individuals for their mistakes but when you play without a midfield you're asking your defence to do a hell of a lot, and typically, your defenders are your lest technical, least competent players, hence the reason they mostly spoil instead of creating anything. So what happens when you overload these limited individuals and put them into a constant state of panic? Multiple mistakes.
The only option from here is to either replace the whole defence with midfielders or play with a deeper set up until we have chance to address the first point in the transfer window. However I think we know the answer will be do nothing and carry on as is.
I know people like to pick on individuals for their mistakes but when you play without a midfield you're asking your defence to do a hell of a lot, and typically, your defenders are your lest technical, least competent players, hence the reason they mostly spoil instead of creating anything. So what happens when you overload these limited individuals and put them into a constant state of panic? Multiple mistakes.
The only option from here is to either replace the whole defence with midfielders or play with a deeper set up until we have chance to address the first point in the transfer window. However I think we know the answer will be do nothing and carry on as is.
Remember when the players were continuously accused of throwing him under the bus because it’s what they’d done to previous managers. Like all ETH excuses they all get proven wrong with time. These players have not stopped trying and do their best to give their all despite their limitations and his shitty tactics.
When we do become a well structured and tactically sound side in the future (whenever that is) we will look back on these days and be completely lost how we had a side that gave up 20 shots on goal every game no matter the opponent.
It’s one thing to have a side that isn’t great at anything but to have a team with so many weaknesses is mind blowing.
When we do become a well structured and tactically sound side in the future (whenever that is) we will look back on these days and be completely lost how we had a side that gave up 20 shots on goal every game no matter the opponent.
It’s one thing to have a side that isn’t great at anything but to have a team with so many weaknesses is mind blowing.
It's not impossible. My fundamental point is that the club structure has bequeathed a bunch of players who, setting aside whether they have bad attitudes, aren't in many cases cut out for the rigours of intense modern football that Klopp and Pep brought to our shores, with its high press, its high energy, its constant focus on space and detail, its constant discipline. Without 11 of those people on the pitch every week you won't win stuff, you'll just be scrabbling around for fourth and fifth place.
I see a manager who gets that but can't remotely deliver with the players he started out with or the stop gaps he bought. I also see that situation getting better. What I don't expect to see is cohesion on the pitch until we have 11 of them. If we didn't want to go down this 'open heart surgery' route we should have given the job to Carrick. We'd now probably be in fourth place.
This conversation about United after the first 10 is spot on imo. Absurd team
I really don’t get the argument of give him one more season or until Christmas. We’ve gone full circle since he arrived, it was a three year job to sort the mess out and it’s still the same now.
You have to believe he is the right man and be prepared to stick with him for an absolute minimum of two more years. The only alternative is to sack him, not a half arsed let’s just see what happens and try to avoid making a decision. All that will result from that is him being sacked as soon as there is a bad run next season, which could be within first couple of months.
You have to believe he is the right man and be prepared to stick with him for an absolute minimum of two more years. The only alternative is to sack him, not a half arsed let’s just see what happens and try to avoid making a decision. All that will result from that is him being sacked as soon as there is a bad run next season, which could be within first couple of months.
Everyone needs to watch the Athletic’s video, great tactical analysis of ETH’s tactics.
I don't know. I'm struggling to recognise United fans these days, I mean:
I haven't really held them to different standards. When we were playing fairly well last season I was pro-ETH, and when we were performing similarly under Ole in 20-21 I was pro-Ole. When we started playing horribly under ETH this season I have wanted him out, and when things went south under Ole I wanted him out as well (also questioned him at the beginning of 19-20).
Only difference being people widely wanted Ole out in 20-21 as well while nobody questioned ETH last year (rightly so).
I agree. There are managers nowhere near on their level who could get more out of this squad. Emery would. Perhaps O'Neil would. Maybe even Eddie Howe, who galvanised a fairly average squad last year and achieved a lot.
I can't accept that Ten Hag, even if he isn't on the level we hoped he might be, cannot come up with a better tactical set up than the utter chaos that is relying on your opposition missing 90% of the chances they create, while you hope to score 50% of the handful of chances you might create.
I'm baffled at how he thinks this, or anyone, could think that's sustainable, or that their isn't a better way.
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At the end of 2020/21 Ole had been here 2 and a half seasons and it was obvious to most that he wasn't the right man. ETH done a passable job considering it was his first season. If he were 2 and a half seasons into the job, then no, last season would have had massive red flags.
tl;dr Varane, Maguire, Casemiro, Evans are too slow/immobile for a high press but we're playing it anyway while they sit back and get overrun. This is well known. The solution is don't play high press or get new players. The same applies whether ETH stays or not.
Entertaining games, at least 40 shots per game, 28-30 for opponents and 10 for us. Mastermind EtH says it's all fine because we didn't concede lot from those shots.
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