Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24

Status
Not open for further replies.
Amrabat would have provided more than McTominay I'd say, at least helping Mainoo out with the defence, intercepting the opposition and giving us more control in the midfield.
Would have been interesting to test out instead of persisting with something that clearly was not working.
We had the control vs West Ham away, what let us down vs west ham away was the final third pass/cross and decision making in the final third. Amrabat doesn’t offer fluidity and creativity like what Eriksen does or even Mason Mount to improve our final third pass vs west ham. Replacing McTominay with amrabat won’t solve our problem in our final third. Because of Eriksen, Mount and Casemiro injuries, he had no other option.
 
Last edited:
Loads of people (fans and opposition) saying they can't see what Ten Hag is doing, yet this season more than last you can see what his potential end goal is. Playing with two 8s pushed a bit further up does split the team into a defensive line and an attacking line which is where we are seeing the CBs and the one holding midfielder with the midfield kinda being vacated (a common complaint but a tactical choice). Then one of the full backs pops into the centre to add an extra body which gives you that box midfield of a DM and FB with the two 8s ahead. The opposition then has a choice to make which is drop back and let us have the ball or press us knowing that their defence will potentially be outnumbered with our 5 attacking players. Sometimes its been working, but for the most part those who have been playing have been making silly mistakes and turning over the ball causing us to get countered pretty easily this season.

Its a very risky way to play and clearly you need more technical and/or intelligent players to play that way. Its not a surprise that when you have Eriksen and Mainoo in the centre it looks a lot better. Not saying Eriksen is the answer but Mount potentially would offer similar. For me this season has been more about the squad not being able to play this style with all the injuries. Put Casemiro in as DM, Mount for Eriksen, Licha back at CB, give them a run and I'd imagine we would start to see the team implement the tactics more consistently. It's more important that in the summer we get the right players in who can not only play the way Ten Hag wants but also suit the league and at the same time we get rid of those who cannot play this way. Just as important is that if as a club we are set on playing this style of football/Ten Hag's philosophy, then even when there is an injury crisis like this we shouldn't just abandon it and go back to a 4 2 3 1 which would suit the likes of Bruno, Rashford etc.
I think everyone can see what he is trying to do but the personnel just doesn't have it in them. Casemiro looks physically shot and is not that good on the ball, Mount whilst a good presser doesn't look effective with the ball and lack the athleticism to get back and support the midfield, Licha looks perfect for the CB designated to step up but ideally need a monstrous CB as partner who can cover ground whilst Bruno and Rashford are turnover magnets.

After our high press gets broken through we just don't have enough athleticism to win the ball back and it's always a risk with a player like Bruno in there because he will always risk losing ball in dangerous areas. I think you need a mobile version of Eriksen for the role Mount was brought in for, Mainoo or Gore could do that; a physically dominant but technically proficient DM and a world class CB who can cover ground to stall attacks as Licha gets back in position.
 
I think everyone can see what he is trying to do but the personnel just doesn't have it in them. Casemiro looks physically shot and is not that good on the ball, Mount whilst a good presser doesn't look effective with the ball and lack the athleticism to get back and support the midfield, Licha looks perfect for the CB designated to step up but ideally need a monstrous CB as partner who can cover ground whilst Bruno and Rashford are turnover magnets.

After our high press gets broken through we just don't have enough athleticism to win the ball back and it's always a risk with a player like Bruno in there because he will always risk losing ball in dangerous areas. I think you need a mobile version of Eriksen for the role Mount was brought in for, Mainoo or Gore could do that; a physically dominant but technically proficient DM and a world class CB who can cover ground to stall attacks as Licha gets back in position.

I'd be a bit wary to write Mount off just yet, if you look at the traits needed to play the 8 role for EtH Mount ticks a lot of them (maybe not as good in defensive positioning) and to be fair to him his season hasn't really got going with all the injuries. Hopefully after he gets back he can get a run. I agree with Licha, he needs a strong/fast CB next to him, we need to invest in that. Casemiro should be fine to alternate with Mainoo for the rest of the season but I do think there is a decision to make in the summer. If Ten Hag sees Mainoo as our future 6 then only if Casemiro leaves would I get a backup DM. If he sees Mainoo as an 8 then yeah we need a first 11 replacement. Here's hoping the new regime can identify good signings.
 
