Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24

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There are plenty of legitimate reasons to criticise ETH for but this bit is silly. Haller was very successful for him, Ajax and their budget. ETH's next permanent striker big purchase was Hojlund, who looks very promising. Does that say anything about 'which category of manager' he belongs to? Nope.
I wasn't saying this out of thin air. The poster I was replying to was comparinf Haaland with Haller and tenhag with Guardiola and Klopp.
 
I don't think I've ever claimed to be a neutral mediator - I'm a Gooner who thinks ETH is doing poor job managing United. As an Arsenal fan who grew up watching SAF and Wenger do battle, United and Spurs were the first fixtures I looked for on the fixture list. I've always respected United as a club and RedCafe as a forum - particularly it's welcoming of rival fans.

And if there is one thing I don't think I can be honestly accused of, it's quoting out of context. If anything, I would have thought it's the opposite - my posts are often too long and detailed with too many quotes.

You're right, I don't have that much to say to those who think ETH is primarily responsible for how United play. That seems to be the majority opinion and I happen to agree with it. If someone expresses that they think the buck stops with the Manager (particularly one that has said that's the case to the press) then there isn't really much to discuss. Naturally, I have far more questions for those with other views. If that comes across badly, I'm genuinely sorry.

You seem intent on policing this thread and this discussion has become very strange. Shall we agree to draw a line under it?

On the point of me "policing this thread" that's not been my intention, but I can see how it looks that way. As I explained to you previously, I find it incredibly frustrating that this thread is full of circular debates about transfers and injuries, when I don't think either are particularly pertinent issues when assessing Ten Hag's tenure as manager. At most, they're mitigating factors that should be used in the context of other issues.

Any discussion of tactics, the specifics of Antony's output and place in the side, the whole Varane at left centre-back debacle, etc. are all lost in the incessant cycle of:

"He's spent £400 million."

"The club spent £400 million."

"He wanted control of transfers."

"He shouldn't have full control of transfers."

"I never said he had full control of transfers but he's spent £400 million."

"The club spent £400 million."

and/or

"We don't dominate games."

"We've had loads of injuries."

"So have other clubs."

"Not as bad as us."

"Some clubs have."

"They're below us in the table."

Repeat ad infinitum.

You say that you "don't have that much to say to those who think ETH is primarily responsible for how United play" but the reason I've called you out is precisely because these aren't the discussions you start or involve yourself in. They've been the two I've paraphrased above and, to me, it's come across as pot stirring.

However, even if just to draw a line under this particular discussion, I'll take your word that you've come here in good faith and just found yourself embroiled in the constant cycle of nonsense (because god knows I have). There are people on both sides who've wedded themselves to daft lines of argument, but as a United fan, I can at least sympathise with those who have a semblance of faith in the manager, because it's at least rooted in positivity. A lot on the other side nailed their colours to the "sack him" mast far too early for me to trust them not to do the same if we don't look like title challengers within a season or two with a new manager.
 
Are you in an argumentative mood, or something? I said in that quote you posted that he doesn't have total control. I can't tell if you're being willfully obtuse due to your fixation on defending your initial argument or because you are genuinely struggling to grasp (or don't even want to consider) an alternative perspective. It's tiring, either way, so I'll leave ye to it.

The fact every avenue circles back to it all being Murtough's fault says it all. I reckon both are to blame and both should be removed from their positons.
We're talking past each other here I think. My initial response to you was on why EtH allowed the Casemiro transfer then you brought up the EtH quotes regarding transfer control.

Anyways I agree that both EtH and Murtough should be sacked so we can leave it there.
 
I wasn't saying this out of thin air. The poster I was replying to was comparinf Haaland with Haller and tenhag with Guardiola and Klopp.

I think you may need to read the post you quoted again. Besides, ETH had Tadic and our own VDB playing false 9. Ajax fans can probably provide more context but given he had those two, Haller and I think Brobbey for a period of time playing as the further forward, there's not much to deduct other than he was pragmatic and used whoever he had available.

Again ETH deserves a lot of criticism but to say 'ETH used Haller = lower tier manager' is bit of a lazy reach.
 
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Two of ETH's new buys this season started off poorly but have come to life over the last two months. ETH's great buys last season have had issues this season. Two of ETH's buys, one this season and one last season, are dubious at best.

Imagine a universe in which all of ETH's buys performed as expected. Had that been the case, there would be no discussion of sacking him.
 
