Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24

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gaffs said:
Massive waste of money.

Antony, Mount and Casemiro are awful deals.

I would have gone for Joao Palhinha, Olise, Maddison (all Premier League Proven) and you would still have had change for a center back.

To think what we are paying Mason Mount, unwanted at Chelsea, more a week than Maddison, when Mount only had a year left on his contact, as well as £20mil more on the transfer fee. It hurts.
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Completely agree. Dominik Szoboszlai to Liverpool was a similar fee and he is on half the wages of Mount too.

Ten Hag has to shoulder a lot of blame over transfers over the past 12 months.
 
MegadrivePerson said:
It's not that the club is skint, it's more to do with wasting money.

Ten Hag has been given £400 million to spend in 12 months, the way that £400 million has been spent has been abysmal.
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Casemiro 60m and Antony 85m were all panic buys from the board after we lost our first 2 matches. In what way is it Ten Hag's fault the club waited til the season started to complete these deals?

It takes us our entire summer to sign Hojlund and Amrabat (on loan because of FFP) to the point they have no preseason.

Same mistakes again and again from the top of the club
 
Licha-Vidic said:
True as you say, and it re-confirms my stand.

Win the league previous season, it's on you as a coach.
Perform poorly next season, it's on you as a coach, you're sacked.
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But for us here, good play is on ETH but bad play is on Glazers and Board.
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Exactly this logic is absolutely ridiculous. I'm surprised that many posters on here at mature ages are referring to this defence mechanism of the manager to absolve him of blame.

Erik has everything to prove just as much as these players. We're not talking about Klopp, Pep or even Zidane. This move to United he's having to prove himself. Did well at Ajax as did De Boer winning four domestic titles consecutively but Ajax (outstanding club with history) respectfully is not the pinnacle of competitive football.
 
holdsteady said:
Casemiro 60m and Antony 85m were all panic buys from the board after we lost our first 2 matches. In what way is it Ten Hag's fault the club waited til the season started to complete these deals?

It takes us our entire summer to sign Hojlund and Amrabat (on loan because of FFP) to the point they have no preseason.

Same mistakes again and again from the top of the club
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Not true at all the balk of the singings this season were at a good time. There's was many posts about this it was actually a period where the manager had a good selection of new signings during pre season. The reason why it doesn't matter because the pre season didn't even rejuvenate the players performance levels. So United could have signed Hojlund and Amrabat the day the window opened and still the team would have underperformed.

We have seen valid reports from journalists that Erik disregarded the scouts in his first season as realistically the new infrastructure was only just put in place so it's understandable. This narrative that Murtough who's as inept as ever has spearheaded the recruitment decisions against the managers wishes is laughable. The problem at United is not with backing the manager it's taking it a step further and overindulging the manager.
 
crossy1686 said:
I was under the impression Rangnick and his consultancy firm (whatever that is) would be our DOF, does that involve just sourcing players and squad building? Or does it extend to negotiating also? I don't know but it's hard to say that wouldn't be an improvement on what's currently happening and I'm not sure why the manager would veto that if they have no experience in that field.
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Supporting/Consulting the DoF Murtough, not replacing him. Probably that would however involved slapping some common sense into him about how to negotiate transfers and identify targets. So no direct participation but indirectly having the effect you wish for.
 
crossy1686 said:
Who though? And when has this worked? Any DOF that's ever done anything worth noting can't replicate it at another club than the one they originally did it at. They coast around and end up at Monaco or Roma before disappearing to a. consultancy firm or France's second division.

Tottenham hired a DOF, look how that turned out.
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Any of Mitchell/Edwards/Campos/Berta just to see if that could at least improve recruitment
 
holdsteady said:
Casemiro 60m and Antony 85m were all panic buys from the board after we lost our first 2 matches. In what way is it Ten Hag's fault the club waited til the season started to complete these deals?

It takes us our entire summer to sign Hojlund and Amrabat (on loan because of FFP) to the point they have no preseason.

Same mistakes again and again from the top of the club
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It's Ten Hag's fault because he should have realised that signing a 30 year old Casemiro for £60 million was only ever going to be a stop gap signing.

