Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24

Status
Not open for further replies.
I also don’t buy the “we look worse than last season”. Progress is not always linear. People also are failing to take into consideration all the shit Trn Hag has had to deal with. I can’t guarantee that ETH will take us where we want to be but I can’t accept there are grounds for sacking him.

There are grounds for sacking him. We have an expectation of where we want to go to as a club. There are question marks about if he would take us there as performances haven't given a good indication of that. We aren't creating good enough chances, our movement is poor, pace of play is slow and physicality lacking; whilst he's spent up to 400m on transfers. We're also close to being out of the champions league, despite being much stronger than Galatasaray and Copenhagen.

At this moment, I would want to see how he navigates this, but saying there are no grounds is completely wrong. As a club, after a year and a half, we have a right to question where he is taking us. The football on the pitch should be telling us this, but it's currently not. The aim as a club is not simply to get top 4 at the end of the season, but to get back to being at the top of the english game and be one of the top teams competing for the Champions League every year. The question here is can he take us there? The football doesn't say that.

The second reason I disagree with the notion is why the excuses for him exist. Players are blamed. The board is blamed. People want them replaced or sacked. TThey believe that Ten Haag is mostly operating properly and that everyone else is underperforming. Nonetheless, it is expected of him to be accountable for these on-field performances. Why should Mount's value be diminished just because a team purchased him without a defined vision of how to use him effectively? Despite scoring 30 goals the previous season, Rashford is under scrutiny, but nobody is criticizing the strategy or system for not giving him the chances to perform as well as he did. We are questioning Bruno, who has been essential to us, when he is being shuffled around the pitch in games and isn't being put into positions where he can create. Varane and Casemiro are under scrutiny because ETH's strategies have left them exposed to defensively in every game this season.

Every other person at the club is being questioned, yet the person who sees the whole pitch, trains the players and communicates these tactical instructions should be absolved. We have no clue what he's saying or doing that could be creating this mess. There could be clear communication gaps on his end. His tactics may simply be failing due to the differences in the league. Yet fans are willing to question the intelligence of the players in these circumstances, and not the manager's ability to institute the tactics.Those players were also successes elsewhere. Antony and VDB were considered good players at Ajax. Yet we can all acknowledge the difference in the pace and quality of the league, but can't use the same anology for the manager.

Then we get to senior management. For me, this is even worse. Arnold and Murtough have been hung out to dry. People don't have any idea of what goes on behind the scenes concerning transfers. All we know for sure is that Murtough was able to get a notable amount of players into the squad, with all indications suggesting they were requested and approved by the manager. Casemiro was praised by ETH and the media for being world class on so many occassions. Eriksen was praised as a good free transfer and Malacia was a good Shaw back up. We also know that ETH made the request for Antony, which the football operations team made happen despite the hefty fee. The same thing occured this summer with Mount. We replaced De Gea as fans also wanted us to do. In addition a good young striker was bought.

Yet all of a sudden, now that things on the pitch aren't working out and Ten Haag's system to use Mount has failed, its senior management's fault again. "Sack Arnold and Murtough", " I feel sorry for ETH and all he has to go through". Why? He's the manager. He's been supported financially. In terms of player relations, part of his job is managing those situations. Managers granted far less money have to sit with squads, whilst not liking the abilities of 90 percent of the squads they have. Yet can still put out good football. Season to season, I don't think United fans understand how many injuries other clubs have to go through and how dependent lower teams are on those starting players. What do you think managers that don't have 400m over two seasons in spending have to deal with? Yet those managers are expected to perform, avoid relegation and handle team incidents in house.

Yet somehow the people who are not on the training ground or on the touchline area are at fault for this (Murtough and Arnold). Noone cares that they also have careers, that they also have families, that they may also want the best for the club, when making the evaluation to let them go. Yet they consider so many factors for Erik Ten Haag. You could make the argument that Murtough has only been in that role for 3 transfer windows, so deserves more time. Yet why is no one saying the same for Murough? Understand, this isn't me simply defending Murtough and Arnold. It's me trying to highlight the hypocrisy in not putting a heavy spotlight on Ten Haag for current failings.

