Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24

[Redstain]

By that statement the he is just not good enough, this is Manchester United we should not be making excuses for managers, players, the structure, the backroom or the owners

I think it's been discernable for quite a while that Erik doesn't come across as a manager that's capable of winning major honours in an environment as combative as the prem is.

There's not enough in his ideas, philosophy and instructions to cause a separation or distinction between the absolute best and the rest. Even with a fully fit squad in the previous season I don't think it was demonstrable and by the managers own admission the team overperformed.

As it stands the manager is in a very different class to the current leagues best and it won't change for the foreseeable. We can use stats to compare managerial starts etc but some things in life are intangible, the same way scouts can assess the potential of a player it's largely based off instinct and judgement. It's why someone like Sir Alex said that before Klopp managed a single game for Liverpool, they would win the league under his supervision. That's what's lacking with the present manager he has a ceiling.

 

[Oranges038]

Funnily enough Guardiola's style is massively influenced by Cruyff's Barca legacy. Cruyff set the basic playing style at the club and although it evolved they never really moved away from it. So I have a hard time claiming that the "Dutch style" just doesn't work when a variation of it clearly does. But maybe that's the point - it has to be a variation, not the pure unaltered form. But than, EtH doesn't play that any way, he actually made Ajax more direct and less possession based then they were before him for example. So I don't think you can really pin that all down to nationality, but it's definitely curious that the PL is the only big league that was never won by a domestic manager.

The problem here is that it's all just too slow, De Boer was the same at Palace, he was the same at Inter, LVG had Utd playing at a walking pace.

My thoughts are that the Eredivisie is quite a slow league, which is partly why a lot of players have come from there and failed in England. Technically it's a different style, but in the PL to be successful you really have to be faster technically and physically as a team.

Pep's game while based on those ideals is much faster and more fluid. The ball moves quicker, he uses this quicker ball movement to drag teams to one side to create overloads on the other. Being able to change the speed of play is crucial, his teams will go from walking pace to break neck speed in one or two movements. The quality of passing is also huge factor, the speed, the weight of pass, always to the players right side etc. All that stuff makes a huge difference when done at pace, especially with players not having to break stride or check movements.

ETH has come directly from Eredivisie, a slower paced league, with him on the ball Utd are too slow, ponderous and too sloppy. Players don't contribute to creating good angles and off the ball movement seems like an afterthought. Rather than creating space by movement, players often look like they are waiting for someone else to do it or just don't know where to go, like they've forgotten the instructions on where to be. It can be very predictable, particularly with that lone player in the middle behind the attack. But then you also have players like Casemiro, Bruno, Rashford and Garnacho who can be very erratic in possession of the ball. I don't think a rigid systematic approach works when you have players like that in key attacking areas. Which brings you back to why he brought in Antony.

Now at Utd maybe he doesn't have players who are technically capable of playing at a higher intensity with the ball, the ball control and passing levels in 1 and 2 touch phases just isn't good enough. When Utd try to up the tempo, too often passes are to the players wrong side, behind them or up at their knee. Which is where it breaks down a lot in attacking areas and they get hit on the counter. And that's when you have the issue of that lack of pace in defence getting exposed.


Anyway, those are my thoughts, too slow and ponderous in the build up, which allows teams get setup and are harder to break down. And too sloppy and careless when trying to up the tempo, which leads to the lack of pace in midfield and defence getting exposed.

 

[Mr Pigeon]

Maybe. But Amrabat was only a last minute signing as we had no funds. And Weghorst contributed the square root of zero. If your happy with these sorts of players at United then fine.

I think that as fans we can sometime get a bit carried away and say things to fellow supporters that are a bit rude. It's my hope that you will calm down a bit and oh wait you've been banned Iol oh well never mind Iol

 

[Valencia Shin Crosses]

Antony - yes looking a poor signing and nowhere near worth the fee.
Weghorst - an emergency loan signing who wasn’t particularly good, but still contributed at times.
Malacia - Good attitude and at times last season played pretty well. Very unfortunate that he has been injured all season and that’s nothing to do with the manager. I don’t ultimately think he will be good enough as a starter but for the low fee, he’s a decent backup signing.
Onana - getting rid of De Gea is one of the best things Ten Hag has done for this club and despite all the criticism Onana has been an upgrade. Performances are picking up and he could easily play in a top side.
Mount - I have never fully been behind the transfer because I didn’t think he’s what we needed, but he’s clearly a better player than many make out. Again been injured nearly all season so very much a case of we cannot fully judge him in a Utd shirt yet and could yet prove a great signing.
Amrabat - Another last minute loan deal. He’s clearly a good player and exactly as advertised is brilliant at getting on the ball. He’s been vital squad cover at CM and LB. I personally would be happy to sign him for a low fee as he’s versatile.