Antony was very clearly a Ten Hag signing and after 12 months he looks a million miles away from being an elite signing.

As I just mentioned, the signings of Hojlund and Amrabat could have been completed a lot sooner if we'd kept De Gea and not signed Mount. But Ten Hag prioritised Onana and Mount over Hojlund and Amrabat.
 
MegadrivePerson said:
It's Ten Hag's fault because he should have realised that signing a 30 year old Casemiro for £60 million was only ever going to be a stop gap signing.

Antony was very clearly a Ten Hag signing and after 12 months he looks a million miles away from being an elite signing.

As I just mentioned, the signings of Hojlund and Amrabat could have been completed a lot sooner if we'd kept De Gea and not signed Mount. But Ten Hag prioritised Onana and Mount over Hojlund and Amrabat.
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The idea that its some coincidence we have signed a load of players from Ajax or Dutch league is a joke. Who exactly was obsessed with signing FDJ I wonder?
 
gaffs said:
I think that is such BS.

The only people worrying about their jobs will be the likes of Arnold and Murtaugh. That fear isn't working its way down to players. That is just an excuse.
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It's not just about fearing for their jobs though. The fact that Arnold and Murtough fear for their jobs is enough to destabilize the club. They are in positions of power. Glazers are mostly hands-off anyway so Arnold and Murtough run the day-to-day of the club. If they don't know their own future, there is very little chance that they will lay down a strong environment for everyone at the club. It flows through meetings, interactions, and messages. The manager doesn't get clear answers from the top, the coaching staff senses uncertainty from the manager, and so on.

I understand that people think a change in manager will make things better. Changing the manager is the easiest decision to make in usual circumstances. But, firstly, I don't think there is anyone within United who is empowered enough to even think about managerial succession right now. To fire EtH means having to hire a new manager and to hire a new manager you need to be able to talk about future plans around investment and reporting structures. Secondly, no blue-chip manager in their right mind will take a job in this current situation. This is the point Gary Neville keeps making and I think he is right. The very first thing to do is to answer what the short-term and medium-term situation will look like. This miasma of uncertainty will suck everything into its orbit. The situation will continue to get more toxic.

If EtH manages to get us out of this hole, I'd count it as one of the most impressive managerial achievements of the last few years. Extremely unlikely though. We are in for tough times.
 
Matt851 said:
No one in their right mind thought it was a miracle. He wasn't in the running for manager of the season. We had a good season, aided by some other top teams having bad seasons, but the arse fell out of the season after the caribou final
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If so more than half of the caf were not in their right mind back then. Check this very thread and you'd see.

Tbh I'm getting tired of some people being so biased here. We're being crap atm and ETH must take the majority of the blame, regardless of how many injuries we have or if the players downing tools or not. But why some have to keep trying to deny and downplay what he has done here last season.

The caf is always too fecking extremely biased. If he's good he must be perfect and could do nothing wrong. If he's bad he must be shite and could do nothing right or good. He's also human so obviously he will do both good and bad things ffs.
 
Strelok said:
If so more than half of the caf were not in their right mind back then. Check this very thread and you'd see.

Tbh I'm getting tired of some people being so biased here. We're being crap atm and ETH must take the majority of the blame, regardless of how many injuries we have or if the players downing tools or not. But why some have to keep trying to deny and downplay what he has done here last season.

The caf is always too fecking extremely biased. If he's good he must be perfect and could do nothing wrong. If he's bad he must be shite and could do nothing right or good. He's also human so obviously he will do both good and bad things ffs.
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Do we consider the job Ole had done a miracle as well? Just curious, because he had virtually the same squad + Pogba, but minus 200 million additions including Casemiro, and finished 2nd and 3rd with it, and he's not even a particularly talented manager.

It was a good season, probably slightly above expectations but not by much. Calling it a miracle is a big stretch. And there were obvious red flags last season as well, as our performances away to top 10 or embarrassing Europa League exit, or our form in the last 3 months. I had it as a decent season and was hoping we could maintain everything that was good about it but iron out the shortcomings, which I feel was everyone's expectation for this season. Instead we erased everything that was good about it and made all weaknesses worse.
 