For me, the scary thing is, how long can we perform poorly before people shine a spotlight on him. The players can always be used as a screen when things don't go well on the pitch. Senior Management can always be used as a screen for transfers. So what's his actual responsibility?
 
Last edited:
Not seen mentioned, but Ten Hag is trying to implement high pressing this season and we have forced the most turnovers in the league.

It is something that should be mentioned when discussing what Ten Hag is trying to achieve, no?

No, how dare you.
He is a fraud, he should go immediately.
 
I’m just telling you that consistently beating them and beating them well does not happen in this league. You can if and but all you want with crying about the manager since wins doesn’t suit your argument but it is what it is. I just watched Forest beat Villa a week after this forum had a thread of will Villa finish above us?! Maybe go back to watch highlights of the early 2000 EPL if you want that, that’s not Ten Hag or any top manager in the EPL fault.
Wait until Brentford does Liverpool and holds them to a scrappy draw / really narrow Liverpool win tomorrow but you won’t be anywhere to be seen because it’s yet another example against your argument but you’ll be straight on here in a fortnight pissing and moaning when it’s Everton 0 - 1 Utd (Reguillon 90)

It seems like Liverpool didn't actually struggle against Brentford as you were claiming. More of a proof the Luton game was a one off for them, unlike our shitty form against every single team we face.
 
Whoever the DoF is should be leading it all. For all the goodwill EtH has, Antony & Mount mean his influence on signings should be marginalised.

I can’t remember who it was on OTC but they rightly said he’s not a DoF so shouldn’t be judged as such so asking him to buy players is ridiculous. EtH should coach, have some input on players but under no circumstances should he have final say on any transfers.
I completely disagree. If he doesn’t have final say on transfers then he cannot be held accountable for recruitment. If we don’t win, there will always be arguments about whose fault it is.

The director of football should be in charge of the administration and execution of all the agreed strategies. The manager should have ultimate responsibility for all football matters.

Granted, you have to be careful when you recruit your manager. You might recruit him based on how well he fits the existing strategy, fine, but you have to then concentrate the authority where it matters.

There is no sense at all giving all the authority to a DoF unless you are going to sack him if you don’t win.
 
It's a way of making us as a club seem more incompetent, when its just a lazy statement.

Correct.

The missing link is that when people talk about "the DoF setting a playing style and implementing it via manager/players," they are assuming success on the pitch. But that's not a given.

Imagine the scenario where Guardiola does not succeed in the PL. His second and third seasons are as unremarkable as the first. He succeeds at implementing the style, but it doesn't actually work at winning titles, other teams beat City regularly enough that they are stuck in 3rd/4th place.

Are they supposed to just keep trying? Hiring a manager similar to Guardiola? Keep signing the same type of players? Would that be the competent thing to do? Of course not!
 
That’s not how it works when you have a DOF. He sets the playing style and recruits a manager and players who can deliver that. You’ve seen for yourself what a mess we’ve got into just letting each manager set his own playing style and recruit the players he wants. There’s no continuity at all.
Is that no how it works, oh well, feck me sideways.

I’m saying it should work that way. The “other” way there is no clear accountability.
 
Exactly the opposite of how any successful club is run in this day and age
I’m not so sure the likes of Pep cede any meaningful authority. In any case, I don’t like it. As I’ve said, if you split the accountability between the manager and DoF, you can go for years sacking good managers because your DoF is no good.
 
I’m not so sure the likes of Pep cede any meaningful authority. In any case, I don’t like it. As I’ve said, if you split the accountability between the manager and DoF, you can go for years sacking good managers because your DoF is no good.

Which is not what has happened to us, because we've had no DoF and therefore no accountability for shit managerial appointments and signings.

You can just let the manager spend £400m on his own targets and then have nothing to show for it. That's going well for us.
 
No, how dare you.
He is a fraud, he should go immediately.

Trying to implement something and failing doesn't absolve him. If you institue a high press and you can't put it together with other patterns of play, how in any way does that help the team. Trying isn't succeeding. Other teams can do this without completely destroying their playing style. Poor excuse
 
For those worried about the style of football we are playing under EtH, just a reminder that the back 4 yesterday was the same (apart from Reguillon for Telles) as Ralf Rangnicks first game in charge for us.

