Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24

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Teams doesn't go from half a season of mid table/relegation level performances to title winning form (which he'd need to get top 4). He's surely done.
I've been saying this for weeks. His record since the cup final has been a negative GD so he's 100% gone - he can't just blame injuries this season. We were and have been poor since the day the team finally started to play the way he's coached them too. None of us has seen anything in the United side that will win enough games to get top 6, let alone top 4. Can't score enough goals.
 
I dunno, ETH has shown himself to be incredibly lucky and resilient. Anything can happen in football.
 
The shit on a stick football we've endured for almost a year has been difficult to stomach. Injuries or not, it's absolutely nowhere near good enough. He's been a big disappointment.
 
With Amrabat and Onana returning from AFCON, this will help him in getting us to play amazing football. It is still one of the worst injury/absence crisis in history of football (with Malacia, Martial and Maguire out) and he cannot be assessed until we have everyone back but it’s slightly better.
Mount not Maguire.
 
I don't think people defending him truly understand his job here. If Real Madrid spent 400m and had a manager who did not have them playing good football, the manager would be sacked. Do you think Ancelotti or Zidane had it easy at Madrid. Ronaldo was stropping any time there were new contract talks. Bale was proving a nuisance. There were player who weren't getting playing time that were disgruntled. In 2017, they literally changed lineups every week due to the amount of injuries they had. Do you think the likes of Marcelo didn't go to clubs during weeks? Do you think at Barca Neymar wasn't going to parties? I'd argue these situations being so public is a result of how badly we've handled it as a club, including Ten Haag.

Every top club has to deal with egos, disgruntled players and high expectations. That's why top clubs pay managers more money. I don't understand this notion that every thing needs to be perfect. It's never perfect. No team has it perfect all the time. Barca in 2011 had large spells where there were defensive injuries, where Keita played the most games for them.

Even at United. We had many seasons where a large portion of our key players were injured. Where defensive injuries hurt our defence/midfield. Every single club in England has to deal with that. City literally had KDB out for half the season, and no one is going excuse Pep or expect bad performances. And before people bring Klopp into this, he had already won a champions league and Premier League title. He had enough credit at Liverpool to last several lifetimes. Plus they had actually seen his system work. ETH doesn't and his system has sucked. Simple.

Why shouldn't we keep him till the end of the season? Because we can't afford to keep throwing seasons away. What are we telling the players? These are people looking to progress their careers and we are hampering them with a manager who we know isn't putting them in the right spots to shine. Unlike us, they don't have a billion years to be a fan, they have short careers and even shorter peaks. Bruno Fernandes for example is at his very peak now. This is his period to build a legacy for himself with great performances. If Ten Haag doesn't allow players like him, Rashford, Licha, Casemiro and Varane to shine, he's literally taking away part of their prime. In addition, we're trying to develop young players. It would again be best to put them in the best positions to succeed. If Garnacho, Hojlund, Amad and Mainoo aren't supported to shine in a good system, they'll lose the opportunity to prove themselves or even improve. It's always a selfish sentiment when fans call for a failing manager to stay on, because its not their careers on the line. This in particular is why I've never been against player power. It's simple people with interest in the success of the club and their role in it. Usually complaints come from older pundits who can't seem to understand people taking charge of their own lives.
Exactly right. The only reason he's still in the job is the turmoil upstairs.

I don't expect him to be United manager next season barring a miraculous turnaround and these weird tactics somehow clicking.
 
A lot hinged on a one very good CL run and some excellent CL performances from a young side. Had he of just had his Erdevisie experience to rely on he would not have been hired.

I personally don’t have a lot of faith in him due to the basic errors around organising his midfield, the freedom he gives Bruno, Antony, Mount and Onana clearly not being well thought out purchases, his pursuit of FDJ leading to the overpayment and panic buying of Casemiro, his limiting of minutes to youth players despite our first choice options being severely limited, the development of Amad - who I genuinely feel should have been much further advanced by now and could be a real gem. Still don’t see a team that can play with major intensity for more than 20 mins or so which is also concerning almost a year and a half into his reign.