I think there’s plenty of legitimate concern with Ten Hag mainly routed around our poor playing style and lack of control over games. I don’t think we need to start over exaggerating his signings when they are still far from our biggest problem players. All that being said, I’m hoping now the club is more competently run, we should be taking recruitment above the manager and just giving him input, rather than full control.

Saying Weghorst "wasn't particularly good" is one of the biggest understatements I've read on the Cafe

 

[mu4c_20le]

 

[cpresc]

Question to any Dutch speaking fans out there..

does EtH speak the same way in Dutch as he does in English? Just trying to figure out if it’s his manner or his lack of English native tongue

 

[miliebrowndivorceattorney]

To be honest I'm just thinking the Dutch style of play/coaching doesn't translate well to the English game. Is it too slow? Is it overly complicated? Or does he just lack the personnel? I don't know.

I remember LvG in the 90s, saying how he loved playing against ''English teams. All they do is play with 5 at the back and long balls to the forwards. They (the English) invented football but you can see it was a long time ago". How times have changed! These days the Dutch eredivisie is indeed so slow its sleep inducing. The Dutch nationals are lacking a lot of quality. I do think Feyenoords manager Slot is one to go places, was a top candidate instead of Postecoglu at Spurs. Bosz is doing great record breaking work at PSV and Ten Hag did open up a lot of eyes in the champions league.

Been watching some tactical analysis of recent games and its amateur hour at best. Even in the games we win we're conceding chances on the same level as Sheff United who are statistically one of the worst ever PL sides. Midfield absolutely wide open, pressing whilst the defence is in a low block it's primary school stuff.

We're tactically one of the worst sides in the league and it's not even close.

You'd love the stats around Ten Hags Ajax playing away against Real Madrid in the CL 2018/2019. Ajax won 1-4 but here is a similar stat with today's United: they had 20 changes against by Madrid.

Also funny or remarkable. Ajax won with Onana in goal and Van de Beek in midfield. Madrid played with Varane as centre back, Reguilon as left back and Casemiro as DM.

https://www.uefa.com/uefachampionsleague/match/2026853--real-madrid-vs-ajax/

Saying Weghorst "wasn't particularly good" is one of the biggest understatements I've read on the Cafe

Come on. Weghorst failed to score but was instrumental in a lot of games as the muscle, the physical man. He ran more in one game than Rashford did all of this season. On top of that Gakpo was the man Ten Hag wanted, but Weghorst is what he got instead. Weghorst fought for the badge and many including me, loved him for the effort.

 

[mav_9me]

Clickbait tweet. He is saying he likes Oles plan of defend and counter better than ETHs team which gets countered on a lot. At least in that clip he does not say ETH does not have a plan.

I respect and agree with those who say ETH plan isn't working. But it would be wrong to say there is no plan.

 

[Alex99]

Saying Weghorst "wasn't particularly good" is one of the biggest understatements I've read on the Cafe

To be fair, it's hard to criticise a bloke who knew he was here for a good time, and not a long time, but still busted a bollock every time he played.

You could tell he really wanted to make a difference, it's just unfortunate he was so shit.

 

[sparx99]

The problem here is that it's all just too slow, De Boer was the same at Palace, he was the same at Inter, LVG had Utd playing at a walking pace.

My thoughts are that the Eredivisie is quite a slow league, which is partly why a lot of players have come from there and failed in England. Technically it's a different style, but in the PL to be successful you really have to be faster technically and physically as a team.

Pep's game while based on those ideals is much faster and more fluid. The ball moves quicker, he uses this quicker ball movement to drag teams to one side to create overloads on the other. Being able to change the speed of play is crucial, his teams will go from walking pace to break neck speed in one or two movements. The quality of passing is also huge factor, the speed, the weight of pass, always to the players right side etc. All that stuff makes a huge difference when done at pace, especially with players not having to break stride or check movements.