Gupz said:
The main issue is that we were not able to sell the problem players and there was no money to just replace these players without selling first. I mean everyone agrees that players like Maguire, Lindeloff, Mctomminay, Sancho, Dalot are not good enough…,
I really expected Ten Hag to go that way, but instead he seems to be too soft and stubborn by keeping these players onboard
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He’s tried to sell Maguire, bombed Sancho, Lindelof was 3rd/4th choice. McT was kept as no money for a replacement. So I agree with his assessment of those players as not good enough and it’s the clubs (chiefly Woodwards legacy and Murtough inadequacy) failings that he remains lumbered with them.

Murtough’s job is to get the right players in, and he’s shown he’s entirely incapable. He’s the first one who needs to go.
 
Strelok said:
And anti ETH people downplaying it a lot. We should simply agree to disagree I think.
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Top 4 and winning the weakest domestic trophy in England while beating no top 4 in the run till the final isn't a miracle, for God's sake. It's the bare minimum.
 
el3mel said:
Top 4 and winning the weakest domestic trophy in England while beating no top 4 in the run till the final isn't a miracle, for God's sake. It's the bare minimum.
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I would call it a bit more than the bare minimum, the results were indeed a good season. 3rd in the league, won a little cup, that's really not bad.

But by the end of last season some weaknesses also have been very obvious, and it was clear that EtH needed to make a step forward. That's what he failed at, the ideas he had to improve performances simply backfired. And he is running out of time to fix this.
 
stefan92 said:
I would call it a bit more than the bare minimum, the results were indeed a good season. 3rd in the league, won a little cup, that's really not bad.

But by the end of last season some weaknesses also have been very obvious, and it was clear that EtH needed to make a step forward. That's what he failed at, the ideas he had to improve performances simply backfired. And he is running out of time to fix this.
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For me, based on last season and this year's signings and money spent the expectations for this season would have been:

Great season: mounting a title challenge or close (80+ points), making it out of the groups in CL and progressing past 1 knockout round
Good season: repeating a similar points tally while making top 4, making it out of the groups in CL
Decent season: similar points tally in the league while not making top 4, out of the groups in CL
Underwhelming but acceptable season: fewer points than last year by no more than 10 while not making CL, crash out in CL groups
Unacceptable season: more than 10 points worse than last season, crash out in CL groups
 
Sarni said:
Do we consider the job Ole had done a miracle as well? Just curious, because he had virtually the same squad + Pogba, but minus 200 million additions including Casemiro, and finished 2nd and 3rd with it, and he's not even a particularly talented manager.

It was a good season, probably slightly above expectations but not by much. Calling it a miracle is a big stretch. And there were obvious red flags last season as well, as our performances away to top 10 or embarrassing Europa League exit, or our form in the last 3 months. I had it as a decent season and was hoping we could maintain everything that was good about it but iron out the shortcomings, which I feel was everyone's expectation for this season. Instead we erased everything that was good about it and made all weaknesses worse.
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No none called that a miracle if my memory serves me right. But many called what ETH did here last season was miracle. And I'd agree with that considering most including me wrote off that season and expected us no be nowhere near the top 4 let alone winning anything after the utter disaster season under Ole - Rangnick.

If this season he could do only what he did in the last season then agree it's only a decent season.

And I'd disagree with the bold part. We're being utter crap atm but things will improve once we got our first choices back and the new signings adapted. Imo this is just a inevitable bumpy part on the road. For once we're heading in the right direction after all the years being so clueless. At least the progressive football we're trying to play would make us competing again if we do it right. No more dinosaur or sit deep and counter football.

