Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24

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Just this season alone, how are we playing? Honestly, we are playing shit since 1st game of the season. Even in pre-season, we weren't scoring goals. Rashford had no goals if I am correct. Last season is just a new manager bounce and we were playing badly starting from Jan/Feb. ETH has successfully transform this team into a tier 2 team in EPL, if he remain in this job we might be relegated in 2 years time. There is nothing exciting about this club except a couple of young players coming on to gives some hope that the future is bright. I have not decided if I will watch this week game against Liverpool as it would only frustrate with the state of play seeing McTominay, Dalot and Lindeloft starting in XI. Maybe we will play since Bruno is banned, less ball giveaway.
 
I think I’ve talked myself into backing him to this point out of desperation for a manager to succeed. I’ve tried use the injuries as an excuse but I can’t feel like I can’t defend him anymore.

He’s too placid, his signings have been awful and whilst I get you’re not necessarily going to chuck your players under the bus, the games he references us ‘playing well’ makes me question his standards massively.
 
Things like another 7-0 loss at Anfield could be the tipping point but yeah the rest of this season is his job interview for INEOS. No excuses, one game a week and time on the training ground to develop a cohesive team that can fight for top 4. It’s up to him.
 
Amazing how quickly the Utd PR machine kicks into gear after a shambolic CL disaster.

All the UK journos seem to have a scoop about something or another, with yet again all gossip with zero actually tangible change being reported.
 
Of course there's no "appetite" amongst the current regime, because the current regime are incompetent tossers who aren't fit to be running Luton, never mind United.

Ratcliffe will swiftly sack him anyway so it doesn't really matter I suppose
 
Zoo said:
Things like another 7-0 loss at Anfield could be the tipping point but yeah the rest of this season is his job interview for INEOS. No excuses, one game a week and time on the training ground to develop a cohesive team that can fight for top 4. It’s up to him.
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100% agree with this. Plenty of time to rest and prepare for the upcoming opponent if he can't get top 4 he should be gone. I say this as mostly a Ten Hag in person.
 
I’d love to have his job. You can be terrible at it but as long as you can talk your way out of it by going on about ‘process’ and pull off a sophisticated lecture about tactics on YouTube your employer is going to hold you in high esteem and you get to keep your job.
 
NK86 said:
Maybe because they are hoping Ineos are about to come in and will do the dirty for them. No one can be blind enough to see how awful we have been.
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Ineos aren't coming in and immediately sacking the manager. There first objective is to provide a proper structure. They need to drag this club into the modern world.
 
JagUTD said:
Ineos aren't coming in and immediately sacking the manager. There first objective is to provide a proper structure. They need to drag this club into the modern world.
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It won't take long to implement a structure, they've had over a year to make arrangements and you'd hope they've gone one step further and actually started planning. I get that you're hoping it will be a clean slate for Ten Hag but new owners almost always means the current manager is on borrowed time, especially one struggling so badly.
 
AndySmith1990 said:
Of course there's no "appetite" amongst the current regime, because the current regime are incompetent tossers who aren't fit to be running Luton, never mind United.

Ratcliffe will swiftly sack him anyway so it doesn't really matter I suppose
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The sacking if any won't be coming from Ratcliffe. It will be coming from a new sporting structure that's been appointed by Ratcliffe.

We don't need another Ed Woodward in the ranks.
 
pocco said:
It won't take long to implement a structure, they've had over a year to make arrangements and you'd hope they've gone one step further and actually started planning. I get that you're hoping it will be a clean slate for Ten Hag but new owners almost always means the current manager is on borrowed time, especially one struggling so badly.
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Doubt it will be a clean slate but I do think they'll see what difference a proper structure makes given he's thrived under one previously.
 
JagUTD said:
Doubt it will be a clean slate but I do think they'll see what difference a proper structure makes given he's thrived under one previously.
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They’ll see what difference a proper structure makes. What does this mean? Give him a couple of seasons with someone else doing the firing and hiring of players? And then see how he gets on? Makes no sense to me, what is this magic structure that is going to help in the short to mid term
 
bosnian_red said:
This is a good but long thread detailing our defensive struggles with him, which are 100% down to his tactical setup.