On the point of me "policing this thread" that's not been my intention, but I can see how it looks that way. As I explained to you previously, I find it incredibly frustrating that this thread is full of circular debates about transfers and injuries, when I don't think either are particularly pertinent issues when assessing Ten Hag's tenure as manager. At most, they're mitigating factors that should be used in the context of other issues.

Any discussion of tactics, the specifics of Antony's output and place in the side, the whole Varane at left centre-back debacle, etc. are all lost in the incessant cycle of:



and/or



Repeat ad infinitum.

You say that you "don't have that much to say to those who think ETH is primarily responsible for how United play" but the reason I've called you out is precisely because these aren't the discussions you start or involve yourself in. They've been the two I've paraphrased above and, to me, it's come across as pot stirring.

However, even if just to draw a line under this particular discussion, I'll take your word that you've come here in good faith and just found yourself embroiled in the constant cycle of nonsense (because god knows I have). There are people on both sides who've wedded themselves to daft lines of argument, but as a United fan, I can at least sympathise with those who have a semblance of faith in the manager, because it's at least rooted in positivity. A lot on the other side nailed their colours to the "sack him" mast far too early for me to trust them not to do the same if we don't look like title challengers within a season or two with a new manager.
That’s totally fair enough and you’re right, it has become a thread of people talking past each other.

Also, the main reason I’m here instead of Arsenal Mania is because our fanbase splits into In/Out debates with any minor dip in form. Therefore, I completely sympathise with anyone who feels their call for a bit of patience with their Manager is falling on deaf ears.
 
28 games into the season and Erik Ten Hags Manchester United have scored less league goals than Rob Edwards Luton Town…
 
So last season he wasn't better than Rangnick how exactly. He had a new manager purple patch bounce after a difficult start? He was bouncing into two finals by accident? Or he churned out results to stabilise in 2024? Which bit is worse than Rangnick?

Im all for people slating style of play and being tired of how we let in shots on goal, but let's not outright rewrite history while we are frustrated.

I mean objectively speaking on results that's wrong. 8 wins and one draw out of 11 is actually very good, not OK.

You disagreed to this original post.

His football has been comfortably worse than Rangnick this season. Even Ralf had that little run where we looked solid.

No. Just no.

The original point was the above. I was merely pointing out that actually Rangnick started off very well. He wasn't a total disaster at all. He actually has the same length of unbeaten run in the league than ETH has managed in his time here (6 games). Was he much worse than ETH has managed this season?

Manager​
Win Ratio​
Loss Ratio​
CS​
Games​
W​
D​
L​
GF​
GA​
GD​
Pts​
Pts PG​
Ten Hag​
53.57%​
39.29%​
8​
28​
15​
2​
11​
39​
39​
0​
47​
1.68​
Rangnick​
41.67%​
29.17%​
6​
24​
10​
7​
7​
33​
33​
0​
37​
1.54​
It's better than Rangnick but not by a great deal and Rangnick had no money to spend to change the team. Both have abysmal goal difference, both lost way too many games and the points per game stat aren't too dissimilar. Don't think it was a far fetched claim at all. The fact that Rangnicks and ETH's stats are comparable when the squad totally jacked it in with 9 games to go for Rangnick says it all really. It's been such a bad season this year, the only redeeming flicker of positivity I can muster is the emergence of Mainoo.
 
That’s totally fair enough and you’re right, it has become a thread of people talking past each other.

Also, the main reason I’m here instead of Arsenal Mania is because our fanbase splits into In/Out debates with any minor dip in form. Therefore, I completely sympathise with anyone who feels their call for a bit of patience with their Manager is falling on deaf ears.

All fans will have varying levels of patience though. If you watch your team play and you're shit then you brush it off as a bad day in the office after the initial moaning. A few weeks of bad performances and you start to get irritated. But it's been a full year. So how long do you give a Manager? How many PL Games do you give them before you want to see actual progress. 20? 30? 40? 50?

Our fanbase is patient, the moaning only really began to mount up in December when we got pushed out of the CL in the group stages and we've been rubbish in the League since March 23.
 
28 games into the season and Erik Ten Hags Manchester United have scored less league goals than Rob Edwards Luton Town…

You can’t possibly expect a Manchester United team with the 6th worse injury record in the league to outscore Luton town. Ridiculous expectations.
 
