Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24

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FortunaUtd said:
Let me boil it down to a statement relevant to this thread:
We are more likely to win our next treble by hiring 44 year old De Zerbi than we are by hiring 50 year old Frank.
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I’ll be honest I’ve no idea what you’re trying to get from this and the good part of the discussion has long since left the station.
 
Steve 007 said:
If ETH loses the next two games he’s surely gone. So who can we get?

The scary thing is that Bayern, Liverpool and Barcelona all want a new manager and are all teams that can challenge and win things. They are all in CL as well. Unless you are a Utd fan you’d be pretty stupid to come here if you could get a job at any of them.
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Nagelsmann is my number one target as Alonso wasn't realistic and decided to stay at Leverkusen
 
Telsim said:
6 pages since my visit in the morning. I thought the good news had arrived.

Nope.
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Because of just 6 pages? When he eventually leaves / is sacked, it'll grow at least 6 pages in about 4/5 minutes. No matter what time of day the news comes out.
 
Longshanks said:
Brentford either play round a press or over a press, they won't try and go through. They generally work it to the keeper to hit the wing backs or hit Toney.

Our pressing structure gave them both options that they like with the added bonus of when they went long they had an overload in midfield for second balls and when the went wide they had a wide overload to get up the pitch.

So what actually were ten hags instructions play directly into Brentford main strengths? Great instruction worked really well.
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I don‘t know specifically I wasn‘t there in the dressing room, but we were fine pressing for 15 minutes.

I noticed them having space on the flank which is weird, because we are supposed to compress the space there once the ball goes wide. Oh and I think they also played through us.

What I noticed is that we lost the duels and second balls, and turned over the ball to them like it was radioactive.

I‘m not making excuses; I‘m trying to understand what happened. Ultimately the coach is responsible for the performance regardless. To put it down to tactics when we are losing all challenges does not make sense to me.
 
JPRouve said:
For lack of better image, I would describe most careers as an incline in the 30s-40s, a plateau in the late 40s-early 50s and a decline after that.
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This is a bs discussion, but consider that a manager gets further away from his playing days as he ages. He will be more out of touch with the players as he gets older. This is not necessarily an issue though.

Another factor not mentioned is burnout. After several years in a high stress job a manager needs a year off to recharge. This is why Klopp is resigning.

The best managers keep reinventing themselves and it doesn‘t matter what age they are. The ones that don‘t, may fail.
 
JPRouve said:
I keep asking myself that question. Also with the way players start and stop the press, I don't understand why the initial setup is a 4222 with the striker and AM pressing inside and the wingers covering from inside to outside. That way you actually take space away from the opposition.
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I think ideally I would of pushed the full backs onto the wing backs used the front three to press the CBs and then used Bruno to press the no 6. Basically gone man for man. Then realistically there only option is to go long and if you can hurry them into going long rather than let them set it up, then your on a winner.
 
croadyman said:
Nagelsmann is my number one target as Alonso wasn't realistic and decided to stay at Leverkusen
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Bayern seem to have woken up and intent on getting him back unfortunately. We left it too long (as usual).

Similar situation with De Zerbi / Amorim too. One will go to Liverpool, we need to get the other one.

Other options to round out the list: Potter, Conte, Tuchel, Inzaghi. Anyone else in the Caf favored list?
 
JeffFromHK said:
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Anyone else feel that we love defending with a straight line of players and it never works?
When we are defending set pieces we also love defending with a straight line of players and all balls cleared surely go to the opposition
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Pure lack of communication or awareness. One of The defenders should have either seen the guys edge of the box and gone there or shouted at someone to run there.
 
croadyman said:
Nagelsmann is my number one target as Alonso wasn't realistic and decided to stay at Leverkusen
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Do you think he’d pick us over Bayern? Can’t see it.

I think we’ll end up with Potter or Southgate neither excite me. Conte wouldn’t be on Utd’s list due to spurs and Chelsea controversies.
 
Steve 007 said:
Do you think he’d pick us over Bayern? Can’t see it.

I think we’ll end up with Potter or Southgate neither excite me. Conte wouldn’t be on Utd’s list due to spurs and Chelsea controversies.
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Did you mean to type Bayern? He was sacked at Bayern around this time a year ago, most would say it was unfairly too. I doubt he is going back there.
 
RedStarUnited said:
Did you mean to type Bayern? He was sacked at Bayern around this time a year ago, most would say it was unfairly too. I doubt he is going back there.
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They want him back apparently. Wouldn't be surprised to see him return.
 
RedStarUnited said:
Did you mean to type Bayern? He was sacked at Bayern around this time a year ago, most would say it was unfairly too. I doubt he is going back there.
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I think he's actually one of the favourites to return there and let bygones be bygones. I think their board are swallowing their pride a little given he wasn't performing THAT badly when sacked
 
RedStarUnited said:
Did you mean to type Bayern? He was sacked at Bayern around this time a year ago, most would say it was unfairly too. I doubt he is going back there.
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Bayern sacked Kahn and Halihamidzic at the end of the season for messing up the situation around Nagelsmann. He already got his revenge there in a way.
 
NLunited said:
This is a bs discussion, but consider that a manager gets further away from his playing days as he ages. He will be more out of touch with the players as he gets older. This is not necessarily an issue though.

Another factor not mentioned is burnout. After several years in a high stress job a manager needs a year off to recharge. This is why Klopp is resigning.

The best managers keep reinventing themselves and it doesn‘t matter what age they are. The ones that don‘t, may fail.
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I don't really know how it's relevant to anything I said but I agree with that.
 
Longshanks said:
I think ideally I would of pushed the full backs onto the wing backs used the front three to press the CBs and then used Bruno to press the no 6. Basically gone man for man. Then realistically there only option is to go long and if you can hurry them into going long rather than let them set it up, then your on a winner.
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Considering how it went, we may as well have.
 