And here's a note in it showing how Ajax had the same sort of issues, only they played in a much weaker league so they could keep confidence high, and the few times they played big games, they approached it full of confidence and with an underdog mentality, so even if they had the odd bad result, the confidence didn't drop. Put the same tactics in a tougher league more often, and you'd see a much different representation of Ajax IMO.

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Thank you for showing this. It has been quite clear since the beginning of the season, yet all our fans do is criticize the players (which is not to imply that they are infallible either). That defensive shape only worked in the Dutch League because none of the sides had the physicality or quality to take advantage of the obvious gaps created by his system. When you then add how fluid his system is, it makes it incredibly difficult to cope for the midfield and defence.

In addition, I believe that other components of his managerial style are unacceptable at a top club, particularly in a league as difficult as the Premier League. I don't think he can handle the physicality and tempo of the Premier League. Similar to LVG, his tactics in attack require too many things to work together, in a league in which time and space are not readily available. You can't afford to park 5 players on one side of the pitch in order to create chances. It can work, but it requires almost total domination. Something which United have not been able to acheive this season. It's the reason we haven't create chances for our strikers. Our fans have already turned on Hojlund, without realizing that he has literally not had the opportunity to show himself as a poor finisher. It's the reason I hate the media so much. They can take a basic stat like goals scored, and use it to blame the quality of the player. This despite the fact that Hojlund has shown in almost every way how good of a striker he could be. The only slight concern is that his touch isn't always perfect, something even Haaland can't say he has. We literally had Ronaldo here last season, we couldn't create chances for him. Ten Haag also seems to lack the urgency and in-game management skills that a manager in a major league would be expected to have. His decisions at the club are indicative of this. From his transfer window decisions, to his preseason preparations, his inability to spot in game changes quickly enough and his willingness to take ridiculous tactical risks without having a plan b; he's coming off like a novice. This is without even taking into account his man management style, training techniques and communication skills ( particularly given the language barrier), which I can't definitively make judgements on since they are internal, but from the outside look terrible.

My fear with United concerns how bad managers need to be before the club ultimately turns on them. The two 1/2 years it usually takes us are wasted seasons. You can't waste time and expect to improve and that's what people seem to be suggesting. I don't think it takes 2 and a half years to play good football. It might take that time span to build a top tier team that can challenge in all competitions, but in regard to style of play, it should not be take a team that actuallly has some quality player, moreso that most of the competition they play against, to actually show they can play good football. That part of things has nothing to do with club structure, that's about the manager, and in my opinon, I don't think any of the managers we've hired had proven, during their tenure at the club, that they deserved the time they were given in regard to play. As a club, we should never have excused that.
 
Zlatan 7 said:
They’ll see what difference a proper structure makes. What does this mean? Give him a couple of seasons with someone else doing the firing and hiring of players? And then see how he gets on? Makes no sense to me, what is this magic structure that is going to help in the short to mid term
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Until the summer? Not a whole lot other than taking some responsibilities away from him and bringing the club in line with just about every other serious club.

We operate like it's 1996. The 90s were great and all, arguably the peak decade for humanity and we all wish we could go back but it's time to move forward.
 
JagUTD said:
Doubt it will be a clean slate but I do think they'll see what difference a proper structure makes given he's thrived under one previously.
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How do you think any changes above Ten Hag will change things on the pitch anytime soon? We're looking at a new CEO, who won't directly affect that, and a new DoF. The DoF change will maybe take 12+ months to really bear fruit, mainly through recruitment. I don't think ETH lasts that long. I don't think we'll do anything in January and the summer will see a new manager anyway, if not before.

The other issue for ETH is that INEOS will task the DoF with bringing a vision of how we play football, and I'd bet my house it's not the football ETH is delivering. I just see no way forward for ETH.

There's been a lot of rumours about certain managers that INEOS like and I think they'll want their own man to start their 'revolution', which is generally always the case. It would be a bad look to talk a big game and then come and stick with a failing manager who was appointed by an incompetent regime.
 
El Zoido said:
insane and ridiculous team selections and tactical decisions, are indefensible.
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You might have a point if he had a fit healthy squad to pick from, but he’s down to bare bones with most of the first XI injured. We saw last season when we had a good run without injuries how settled and successful the team was.
He’s trying to use the players at his disposal to keep to his philosophies, presumably to keep some continuity of approach, but they are all technically limited players.
 
pocco said:
How do you think any changes above Ten Hag will change things on the pitch anytime soon? We're looking at a new CEO, who won't directly affect that, and a new DoF. The DoF change will maybe take 12+ months to really bear fruit, mainly through recruitment. I don't think ETH lasts that long. I don't think we'll do anything in January and the summer will see a new manager anyway, if not before.