He's done well to be ahead of Newcastle and to be this near to the top given the hand he's been dealt.
 
A fixed playing style determined by the DoF, with recruitment based around it, is quite useful for a smaller club, because turnover will be high. They can't keep players and managers that long, so using a defined style as an anchor is helpful. You look at Brighton and the players they've sold, they last 1-4 years.

If you're a top club, the turnover is far slower. The players and the managers should be the anchor.

This is largely true, but requires top clubs to have a base of genuine quality in their squads, and players that are adaptable to the different managers.

However, I think an important point is that football has always had something of a "meta", and certain broad styles prove more effective at the top of the game than others, so the actual difference in style is unlikely to be that stark and require massive overhaul. There's also the point that changing from more a conservative style to a more expansive style is far harder than the other way around.

What United have been missing is that base of quality. It's all well and good pointing at transfer spend, which has been ridiculous, but that money hasn't brought in the quality of player it should have.

Correct.

The missing link is that when people talk about "the DoF setting a playing style and implementing it via manager/players," they are assuming success on the pitch. But that's not a given.

Imagine the scenario where Guardiola does not succeed in the PL. His second and third seasons are as unremarkable as the first. He succeeds at implementing the style, but it doesn't actually work at winning titles, other teams beat City regularly enough that they are stuck in 3rd/4th place.

Are they supposed to just keep trying? Hiring a manager similar to Guardiola? Keep signing the same type of players? Would that be the competent thing to do? Of course not!

Well that's why a clear structure helps. If you're signing players and hiring managers to fit a particular system/style of play but that doesn't deliver the results you expect, then at some point you need to change the system you're focusing on, and that might require a new DoF, or simply a change in plan.

However, you're more likely to find the squad is adaptable when you've filled it with athletic, technically gifted players with good mentalities. United certainly haven't done that.

I would argue that United have shown enough manager turnover without anything to show for it, and enough haphazard transfer business that in itself has seen a fair amount of turnover, for stricter DoF control to be a necessity at least for a while. The base gets rockier every time we restart the process.

Regardless of how much control a DoF has when it comes to dictating the style of football (which I don't think is too defined, because ultimately the specific tactics are the responsibility of the manager), there is certainly a need for one to properly take control of the recruitment and squad building processes, especially when United's current (lack of) structure leaves some weird mix of obvious manager picks and random forced signings by what are ultimately not football people.
 
I fully believe this. Ten Hag intimated Kane ("experienced striker") was supposed to come in alongside Hojlund and the club should have spent that crazy money, but a rebuttal could just as easily be, "You did have £80m to spend, and even if it was part of the funds intended to try for Kane, that perhaps should have been spent better elsewhere rather than on Antony "

Except that whole Antony saga was also debunked by @Adnan. United shouldv walked away but decided to pay 35 (thirty five) million premium on the last few days of a transferwindow over his original value. Even if ETH was begging, crying on his knees for him, someone shouldv talk some sense into him and said: no. We will not buy.

And United has a litany of these idiot signings or waste of money. 300k a week on aging Rooney. 500k a week on way past it CR7. Injured Falcao. Di Maria. Pogba! A guy who was more busy with emoticon design and flashing them on pitch advertisment boards than actual footbal.

There is now a whole list of managers who said or are confirmed to have asked for other players than they got. And here is Rene Meulensteen, 12-11-2023 the latest, saying how Kane was discussed but deemed "too old" by The Glazers. They even couldv gotten him not for such a crazy price they had on Osimhen (150 million) but Bayern eventually paid a mere 110 million for a guy that has now banged in 17 goals in 11 games.

The powers that be at United are certified idiots. They make Everton look like a well run club. There is a vast scouting structure that is well, well ignored and the guy rubber stamping deals like that 500k a week CR7, guys like him is what breaks this club, breaks each and every manager. LvG, Jose, OGS all saying the same things: we didnt get the players we wanted. At some point the finger pointing towards ETH has to stop.

Harry Kane, one of the top 10 players in the world, probably in the top 3 best strikers, was available for United this summer. The Glazers, not ETH, said no.
 
This is largely true, but requires top clubs to have a base of genuine quality in their squads, and players that are adaptable to the different managers.

