Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24

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Blood Mage said:
It was more our players showing heart and taking full advantage of Liverpool's sloppiness than tactics but whatever.
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Yeah, AWB always plays as left back. Chose that position with Bruno.

But go on making yourself ridiculous. Even before the game many thought we would sink and just a question with how many goals LFC would win.

Despite, and with a much criticised McTominay, we should have been 2 goals up after 20 minutes and had several one on one's denied because Rashford just isn't the top player he thinks he is. That Ten Hag manages to win over this glorious LFC with this current squad and its many problems, is testament for him. Always kept pushing for football win too and did not hide for the penalty shoot out like LFC did. It was a Ten Hag sub too that scored the winner.

Be a man and give credit where it is due. Ten Hag schooled Klopp and lifted this bunch over their capabilities many times.
 
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Bobski said:
You could quite easily see the huge flaws in his systematic approach today, the spaces we are asking players to cover is insane, not sustainable. You have fans criticizing the team as lazy during that game because they inevitability blew up after 30 mins, but I don't understand how they don't see the difference between constant 60 yard sprints forward and back and the more controlled, constant lower intensity running that keeping the ball can allow. Covering 13KM in 90 mins is not difficult, reasonable fitness makes that a steady jog, but break that into full gas sprints and the players will gas out and need recovery periods that his approach does not allow.

Utd were fortunate during that second half that Liverpool were so profligate on their breaks.

How does his style work when you are playing more than once a week, especially with his desire to play a settled 11, no wonder so many injuries are occurring, the load is too much.
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For me I'm just puzzled as to why EtH would commit to this approach without the right players and not transition to it more slowly over the coming seasons. He clearly thinks that we can set up this way and I'm left wondering how you can do that with such an unathletic team that's not great on the ball either.

Half of me is quite intrigued to see if he could play this way with the right players but it feels a million miles away.

I'm so happy we won today but as to the long term picture i'm still confused as to how this develops if EtH stays.
 
1st season
Top 4 finish
2x Cup Finals
Wins 1x cup

So if his 2nd Season ends with eg. cup final and qualifying for Champs League, are we still all for getting rid?
 
Gazautd18 said:
1st season
Top 4 finish
2x Cup Finals
Wins 1x cup

So if his 2nd Season ends with eg. cup final and qualifying for Champs League, are we still all for getting rid?
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We won't get top 4 without a significant improvement in performance. If he achieves such a turnaround then no it would be silly to sack him.
 
Must feel bad not being able to enjoy a win because you want the manager sacked.

Enjoyed that game, started well, totally frustrating for an hour, then the equaliser brought the joy of extra time, frustration again after they scored. But that last half hour was mental, there was no shape structure or tactics and to win it like that in the last minute was just brilliant. Been a long time since I've been through a game with such ups and downs.

Today's not a day to praise of deride ETH, enjoy the game and the win for what it was, stopped them cnuts drooling all over Klopp's shaft and his farewell tour. I don't remember SAF getting such an arse licking in his last few months, the bastards were all delighted to see the back of him. Feck Klopp, and feck everyone else. This was Utd's day and it was beautiful.
 
Irwin99 said:
For me I'm just puzzled as to why EtH would commit to this approach without the right players and not transition to it more slowly over the coming seasons. He clearly thinks that we can set up this way and I'm left wondering how you can do that with such an unathletic team that's not great on the ball either.

Half of me is quite intrigued to see if he could play this way with the right players but it feels a million miles away.

I'm so happy we won today but as to the long term picture i'm still confused as to how this develops if EtH stays.
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He’s probably not the man to bring us back to glory days but today will be a day to remember and will change the way people will look back at his tenure. For me this was better and way more meaningful than the League Cup win and it’s not even close.

It also showed that these tactics can work and we could beat anyone on our day. Could also very well lose to anyone when we are not at it.
 