Tbh I don't even mind he's sacked if we can get someone proven. That means at a top club or CL level. We hired ETH not only because what he did at Ajax but also in the CL. I don't want any more of those caretakers or some 'modern manager' who only did well at Brighton. The chance we'd hit gold with those is like winning the lotto. At least with ETH I still have some belief if we keep backing him and fix our structure things might work again.
 
christy87 said:
Or don't sack him and say hello to the championship
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Or restructure the club and leave the bloke to coach and nowt else. Unless there's a miracle worker out any new manager is doomed to fail and all. We've been in this loop for more than a decade and that will continue until a footballing structure is put into place.

Sack ETH, hire Bruce, sack Bruce, hire Ancelotti, sack Ancelotti, hire Moyes again, sack Moyes again, hire Gordon Ramsey..And on and on and on.
 
el3mel said:
Top 4 and winning the weakest domestic trophy in England while beating no top 4 in the run till the final isn't a miracle, for God's sake. It's the bare minimum.
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I had a look at your posting history and it seems you really hate ETH simply because you're a big fan of Conte and Conte didn't get the job. Don't take me wrong you're totally entitled to your opinion. However as I said I'm getting tired of biased people so let's agree to disagree then.
 
Freak said:
I’m kind of sick of sacking managers at this point. As much as I think it’s not working with ETH, I would rather just keep him just to prove a point to the players.

Players sucked - Ole sacked
Players sucked - Rangnick left
Players sucked - ETH also about to be sacked?

There’s one common denominator here but no one wants to feck them off.
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This.....tired of these players getting a pass. Surely Rashford/Bruno are being protected by the club which goes to show the rot running this shite show.
 
gaffs said:
Massive waste of money.

Antony, Mount and Casemiro are awful deals.

I would have gone for Joao Palhinha, Olise, Maddison (all Premier League Proven) and you would still have had change for a center back.

To think what we are paying Mason Mount, unwanted at Chelsea, more a week than Maddison, when Mount only had a year left on his contact, as well as £20mil more on the transfer fee. It hurts.
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Blame ETH for wanting Mount but club is at fault ffor all the overblown prices they constantly pay.
 
Spoony said:
Or restructure the club and leave the bloke to coach and nowt else. Unless there's a miracle worker out any new manager is doomed to fail and all. We've been in this loop for more than a decade and that will continue until a footballing structure is put into place.

Sack ETH, hire Bruce, sack Bruce, hire Ancelotti, sack Ancelotti, hire Moyes again, sack Moyes again, hire Gordon Ramsey..And on and on and on.
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Wish we would restructure the club right now even though it should have happened a decade ago
 
Strelok said:
I had a look at your posting history and it seems you really hate ETH simply because you're a big fan of Conte and Conte didn't get the job. Don't take me wrong you're totally entitled to your opinion. However as I said I'm getting tired of biased people so let's agree to disagree then.
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He's the worst moaner on this forum, exudes nothing but relentless negativity.
 
r0663664 said:
Would anyone pay 70M pounds for Hoijund? Answer is no. Martinez and Malaccia will likely also be lower price.
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70m is the going rate for that sort of player. Evan Ferguson could sell for 100m.

Martinez and Malacia easily worth the fees we paid relative to other signings.

Those 3 and Eriksen on a free are fine. The problems are with all the £280m worth of other signings ETH has made.
 
Spoony said:
Sack him and then what? The cycle starts again.
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Until we find a really good manager. Why persist with managers who are not good enough? It makes no sense. It was obvious that Ole was not good enough and our mistake was give him even more time. We are stuck in this loop due to us signing poor managers, not due to a lack of patience.

If we somehow can afford Palhina and Neto in January ETH might have a chance.
 
The problem right now is that the players have given up on the manager. If it were possible to fire the players, every one of them, and rebuild the squad then that would be the path forward. But of course that is not possible and the players know it. The only path forward is to fire the manager, and as far as I can recall this is the first time I've ever called for ETH to be sacked and I don't even have a good answer as to who should be brought in, Flick being the only realistic name that any poster here has suggested to my knowledge. But all this points to a larger problem within the club, which is greed. The players know they have the club by the balls and have downed tools -- is there any serious doubt about this? -- until they get a new manager they are willing to play for.