However, I think an important point is that football has always had something of a "meta", and certain broad styles prove more effective at the top of the game than others, so the actual difference in style is unlikely to be that stark and require massive overhaul. There's also the point that changing from more a conservative style to a more expansive style is far harder than the other way around.

What United have been missing is that base of quality. It's all well and good pointing at transfer spend, which has been ridiculous, but that money hasn't brought in the quality of player it should have.



Well that's why a clear structure helps. If you're signing players and hiring managers to fit a particular system/style of play but that doesn't deliver the results you expect, then at some point you need to change the system you're focusing on, and that might require a new DoF, or simply a change in plan.

However, you're more likely to find the squad is adaptable when you've filled it with athletic, technically gifted players with good mentalities. United certainly haven't done that.

I would argue that United have shown enough manager turnover without anything to show for it, and enough haphazard transfer business that in itself has seen a fair amount of turnover, for stricter DoF control to be a necessity at least for a while. The base gets rockier every time we restart the process.

Regardless of how much control a DoF has when it comes to dictating the style of football (which I don't think is too defined, because ultimately the specific tactics are the responsibility of the manager), there is certainly a need for one to properly take control of the recruitment and squad building processes, especially when United's current (lack of) structure leaves some weird mix of obvious manager picks and random forced signings by what are ultimately not football people.
Agreed and the main advantage is it brings stability from manager to manager. As soon as a manager leaves the DOF knows what he’s looking for and probably already has a shortlist of targets who excel in the playing style of the club. It means the new manager doesn’t have to rebuild the squad in his own image, all - or most of - the players he needs are already in place. It’s continuity throughout the club, not an earthquake every time the manager changes.
 
Which is not what has happened to us, because we've had no DoF and therefore no accountability for shit managerial appointments and signings.

You can just let the manager spend £400m on his own targets and then have nothing to show for it. That's going well for us.
You mean we’ve had no DoF all these years? Gee.

People get bogged down with what the job titles of people are. There was always somebody responsible for appointing the manager wasn’t there? I mean they didn’t appoint themselves did they? The components of the DoF roles were being done by a rag tag bunch of idiots who interfered where they had no competence.

If the manager is shit you sack him, of course. If he has authority then it’s clear that he is responsible.

There are lots of “jobs” that need doing at a football club, everybody knows that. I would be very happy for us to set up a good structure where all these little jobs are being done by competent people with clear responsibilities.

Giving a manager authority over recruitment is not the same as giving him a blank chequebook and letting him get on with it. It means giving him executive authority at the top of the recruitment pyramid. We still need the best possible people working under him.

The key moment is the appointment of the manager. This can be done by the board under the advice of the DoF or equivalent. The essential thing is to bring in a manager who fits the club and won’t tear down a good thing (assuming you have a good thing). Once he is appointed he should take full responsibility for football matters.

The DoF should work with the manager to execute the agreed strategy and act as a link between the manager and the board, providing advice to both. Where a manager is failing and ignoring the advice of the DoF then it’s clear that the failure is on the manager.

Continuity is important, especially when you have built a good thing. Our present problem is that we haven’t built a good thing. We have finally appointed a manager whose mission in life is to build a long term success. A guy who is obsessed with detail on every level of the club. A guy who puts development ahead of short term results (it seems!). By all means bring in a DoF but recruit someone with a similar outlook, similar football values. Get the two working together, building together, leave the responsibility with the manager and sack him if we have to. Let the DoF provide a link between this manager and the next, great, but, again, pass the responsibility to the new manager.

I couldn’t care less if “no other club does this”. That’s how I think we’ll get the best outcomes from this point forward.
 
We've had a pretty bad injury list at times. Even yesterday we were without Timber, White, Partey, Odegaard and Jesus - half of our first choice outfielders were missing. We also had Smith-Rowe and Nketiah out, so we were forced to play Trossard up front, who is 3rd choice at best.

Partey, Zinchenko, Jesus, Saliba, Tomiyasu, Martinelli, Smith-Rowe and Timber have all had major injuries that have kept them out for several months in the last couple of years.

All teams have injuries. I think United's seem worse because (1) It's your team so your awareness is a lot higher and (2) It doesn't seem to having as adverse an effect on other teams.

