We had the control vs West Ham away, what let us down vs west ham away was the final third pass/cross and decision making in the final third. Amrabat doesn’t offer fluidity and creativity like what Eriksen does or even Mason Mount to improve our final third pass vs west ham. Replacing McTominay with amrabat won’t solve our problem in our final third. Because of Eriksen, Mount and Casemiro injuries, he had no other option.Amrabat would have provided more than McTominay I'd say, at least helping Mainoo out with the defence, intercepting the opposition and giving us more control in the midfield.
Would have been interesting to test out instead of persisting with something that clearly was not working.
I think everyone can see what he is trying to do but the personnel just doesn't have it in them. Casemiro looks physically shot and is not that good on the ball, Mount whilst a good presser doesn't look effective with the ball and lack the athleticism to get back and support the midfield, Licha looks perfect for the CB designated to step up but ideally need a monstrous CB as partner who can cover ground whilst Bruno and Rashford are turnover magnets.Loads of people (fans and opposition) saying they can't see what Ten Hag is doing, yet this season more than last you can see what his potential end goal is. Playing with two 8s pushed a bit further up does split the team into a defensive line and an attacking line which is where we are seeing the CBs and the one holding midfielder with the midfield kinda being vacated (a common complaint but a tactical choice). Then one of the full backs pops into the centre to add an extra body which gives you that box midfield of a DM and FB with the two 8s ahead. The opposition then has a choice to make which is drop back and let us have the ball or press us knowing that their defence will potentially be outnumbered with our 5 attacking players. Sometimes its been working, but for the most part those who have been playing have been making silly mistakes and turning over the ball causing us to get countered pretty easily this season.
Its a very risky way to play and clearly you need more technical and/or intelligent players to play that way. Its not a surprise that when you have Eriksen and Mainoo in the centre it looks a lot better. Not saying Eriksen is the answer but Mount potentially would offer similar. For me this season has been more about the squad not being able to play this style with all the injuries. Put Casemiro in as DM, Mount for Eriksen, Licha back at CB, give them a run and I'd imagine we would start to see the team implement the tactics more consistently. It's more important that in the summer we get the right players in who can not only play the way Ten Hag wants but also suit the league and at the same time we get rid of those who cannot play this way. Just as important is that if as a club we are set on playing this style of football/Ten Hag's philosophy, then even when there is an injury crisis like this we shouldn't just abandon it and go back to a 4 2 3 1 which would suit the likes of Bruno, Rashford etc.
I think everyone can see what he is trying to do but the personnel just doesn't have it in them. Casemiro looks physically shot and is not that good on the ball, Mount whilst a good presser doesn't look effective with the ball and lack the athleticism to get back and support the midfield, Licha looks perfect for the CB designated to step up but ideally need a monstrous CB as partner who can cover ground whilst Bruno and Rashford are turnover magnets.
After our high press gets broken through we just don't have enough athleticism to win the ball back and it's always a risk with a player like Bruno in there because he will always risk losing ball in dangerous areas. I think you need a mobile version of Eriksen for the role Mount was brought in for, Mainoo or Gore could do that; a physically dominant but technically proficient DM and a world class CB who can cover ground to stall attacks as Licha gets back in position.
Agree with a lot of that but I don't see it with Mount both physically and technically. That hybrid 8/10 role is a niche one and he does have some traits for it but, for me, he is missing the decisive ones - ability to consistently contribute in attack be it playmakingnor goalscoring and the physicality to cover ground when the initial press is broken.I'd be a bit wary to write Mount off just yet, if you look at the traits needed to play the 8 role for EtH Mount ticks a lot of them (maybe not as good in defensive positioning) and to be fair to him his season hasn't really got going with all the injuries. Hopefully after he gets back he can get a run. I agree with Licha, he needs a strong/fast CB next to him, we need to invest in that. Casemiro should be fine to alternate with Mainoo for the rest of the season but I do think there is a decision to make in the summer. If Ten Hag sees Mainoo as our future 6 then only if Casemiro leaves would I get a backup DM. If he sees Mainoo as an 8 then yeah we need a first 11 replacement. Here's hoping the new regime can identify good signings.
By this logic that means whenever we lose it's 100% the players' faults? Since they get credit for the entirety of the win.