ETH has come directly from Eredivisie, a slower paced league, with him on the ball Utd are too slow, ponderous and too sloppy. Players don't contribute to creating good angles and off the ball movement seems like an afterthought. Rather than creating space by movement, players often look like they are waiting for someone else to do it or just don't know where to go, like they've forgotten the instructions on where to be. It can be very predictable, particularly with that lone player in the middle behind the attack. But then you also have players like Casemiro, Bruno, Rashford and Garnacho who can be very erratic in possession of the ball. I don't think a rigid systematic approach works when you have players like that in key attacking areas. Which brings you back to why he brought in Antony.

Now at Utd maybe he doesn't have players who are technically capable of playing at a higher intensity with the ball, the ball control and passing levels in 1 and 2 touch phases just isn't good enough. When Utd try to up the tempo, too often passes are to the players wrong side, behind them or up at their knee. Which is where it breaks down a lot in attacking areas and they get hit on the counter. And that's when you have the issue of that lack of pace in defence getting exposed.


Anyway, those are my thoughts, too slow and ponderous in the build up, which allows teams get setup and are harder to break down. And too sloppy and careless when trying to up the tempo, which leads to the lack of pace in midfield and defence getting exposed.

I’d actually say the complete opposite to a lot of this. We give up the ball way too often by trying to force something to happen. Bruno & Casemiro are particularly guilty of this.

Even in transition moments our attackers often mess it up by playing the pass too quickly rather than drawing a defender and then playing it to their teammate (or being greedy and just shooting themselves).

Regardless, our problems haven’t tended to be from playing too slowly. It’s been from not taking care of the ball. We play risky passes and then find ourselves having to defend with a lack of numbers as too many attackers have flooded forward.

 

[Oranges038]

I’d actually say the complete opposite to a lot of this. We give up the ball way too often by trying to force something to happen. Bruno & Casemiro are particularly guilty of this.

Even in transition moments our attackers often mess it up by playing the pass too quickly rather than drawing a defender and then playing it to their teammate (or being greedy and just shooting themselves).

Regardless, our problems haven’t tended to be from playing too slowly. It’s been from not taking care of the ball. We play risky passes and then find ourselves having to defend with a lack of numbers as too many attackers have flooded forward.

I'm not sure anything you've posted here is much different to what I've said aside from it being slow. Moving the ball from back to front is too slow, that's why Martinez has been key, because of how he just fires it through the lines to feet.

The players just move forward into their instructed positions, when it gets up there, there are just too many players who are sloppy with their passing and erratic in possession. If you're going to commit bodies forward, you just cannot give the ball up as cheaply as this lot do. Like I posted above, once the pace of play is needed to be switched up, the passes become sloppy, behind, the wrong side, up at knees.

When it's lost, those players ahead are already committed and the players left behind are too slow to deal with the counters. Which is why they get over run by powerful runners and straight passes.

 

[Alex99]

I’d actually say the complete opposite to a lot of this. We give up the ball way too often by trying to force something to happen. Bruno & Casemiro are particularly guilty of this.

Even in transition moments our attackers often mess it up by playing the pass too quickly rather than drawing a defender and then playing it to their teammate (or being greedy and just shooting themselves).

Regardless, our problems haven’t tended to be from playing too slowly. It’s been from not taking care of the ball. We play risky passes and then find ourselves having to defend with a lack of numbers as too many attackers have flooded forward.

That's in the post you've quoted, to be fair.

We are very slow with the ball a lot of the time, which makes us blunt in attack, and @Oranges038 has pointed out that we're very sloppy when we do try and speed things up in an attempt to force something to happen.

 

[Valencia Shin Crosses]

Come on. Weghorst failed to score but was instrumental in a lot of games as the muscle, the physical man. He ran more in one game than Rashford did all of this season. On top of that Gakpo was the man Ten Hag wanted, but Weghorst is what he got instead. Weghorst fought for the badge and many including me, loved him for the effort.

“Fought for the badge” “Was the muscle/physical man”

What are we fecking Stoke? He’s probably the worst player I’ve ever watched that was a consistent starter at the club. He actively hindered attacks as he couldn’t dribble, run, finish, or present any sort of threat to a team in general as a striker.

Loving a player because he tried hard, my goodness might as well give fans some minutes as well I’m sure all of us would kill ourselves running for the team too.

 

[Valencia Shin Crosses]

To be fair, it's hard to criticise a bloke who knew he was here for a good time, and not a long time, but still busted a bollock every time he played.