We've also had our fair share of drama. Ozil was criticised for his comments on China and refusing to take a Covid pay cut (which I agreed with about, btw) and forced out. Aubameyang was suspended, stripped of the captaincy and sold. There are other issues that can't be discussed.

You'll find injuries and drama at all clubs, basically.
@Daydreamer I mean more early in his tenure but I take your point. I don’t think however any club has dealt with the defensive disruption we have and certainly not in the building the club phase.

Dec 2019 he started so that’s 8 windows to be able to deal with disruption. We’re looking at the equivalent here of what was Arteta’s Arsenal like in the period between Jan 2021 and Summer 2021 in terms of time with the squad etc (Ten Hag has been manager for 1 year 5 months and 19 days).

Jan 2020
Summer 2020
Jan 2021
Summer 2021

Jan 2022
Summer 2022
Jan 2023
Summer 2023

It’s one thing experiencing injuries to a squad you’ve developed over 8 transfer windows and if I’m remembering correctly there wasn’t a huge issue between that period other than Arsenal not performing to the standard expected and finishing 8th.

Essentially in that context I think it’s a fecking miracle we’re still close enough to the top of the table given how much has gone wrong this season.

Edit: Also your injury list has just started to pile up now whereas we’ve had them since GW1
 
Ive got a feeling that if the rumours are true and SJR's investment is announced in the week one of his first decisions will be to sack Erik and bring his own man in.
 
Chelsea conceded a penalty first but they were not beaten. They went toe to toe. We were well beaten in the similar situation. Don’t know what else can be said.
 
Only 7 points off the pace despite his ‘disaster’ start
With an impressive GD of -3 - worst in the top 11.

13 goals scored - in the top 15 only Wolves have scored fewer with 12 goals.

On top of that we're out of the League Cup and on the way out of the CL. Something has to happen soon.
 
Galatasaray and Bayern game should determine his future. We should have gotten out of this group and we still can. He will have to show that he can get this team performing well when it matters. Else we will just be delaying the inevitable
 
With an impressive GD of -3 - worst in the top 11.

13 goals scored - in the top 15 only Wolves have scored fewer with 12 goals.

On top of that we're out of the League Cup and on the way out of the CL. Something has to happen soon.

Out of the league cup because we got knocked out by the other finalist of last season is hardly a reason to be sacked.
 
How dare these players like ETH support tweets, out of all people they should know best that he is a fraud!
 
7 points off City who would play Liverpool after the break. If hold themselves to a draw, and we win against Everton, title race is on like donkey kong :drool:
 
The “only 6/7 points off Arsenal/City” posts remind me of that Christmas period during Moyes’ year where we picked up points and went on a run vs poor teams and people got excited. Once the games got tougher we got exposed.

Performance and points eventually tie up the longer the season goes on. We can’t attack and we can’t defend either, so if we keep up this level of performance the 6/7 point gap which people seem to be proud of will double this time next month.
 
Which is not what has happened to us, because we've had no DoF and therefore no accountability for shit managerial appointments and signings.

You can just let the manager spend £400m on his own targets and then have nothing to show for it. That's going well for us.
Nothing to show for it? Hyperbole is real.
 
I think we've done well (gotten a bit lucky?) to be in the position we are in despite lots of injuries to key players. I hope that we could make one smart signing in January, and that plus Shaw and Martinez coming back into the team could see our performance level tick up a few notches. If things break right, we can maybe still qualify for the champion's league. That's probably about the best we can realistically hope for from the season.
 
Out of the league cup because we got knocked out by the other finalist of last season is hardly a reason to be sacked.
Being humiliated 0-3 at home vs a team mainly consisting of their reserves doesn't look too good though, does it?

In combination with the other points I made and the fact that he's wasted so much money is starting to constitute a sackable offense imo.
 
I think we've done well (gotten a bit lucky?) to be in the position we are in despite lots of injuries to key players. I hope that we could make one smart signing in January, and that plus Shaw and Martinez coming back into the team could see our performance level tick up a few notches. If things break right, we can maybe still qualify for the champion's league. That's probably about the best we can realistically hope for from the season.

I don’t think we have been lucky at all. I don’t think we were lucky in Europe, quite the opposite.