The other issue for ETH is that INEOS will task the DoF with bringing a vision of how we play football, and I'd bet my house it's not the football ETH is delivering. I just see no way forward for ETH.

There's been a lot of rumours about certain managers that INEOS like and I think they'll want their own man to start their 'revolution', which is generally always the case. It would be a bad look to talk a big game and then come and stick with a failing manager who was appointed by an incompetent regime.
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A bit of stability. Some direction as well. Things nobody can claim we have now or at any point in the last decade.

They gave Viera time before sacking him.
 
city-puma said:
Potter was my first choice ahead of ETH then and still is. But, ETH shouldn’t be sacked now. At least not until the ownership saga is over and new people are put into charge.
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I think the rumor is the new guys have met with Potter a few times.
 
bosnian_red said:
I think the rumor is the new guys have met with Potter a few times.
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I agree this should not be simply ruled as rumor anymore. There is something floating behind the scenes.
Regardless, I personally hope we can radically change our so-called tradition and style to embrace the idea which is sustainable. Liverpool under Klopp is great but I don’t feel it sustainable year after year.
 
Njord said:
I see mainly three reasons for our underperforming.

Reason number one is the constant injuries. Espescially Martinez, Shaw and Malacia being out for so long has hurt us.

Secondly we have had to rely on a number of players who's not of the required quality: Onana, Dalot, AWB, Lindelöf, Evensen, Reguilon, Amrabat, McTominay, Anthony, (Garnacho, Höjlund). The last two are talented enough, but are not ready for the roles they have played this season.

The third reason is underperforming players: Varane, Casemiro, Eriksen, Fernandes, Rashford, Martial, Sancho. These players should be at the peak of their careers, and should be talented enough to be key players for us, but have been unavailable, low performing or shown no effort/proffesionalism.

How much of this can be attributed to our manager?
1. He might have pushed the team too hard in pre-season, causing injuries.
2. He has signed a lot of duds. Anthony doesn't have enough quality, and Mount is the wrong player for his role.
3. His set up demands high work rate from the forward, which do not favour his three most talented attackers, Rashford, Martial, Sancho.
4. His set up in midfield requires too much from the DM, espescially when Casemiro has become as immobile as he is now.

If we continue with ETH, he can't continue being in charge of transfers. But if someone can identify higher quality forwards, that fits his high pressing style, find a playmaking B2B midfielder, (which Mount and McTominay aren't), then I can see his style working better.
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Referring to point 1 do you think that the amount of travelling also played a part too. Would say he should have told the commercial team he didn't care about promoting the team all over the US. Chances are he wouldn't have got anywhere.
 
RedRocket9908 said:
Graham Potter linked again

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It's beyond insane that United would be battling it out with Championship side Stoke for a manager who is worse than our current one by every possible metric.

In fact it's so insane it's almost genius.
 
JagUTD said:
A bit of stability. Some direction as well. Things nobody can claim we have now or at any point in the last decade.

They gave Viera time before sacking him.
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I'm struggling to see what direction they could give ETH between now and the end of the season. It's his job to provide direction on the pitch.

Vieira and ETH at Nice and United isn't really comparable. The levels of investment and profile of the clubs will mean he can't afford to give ETH time. If it's true he's already met with Potter then it's game over already. If he's not out straight away then the first slip up and he'll be gone.
 
pocco said:
I'm struggling to see what direction they could give ETH between now and the end of the season. It's his job to provide direction on the pitch.

Vieira and ETH at Nice and United isn't really comparable. The levels of investment and profile of the clubs will mean he can't afford to give ETH time. If it's true he's already met with Potter then it's game over already. If he's not out straight away then the first slip up and he'll be gone.
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If Potter ever becomes United manager, it's game over for sure.
 
AndySmith1990 said:
Of course there's no "appetite" amongst the current regime, because the current regime are incompetent tossers who aren't fit to be running Luton, never mind United.