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crossy1686 said:
So you don't watch us every week then?
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Im just not looking for negatives for a narrative that the manager needs to be sacked right now. Manchester United literally just beat one of the best teams in the world, who also is the biggest rival, at the dying seconds of a game. What do you do? You post a picture of one situation in the match where Liverpool is countering and McT let his man walk because you want the manager out.

To make it even worse. Our goals were scored by Antony and Amad. Players who were subbed on by a manager who is clueless according to you and others. Still you want that manager out and post one single screenshot that is supposed to make a point to have the manager sacked.
 
VP89 said:
Also, 4th isn't completely ruled out. Villa and Spurs aren't far off each other, if we catch up on one we may catch up on both.

Both have harder fixtures left compared to us, notably a City fixture that we've already played. If we have players staying fit and Licha back after internationals, wel see some twists yet.
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4th or 5th I don't mind which if either mean CL qualification.

I'm still expecting Tottenham to Spurs it up at some point this season.
 
BenitoSTARR said:
Look are our chances vs the ones they got?

We won on xG as well. There is literally nothing Liverpool did today that would suggest they deserved to win more than we did even with our vast open plain of a midfield.
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I never said they did to be fair. I'm simply commenting on how open we are and pointing out how it costs us.
 
Stadjer said:
Im just not looking for negatives for a narrative that the manager needs to be sacked right now. Manchester United literally just beat one of the best teams in the world, who also is the biggest rival, at the dying seconds of a game. What do you do? You post a picture of one situation in the match where Liverpool is countering and McT let his man walk because you want the manager out.

To make it even worse. Our goals were scored by Antony and Amad. Players who were subbed on by a manager who is clueless according to you and others. Still you want that manager out and post one single screenshot that is supposed to make a point to have the manager sacked.
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Wow, you read a lot into that screenshot huh?
 
There’s clear systematic failings and the goals we conceded happened due to the systematic failings. But….. potential two FA Cup finals in a row and clearly the players still believe in him.

I don’t want him sacked and would give him next season but also I realise this is a form of madness.
 
crossy1686 said:
Wow, you read a lot into that screenshot huh?
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I just think it is incredibly low to post a screenshot of one situation -without any context- in a match to still make your ETH out point. Really makes it seem like your ETH out narrative is more important to you than a Manchester United win.
 
Superb win today. Those subs were pure risk, Fergie style.

At some point we do need to address letting every single team from game 1 this season walk through our midfield, but today is definitely not the day for moans.
 
If he can get the team to show the same spirit and desire for the rest of the season, then in ETH I trust.
 
Sarni said:
He’s probably not the man to bring us back to glory days but today will be a day to remember and will change the way people will look back at his tenure. For me this was better and way more meaningful than the League Cup win and it’s not even close.

It also showed that these tactics can work and we could beat anyone on our day. Could also very well lose to anyone when we are not at it.
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That's the thing i'm not sure about. I like EtH and I want to understand what he's building towards and if it can actually be done. We saw with Klopp and, to a lesser extent Poch with Spurs, play these hyper aggressive pressing systems that required so much intensity to play but it's not been working for us at a sustainable level. I am wondering with the right players if it would be achievable though? Let's say our best team is this:

Onana
Dalot Varane Martinez Shaw
Casemiro Mainoo Bruno
Rashford Hojlund Garnacho​

That's still not a great team for this kind of football in my opinion. Good players obviously but way too many question marks there for me and players that just aren't fit/mobile enough to make it happen (I have no idea how you fit Mount in there either)

It doesn't matter today because it's been a great weekend for us but long term, i wish i had a clear image of how the team will shape up if we're going to continue down this route.
 
AFC NimbleThumb said:
There’s lots to unravel here so I’m going to have to ignore things I’ve explained to you elsewhere, otherwise we’ll be here all day.

If our injuries are mainly in the back line why can the midfield not keep the ball & why is the attack so impotent?

We’ve conceded 39 goals this year in the league which is less than both Villa & Spurs. The problems are actually where we’ve been fitter. . .

It’s hard to not identify an apologist when a poster is making blind excuses.

Who’s saying sit back & counter?

