astracrazy
Full Member
- Joined
- Feb 12, 2013
- Messages
- 2,139
Of course he is.You must be fuming we lost.
Of course he is.You must be fuming we lost.
It was more our players showing heart and taking full advantage of Liverpool's sloppiness than tactics but whatever.
For me I'm just puzzled as to why EtH would commit to this approach without the right players and not transition to it more slowly over the coming seasons. He clearly thinks that we can set up this way and I'm left wondering how you can do that with such an unathletic team that's not great on the ball either.You could quite easily see the huge flaws in his systematic approach today, the spaces we are asking players to cover is insane, not sustainable. You have fans criticizing the team as lazy during that game because they inevitability blew up after 30 mins, but I don't understand how they don't see the difference between constant 60 yard sprints forward and back and the more controlled, constant lower intensity running that keeping the ball can allow. Covering 13KM in 90 mins is not difficult, reasonable fitness makes that a steady jog, but break that into full gas sprints and the players will gas out and need recovery periods that his approach does not allow.
Utd were fortunate during that second half that Liverpool were so profligate on their breaks.
How does his style work when you are playing more than once a week, especially with his desire to play a settled 11, no wonder so many injuries are occurring, the load is too much.
Yeah that makes total sense, we won by the way and it was a great end to the game.You must be fuming we lost.
So you don't watch us every week then?One screenshot doesnt mean anything. Totally depended on the situation. Besides it is a 4 defenders against 3 attackers situation.
We won't get top 4 without a significant improvement in performance. If he achieves such a turnaround then no it would be silly to sack him.1st season
Top 4 finish
2x Cup Finals
Wins 1x cup
So if his 2nd Season ends with eg. cup final and qualifying for Champs League, are we still all for getting rid?
He’s probably not the man to bring us back to glory days but today will be a day to remember and will change the way people will look back at his tenure. For me this was better and way more meaningful than the League Cup win and it’s not even close.For me I'm just puzzled as to why EtH would commit to this approach without the right players and not transition to it more slowly over the coming seasons. He clearly thinks that we can set up this way and I'm left wondering how you can do that with such an unathletic team that's not great on the ball either.
Half of me is quite intrigued to see if he could play this way with the right players but it feels a million miles away.
I'm so happy we won today but as to the long term picture i'm still confused as to how this develops if EtH stays.
You must be fuming we lost.
So you don't watch us every week then?
Also, 4th isn't completely ruled out. Villa and Spurs aren't far off each other, if we catch up on one we may catch up on both.
Both have harder fixtures left compared to us, notably a City fixture that we've already played. If we have players staying fit and Licha back after internationals, wel see some twists yet.
Look are our chances vs the ones they got?
We won on xG as well. There is literally nothing Liverpool did today that would suggest they deserved to win more than we did even with our vast open plain of a midfield.
Wow, you read a lot into that screenshot huh?Im just not looking for negatives for a narrative that the manager needs to be sacked right now. Manchester United literally just beat one of the best teams in the world, who also is the biggest rival, at the dying seconds of a game. What do you do? You post a picture of one situation in the match where Liverpool is countering and McT let his man walk because you want the manager out.
To make it even worse. Our goals were scored by Antony and Amad. Players who were subbed on by a manager who is clueless according to you and others. Still you want that manager out and post one single screenshot that is supposed to make a point to have the manager sacked.
Wow, you read a lot into that screenshot huh?
That's the thing i'm not sure about. I like EtH and I want to understand what he's building towards and if it can actually be done. We saw with Klopp and, to a lesser extent Poch with Spurs, play these hyper aggressive pressing systems that required so much intensity to play but it's not been working for us at a sustainable level. I am wondering with the right players if it would be achievable though? Let's say our best team is this:He’s probably not the man to bring us back to glory days but today will be a day to remember and will change the way people will look back at his tenure. For me this was better and way more meaningful than the League Cup win and it’s not even close.
It also showed that these tactics can work and we could beat anyone on our day. Could also very well lose to anyone when we are not at it.
I agree we are getting bogged down. You seem to reply with bizarre things like "does not correlate" when it's quite simple things to understand. You think things are trending down when in the course of this season they very clearly aren't. Downward trends have bounced back, and he's been able to stabilise form at various points the longest one of which being 2024 thus far.There’s lots to unravel here so I’m going to have to ignore things I’ve explained to you elsewhere, otherwise we’ll be here all day.
If our injuries are mainly in the back line why can the midfield not keep the ball & why is the attack so impotent?
We’ve conceded 39 goals this year in the league which is less than both Villa & Spurs. The problems are actually where we’ve been fitter. . .
It’s hard to not identify an apologist when a poster is making blind excuses.
Who’s saying sit back & counter?
Here we go again, writing war & peace about something people aren’t saying.
Another paragraph about something irrelevant.
So those 2 things don’t correlate.
Points per game are ‘drastically’ worse. In a game where the margin is 0 to 3, .3 is 10%.
Last Season PPG - 1.97
This Season PPG - 1.68
That’s 10% in a game of fine margins.
You throw around terms like Points per game with no context then you talk about injuries again with no context other than ‘more defensive ones’ & when you get challenged on the detail you say this. Good faith indeed.
On more than one occasion you’ve talked about where we ‘would’ be or ‘should’ be had it not been for injuries.
I can’t really elaborate further if you can’t distinguish between discussing what has actually happened this season as opposed to ‘woulda, coulda, shoulda’.