It may have worked out - he may have been the next great tactician to emerge and that was the reason for taking that chance. we rolled that dice and I don’t think it has/will pay off. I hope INEOS take a similarly pro active approach to managers. He has had both time and money at this stage - bar the major injury issues which he can point to as being somewhat out of his control - he just needs to be held accountable for where the team is at - which as an elite level manager - not even half as developed as it should be.
The decision to loan Amad out was a good one as he got consistent minutes as a guaranteed starter and he was injured in preseason so not much ETH could have done for him this season.
 
I would have Jose top of the managers we've had post SAF.
The first two years with him was the most balanced, though pragmatic, I've seen us. Naturally, like all our managers post SAF, there was some real low points too. The performance and reaction against Sevilla was a particularly standout low point.
I still believe the football United played in Jose's first few months was the best football we've played for sometime though, even if we did have a ridiculous amount of trouble consistently finding the back of the net.

Ole's time here was more fun but the football was chaotic. Concede stupid goals but would score some genuine outstanding ones. Whatever the game, you felt confident we would score...but also concede. It was a toss of the coin whether the team would be victorious or not in any given game.
Also the lack of control in matches was a fundamental issue, as was the doubt in Ole's direction for the team.

LVG , minor a 4 game period in his 1st season, which wasn't too bad, the football played, more so in his 2nd campaign, was absolutely dreadful.

Moyes. A disaster.
 
He's likely only in a job because of the takeover. This season has been absolutely shocking.

I think this is ultimately what's going to cost him the job. Many fans have compared the poor performance of Klopp last season due to injuries with that of Erik this season, but the difference is Jurgens bottom was 5th (losing the same amount of games after 38 fixtures as United have at 21).

The issue is Erik's bottom is so poor it's catastrophic, he's allowed the bar to reach the floor this season and that's a catastrophe for anyone with the responsibility of management in any discipline or profession.

He's failed his responsibility as a manager with allowing the performance standards to deplete so drastically. All we have to do is assess his contract situation over the next 4 or so months because that will be the determination of his employment.
 
You're purposely choosing to highlight the extreme cases as a defence to Ten Hag's man management. They have chosen (incorrectly) to react to however they've been treated by Ten Hag in an extreme way. That's down to them and their personalities, not everyone makes the right choices.

Lets broaden the picture though, people you're forgetting to mention: Maguire, De Gea, McTomminay, Varane, Martial, Wan Bissaka, Bailley, Fred.

All these players have been dropped or targeted by the manager at some point during their time at United. Some spoke to the press while on international duty, some just shut up and got on with it and left in the end when they could, De Gea just left instead of signing a lesser contract and playing under Ten Hag again.

Before you make this out as me defending the players, I'm not. A lot of them either aren't good enough for United or didn't deserve to play anyway, which means they were in a position of weakness from the start so they couldn't complain like Sancho, Rashford or Ronaldo, because literally no one will take them anyway. They still deserve to be treated with respect however, otherwise the guys that you are playing and are relying on will turn on you at some point also, because they know one day they'll fall into that category.

ETH has been blamed here for the revolting ill-discipline of his players, an accusation which is not irrational but requires a response.

Let's do talk about Maguire. He got into trouble in Greece and has been shit ever since, with a noticeable upturn in form this season before he pulled his hamstring. There is nothing to pin on ETH for Maguire's downturn in form, which preceded his arrival last season. Point not well taken.

Let's do talk about De Gea. ETH downgraded the keeper position when he cast off De Gea for Onana. Point well taken.

Let's do talk about McTominay. I think we agree that selling Fred and keeping McTominay was madness. Point well taken.

Varane? Sorry, but Varane was outstanding for us last season. Not so this season, but he's been stricken with fitness issues this season but when he's been fit he's one of the first names on the team sheet. Point not well taken.

Martial? Martial was a disaster before ETH arrived and continues to be a disaster. We can't sell him and as I understand now we are not exercising the option on his contract. Point not well taken.