First one to beat Villa when they’ve been leading at HT. this season reminds me of the ones Arsenal had under Arteta. He played a lot of young players who wasn’t consistent but now they’re showing signs of a team. We’ve got 3 very young lads in the team in Hojlund, Garnacho and Mainoo.
 
I'd be a bit wary to write Mount off just yet, if you look at the traits needed to play the 8 role for EtH Mount ticks a lot of them (maybe not as good in defensive positioning) and to be fair to him his season hasn't really got going with all the injuries. Hopefully after he gets back he can get a run. I agree with Licha, he needs a strong/fast CB next to him, we need to invest in that. Casemiro should be fine to alternate with Mainoo for the rest of the season but I do think there is a decision to make in the summer. If Ten Hag sees Mainoo as our future 6 then only if Casemiro leaves would I get a backup DM. If he sees Mainoo as an 8 then yeah we need a first 11 replacement. Here's hoping the new regime can identify good signings.
Agree with a lot of that but I don't see it with Mount both physically and technically. That hybrid 8/10 role is a niche one and he does have some traits for it but, for me, he is missing the decisive ones - ability to consistently contribute in attack be it playmakingnor goalscoring and the physicality to cover ground when the initial press is broken.
 
By this logic that means whenever we lose it's 100% the players' faults? Since they get credit for the entirety of the win.

They’re still willing to put in that type of fight to come back and get results for him which is obviously credit to Ten Hag too.

If last night was the beginning of the end of the McTominay experiment there might be a little bit of hope yet.
 
Loads of people (fans and opposition) saying they can't see what Ten Hag is doing, yet this season more than last you can see what his potential end goal is. Playing with two 8s pushed a bit further up does split the team into a defensive line and an attacking line which is where we are seeing the CBs and the one holding midfielder with the midfield kinda being vacated (a common complaint but a tactical choice). Then one of the full backs pops into the centre to add an extra body which gives you that box midfield of a DM and FB with the two 8s ahead. The opposition then has a choice to make which is drop back and let us have the ball or press us knowing that their defence will potentially be outnumbered with our 5 attacking players. Sometimes its been working, but for the most part those who have been playing have been making silly mistakes and turning over the ball causing us to get countered pretty easily this season.

Its a very risky way to play and clearly you need more technical and/or intelligent players to play that way. Its not a surprise that when you have Eriksen and Mainoo in the centre it looks a lot better. Not saying Eriksen is the answer but Mount potentially would offer similar. For me this season has been more about the squad not being able to play this style with all the injuries. Put Casemiro in as DM, Mount for Eriksen, Licha back at CB, give them a run and I'd imagine we would start to see the team implement the tactics more consistently. It's more important that in the summer we get the right players in who can not only play the way Ten Hag wants but also suit the league and at the same time we get rid of those who cannot play this way. Just as important is that if as a club we are set on playing this style of football/Ten Hag's philosophy, then even when there is an injury crisis like this we shouldn't just abandon it and go back to a 4 2 3 1 which would suit the likes of Bruno, Rashford etc.

This is why I want him to be kept, you can see what he wants to do. Even after the West Ham game I wasn't too pissed, because the game plan was good it just didn't happen in front of goal. And yesterday at 2 nil, I was like Evra, looking at positives and I felt a win was still on the cards.

I think comparisons to others is off the mark, we always hear about Ange and Emery, but they have quite simplistic playing styles which makes it easier to adopt. Which is why they had more immediate visible success on the pitch.

When you are trying to play a certain way and instill a new style on a team like this ups and downs with results are to be expected. ETH has a more complex plan than people give him credit for, so it takes more time for it to be adopted and effective long term. It's also very obvious he was shoe horning players in around the pitch for various reasons which also delays the team development.

It's very short sighted to be jumping up and down and declaring another corner turned after beating Villa, but I think it's also very short sighted to be wanting him sacked after 18 months when you can clearly see what the plan is and that it's really only starting to come together on the pitch.
 


This play was good but it doesn't mean we have a style of play when it's an anomaly occurring in few games. I can bring similar clips of us doing an organized counter attack full of short passes under Mourinho and Ole as well. It doesn't mean both played good football.

Style of play is something you watch regularly every game, not a single moment in one game.