A sad state of affairs, but it is what it is. Busby would roll over in his grave but this is where we are. Even Ferguson, the great man, refuses to lift a finger in outrage over the rot that starts from the owners entirely on account on being on the payroll. Greed is what it is, mates.
 
Mailo said:
Replace the manager, and we'll be back here again in 2 years time.
Purge from the top, and clean out any cliffhangers and start again with young and hungry players with all to prove on no ballooned contracts. Then we'll reap the rewards. But this won't happen, and we'll again resort to firing the manager and be back here in 2 years time.
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Except if we do what you suggested without making any changes to the front office and recruitment structure, we'll just end up with a squad of young Eredivisie players who won't be cut out for this level and who we'll then struggle to sell.
 
Big Ben Foster said:
Except if we do what you suggested without making any changes to the front office and recruitment structure, we'll just end up with a squad of young Eredivisie players who won't be cut out for this level and who we'll then struggle to sell.
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He's seemingly not even picking out the best Eredivise (or ex ETH) players either.. we could have had Gravenbach for nearly 20m less than Mount and all evidence points to conclusion that he would have been more effective as a no.8,, for one. Gakpo isn't some world-beater but he could have signed him instead of Antony and had cover for RW and back-up CF to challenge Rashford last season and not need Weghorst, and all for 50(!) m less than Antony. That 50m could have bought us a younger 6/8, say Thuram from Nice, to play alongside Casemiro and learn from him, then start to take over this season
 
Whilst Anthony is underwhelming, and the lack of scoring over the whole front is worrying, it did appear to me as Man Utd not having any list of options when ten Hag came. The right front wing position was not working, with Sancho rarely doing any good. At least with Anthony he knew what to get, but Ten Hag doesnt do the buying, the club does. if Ajax keeps increasing their demands, Howard & co shouldv said no.

It seems a vicious circle of nothing. New manager, manager bounce. Then after a year: rut comes in, players stop working, stroll around the park. result: manager sacked. This has now happened for 6 or 7 years. Review the last matches of Moyes and see how similar the players walk around the field.

In a way rangnick was right. A huge, huge clear out is needed.

The comparisment with Newcastle is not real. Ten Hag was brought in for fast high press. Newcastle is a 4-4-2 low block team. Much more effective, but would not be accepteed if Ten Hag plays like that.

That said, for his sake, I dont think he can keep onplaying the high press high line attacks anymore. He needs a string of results. 5-3-2 pak the bus for all I care. Then wait for Rathclif and hopefully some choice, well scouted buys in january. Not Weghorsts of this world.
 
lex talionis said:
The problem right now is that the players have given up on the manager. If it were possible to fire the players, every one of them, and rebuild the squad then that would be the path forward. But of course that is not possible and the players know it. The only path forward is to fire the manager, and as far as I can recall this is the first time I've ever called for ETH to be sacked and I don't even have a good answer as to who should be brought in, Flick being the only realistic name that any poster here has suggested to my knowledge. But all this points to a larger problem within the club, which is greed. The players know they have the club by the balls and have downed tools -- is there any serious doubt about this? -- until they get a new manager they are willing to play for.

A sad state of affairs, but it is what it is. Busby would roll over in his grave but this is where we are. Even Ferguson, the great man, refuses to lift a finger in outrage over the rot that starts from the owners entirely on account on being on the payroll. Greed is what it is, mates.
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If the players have downed tools then that is on the manager as the game last night had 7 ten hag players in it. And they were still shit. This is his team now with a few left overs, if he’d built a stronger mentally team those few left over would be insignificant or have to toe the line or be dropped. I’m sick of reading we’ve seen these players down tools before under previous managers when 75% of them wasn’t even here then.

I’m gutted how this year is going but the players brought in are just not good enough or were the wrong choice. It’s been said a million times but why the feck did we buy mount when we really needed a dm. It just seems insane to me, and then who the feck decided to give him the 7 shirt, there was obviously big plans for him from the manager and it just doesn’t seem right. The team being built is second rate.
 
That basically strikes me as lose to Fulham and Copenhagen = sacked.
 
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