Wan Bissaka? AWB was a disappointment long before ETH arrived. True, we haven't tried to sell him but the club had higher priorities to addressed (which we've botched, which I'll get to shortly) but you can't hang AWB around ETH's neck. Point not well taken.

Bailly? We was gash for years before ETH and is now long gone. A really poor take if you're serious about blaming ETH for EB. Point not well taken.

Fred? Fred was an enigma long before ETH. On some days he was a force of nature and other days he was Foster Brooks in a United kit. He's gone now, but we kept the wrong halfof McFred. Point not well taken.

There is a serious case for the prosecution of ETH and I want to be clear that I am open to sacking him at season's end if both of the following are true: 1) we continue to muddle along as we have been this season AND 2) we have a top manager in hand ready to accept the job. But what I am not open to is sacking him right now, January 31. Why? Who the fukk would take over as interim manager? McClaren? Van der Gaag? Ragnick? Conte? Jose? I don't think so.
 
I think this is ultimately what's going to cost him the job. Many fans have compared the poor performance of Klopp last season due to injuries with that of Erik this season, but the difference is Jurgens bottom was 5th (losing the same amount of games after 38 fixtures as United have at 21).

The issue is Erik's bottom is so poor it's catastrophic, he's allowed the bar to reach the floor this season and that's a catastrophe for anyone with the responsibility of management in any discipline or profession.

He's failed his responsibility as a manager with allowing the performance standards to deplete so drastically. All we have to do is assess his contract situation over the next 4 or so months because that will be the determination of his employment.
Has he got the shits or something? :D
 
I think this is ultimately what's going to cost him the job. Many fans have compared the poor performance of Klopp last season due to injuries with that of Erik this season, but the difference is Jurgens bottom was 5th (losing the same amount of games after 38 fixtures as United have at 21).

The issue is Erik's bottom is so poor it's catastrophic, he's allowed the bar to reach the floor this season and that's a catastrophe for anyone with the responsibility of management in any discipline or profession.

He's failed his responsibility as a manager with allowing the performance standards to deplete so drastically. All we have to do is assess his contract situation over the next 4 or so months because that will be the determination of his employment.
If Chelsea win tonight and we lose tomorrow we will be 11th in the league. It’s clear as day we’re just playing this season out now in terms of those above Ten Hag so I’m not expecting interim manager and I don’t think we need CL money with the investment coming in freeing up ffp
I’m not fussed about CL, we haven’t got out of the group in 2 of our last 3 campaigns only scrapping though 2 seasons ago thanks to Ronaldo and even then went out to Atletico in a really shit tie. Unless we have a chance of going far in the competition then there’s no need for us to be in it. It might even help us move a few players, it was reported the pay bump for CL qualification last year priced a few players out of a move away.
 
Blaming all of Ronaldo, Greenwood, Sancho and Rashford on ten Hag is a stretch, to put it mildly.

What “exactly” did ten Hag do that compelled Rashford to take a private jet to Belfast to get wasted hours before the next s defiled training session?

I can’t wait to see the answer as to why what Rashford did was actually ten Hag’s fault.

How is that anything to do with ETH, he wasn't our manager then!

Even if he was. That's one of the most absurd things I've ever read
 
The season has been dreadful after an encouraging first season? Yes

The players seem in disarray again? Yes

This is a repeating pattern consistent over managers at United for too long now. And this should warrant a deeper discussion than just calling for Ten Hag out and start fresh.

Ten hag is more of a coach than manager really.Especially at Manchester United, a place where there is only disorder, which is a fact given multiple evidences on how the club is run.
You need a SAF level personality to pull this off. Pulling any trophy with this team is more or less equivalent to Pep winning a treble, if you try to also focus on operations. So as a manager this job at United will never give you a platform to shone given the current situation.

A manager couldn’t be fairly judged here at United on their performances barring Moyes/ Van Gaal maybe, a time when the club still had some elements that made us successful.

Personally only reason to say Ten Hag out is his inability sometimes to communicate precisely and with anecdotes. The press has been really hard on him too, more so borderline bullying, which has exposed some of his inter personal and communication flaws quite out in the open. That does open a question if his communication with players is causing issues.