Another one

 
Last edited:
Agree with a lot of that but I don't see it with Mount both physically and technically. That hybrid 8/10 role is a niche one and he does have some traits for it but, for me, he is missing the decisive ones - ability to consistently contribute in attack be it playmakingnor goalscoring and the physicality to cover ground when the initial press is broken.

I think he's shown in the past he can contribute goalscoring wise, not saying he will definitely come good, just think we need to at least give him a fair shake before writing him off. I think there is potential there to play the role.
 
If he just drops Onana and Bruno I'd regain so much confidence in him.
Bruno was very good yesterday. It's the petualance that the fas don't like, but he has been nothing short of one of our best players over the last number of years.

Onana will go to the AFCON and we will see how our number 2 gets on.
 
Loads of people (fans and opposition) saying they can't see what Ten Hag is doing, yet this season more than last you can see what his potential end goal is. Playing with two 8s pushed a bit further up does split the team into a defensive line and an attacking line which is where we are seeing the CBs and the one holding midfielder with the midfield kinda being vacated (a common complaint but a tactical choice). Then one of the full backs pops into the centre to add an extra body which gives you that box midfield of a DM and FB with the two 8s ahead. The opposition then has a choice to make which is drop back and let us have the ball or press us knowing that their defence will potentially be outnumbered with our 5 attacking players. Sometimes its been working, but for the most part those who have been playing have been making silly mistakes and turning over the ball causing us to get countered pretty easily this season.

Its a very risky way to play and clearly you need more technical and/or intelligent players to play that way. Its not a surprise that when you have Eriksen and Mainoo in the centre it looks a lot better. Not saying Eriksen is the answer but Mount potentially would offer similar. For me this season has been more about the squad not being able to play this style with all the injuries. Put Casemiro in as DM, Mount for Eriksen, Licha back at CB, give them a run and I'd imagine we would start to see the team implement the tactics more consistently. It's more important that in the summer we get the right players in who can not only play the way Ten Hag wants but also suit the league and at the same time we get rid of those who cannot play this way. Just as important is that if as a club we are set on playing this style of football/Ten Hag's philosophy, then even when there is an injury crisis like this we shouldn't just abandon it and go back to a 4 2 3 1 which would suit the likes of Bruno, Rashford etc.
Precisely this. I have been enjoying our games in bits and pieces. We are horribly inconsistent but I do know something is being cooked . He would be given time until end of season.

He needs a break for sure. Need our players back from injuries .
 
Jury is still out, like I said before he's the ultimate "benefit of the doubt" manager. Dropping McTominay fixed the mistake ETH did himself, replacing Antony with Garnacho could've been tried a while ago. But at the same time, Eriksen just got back from injury so we couldn't really set up this way (although we COULD'VE played two man midfield with Amrabat - question marks over this transfer now).

All in all not convinced at all, seems like we play better when our manager actually listens to the Caf advices.

Clearly players are still playing for him though so I definitely wouldn't sack him until the end of the season.
 
It's more a case of why would you bother being really over critical like as if we have lost, just enjoy the win ffs. If your first thought is to come in here and bitch about the manager after a good win then that's just weird behaviour. But some posters just enjoy being miserable clearly.

Agreed.
I’d be interested to know where the moaners actually draw the line.
Once they have decided the manager needs to be sacked, do they even celebrate goals any more?
 
Its pretty clear that we have not found a solution yet despite having spent £400 million. We are best as a counter-attacking team and have been for a long time -- even under Fergie.
How is committing to a full high press a counter-attack tactic? We played man for man in the 2nd half.
 
Kloppball? I wouldn't have an issue with that
No me neither. This discussion has been going on for a while. We aren’t a counter-attack team, but a team trying to force transitions.

Also: watch the build-up to the disallowed goal.
 


This play was good but it doesn't mean we have a style of play when it's an anomaly occurring in few games. I can bring similar clips of us doing an organized counter attack full of short passes under Mourinho and Ole as well. It doesn't mean both played good football.

Style of play is something you watch regularly every game, not a single moment in one game.
 
This play was good but it doesn't mean we have a style of play when it's an anomaly occurring in few games. I can bring similar clips of us doing an organized counter attack full of short passes under Mourinho and Ole as well. It doesn't mean both played good football.