You could tell he really wanted to make a difference, it's just unfortunate he was so shit.

Nah I was fed up about halfway through, we aren’t a charity case yet it felt that way when he was starting game after game and every fan was begging him to score like he was some make a wish kid. I also don’t particularly rate “trying hard” as in my mind that should be the bare minimum as a professional footballer.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

I wish he’d be asked more about the playing style and he’d speak more openly about the hinderance in making that work. Most of us would love to know the nuances of why we are one of worst possession teams around whereas his Ajax played some absolutely wonderful possession football. If he truly wants that, even now, he can drop a few of the players who make it harder, and start implementing it. But he isn’t - it’s just the same old chase for scrappy results to “get top 4”.

The one area where I’ll always back him is vs our bad eggs. Whether it’s Rashford or whoever, curing the rotten culture is crucial. I read that Jose tried it in his last 1.5 years but could not solve the problem / didn’t get the support and Ineos has to give that importance.

 

[United888]

I wish he’d be asked more about the playing style and he’d speak more openly about the hinderance in making that work. Most of us would love to know the nuances of why we are one of worst possession teams around whereas his Ajax played some absolutely wonderful possession football. If he truly wants that, even now, he can drop a few of the players who make it harder, and start implementing it. But he isn’t - it’s just the same old chase for scrappy results to “get top 4”.

The one area where I’ll always back him is vs our bad eggs. Whether it’s Rashford or whoever, curing the rotten culture is crucial. I read that Jose tried it in his last 1.5 years but could not solve the problem / didn’t get the support and Ineos has to give that importance.

English isn’t his first language, so lot of people don’t seem to understand enough the words he used to describe his style of football. The three things he mentioned were He wants to play from the back, playing high line (high block), and constantly putting pressure on the opponent players (front foot all the time).

I don’t think he needs to be asked what are the hinderance, it would be difficult to give an honest answer without hurting his own players’ feeling. Beside, I think we should be able to see it ourselves why our team cannot do the three things he mentioned. We have bunch of CB who prefer to play low block because they are slow and not proactive to play the high line. We also have players who lack of fitness to constantly playing on the front foot all the time, some are even lazy to press. And finally we still have some missing pieces in our defense to play from the back. Martinez got injured, we got no one else to be able to play from the back especially against the high press opponent.

In a short sentence, he hasn’t got the full players to play the way he wants to. He played more pragmatic last season and it worked well, this season he tried to implement his style of football and the team couldn’t adapt to it because we still have players who prefer to play low block and counter attack.

 

[BuzzKillington]

Can’t see him surviving beyond what looks like an inevitable FA cup exit to Pool. A heavy loss on Sunday will the penultimate nail in the coffin.

 

[Member 117152]

Seems a nice guy but we won’t miss him one bit. I’m not a fan of his football at all.

The fact we never get a result against anyone around our squad strength is just atrocious bit like our points tally this season.

 

[reelworld]

At this point I believe that the way United are playing right now is how the manager wants them to play.
It's not the players who are lazy or not committed enough.
I still can't believe that ten Hag who was hired based on what he did with Ajax openly said that he doesn't want United to play like Ajax.

I still remember that after seeing United won against Arsenal last season thinking that this is a really good foundation to build on.

How on earth he doesn't try to perfect that but instead moving away from that

 

[DRJosh]

ETH’s unwavering belief in “the process” is starting to sound like desperate plea to appear like he knows what he is doing when in actual fact he is as clueless as they come. He must want that compensation badly when the sack hammer arrives.

 

[miliebrowndivorceattorney]

“Fought for the badge” “Was the muscle/physical man”

What are we fecking Stoke? He’s probably the worst player I’ve ever watched that was a consistent starter at the club. He actively hindered attacks as he couldn’t dribble, run, finish, or present any sort of threat to a team in general as a striker.

Loving a player because he tried hard, my goodness might as well give fans some minutes as well I’m sure all of us would kill ourselves running for the team too.

Didn't he give the assist for the 2 -0 in the Carabao Cup final against Newcastle? He also got marked heavely and drew away defenders for other attackers to score.

We aren''t Stoke but we also ain't Mbappe buying PSG, Madrid or even City. More on point: we are a Weghorst loaning club instead of Gakpo buying one. We could be sold to a new buyer during the summer 2023 but, ironically, I think Ten Hag's succes in his first year gave Glazers the wrong idea with the value of our club.