Ratcliffe will swiftly sack him anyway so it doesn't really matter I suppose
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This is what irks me. People talk about lack of structure so much, yet THIS is the lack of structure that's caused us issues over the years. The passiveness in overseeing the manager, simply trusting that the manager knows what he's doing and he'll move us in the right direction. It's not simply transfers, it's not squad management...it's this passive management.

When you really look at the bigger picture, its quite clear why this has been United's problem. We've had owners that know very little about the sport and want nothing to do with it. This could have worked with the right existing structure, eg. the coaching and executive setup under Sir Alex (if given the funds his successors have been afforded). However, the Glazers also decided to hire a senior management team with a limited understanding of the sport. So where other clubs had senior management and DOFs who could spot tactical and squad management errors, we had a team that let managers do whatever they wanted until their jobs ultimately became untenable due to widespread criticism.

Whereas other clubs are quick to implement new systems, sign new players, and fire wrong managers; we have been excrutiayingly slow for the last ten years. Not because of bad transfer windows, but because we placed entire trust in managers who should have been closely supervised. Because our senior leadership staff have had insufficient knowledge of football, the majority of decisions we make as a club have been reliant on public opinion. Ten Haag could practically come here with a 1-2-7 formation and no one would question it, despite the awful results it may deliver.

Managers have frequently taken advantage of this total liberty, implementing horrible tactics, employing poor man management practices, and chopping and changing the team as they saw fit, with few questions from Woodward/Arnold. People can blame Murtough all they want, but he has very little power. His role at United has been to ensure that the managers receive the players they desire or alternative replacements. That has been made abundantly apparent. He does not supervise the managers and does not compel them to accept transfers that they do not desire. If a manager has problems with high-profile players at Real Madrid, Perez will challenge him without hesitation. Only managers with Ancelotti's or Zidane's pedigree could get away with it because the club trusted their approach. It's the same approach taken by Bayern Munich, Barcelona, and every other top club that isn't Liverpool or Manchester City..
 
bosnian_red said:
This is a good but long thread detailing our defensive struggles with him, which are 100% down to his tactical setup.


And here's a note in it showing how Ajax had the same sort of issues, only they played in a much weaker league so they could keep confidence high, and the few times they played big games, they approached it full of confidence and with an underdog mentality, so even if they had the odd bad result, the confidence didn't drop. Put the same tactics in a tougher league more often, and you'd see a much different representation of Ajax IMO.

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Ajax got 18 points out of 6 games in CL group in 2021. Playing in a stronger league would not be a problem because of tactics, but because of a much smaller budget which would eventually catch up with Ajax.

The tactical setup is fine IF certain conditions are met which MU has trouble meeting right now. We will see Ten Hag either get it right or pivot to another setup. Providing he doesn’t get fired.
 
Potter will last another 18 months and get sacked. Would be a case of back to the shite predictable choices.
 
hobbers said:
Potter will last another 18 months and get sacked. Would be a case of back to the shite predictable choices.
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If we replace Ten Hag, Potter should not be on the list. He could not handle Chelsea and we are just as difficult a job.

My take is, keep Ten Hag until he himself gives up and wants out. Why? His friends and colleagues told him not to take the job because it is a disaster, but Eric relished the challenge.

That said, we are probably one bad loss away from firing him.
 
JagUTD said:
Until the summer? Not a whole lot other than taking some responsibilities away from him and bringing the club in line with just about every other serious club.

We operate like it's 1996. The 90s were great and all, arguably the peak decade for humanity and we all wish we could go back but it's time to move forward.
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This is what I was asking though as I’m genuinely curious and would like to know. What responsibilities would a proper structure above take away from him untill the summer.
 
Plant0x84 said:
You might have a point if he had a fit healthy squad to pick from, but he’s down to bare bones with most of the first XI injured. We saw last season when we had a good run without injuries how settled and successful the team was.
He’s trying to use the players at his disposal to keep to his philosophies, presumably to keep some continuity of approach, but they are all technically limited players.
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I keep seeing this first eleven injured comment and I know I should stop replying to it by now.
Against Munich we lined up
Onana
Dalot Maguire varane shaw (Martinez out)
Amrabat (Casemiro out)
Mctominay Bruno (Mount out, had been dropped anyway)
Anthony hojlund Garnacho (rashford out, had been dropped anyway)

how is that most of our first eleven out injured
 
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