Style of play is something you watch regularly every game, not a single moment in one game.

These people would be blown away by Maguire's highlights reel and demand to give him an extension. And McT would basically be Gerrard in their eyes.
 
Bruno was very good yesterday. It's the petualance that the fas don't like, but he has been nothing short of one of our best players over the last number of years.

Onana will go to the AFCON and we will see how our number 2 gets on.
Bruno was abysmal in the first half, but came up in the second. However he deserves to be dropped if he continues in his current form.
 
It's an undeniable fact that both collectively and individually there have been some really deep lows this season but if there was any truth in the claims that the manager has lost the dressing room or that the players aren't having him then it would have been the easiest thing in the world for them to roll over in the 2nd half last night to make his position untenable.

The fact they stuck at it, shook a leg, put in a good performance and won the match with the accompanying joy of scoring and winning suggests to me they are still with him.
 
Really pleased how many young players he’s using, 2 teenagers starting and excelling is so quintessentially Man United. Now he seems to be moving to a more youth focused approach which I think is exactly what the club needs in this difficult time.
 
This play was good but it doesn't mean we have a style of play when it's an anomaly occurring in few games. I can bring similar clips of us doing an organized counter attack full of short passes under Mourinho and Ole as well. It doesn't mean both played good football.

Style of play is something you watch regularly every game, not a single moment in one game.
He clearly has a style of play. Even when we were losing the style was there, it was just implemented very poorly - which yes was a fault of his which he would take ownership of.

That said, this idea that he didnt have a style of play is a lazy argument from lazy whingers of the manager.
 
With regards to critic of ETH not having or implementing a clear style: maybe its just dificult to immediatly see the difference. Other experts have noted that ETH tries to make a better transition in the middle of the pitch. Stats showed United is winning more balls there. Its a tricky tactic and without organisation at the back youre vunerable for quick counter atacks - wich is what Villa did, and overloaded United the first 20 minutes in a fantastic way. Villa plays some magnificent football. But even then you saw that United could get out once the defence dealed with the many dangers. The 2nd half the pressing went a lot further and especially the last 20 minutes it was so beauiful to see Dalot, Rashford, Bruno work together and stle the bal away from Villa like 8 or 9 times in just a few minutes. Eriksen sometimes helped out and he was the diffreence vs say Amrabat, who just doesnt have the skills to keep th eball whereas Eriksen knitted everything together. That wasnt counter attack, that was a mighty impresive pressing showcase. Do note that even when Antony came on, he also went in hard, won a challenge and eventhough he looked to slip after winning the first duel, still got a corner out of it where out of Hojland scored the winner.

Result was needed and just in time the attackers delivered - Garnacho seems to rise game by game, but also it was against a very good side many thought we would not win.

That, and the use of many youth players kind of swings me over for keeping ETH. Funny to think he actually made Ajax win so much by playing a lot of youngsters. And if last night is an indication, these guys wanna bleed for the shirt, for their manager. Any new manager it remains to be seen where this will go. Look at Howe, at Poch. They even have less points than us. I think United can do worse than under ETH, even in bad games it looks a right mess. What he tries to do, is a very high standard of modern football. Imo.
 
First one to beat Villa when they’ve been leading at HT. this season reminds me of the ones Arsenal had under Arteta. He played a lot of young players who wasn’t consistent but now they’re showing signs of a team. We’ve got 3 very young lads in the team in Hojlund, Garnacho and Mainoo.
Noticed that too, I think he's pretty obviously copying the Arteta / Arsenal blueprint. We'll probably look garbage for spells but he's gambling on players like the three you've mentioned to develop into quality players by giving them plenty of game time.
 
Noticed that too, I think he's pretty obviously copying the Arteta / Arsenal blueprint. We'll probably look garbage for spells but he's gambling on players like the three you've mentioned to develop into quality players by giving them plenty of game time.

It's not an Arsenal blueprint.

It's just a basic principle of squad building, you build around younger players with the idea that this squad with a few additional signings will grow, mature and peak together over 2-3 seasons. They will be ideally then be at their peak for 3-4 years, over that time you are expected to be winning trophies and competing across the top end every year.
 