Here we go again, writing war & peace about something people aren’t saying.

Another paragraph about something irrelevant.

So those 2 things don’t correlate.

Points per game are ‘drastically’ worse. In a game where the margin is 0 to 3, .3 is 10%.

Last Season PPG - 1.97
This Season PPG - 1.68

That’s 10% in a game of fine margins.

You throw around terms like Points per game with no context then you talk about injuries again with no context other than ‘more defensive ones’ & when you get challenged on the detail you say this. Good faith indeed.

On more than one occasion you’ve talked about where we ‘would’ be or ‘should’ be had it not been for injuries.

I can’t really elaborate further if you can’t distinguish between discussing what has actually happened this season as opposed to ‘woulda, coulda, shoulda’.

Google generalisation & come back to me.

Considering I’ve had to ask you to clarify multiple points & you’ve turned this discussion into anything but an appraisal of EtH on his merits then yes, your points aren’t landing.

I don’t expect you to have a full memory as judging by your post your memory of EtH only incorporates Jan 2024 to March 2024.

What I do expect is when discussing, in good faith of course, that posters won’t make up things to argue against. There was no insinuation. I’ve literally argued opposite.

Stop telling me what I am insinuating & discuss what I am writing.

What the hell has Moyes got to do with EtH?

Who has said saving managers is simply about Top4?

You keep doing this. Quote me & discuss what is quoted.

I’ve tried multiple times to discuss his performance & you keep bring it back 11 games.

So as you’ve addressed the last 11 games how about addressing the season because last time I checked the January to March 2024 trophy wasn’t a thing any manager has ever been judged on.

Google obligation & then go through multiple occasions where Varane was left out through choice.

I’ve already conceded the defence has been compromised , you seem incapable of accepting anything else into the equation so I’m at a loss as to where we go now cause you’ll come back with more about ‘our defence has had more injuries’ which in turn means we’ve had a healthier midfield/attack, no? Then you’ll harp on about the last 11 games.

I was up for a decent conversation but we’re getting bogged down.
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I agree we are getting bogged down. You seem to reply with bizarre things like "does not correlate" when it's quite simple things to understand. You think things are trending down when in the course of this season they very clearly aren't. Downward trends have bounced back, and he's been able to stabilise form at various points the longest one of which being 2024 thus far.

Anyway I'm no longer the slightest bit bothered, we've just done Liverpool in and are going to Wembley under this manager, again. He must really suck.
 
It's an illness and pointless to be a Utd fan if you're still whinging after that game.

We weren't so good in the second half, lost control, but who cares. It's a cup tie, and we won against a team who is right now much better than us. It was a mad game, simple as that.

Today is not the day for negativity, just enjoy football for fecks sake.
 
Oranges038 said:
Must feel bad not being able to enjoy a win because you want the manager sacked.

Enjoyed that game, started well, totally frustrating for an hour, then the equaliser brought the joy of extra time, frustration again after they scored. But that last half hour was mental, there was no shape structure or tactics and to win it like that in the last minute was just brilliant. Been a long time since I've been through a game with such ups and downs.

Today's not a day to praise of deride ETH, enjoy the game and the win for what it was, stopped them cnuts drooling all over Klopp's shaft and his farewell tour. I don't remember SAF getting such an arse licking in his last few months, the bastards were all delighted to see the back of him. Feck Klopp, and feck everyone else. This was Utd's day and it was beautiful.
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The commentators were so far up Klopps backside that it was vomit inducing. We didn't get half the praise we deserved but the disappointment in everyone was a thing to savour for ages!
 
Stadjer said:
I just think it is incredibly low to post a screenshot of one situation -without any context- in a match to still make your ETH out point. Really makes it seem like your ETH out narrative is more important to you than a Manchester United win.
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Well for some reason the screenshot has triggered you. The previous poster said that no one could possibly criticise Ten Hag today after that win, so I simply shared a screenshot that shows how our team was setup to play against one of the best teams in the league. Does that give the win less value? Does that mean we were absolutely shit? Does that mean I'm unhappy we won? Absolutely no on all counts, but you can't ignore the gaping holes and issues with his tactics. The fact we got control of the game and scored at least 2 of our goals from deep counter positions tells you everything you need to know about how he should be setting up this group of players for the time being, and that my sweet summer child is the entire point.
 