RedStarUnited said:
Pure lack of communication or awareness. One of The defenders should have either seen the guys edge of the box and gone there or shouted at someone to run there.
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Wan Bissaka was just walking after the ball got cleared the first time and he kept Toney onside. Everyone else held the line like they were supposed to.
 
I am still a fan of ETH. Problem is, we at United didn't have the organisation to support him, so he went his own way. He needs a DOF who also need the right recruitment team. ETH has done a great job of getting youger players into the first team environment. His
I hope Ratcliffe will bring the right organisation to help him.
If we do get rid of him I hope we go for Kieran McKenna.
He was great wwith our youth teams and has done a fantastic job at Ipswich. Has United DNA
 
dutchred said:
I am still a fan of ETH. Problem is, we at United didn't have the organisation to support him, so he went his own way. He needs a DOF who also need the right recruitment team. ETH has done a great job of getting youger players into the first team environment. His
I hope Ratcliffe will bring the right organisation to help him.
If we do get rid of him I hope we go for Kieran McKenna.
He was great wwith our youth teams and has done a fantastic job at Ipswich. Has United DNA
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Which one out of ETH and McKenna has more vibes though?
 
Steve 007 said:
Do you think he’d pick us over Bayern? Can’t see it.

I think we’ll end up with Potter or Southgate neither excite me. Conte wouldn’t be on Utd’s list due to spurs and Chelsea controversies.
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We have got to at least give him an offer to rival that of Bayern but yeah do fear he goes back there
 
If we let ten Hag go, according to his fans Bayern/Barcelona will snap him up immediately which could open up our way to recruit Nagelsmann or de Zerbi.
 
@FrankDrebin to answer your question from the other thread.

The reason I’m happy enough to give him another season is because he’s done what many of those other managers you’ve listed have or equivalent and also showed he can reach a good level here.

So for me there has to be a compelling alternative which right now would be Alonso or Inzaghi in that what both are doing is dominating their leagues, with great defensive records and pretty good offensive ones too. They are playing good interesting and tactically sound football which gives them a significant advantage over their opponents each week.
 
MadDogg said:
We've spent the last 10 years replacing players as well. Doesn't seem to have helped any more than replacing the managers has.

It's obviously a possibility that both the players and the manager can be a problem at the same time. And based on what we are seeing it's not just a possibility, it's a strong probability. In which case, why allow a failing manager to continue training and managing the club which will likely result in another 12 months of failure, training a system that isn't working, and have influence on the transfer targets?

With the new football structure coming in I would hope that they already have a decent idea what the priority changes need to be, so a new manager will come into the club already being told that certain options will be changing. Sure they won't have as good a hands-on idea as ETH does, but that could perhaps be a good thing if ETH has formed attachments to players who aren't good enough.
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Yes we have spent the last 10 years buying players without a good sporting setup.

That have now left us with players like AWB, Lindelof, McGuire, McTominay, Rashford, Bruno who are not able to play possession football with a high defensive line.

But I guess they could do great if we get in a Simeone, Frank or someone else who are great at parking the bus (but not football worth watching and we will then get more of that type of players in).

I do not believe that we will get a clear out of players with a new manager as he will want to assess all the players before deciding which he believes in. And that will be the end of that transfer window.

I do agree that ETH do not seem to be the right manager but I still prefer to get a clear out of the players that did not show up vs Brentford etc. (it is not on any coach if players do not want to run back or cannot do a 5 yard pass).
 
Steve 007 said:
Do you think he’d pick us over Bayern? Can’t see it.

I think we’ll end up with Potter or Southgate neither excite me. Conte wouldn’t be on Utd’s list due to spurs and Chelsea controversies.
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What you think is irrelevant, we all dont know what will happen
 
BenitoSTARR said:
As 60/40 split after 30 isnt proving a point here.

For example using random.org 30 coin tosses could easily come out 18 heads 12 tails without anyone assuming bias.
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That's actually fair, there is roughly 20% chance to get 19 heads of 19 tails just based on chance (with a fair coin)
 
Yet more injured defenders

What is the root cause? Poor rehab? ETH rushing players back to try and save his job? Training programmes?

I also link the looking gassed after 20 minutes into this, as I think this and the injuries are closely linked

I can't believe so many players have suddenly become injury prone. It's completely unacceptable. ETH can now hide behind the multiple injuries excuse

Hangover from last season and the ridiculous number of games? It happened to Liverpool last season after their Europa campaign.

I hope this is getting seriously investigated because it's costing us massively. Imagine if we were competing on multiple fronts?
 
I’d say judging on form, our injuries and poorly tactical set up, I think we finish 9th or 10th if Chelsea go on a decent run. I don’t see us picking up any points until we play Sheff United on the 24th. If ETH is still in charge them, I can’t see anything other than proper down tool performances like we seen in Ole’s last few games. Newcastle, West Ham, Brighton and Chelsea will finish above us I reckon.
 
What I absolutely find baffling is his refusal to change formation or tactics all season long. We saw it vs Wolves last August and every single game has been the same. We have no control in any game. We are dire to watch. We can't defend a lead away from home. We have too many injuries. I have no faith in him.
 
hobbers said:
More muscle injuries, take a bow ETH.
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If only we had some form of staff dedicated to monitoring returning from injury and helping rehabilitate injury. You know some form of staff with a medical background maybe?

Oh no yeah let’s blame Ten Hag instead.
 
Revan said:
That's actually fair, there is roughly 20% chance to get 19 heads of 19 tails just based on chance (with a fair coin)
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Which is why I don’t think it’s statistically significant to argue that point.
 
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