Did you not read what I said? Me and majority of “ETH out” people all agree that we also need a good amount of fresh players. I’m even on the extreme part of that scale with being fully onboard with a full clean out of the club (I literally have a thread on it on here )
So we spend a large part of last year laughing at Chelsea spending hundreds of millions stock pilling random players on crazy long contracts, we mocked when Potter was sacked and Lampard came back as caretaker, we are smug and self righteous about them getting Poch and watch him struggle to clean up Boehlys shitstorm and ridicule there lowly league position yet this summer we seem to want our club to jump in 2 feet first and repeat these same mistakes.

Can you imagine the absolutely epic meltdown if we rocked up in 10th or lower next season, millions spent on players and a new manager in place?

It’s not wise to replace vast swathes of our playing squad and the managerial/coaching staff and the club hierarchy all in one go. As Sir Jim said himself, we need to walk to the right solutions and as such need to drop all this impatience and steel ourselves for the hard yards. We are a club that has been in decline and transition continually for the last 11 years, that won’t be fixed immediately.
 
If they don't lead to shots, they're not good attacks. Another interesting thing is that the current top-five + Brighton (often praised for their quality of their football) have registered the most shots from open play. So, while we're searching for the elusive perfect counter, the better game plans out there actually lead to more (and better) shots. The lower you go to the table, the fewer the shots. This is the biggest misconception about xG, especially when it comes to strikers. Over time, it all balances out (unless you're Messi), and the great forwards (like Ronaldo and Lewa) are the ones who manage to accumulate an impressively high xG.

But that's half the story. Last season, United had more shots from open play than anyone. The xG/Sh (0.13) was just below average, but we massively underperformed our xG. This season, not only we struggle to manufacture shots, our xG/Sh (0.11) has also nosedived way below average (0.14). These aren't the signs of a team that's trying and failing, they are the signs of a team that's simply failing.

Even at our best under ETH, we never looked like a particularly refined or subtle unit in the final third.
We have one striker, who had to get bedded in and wasn‘t scoring: that will depress those numbers.

I don‘t have a problem with less shots created, as long as we create high quality chances.

A counter attack that doesn‘t lead to a shot could still be a situation that has a high probability of a goal. Creating shots is the wrong way to think about it: we need to create situations that have a high chance to lead to a goal, not a shot.

4 big chances created is better than creating 30 low probability shots.

If we start taking better care of the ball, all this will right itself. We will concede less shots and create more ourselves.
 
Two of ETH's new buys this season started off poorly but have come to life over the last two months. ETH's great buys last season have had issues this season. Two of ETH's buys, one this season and one last season, are dubious at best.

Imagine a universe in which all of ETH's buys performed as expected. Had that been the case, there would be no discussion of sacking him.
In that universe you could say the same for every manager. If ll their players worke out we would have a few league titles in the bag since Fergie.
 
You can’t possibly expect a Manchester United team with the 6th worse injury record in the league to outscore Luton town. Ridiculous expectations.
Zero fit strikers for large parts of the season, and 24 different starting back 4 combinations. We’ve also had a long period without our best midfield. The team has had no continuity and therefore no opportunity to build relationships on the pitch and learn patterns of play together.
Drop the smarmy sarcasm act and look closer at the context of all that’s gone on this season.
 
He showed a lot more cojones in his first season compared to now, wonder what happened.
 
I think you may need to read the post you quoted again. Besides, ETH had Tadic and our own VDB playing false 9. Ajax fans can probably provide more context but given he had those two, Haller and I think Brobbey for a period of time playing as the further forward, there's not much to deduct other than he was pragmatic and used whoever he had available.

Again ETH deserves a lot of criticism but to say 'ETH used Haller = lower tier manager' is bit of a lazy reach.
That last bit is indeed a baffling take. Haller tore up the CL group stage, I believe he was topscorer. He simply was outstanding for Ten Hag, as was Van De Beek. Tadic and Daley Blind as well.

They all made top teams in Europe look like wet wipes.

Now he has Scott McTominay. But it looks like if Højlund will stay fit he will score lots of goals for Ten Hag.
 
If the new manager who comes in is promised that players will be sold(including big names) then it can work. But so far we have seen that the new manager always gives player a clean slate. He wouldn't last long after that.

Yeah we need to see some big names sold like Bruno & Rashford,however think the extent of big names will be Sancho, Varane & Casemiro this summer which is a start I guess
 
28 games into the season and Erik Ten Hags Manchester United have scored less league goals than Rob Edwards Luton Town…
12 in xG, 14th in xG conceded, 12th in expected points, 15th in goals scored, somehow only 4th in goals conceded (more luck than skill that one given the other stats), 9th in goal differential... 6th in the table of course is what's recorded. But I guess a goal difference of 0 and being 6th is seen as fine these days.
 