Many predicted what Ten Hag managed his first season - also with LFC not performing that season, this 23/24 would me much more difficult without some proper beefing up. And that proved to be exactly the case. We aren't Stoke but the status could be much worse if Chelsea and Newcastle find their groove.

 

[Acquire Me]

At this point I believe that the way United are playing right now is how the manager wants them to play.
It's not the players who are lazy or not committed enough.
I still can't believe that ten Hag who was hired based on what he did with Ajax openly said that he doesn't want United to play like Ajax.

I still remember that after seeing United won against Arsenal last season thinking that this is a really good foundation to build on.

How on earth he doesn't try to perfect that but instead moving away from that

I believe he miss a lot of players to play like he really wants to play. Injuries have been very unhelpful, but even with them it’s kind of obvious we need to replace players.

I think most of us can be more patient. Let Ineos and our new team work. If they believe EtH can work with them under the new structure, then he will. If not, he will go.

I have full confidence in Ineos and the process under the new leadership.

 

[SteveCoppellFan]

Seems like its open season on ETH at the moment.

I'd like nothing more than him turning things around and shutting up the awful British media.

 

[Rojofiam]

Only Antony has been a terrible signing. No one else.

How has Malacia been a terrible signing for 13m pounds after plenty of promising performances and one seemingly very serious injury? Or Mount, who's played 626 minutes so far, which is all down to injuries?

It's become fashionable to call everyone a terrible signing, unless they hit the ground running, and claim we overpaid for them, when in reality that's far from the case. Our inflated wage bill is the real problem, the transfer fees have been actually mostly reasonable in the last 4-5 years.

Also can't take anyone seriously who brings up ultimately meaningless, irrelevant signings like Weghorst...I swear I see his name on every page and he was a 6 month loan deal on low wages. Didn't impact the finances and was never brought in to make a huge impact or mean the difference between a good or bad season. The guys that should be talked about are Martínez, Antony, Casemiro, Hojlund, Mount and Onana. They are the 6 signings where the club took a real risk.

 

[MJay]

ETH’s unwavering belief in “the process” is starting to sound like desperate plea to appear like he knows what he is doing when in actual fact he is as clueless as they come. He must want that compensation badly when the sack hammer arrives.

Absolute, utter nonsense. For clarification, are you claiming he wants to be sacked cause he supposedly knows he is clueless? And he's just in it at the moment because he badly wants the compensation money?

 

[sunama]

Seems like its open season on ETH at the moment.

I'd like nothing more than him turning things around and shutting up the awful British media.

If he were going to turn things around, he'd have done that already.
Generally speaking, I expect him to win 2-3 games, followed by losing 1-2 games, followed by winning 2-3 games, and so on.
The team performances that you are seeing now is as good as ETH can get the players playing.
Put simply, ETH isn't good enough to manage a top side in the EPL.
He'd do well to manage a mid-table EPL team.

Even when Ole was here, I said that if he left MUFC, he wouldn't get an equivalent job anywhere in the World and that has proved to be the case.
ETH won't manage another club at our current level again - I can almost guarantee that. He has spent a large amount of money on players and come up with poor results.
Tomorrow we play MCFC and we are almost guaranteed to lose. How on Earth can a manager be (almost) guaranteed to lose and still be good enough to keep his job at MUFC?

 

[Tinúviel]

Only Antony has been a terrible signing. No one else.

How has Malacia been a terrible signing for 13m pounds after plenty of promising performances and one seemingly very serious injury? Or Mount, who's played 626 minutes so far, which is all down to injuries?

It's become fashionable to call everyone a terrible signing, unless they hit the ground running, and claim we overpaid for them, when in reality that's far from the case. Our inflated wage bill is the real problem, the transfer fees have been actually mostly reasonable in the last 4-5 years.

Also can't take anyone seriously who brings up ultimately meaningless, irrelevant signings like Weghorst...I swear I see his name on every page and he was a 6 month loan deal on low wages. Didn't impact the finances and was never brought in to make a huge impact or mean the difference between a good or bad season. The guys that should be talked about are Martínez, Antony, Casemiro, Hojlund, Mount and Onana. They are the 6 signings where the club took a real risk.

If you buy a player with a terrible injury record the last couple of years and, lo and behold, that injury record continues that constitutes as a bad signing.

A signing can be poor in more ways than one.