Noticed that too, I think he's pretty obviously copying the Arteta / Arsenal blueprint. We'll probably look garbage for spells but he's gambling on players like the three you've mentioned to develop into quality players by giving them plenty of game time.
If it pays off then it’s good for the long run. Some fans don’t have patience and I get that, everyone once instant success. But I’m happy to develop young players and wait for our success to come. Liverpool and Arsenal had to wait. I think city are the only ones that got instant success and that was because they could just spend and spend. We’re doing it the proper way like Arsenal. Obviously we’ll have to spend aswel to improve and we have spent on rubbish but with Ratcliffe coming in… things should look different in a year or so.
 
From now til the end of the season, what I'm really looking from him will be:
  • Show he can implement a solid team defensive structure, not just be bailed out in the last line (we concede a ridiculous amount of shots)
  • Show we can build up play and not look useless in big games where we don't just have a player quality advantage, system needs to prove it's worth... Get a big away win, improve record against top half, all involved in this
  • Start caring about set pieces, we are so so bad at defending them and so many of our own end in nothing. One of the worst in the league at them while that alone can be the difference between a top 4 challenger and a title challenger
  • Stop going for band aid quick fixes and actually focus on implementing his system. We have a week in between games, there's no more fixture congestion or travel excuses. Time to show good football.
 
Yes, Arteta invented that concept.
It's not an Arsenal blueprint.

It's just a basic principle of squad building, you build around younger players with the idea that this squad with a few additional signings will grow, mature and peak together over 2-3 seasons. They will be ideally then be at their peak for 3-4 years, over that time you are expected to be winning trophies and competing across the top end every year.
I never said Arsenal invented it but you'd have to be blind not to notice the parallels.
 
I never said Arsenal invented it but you'd have to be blind not to notice the parallels.

You could draw the parallels back to when Utd did this repeatedly under SAF.

It's about having a vision and building towards it, which is why I find all the cries for him to be sacked odd. Either you just want to win the next game to be happy or you want the club to build towards being successful and maintaining levels for longer periods.

Building a squad capable of building towards a sustainable period of success and challenging for trophies is a process that takes 2-3 years.
 
Last edited:
You could draw the parallels back to when Utd did this repeatedly under SAF.

It's about having a vision and building towards it, which is why I find all the cries for him to be sacked odd. Either you just want to win the next game to be happy or you want the club to build towards being successful and maintaining levels for longer periods.

Well his dealings in the transfer market so far are probably the main reason people feel sketchy about him bringing in yet more players and spending yet more cash for a manager that will prob show them the door. Trust has been dented and rightly so.
 
It's not an Arsenal blueprint.

It's just a basic principle of squad building, you build around younger players with the idea that this squad with a few additional signings will grow, mature and peak together over 2-3 seasons. They will be ideally then be at their peak for 3-4 years, over that time you are expected to be winning trophies and competing across the top end every year.
He is trying to do both at the same time: promoting youth and getting immediate reinforcements like Casemiro and Eriksen last season, as well as temporary signings to fill out the squad numbers: Amrabat, Evans.

It is beneficial, because the older players can help the younger with their experience.
 
I think everyone can see what he is trying to do but the personnel just doesn't have it in them. Casemiro looks physically shot and is not that good on the ball, Mount whilst a good presser doesn't look effective with the ball and lack the athleticism to get back and support the midfield, Licha looks perfect for the CB designated to step up but ideally need a monstrous CB as partner who can cover ground whilst Bruno and Rashford are turnover magnets.

After our high press gets broken through we just don't have enough athleticism to win the ball back and it's always a risk with a player like Bruno in there because he will always risk losing ball in dangerous areas. I think you need a mobile version of Eriksen for the role Mount was brought in for, Mainoo or Gore could do that; a physically dominant but technically proficient DM and a world class CB who can cover ground to stall attacks as Licha gets back in position.
Mount is quite good on the ball. He just played a total of 8 fecking games. Come on guys - this is getting ridiculous.

That position isn't meant for a DM. Let's please get that correct. He is trying to get a numerical advantage on the attacking phase. See how Arsenal line up with Havertz. They have better players now but they had the exact same issue when Partey was injured last year. Tried to bring in Jorginho, Zinchenko to implement this.

It's not an easy formation but when it clicks, it's a style that can dominate opponents completely.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.