Didn't we break a record for shot attempts vs Chelsea last december? One of the reasons I keep backing Ten Hag is that under him United haven't showed this much sophisticated attacks since SAF stepped down. It looks much more intelligent than the aimless crosses under Moyes.

Regarding the transfers: of course a top manager, incoming and all, demands say and veto over who the clubs advisors say should be brought in, or considered.
With a big club like United you expect a top 4 list for every position, well scouted and all.

Then a meeting comes where decisions are made about who to enter negotiations. Who to go for if everything fails. What to do on deadline day if aimed targets fail. The end negotiations are not done by Ten Hag.

The financial limits should be made by someone else. Even if Ten Hag can make a veto over who he wants in, it should never be his end decision financial wise. Except maybe the Kane transfer. Not pursuing that was one of the most stupid decisions by the Glazers ever made. A chance to buy him, even a remote chance, such a high class striker, comes every few years. Not every year. Buying him would have made a huge difference on the 23/24 season and also the club's worth. Maybe the Glazers shot themselves in the foot by hundreds of millions by choosing not to make Levy an offer he could not refuse.

The INEOS public claims and various technical management recruitments - Ratcliffe saying how Ten Hag had to report straight to the CEO, tells you that there was much improvement to be made. Also, that Ten Hag does not bear the blame for mistakes like Antony. Maybe Casemiro was too expensive as well but imo without him we would never ended 3rd in 22/23 and also the last 2 months, even if he gets older, he is an improvement over what we have and had. Fred is never a DM.

They shot themselves in the foot over Kane by not having the money to go all in,due to the fact we frittered it away on Mount & Antony. What would it take for you to join many of us on the Erik out train just out of interest?
 
Yeah we need to see some big names sold like Bruno & Rashford,however think the extent of big names will be Sancho, Varane & Casemiro this summer which is a start I guess
Not at all. Sancho nobody gives a shit about. Varane and Casemiro will be sold because of the money they are getting.

We have to sell overpaid underperformers like Rashford and others to make funds available and semlnd message across the dressing room that trash performances arent accepted.
 
12 in xG, 14th in xG conceded, 12th in expected points, 15th in goals scored, somehow only 4th in goals conceded (more luck than skill that one given the other stats), 9th in goal differential... 6th in the table of course is what's recorded. But I guess a goal difference of 0 and being 6th is seen as fine these days.
6th is flattering. We have absolutely zero desire and perhaps ability to dominate games and win convincingly. Team and manager share the blame for me but ETH needs a plan or he will be ushered out soon.
 
28 games into the season and Erik Ten Hags Manchester United have scored less league goals than Rob Edwards Luton Town…


..and yet EtH got us 26 more points than Luton! Going by your logic, EtH is a genius!

They shot themselves in the foot over Kane by not having the money to go all in,due to the fact we frittered it away on Mount & Antony. What would it take for you to join many of us on the Erik out train just out of interest?

The way I read it EtH got put to a choice: either Hojlund and Mount and a new keeper, or just Kane. After a season of overdelivery by EtH, he got shackled again on a squad that needed and still needs a huge overhaul. A limit of what, 140 mill was and is crazy. It's why we are a top 6 side at best. It's even more crazy when you think strikers, 30+ a season strikers like Kane arent available at all most of the time.

I'm on the Erik out train if he gets to Ole stats, 8 played and 5 losses with horror games and no prospect.

As it is, its 8 played, 5 wins, 2 losses, with flashes of great attacking play. The results are there. I get the criticism on his tactics for midfield but that is a result of the style we play and the many players we don't have. You want more midfield, get Allardyce and actual better midfield players. Also, we are not a top 4 side yet. Why do like Everton, hire big blow managers when you don't have a big blow squad? I think EtH has good prospect to grow as a top 4, a prize winning coach for United. In fact, in his first season he got us already one.

On top of that he is a good player manager. That same bunch under Ole did nothing while under EtH, Maguire, Rashford (last season) McTominay, Fred (at times), Dalot found incredible form. Garnacho was a young chicken fighting with Pelistri but look at him now. Mainoo is a great prospect. Going for an Onana type keeper was the right move and he starts to deliver. Hojlund had many doubters including me but now he is a record breaking striker.