Another example is if you have a good player in a position and you chunk a large portion of your budget on another player in the same position when you have more urgent holes to fill, that would also be a poor signing. That doesn't necessarily mean the player is bad, but the signing is.

 

[TsuWave]

 

[hobbers]

Seems like its open season on ETH at the moment.

I'd like nothing more than him turning things around and shutting up the awful British media.

What's so awful about piling on a manager who looks so out of their depth?

 

[RuudTom83]

Yet United are 6th in the table and have conceded 36 goals compared to Spurs 39 and Villa 35.

But I get it, United sells, so whatever stat you can find that makes the club look awful pundits and talk shows will run with it all week long.

 

[Leftback99]

Shocking. But we've had a few injuries which justifies it.

 

[DomesticTadpole]

Yet United are 6th in the table and have conceded 36 goals compared to Spurs 39 and Villa 35.

But I get it, United sells, so whatever stat you can find that makes the club look awful pundits and talk shows will run with it all week long.

Difference is Spurs have scored 55 goals and Villa have scored 57. Us a measly 36. That gets you nowhere. Let's just hope we don't get a walloping against City. Also another big problem is we have lost 10 games in the PL, we cannot turn games into draws.

 

[RuudTom83]

Difference is Spurs have scored 55 goals and Villa have scored 57. Us a measly 36. That gets you nowhere. Let's just hope we don't get a walloping against City.

Hmm that's not the point Jamie is pushing through is it?

Sure there is tonnes wrong with United, but the defensive record is actually fairly solid, has been for 2 seasons, especially when the facts are United have has about 10 difference CB pairings this year.

To compared United to the worst defensive team in the history of the league (his words) is just stupidity.

 

[Irwin99]

Today's results are not going our way at all and we have City away tomorrow . We really needed to win that game against Fulham, that looks such a huge loss now if you factor in how tough it is to get a result against City.

I think he'll last until top 4 is mathematically impossible or we crash out of the FA cup.

 

[Leftback99]

Does anyone still think he can catch Villa?

 

[DomesticTadpole]

Hmm that's not the point Jamie is pushing through is it?

Sure there is tonnes wrong with United, but the defensive record is actually fairly solid, has been for 2 seasons, especially when the facts are United have has about 10 difference CB pairings this year.

To compared United to the worst defensive team in the history of the league (his words) is just stupidity.

That is fair enough, our defence has been disrupted no end. The way we concede goals is a worry more than the amount of goals. What really has done for us is the lack of goals at the other end. Rashford falling off a cliff and lack of goals from Bruno as well.

 

[TsuWave]

Yet United are 6th in the table and have conceded 36 goals compared to Spurs 39 and Villa 35.

Bring out the champers

 

[Castia]

Yet United are 6th in the table and have conceded 36 goals compared to Spurs 39 and Villa 35.

But I get it, United sells, so whatever stat you can find that makes the club look awful pundits and talk shows will run with it all week long.

They’re both about 10 points better off than us if we lose tomorrow. Yippee we’ve conceded 3 less goals whilst scoring 20 goals less than either side? Absolute awful stat you’ve got that bit right.

We’re accumulating chances against and shots on goal at a similar rate to 20th place Sheff United who are statistically one of the worst ever sides in the PL. The wins like one one against Luton who had 20 odd shots at goal aren’t sustainable that’s his point

 

[soapythecat]

Let’s be honest - the way we play and how few goals we score, can anyone look at our remaining league fixture list and see where we would get the 7 points to leap frog Spurs (as well as other wins too)? Not a chance. I can definitely see us dropping more points than Newcastle though so 7/8th is most certainly on the cards.
ETH has zero excuses left. Even with these players available we should and could play better but he’s out of his depth. Deserves to be sacked. Shame we will wait until end of the season though.

 

[Chumpsbechumps]

Depending on what sort of plan INEOs start,

Today's results are not going our way at all and we have City away tomorrow . We really needed to win that game against Fulham, that looks such a huge loss now if you factor in how tough it is to get a result against City.

I think he'll last until top 4 is mathematically impossible or we crash out of the FA cup.

I think top 5 is as good as gone. We have to win 10 of our last 12 games which is not gonna happen.

I agree with you about the Fulham game, we just had no room for mistakes until end of season. I still think Villa or spurs could crumble if they were under pressure but we are too far behind to put any meaningful pressure on them.