I hope he’s given a chance to work in some structure before kicking him out as he’s shown promise in few moments.
 
The season has been dreadful after an encouraging first season? Yes

The players seem in disarray again? Yes

This is a repeating pattern consistent over managers at United for too long now. And this should warrant a deeper discussion than just calling for Ten Hag out and start fresh.

Ten hag is more of a coach than manager really.Especially at Manchester United, a place where there is only disorder, which is a fact given multiple evidences on how the club is run.
You need a SAF level personality to pull this off. Pulling any trophy with this team is more or less equivalent to Pep winning a treble, if you try to also focus on operations. So as a manager this job at United will never give you a platform to shone given the current situation.

A manager couldn’t be fairly judged here at United on their performances barring Moyes/ Van Gaal maybe, a time when the club still had some elements that made us successful.

Personally only reason to say Ten Hag out is his inability sometimes to communicate precisely and with anecdotes. The press has been really hard on him too, more so borderline bullying, which has exposed some of his inter personal and communication flaws quite out in the open. That does open a question if his communication with players is causing issues.

I hope he’s given a chance to work in some structure before kicking him out as he’s shown promise in few moments.

Yep, aside from communication all other aspects of his management have been good to great.
 
4 times in 16 attempts though, thats hardly a good return for a so called genius manager considering the squads and resurces he has had

That's a brilliant record. He's not playing alone in Champions League. It's supposed to be the tournament with the best of the Europe competing against each other, for God's sake.
 
That's a brilliant record. He's not playing alone in Champions League. It's supposed to be the tournament with the best of the Europe competing against each other, for God's sake.
Pep’s CL record is underwhelming overall though, he has always had one of the best 2-3 squads in Europe and should have achieved more. He got 2 of those finals and wins back at Barcelona during the first 3 years of his career and then it’s 2 finals and 1 win after that, while he was managing Bayern team that just won the treble and City team with possible the most resources of all European clubs where he had already inherited a good team.

This obviously doesn’t make ETH v Pep comparisons any less ridiculous though. They don’t belong in the same category. If you want managers to compare ETH with in Premier League or the fringes then it’s Hodgson, Nuno, Rodgers, Silva, Moyes etc., they are of the level where you can have a meaningful discussion about who’s better.
 
9th on the table in February and he's still the manager. One of the most baffling decisions ever to let him keep the job for this long.

I feel for the players who have to wake up and face the reality everyday that they have to train and play for this buffoon.
 
That's a brilliant record. He's not playing alone in Champions League. It's supposed to be the tournament with the best of the Europe competing against each other, for God's sake.

Yeah. People need to compare the record to other managers, not to a sense of what "should" have happened.
 
This is a repeating pattern consistent over managers at United for too long now. And this should warrant a deeper discussion than just calling for Ten Hag out and start fresh.
It's literally what's happening. We're changing everything, nobody wants to just sack the manager and leave everything as is.

Could not disagree more about the press being hard on him to the point of bullying. If anything they've been easy on him considering the circumstances, ie United manager having the worst season in club's modern history.

Some standards need to be set. "Shown promise in few moments" is not even close to being enough at this point.
 
One of the most baffling decisions ever to let him keep the job for this long.
Of course it isn't. It was common sense to wait for INEOS to arrive in order for them to appoint the 'best in class', who are actually qualified to make footballing decisions. You would like to think that we have a better chance of making correct decisions with a top CEO/Sporting Director/Head of Recruitment as opposed to what we had previously.
 
I would have Jose top of the managers we've had post SAF.
The first two years with him was the most balanced, though pragmatic, I've seen us. Naturally, like all our managers post SAF, there was some real low points too. The performance and reaction against Sevilla was a particularly standout low point.
I still believe the football United played in Jose's first few months was the best football we've played for sometime though, even if we did have a ridiculous amount of trouble consistently finding the back of the net.