Loads of people (fans and opposition) saying they can't see what Ten Hag is doing, yet this season more than last you can see what his potential end goal is. Playing with two 8s pushed a bit further up does split the team into a defensive line and an attacking line which is where we are seeing the CBs and the one holding midfielder with the midfield kinda being vacated (a common complaint but a tactical choice). Then one of the full backs pops into the centre to add an extra body which gives you that box midfield of a DM and FB with the two 8s ahead. The opposition then has a choice to make which is drop back and let us have the ball or press us knowing that their defence will potentially be outnumbered with our 5 attacking players. Sometimes its been working, but for the most part those who have been playing have been making silly mistakes and turning over the ball causing us to get countered pretty easily this season.
Its a very risky way to play and clearly you need more technical and/or intelligent players to play that way. Its not a surprise that when you have Eriksen and Mainoo in the centre it looks a lot better. Not saying Eriksen is the answer but Mount potentially would offer similar. For me this season has been more about the squad not being able to play this style with all the injuries. Put Casemiro in as DM, Mount for Eriksen, Licha back at CB, give them a run and I'd imagine we would start to see the team implement the tactics more consistently. It's more important that in the summer we get the right players in who can not only play the way Ten Hag wants but also suit the league and at the same time we get rid of those who cannot play this way. Just as important is that if as a club we are set on playing this style of football/Ten Hag's philosophy, then even when there is an injury crisis like this we shouldn't just abandon it and go back to a 4 2 3 1 which would suit the likes of Bruno, Rashford etc.
This play was good but it doesn't mean we have a style of play when it's an anomaly occurring in few games. I can bring similar clips of us doing an organized counter attack full of short passes under Mourinho and Ole as well. It doesn't mean both played good football.
Style of play is something you watch regularly every game, not a single moment in one game.
Agree with a lot of that but I don't see it with Mount both physically and technically. That hybrid 8/10 role is a niche one and he does have some traits for it but, for me, he is missing the decisive ones - ability to consistently contribute in attack be it playmakingnor goalscoring and the physicality to cover ground when the initial press is broken.
Bruno was very good yesterday. It's the petualance that the fas don't like, but he has been nothing short of one of our best players over the last number of years.If he just drops Onana and Bruno I'd regain so much confidence in him.
Precisely this. I have been enjoying our games in bits and pieces. We are horribly inconsistent but I do know something is being cooked . He would be given time until end of season.Loads of people (fans and opposition) saying they can't see what Ten Hag is doing, yet this season more than last you can see what his potential end goal is. Playing with two 8s pushed a bit further up does split the team into a defensive line and an attacking line which is where we are seeing the CBs and the one holding midfielder with the midfield kinda being vacated (a common complaint but a tactical choice). Then one of the full backs pops into the centre to add an extra body which gives you that box midfield of a DM and FB with the two 8s ahead. The opposition then has a choice to make which is drop back and let us have the ball or press us knowing that their defence will potentially be outnumbered with our 5 attacking players. Sometimes its been working, but for the most part those who have been playing have been making silly mistakes and turning over the ball causing us to get countered pretty easily this season.
Its a very risky way to play and clearly you need more technical and/or intelligent players to play that way. Its not a surprise that when you have Eriksen and Mainoo in the centre it looks a lot better. Not saying Eriksen is the answer but Mount potentially would offer similar. For me this season has been more about the squad not being able to play this style with all the injuries. Put Casemiro in as DM, Mount for Eriksen, Licha back at CB, give them a run and I'd imagine we would start to see the team implement the tactics more consistently. It's more important that in the summer we get the right players in who can not only play the way Ten Hag wants but also suit the league and at the same time we get rid of those who cannot play this way. Just as important is that if as a club we are set on playing this style of football/Ten Hag's philosophy, then even when there is an injury crisis like this we shouldn't just abandon it and go back to a 4 2 3 1 which would suit the likes of Bruno, Rashford etc.
It's more a case of why would you bother being really over critical like as if we have lost, just enjoy the win ffs. If your first thought is to come in here and bitch about the manager after a good win then that's just weird behaviour. But some posters just enjoy being miserable clearly.
How is committing to a full high press a counter-attack tactic? We played man for man in the 2nd half.Its pretty clear that we have not found a solution yet despite having spent £400 million. We are best as a counter-attacking team and have been for a long time -- even under Fergie.
How is committing to a full high press a counter-attack tactic? We played man for man in the 2nd half.
Not even playing that bad.
No me neither. This discussion has been going on for a while. We aren’t a counter-attack team, but a team trying to force transitions.Kloppball? I wouldn't have an issue with that
This thread at half time yesterday was full of ‘sack Ten Hag’ and ‘we are fecking awful’ comments. Then Berbaclass comes out with this:
The reactions are hilarious. Kudos @Berbaclass
Also: watch the build-up to the disallowed goal.