Possibly got us into a 3rd final in 2 seasons. Not bad considering he’s a shite manager.
 
Sandikan said:
That triple sub of Elliott, Bradley and Gahkpo for Szobozo, Robbo and Salah-o was a mad reducer of ability.

Yet Elliott fluked a deflection in, but was also massively caught for the winner.
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Elliott is one of those players who as an opposition fan, I am rarely worried about even when he is in dangerous positions. Yeah he fluked into a goal today, but he also just makes nothing out of so many dangerous opportunities.
 
DJ_21 said:
Which is why I’d like to give him another season. The players are still fighting for him unlike the previous managers… he’s not toxic in interviews. And he’s shown glimpses of good football… just needs to sort out the midfield situation and have us playing a little more compact.
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That plus the injuries plus the lack of any clear available alternative all make me lean towards keeping him unless the season ends in complete shambles. I don't see any obvious upgrades available to us and there is something to be said for having some continuity.
 
Get In Scholesy said:
You are right, and if you remember this in real time, it was Mctominay who was supposed to be tracking back but was too busy pointing instead. Throw any body in that gap and its a well executed defensive transition with one player protecting the back 4. This was a failed assignment by a midfield player - not a tactical set up.
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It was also far from the only time it happened though. One example could be a miscommunication or missed assignment. Less glaring examples occurred a handful of times all with us already up a goal meaning there was no reason for us to put that much risk into it. The level of risk we were taking is only sustainable in short bursts of 15-20 minutes which is why our midfield looked tired 30 minutes into the game. You can't expect Mainoo and McTominay to be regularly making runs into the box and simultaneously be responsible for screening the defense in a high intensity match.

We looked lost from about 35 minutes until the substitutions which he deserves credit for, but the tactics were certainly boom and bust in the first half. It could have paid off if McTominay buried the second chance, but conversely Liverpool could have and should have made much more from their chances.
 
Unless disaster strikes against Coventry this will be ten Hag's third cup final in two seasons and I actually had some fans trying to tell me he's no better than Moyes who took the PL champions to 7th. :lol:
 
Look, whatever we think about his tactics and set up, the development and opportunities given to Mainoo, Garnacho and Hojlund could be invaluable for the club for the next 10 years.
 
mu4c_20le said:
It was at the FT whistle so probably about our chaotic, passion and adrenaline driven football today
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Maybe the "he's a great journalist" fawning can stop now. feck him. He should remember Fergie chasing games with a plethora of strikers.
 
crossy1686 said:
Well for some reason the screenshot has triggered you. The previous poster said that no one could possibly criticise Ten Hag today after that win, so I simply shared a screenshot that shows how our team was setup to play against one of the best teams in the league. Does that give the win less value? Does that mean we were absolutely shit? Does that mean I'm unhappy we won? Absolutely no on all counts, but you can't ignore the gaping holes and issues with his tactics. The fact we got control of the game and scored at least 2 of our goals from deep counter positions tells you everything you need to know about how he should be setting up this group of players for the time being, and that my sweet summer child is the entire point.
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Funny thing is that I saw this gap in live, and something like 2min later Liverpool had a similar gap in their midfield which allowed Garnacho to run diagonally unchallenged.

If you watch regularly other teams, most of them are playing this high risk high reward kind of football with huge gaps in behind.
Main difference is in the ability of their defenders to defend on the front foot whereas our defenders are not comfortable doing so and will back up, this increasing the gaps between defence and midfield.

It’s a recurring theme with Ten Hag and can be very frustrating to watch, but he chose to continue with it until he has the right personnel for this kind of football.
Rightly or wrongly I don’t know
 
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