Then I think that EtH learns and keeps 86 million Antony out for weeks now; he isn't too big to see at this moment Antony isn't delivering what he supposed to (EtH has said that quite a few times now).

We are not top 4 but after 28 played we are on top of a lot of good teams like Chelsea, Newcastle too. I also thought (and think) that United lacks a top class structure to support its manager, something INEOS seems also to have concluded. We need new technical managers, top class, and then judge EtH.

Also, a manager change now can only be disruptive. We won't get top 4 so why change now. If you want Erik out, do it this summer and not now. But at this moment I'm not on the Erik out train just yet. I'm still on the Erik is good for United train on a long term project.
 
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If we get good offers that allow us to rebuild better everyone bar three can be sold...

Mainoo, Garnacho, Hojland

This is doubly true for anyone who counts as an academy player. Really see Greenwood, McT, Rashford going just to easy the cashflow situation FFP wise.

Given his age and his diminishing returns it would probably make sense to listen to offers for Bruno too.
 
It's kind of crazy to think that barring the odd spell here-and-there, we've been served with soul destroying football for a decade now.
 
6th is flattering. We have absolutely zero desire and perhaps ability to dominate games and win convincingly. Team and manager share the blame for me but ETH needs a plan or he will be ushered out soon.
It's extremely flattering. There have been many games where we were second best but still got points, while I struggle to think of any games we lost where we would have felt disappointed about result but not performance. Basically all our defeats have been quite resounding and deserved while wins largely haven't.

It will eventually regress back to the mean, teams can outperform their xG, xPTS, xGA for a year but it will eventually be what it should be.
 
It's kind of crazy to think that barring the odd spell here-and-there, we've been served with soul destroying football for a decade now.

Quite agree. It is some time since I got really excited about one of our performances.
There may have been been the odd one or two. But our inconsistency is such that the next game robs the joy of watching our team.
 
..and yet EtH got us 26 more points than Luton! Going by your logic, EtH is a genius!



The way I read it EtH got put to a choice: either Hojlund and Mount and a new keeper, or just Kane. After a season of overdelivery by EtH, he got shackled again on a squad that needed and still needs a huge overhaul. A limit of what, 140 mill was and is crazy. It's why we are a top 6 side at best. It's even more crazy when you think strikers, 30+ a season strikers like Kane arent available at all most of the time.

I'm on the Erik out train if he gets to Ole stats, 8 played and 5 losses with horror games and no prospect.

As it is, its 8 played, 5 wins, 2 losses, with flashes of great attacking play. The results are there. I get the criticism on his tactics for midfield but that is a result of the style we play and the many players we don't have. You want more midfield, get Allardyce and actual better midfield players. Also, we are not a top 4 side yet. Why do like Everton, hire big blow managers when you don't have a big blow squad? I think EtH has good prospect to grow as a top 4, a prize winning coach for United. In fact, in his first season he got us already one.

On top of that he is a good player manager. That same bunch under Ole did nothing while under EtH, Maguire, Rashford (last season) McTominay, Fred (at times), Dalot found incredible form. Garnacho was a young chicken fighting with Pelistri but look at him now. Mainoo is a great prospect. Going for an Onana type keeper was the right move and he starts to deliver. Hojlund had many doubters including me but now he is a record breaking striker.

Then I think that EtH learns and keeps 86 million Antony out for weeks now; he isn't too big to see at this moment Antony isn't delivering what he supposed to (EtH has said that quite a few times now).

We are not top 4 but after 28 played we are on top of a lot of good teams like Chelsea, Newcastle too. I also thought (and think) that United lacks a top class structure to support its manager, something INEOS seems also to have concluded. We need new technical managers, top class, and then judge EtH.

Also, a manager change now can only be disruptive. We won't get top 4 so why change now. If you want Erik out, do it this summer and not now. But at this moment I'm not on the Erik out train just yet. I'm still on the Erik is good for United train on a long term project.

What? They finished top 3 twice under Ole, playing at a higher level than what we've seen this year and a pretty similar level to what we showed last year (yeah, I know, the mighty 1 point more and a cup we won't name because we all know it's the least important trophy we can win).

If anything, it's actually concerning that ETH has hardly improved any of the players we had prior to him joining (Dalot aside, but he was 19-21 in those seasons so it's hard to compare).
 