This play was good but it doesn't mean we have a style of play when it's an anomaly occurring in few games. I can bring similar clips of us doing an organized counter attack full of short passes under Mourinho and Ole as well. It doesn't mean both played good football.
Style of play is something you watch regularly every game, not a single moment in one game.
Bruno was abysmal in the first half, but came up in the second. However he deserves to be dropped if he continues in his current form.Bruno was very good yesterday. It's the petualance that the fas don't like, but he has been nothing short of one of our best players over the last number of years.
Onana will go to the AFCON and we will see how our number 2 gets on.
Seriously? Did you watch it? Since when is playing through the press ‘Oleball’?Oleball.
He clearly has a style of play. Even when we were losing the style was there, it was just implemented very poorly - which yes was a fault of his which he would take ownership of.This play was good but it doesn't mean we have a style of play when it's an anomaly occurring in few games. I can bring similar clips of us doing an organized counter attack full of short passes under Mourinho and Ole as well. It doesn't mean both played good football.
Style of play is something you watch regularly every game, not a single moment in one game.
Noticed that too, I think he's pretty obviously copying the Arteta / Arsenal blueprint. We'll probably look garbage for spells but he's gambling on players like the three you've mentioned to develop into quality players by giving them plenty of game time.First one to beat Villa when they’ve been leading at HT. this season reminds me of the ones Arsenal had under Arteta. He played a lot of young players who wasn’t consistent but now they’re showing signs of a team. We’ve got 3 very young lads in the team in Hojlund, Garnacho and Mainoo.
Noticed that too, I think he's pretty obviously copying the Arteta / Arsenal blueprint. We'll probably look garbage for spells but he's gambling on players like the three you've mentioned to develop into quality players by giving them plenty of game time.
If it pays off then it’s good for the long run. Some fans don’t have patience and I get that, everyone once instant success. But I’m happy to develop young players and wait for our success to come. Liverpool and Arsenal had to wait. I think city are the only ones that got instant success and that was because they could just spend and spend. We’re doing it the proper way like Arsenal. Obviously we’ll have to spend aswel to improve and we have spent on rubbish but with Ratcliffe coming in… things should look different in a year or so.Noticed that too, I think he's pretty obviously copying the Arteta / Arsenal blueprint. We'll probably look garbage for spells but he's gambling on players like the three you've mentioned to develop into quality players by giving them plenty of game time.
Yes, Arteta invented that concept.I think he's pretty obviously copying the Arteta / Arsenal blueprint
Yes, Arteta invented that concept.
I never said Arsenal invented it but you'd have to be blind not to notice the parallels.It's not an Arsenal blueprint.
It's just a basic principle of squad building, you build around younger players with the idea that this squad with a few additional signings will grow, mature and peak together over 2-3 seasons. They will be ideally then be at their peak for 3-4 years, over that time you are expected to be winning trophies and competing across the top end every year.
I never said Arsenal invented it but you'd have to be blind not to notice the parallels.
You could draw the parallels back to when Utd did this repeatedly under SAF.
It's about having a vision and building towards it, which is why I find all the cries for him to be sacked odd. Either you just want to win the next game to be happy or you want the club to build towards being successful and maintaining levels for longer periods.
He is trying to do both at the same time: promoting youth and getting immediate reinforcements like Casemiro and Eriksen last season, as well as temporary signings to fill out the squad numbers: Amrabat, Evans.It's not an Arsenal blueprint.
It's just a basic principle of squad building, you build around younger players with the idea that this squad with a few additional signings will grow, mature and peak together over 2-3 seasons. They will be ideally then be at their peak for 3-4 years, over that time you are expected to be winning trophies and competing across the top end every year.
Mount is quite good on the ball. He just played a total of 8 fecking games. Come on guys - this is getting ridiculous.I think everyone can see what he is trying to do but the personnel just doesn't have it in them. Casemiro looks physically shot and is not that good on the ball, Mount whilst a good presser doesn't look effective with the ball and lack the athleticism to get back and support the midfield, Licha looks perfect for the CB designated to step up but ideally need a monstrous CB as partner who can cover ground whilst Bruno and Rashford are turnover magnets.
After our high press gets broken through we just don't have enough athleticism to win the ball back and it's always a risk with a player like Bruno in there because he will always risk losing ball in dangerous areas. I think you need a mobile version of Eriksen for the role Mount was brought in for, Mainoo or Gore could do that; a physically dominant but technically proficient DM and a world class CB who can cover ground to stall attacks as Licha gets back in position.