I think anytime we have started well we have been poor at taking our chances. I feel like we’ve gotten no breaks in games , sometime down to us being very poor after scoring and sometime a ref or VAR decision knocking us off our stride or injuries affecting our performance.
 
Last edited:
Being humiliated 0-3 at home vs a team mainly consisting of their reserves doesn't look too good though, does it?

In combination with the other points I made and the fact that he's wasted so much money is starting to constitute a sackable offense imo.

Who do we replace him with Chip?
 
Being humiliated 0-3 at home vs a team mainly consisting of their reserves doesn't look too good though, does it?

In combination with the other points I made and the fact that he's wasted so much money is starting to constitute a sackable offense imo.
We made 8 changes for that game form an already depleted squad
 
Being humiliated 0-3 at home vs a team mainly consisting of their reserves doesn't look too good though, does it?

In combination with the other points I made and the fact that he's wasted so much money is starting to constitute a sackable offense imo.
It's the job of the director of football to ratify signings, not just on the manager. It's getting really weird how people want to sack ten hag as manager because he was a poor director of football. Unless you think Ten Hag alone has the remit to greenlight and propose signings (which he doesn't).
 
Except that whole Antony saga was also debunked by @Adnan. United shouldv walked away but decided to pay 35 (thirty five) million premium on the last few days of a transferwindow over his original value. Even if ETH was begging, crying on his knees for him, someone shouldv talk some sense into him and said: no. We will not buy.

And United has a litany of these idiot signings or waste of money. 300k a week on aging Rooney. 500k a week on way past it CR7. Injured Falcao. Di Maria. Pogba! A guy who was more busy with emoticon design and flashing them on pitch advertisment boards than actual footbal.

There is now a whole list of managers who said or are confirmed to have asked for other players than they got. And here is Rene Meulensteen, 12-11-2023 the latest, saying how Kane was discussed but deemed "too old" by The Glazers. They even couldv gotten him not for such a crazy price they had on Osimhen (150 million) but Bayern eventually paid a mere 110 million for a guy that has now banged in 17 goals in 11 games.

The powers that be at United are certified idiots. They make Everton look like a well run club. There is a vast scouting structure that is well, well ignored and the guy rubber stamping deals like that 500k a week CR7, guys like him is what breaks this club, breaks each and every manager. LvG, Jose, OGS all saying the same things: we didnt get the players we wanted. At some point the finger pointing towards ETH has to stop.

Harry Kane, one of the top 10 players in the world, probably in the top 3 best strikers, was available for United this summer. The Glazers, not ETH, said no.
Its now confirmed by Rene Meulensteen, former United assistant coach in The Guardian, that The Glazers pulled the plug on a Harry Kane move.


“We never felt any kind of influence on us on a daily basis,” Meulensteen says of his time working under the Glazers at United. “I doubt there’s any influence now because the Glazers are 4,000 miles away.

“The only thing you can question is the backing of the managers – and, yes, they’ve backed them with finances. But you saw Ole Gunnar Solskjær come out and say ‘I wanted X player, X player’ and none came. For example, signing Harry Kane this summer was guaranteeing 25 to 30 goals, but they didn’t do it because they thought he was too old."

As if getting Weghorst wasnt indication enough, Ten Hag is coaching with his hands tied behind his back and you can put that 400 million spending on his name, but those are buys that werent his first choice or, more apparent, not his choice at all. (As an aside, this also gives OGS a bit of shine back. He, too, was shafted by The Glazers.)

The sooner The Glazers are out, the better.

Are you aware of the fact that Meulensteen has left the club in 2013? So ranting about what he thinks went on this summer, is a pretty pointless exercise. He is not far more than a fan these days, he is a professional, so on certain questions, it makes sense to listen to him but about current events, it is pretty daft. You just like to believe it because it fits your (in this aspect pretty shortsighted) point of view.
 
Not seen mentioned, but Ten Hag is trying to implement high pressing this season and we have forced the most turnovers in the league.