This problem has been going on since SAF. We got the first appt disastrously wrong, more to me that the players thought they deserved a bigger name manager, Moyes also made a lot of mistakes and would not listen to any advise given by people more qualified about knowing the squad, potential signing etc for such a . It has got worse and worse by each manager who has come in. A few trophies covering over the cracks. The higher ups have let the players decide who they fancy playing for and when. They have signed players for headlines rather than building a squad for the future. Until someone gets hold of the last situation it won't change. ETH is showing lack of tactical flexibility, but is that due to the squad and it inadequacies or him in general. Do we give him a chance with a better structure?
 
What? They finished top 3 twice under Ole, playing at a higher level than what we've seen this year and a pretty similar level to what we showed last year (yeah, I know, the mighty 1 point more and a cup we won't name because we all know it's the least important trophy we can win).

If anything, it's actually concerning that ETH has hardly improved any of the players we had prior to him joining (Dalot aside, but he was 19-21 in those seasons so it's hard to compare).
If Ole had to field 20something different back four combinations in 30 odd games with Martial essentially crocked and Hojlund unavailable for 40% of the PL games, I genuinely think he'd have us midtable.
 
He showed a lot more cojones in his first season compared to now, wonder what happened.
Beleaguered by the negative stats? It's hard to push your message when you're conceding 22 shots a game, it's easy to give it billy big bollocks when you're winning. I think he also doesn't believe the stuff he's saying in press conferences but he's terrified of losing the players.
 
If Ole had to field 20something different back four combinations in 30 odd games with Martial essentially crocked and Hojlund unavailable for 40% of the PL games, I genuinely think he'd have us midtable.
Perhaps. But I think it’s still hard to make an argument for players improving in masses over the last 18 months. It’s not even a dig at ETH, this may genuinely be their level.
 
Perhaps. But I think it’s still hard to make an argument for players improving in masses over the last 18 months. It’s not even a dig at ETH, this may genuinely be their level.
Yeah, that's very true.
 
This problem has been going on since SAF. We got the first appt disastrously wrong, more to me that the players thought they deserved a bigger name manager, Moyes also made a lot of mistakes and would not listen to any advise given by people more qualified about knowing the squad, potential signing etc for such a . It has got worse and worse by each manager who has come in. A few trophies covering over the cracks. The higher ups have let the players decide who they fancy playing for and when. They have signed players for headlines rather than building a squad for the future. Until someone gets hold of the last situation it won't change. ETH is showing lack of tactical flexibility, but is that due to the squad and it inadequacies or him in general. Do we give him a chance with a better structure?

The biggest problem with Moyes is that he dismantled the entire back office coaching staff, getting rid of many coaches that had been there under Ferguson, and brought his own Everton staff aboard. A renowned coach bringing his staff to work with is normal, but it was David Moyes coming from Everton, we can't try to operate at their level nor was it wise to make such significant moves in his first big job at the very beginning.
 
I can on
If Ole had to field 20something different back four combinations in 30 odd games with Martial essentially crocked and Hojlund unavailable for 40% of the PL games, I genuinely think he'd have us midtable.
Maybe, but then maybe not, pure conjecture and supposition, there are significant multiple differences to the squads, the back room and all of the other teams in the league, add in covid.

You can strip everything else away, the only thing of relevance to judge ETH on (or any other manager) is a that manager has to utilise the players they have have to the best of their abilities, minimising exposing their weaknesses, you cannot judge a manager on the players they do not have or would ideally sign..... IMO ETH has failed in this, he has failed to play his most cohesive 11, and has significantly exposed the weaknesses of his team to the opposition.
 
IMO ETH has failed in this, he has failed to play his most cohesive 11, and has significantly exposed the weaknesses of his team to the opposition.
He can't play a cohesive 11 if his defence is made of jelly.
 
He can't play a cohesive 11 if his defence is made of jelly.
I really do not know why I would enter into further discourse with you mate as you will defend ETH irrespective of anything, especially like people who selectively quote part of a post, tells you all you need to know, focus on one thing and you can ignore everything else, noice!

But glutton for punishment that I am, are you asserting that ETH could NOT have modified his team selection and/or tactics to better utilise the players he had at his disposal..... you completely ignore my point that a manager has to manage what he has, making excuses for failure to do this is blindly ignoring what has occurred.

And we may not like every player we have, sure there are faults, but by in large they are regular full international players, who if they were to leave Utd would still be playing 1st 11 football in Europe's top leagues, ETH has not had to cope with Championship players and kids, he has just had players that do not meet his tactical profile
 
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