Ole's time here was more fun but the football was chaotic. Concede stupid goals but would score some genuine outstanding ones. Whatever the game, you felt confident we would score...but also concede. It was a toss of the coin whether the team would be victorious or not in any given game.
Also the lack of control in matches was a fundamental issue, as was the doubt in Ole's direction for the team.

LVG , minor a 4 game period in his 1st season, which wasn't too bad, the football played, more so in his 2nd campaign, was absolutely dreadful.

Moyes. A disaster.

The first Mourinho season was mostly awful. It was great to win the trophies but the journey getting there wasn't particularly great.

The start of the second season was fantastic until the Liverpool away 0-0 when we seemed to lose all momentum and it was all downhill from there really. The Sevilla game and Chelsea cup final were proper grim to watch.
 
The first Mourinho season was mostly awful. It was great to win the trophies but the journey getting there wasn't particularly great.

The start of the second season was fantastic until the Liverpool away 0-0 when we seemed to lose all momentum and it was all downhill from there really. The Sevilla game and Chelsea cup final were proper grim to watch.
i find this rose tinted view of Jose strange. Some of the worst and dullest football I ever saw was under Jose, he used to go ultra defensive with 2 holding players against even low placed teams, and still at times lose. He lost the plot after board refused to buy Maguire, remember next game he started McT at center back (he was bad), which was a real 2 fingers to Woodward. Woodward too dumb to even realise. He's also just a nasty, toxic manager. Chartlon was right, should never have been anywhere near United. We can and should do much,, much better.
 
Loved this from the presser, when asked about the difference in treatment and punishment: Ten Hag replied: "We can sort out everything internally. Jadon chose to go public".

Smack, straight to the point and now subject closed.
 
It's literally what's happening. We're changing everything, nobody wants to just sack the manager and leave everything as is.

Could not disagree more about the press being hard on him to the point of bullying. If anything they've been easy on him considering the circumstances, ie United manager having the worst season in club's modern history.

Some standards need to be set. "Shown promise in few moments" is not even close to being enough at this point.
I also don’t support the ‘press has been so hard on him, making it difficult for him to perform, impossible job’ narrative either. They’ve actually been very lenient and there has been very little talk about his dismissal in what is possibly the worst season by a manager at a top club this century.
 
Loved this from the presser, when asked about the difference in treatment and punishment: Ten Hag replied: "We can sort out everything internally. Jadon chose to go public".

Smack, straight to the point and now subject closed.
Technically Eric made it public in that post match, it was Sancho that made it all worse with his public reaction to it.
 
I disagree. Last season was the only time I partly enjoyed watching us and was actually looking forward to our games. I never had this since Fergie left

Really!? I suppose if direct low block football is your thing.
 
I would definitely put him above van Gaal and would be tempted to still put him above Ole because he at least won a trophy.
Van Gaal never reached the lows that ten Hag has, his away record against big teams wasn't that bad and he at least managed to finish 4th and 5th.

It's likely ten Hag could have us finish outside the top 6, his away record is poor and we've been thrashed in a few games. Ten Hag's football hasn't been as boring but it has been utterly flaccid at times.
 
Technically Eric made it public in that post match, it was Sancho that made it all worse with his public reaction to it.
I absolutely agree.

In fact, improving the level of his English is a very serious challenge that he needs to address fully. I feel like many of the negative situations could have been handled more conclusively if he had Pep and Klopps near fluency in the English language.

It is still plaguing him to this day. In fact, the whole "Best transition team" talking point is because of the language he chose, where he later cleared it up and said he does want us to play from the back fully and to dominate possession, but ALSO be the best transition team. Liverpool were all those things under Klopp.

I have realised though, ten Hag is improving pretty quickly. He also has to work on the accent and the little sounds he makes in between stuff. Not just for interactions with the players, but in the press too, in interviews, etc..

I think De Zerbi will suffer the same thing, but far worse, at a "bigger" club like us or Liverpool. It does not help Poch either, and didn't with Conte. It seems mastering the English language is simply a big requirement for consistent success.
 
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Good presser from him shutting down some journalists.
 
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