Google generalisation & come back to me.
Considering I’ve had to ask you to clarify multiple points & you’ve turned this discussion into anything but an appraisal of EtH on his merits then yes, your points aren’t landing.
I don’t expect you to have a full memory as judging by your post your memory of EtH only incorporates Jan 2024 to March 2024.
What I do expect is when discussing, in good faith of course, that posters won’t make up things to argue against. There was no insinuation. I’ve literally argued opposite.
Stop telling me what I am insinuating & discuss what I am writing.
What the hell has Moyes got to do with EtH?
Who has said saving managers is simply about Top4?
You keep doing this. Quote me & discuss what is quoted.
I’ve tried multiple times to discuss his performance & you keep bring it back 11 games.
So as you’ve addressed the last 11 games how about addressing the season because last time I checked the January to March 2024 trophy wasn’t a thing any manager has ever been judged on.
Google obligation & then go through multiple occasions where Varane was left out through choice.
I’ve already conceded the defence has been compromised , you seem incapable of accepting anything else into the equation so I’m at a loss as to where we go now cause you’ll come back with more about ‘our defence has had more injuries’ which in turn means we’ve had a healthier midfield/attack, no? Then you’ll harp on about the last 11 games.
I was up for a decent conversation but we’re getting bogged down.
not sure if serious, but Adam Crafton nailed itIt also showed that these tactics can work and we could beat anyone on our day. Could also very well lose to anyone when we are not at it.
Must feel bad not being able to enjoy a win because you want the manager sacked.
Enjoyed that game, started well, totally frustrating for an hour, then the equaliser brought the joy of extra time, frustration again after they scored. But that last half hour was mental, there was no shape structure or tactics and to win it like that in the last minute was just brilliant. Been a long time since I've been through a game with such ups and downs.
Today's not a day to praise of deride ETH, enjoy the game and the win for what it was, stopped them cnuts drooling all over Klopp's shaft and his farewell tour. I don't remember SAF getting such an arse licking in his last few months, the bastards were all delighted to see the back of him. Feck Klopp, and feck everyone else. This was Utd's day and it was beautiful.
Well for some reason the screenshot has triggered you. The previous poster said that no one could possibly criticise Ten Hag today after that win, so I simply shared a screenshot that shows how our team was setup to play against one of the best teams in the league. Does that give the win less value? Does that mean we were absolutely shit? Does that mean I'm unhappy we won? Absolutely no on all counts, but you can't ignore the gaping holes and issues with his tactics. The fact we got control of the game and scored at least 2 of our goals from deep counter positions tells you everything you need to know about how he should be setting up this group of players for the time being, and that my sweet summer child is the entire point.I just think it is incredibly low to post a screenshot of one situation -without any context- in a match to still make your ETH out point. Really makes it seem like your ETH out narrative is more important to you than a Manchester United win.
Quite fitting that we're facing his team next in the cup thenHe saved his job today, it could be up there with Mark Robbins saving SAF.
Elliott is one of those players who as an opposition fan, I am rarely worried about even when he is in dangerous positions. Yeah he fluked into a goal today, but he also just makes nothing out of so many dangerous opportunities.That triple sub of Elliott, Bradley and Gahkpo for Szobozo, Robbo and Salah-o was a mad reducer of ability.
Yet Elliott fluked a deflection in, but was also massively caught for the winner.
That plus the injuries plus the lack of any clear available alternative all make me lean towards keeping him unless the season ends in complete shambles. I don't see any obvious upgrades available to us and there is something to be said for having some continuity.Which is why I’d like to give him another season. The players are still fighting for him unlike the previous managers… he’s not toxic in interviews. And he’s shown glimpses of good football… just needs to sort out the midfield situation and have us playing a little more compact.
It was also far from the only time it happened though. One example could be a miscommunication or missed assignment. Less glaring examples occurred a handful of times all with us already up a goal meaning there was no reason for us to put that much risk into it. The level of risk we were taking is only sustainable in short bursts of 15-20 minutes which is why our midfield looked tired 30 minutes into the game. You can't expect Mainoo and McTominay to be regularly making runs into the box and simultaneously be responsible for screening the defense in a high intensity match.You are right, and if you remember this in real time, it was Mctominay who was supposed to be tracking back but was too busy pointing instead. Throw any body in that gap and its a well executed defensive transition with one player protecting the back 4. This was a failed assignment by a midfield player - not a tactical set up.
not sure if serious, but Adam Crafton nailed it
It was at the FT whistle so probably about our chaotic, passion and adrenaline driven football todayWhat is this in response to? I know he loves to shit on United, but what is the context?
It was at the FT whistle so probably about our chaotic, passion and adrenaline driven football today
Funny thing is that I saw this gap in live, and something like 2min later Liverpool had a similar gap in their midfield which allowed Garnacho to run diagonally unchallenged.Well for some reason the screenshot has triggered you. The previous poster said that no one could possibly criticise Ten Hag today after that win, so I simply shared a screenshot that shows how our team was setup to play against one of the best teams in the league. Does that give the win less value? Does that mean we were absolutely shit? Does that mean I'm unhappy we won? Absolutely no on all counts, but you can't ignore the gaping holes and issues with his tactics. The fact we got control of the game and scored at least 2 of our goals from deep counter positions tells you everything you need to know about how he should be setting up this group of players for the time being, and that my sweet summer child is the entire point.