It is something that should be mentioned when discussing what Ten Hag is trying to achieve, no?
There's more than that actually. From https://www.theguardian.com/footbal...r-united-chaos-so-has-gambled-on-embracing-it:
While most of United’s metrics have fallen off a cliff this season, there are several important areas in which they have either held firm or even improved. High turnovers – defined as winning possession within 40 metres of the opposition goal – is one. United were sixth on this measure last season; this season they are top, with almost 11 turnovers per game. Passes per opposition defensive action – a measure of how fluently they are playing out from the back – are up 11%. Progressive passes are up 12%. United led the league for direct attacks last season and are third this time. The average speed of their attacks has increased.
For those who are curious how this is contextualized (and can't be bothered to read the full article), here is part of the subsequent bit (there's more before and after):
For all the talk of Ten Hag being a more pragmatic coach than his Cruyff-Guardiola lineage might have you believe, all this actually represents something of a daring gamble. Ten Hag’s ideas may have been his own, but he has also learned from his predecessors. He has seen how the obsessive search for control derailed coaches such as Louis van Gaal and José Mourinho.

He has seen how Solskjær was ultimately undone by the inability of his teams to form a coordinated press. And most important, he has decided that at a club as big and wild as United, where the noise is deafening and every defeat is a crisis, true stability will always be an illusion. You can’t tame the chaos. So you may as well embrace it.

In the short term, this has turned United into an objectively bad football team, brittle and unable to control games, prone to giving away goals in quick succession. Seven times this season United have conceded three goals or more (they only did it six times in the whole of 2022-23). But in their better moments, you can also see glimpses of how it may ultimately work. Late in the game against Copenhagen, United won a high turnover and created a golden chance for Scott McTominay that would have put them 4-2 up with 10 minutes left.

And so Ten Hag’s big gamble is that once these fine margins start breaking his way, once the defensive injuries clear up, once Højlund hits his stride, once Mount gets up to speed, United will finally have a defined and authentic style of play. A crowd-pleasing, commercially fruitful game of permanent transitions, executed by quick direct players who thrive in broken field.

Of course, it could all blow up long before that. Luton visit Old Trafford on Saturday and pretty much every scoreline from 3-4 to 0-0 to 7-0 is conceivable. United are always perfectly capable of failing again. But perhaps they are, at least, in a position to fail better.
 
The “only 6/7 points off Arsenal/City” posts remind me of that Christmas period during Moyes’ year where we picked up points and went on a run vs poor teams and people got excited. Once the games got tougher we got exposed.

Performance and points eventually tie up the longer the season goes on. We can’t attack and we can’t defend either, so if we keep up this level of performance the 6/7 point gap which people seem to be proud of will double this time next month.
I don't bother looking at the top as I know this group of group players won't have the consistency to keep pace. Finishing 5th will do (should claim a spot in next seasons expanded CL) which won't be easy got with a number of teams chasing it or might fall to 5th.

It's looking like early 2024 before Ten Hag can get close to selecting his first choice team. For now it's about soldering on with a 2nd choice back four, midfield with little chemistry and trying to bed in 20 year old striker and left wondering can Rashford find any goal scoring form again.
 
It's the job of the director of football to ratify signings, not just on the manager. It's getting really weird how people want to sack ten hag as manager because he was a poor director of football. Unless you think Ten Hag alone has the remit to greenlight and propose signings (which he doesn't).
So did Murtough sign Antony, Wout, Amrabat, and Mount against the wish of ETH who wanted other players in?
 
I don't bother looking at the top as I know this group of group players won't have the consistency to keep pace. Finishing 5th will do (should claim a spot in next seasons expanded CL) which won't be easy got with a number of teams chasing it or might fall to 5th.

It's looking like early 2024 before Ten Hag can get close to selecting his first choice team. For now it's about soldering on with a 2nd choice back four, midfield with little chemistry and trying to bed in 20 year old striker and left wondering can Rashford find any goal scoring form again.
Of course we are missing Shaw, Martinez and Casemiro but those players were available for our first two games. Casemiro has been terrible all season.
 
So did Murtough sign Antony, Wout, Amrabat, and Mount against the wish of ETH who wanted other players in?

The point (that has been repeated ad nauseum now) is that the DoF shouldn't just do whatever the manager wants.

Aside from the other issues surrounding manager targets, paying what we paid for Antony was absurd, even if he was Ten Hag's pick.

Wout was essentially an emergency loan who was quite clearly never the main target for his position.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.