Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24

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JPRouve said:
I don't think anyone as suggested that they know for each and every players. And I don't think anyone should.
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I remember Liverpool fans used to argue which player was board signing and which player was Rodgers signing (unsurprisingly all failed ones are Rodgers when he was poor).

I remember Ajax fan also posted similar post few weeks ago, that xyz players are ETH signings and they are old signings, which Ajax never did before. Maybe it's a good educated guess based on profile of players Ajax signed before.
 
JPRouve said:
No. As much as you want to insist what actually happened more often than not is that ETH would change the way players play including changing their positions while also adapting tactics to the players at his disposal. You seem to think that ETH is dogmatic when he isn't.
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Actually, that was what I actually meant. Adapting or changing tactic to the players at his disposal can also means that ETH is flexible to tweak a bit here and there in his style of play.

If a player that really can't fit into the system at all I believe no manager can make it work. There is a reason why Klopp and Pep have to almost change the entire team when they joined.
 
TrustInJanuzaj said:
This is still a ridiculously negative view point. We’ve just come off our worst ever season and finished 6th while the teams above and around us are bang average outside of City and Liverpool. Basically you are saying you expect Ten Hag to have zero impact when that’s his only job. This is the same sort of moving the goalposts many of us have had to put up with with Rangnick. The squad is nowhere near as bad as made out, a decent manager which a summer window behind him, pisses top four.
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TBF our avg post Fergie finish position is 5th.

Finished outside the top 4 five times in 9 seasons.

It's possible we could get top 4, but also possible we won't.
 
JPRouve said:
We weren't in free fall, United has been very stable this season. From October to the end of the season United has been between the 4th and 8th position every weeks, 10 times 6th, 7 times 7th, 6 times 4th, 4 times 5th and 2 times 8th.
We haven't had any free fall and there is nothing suggesting that we didn't end at the position we deserved.
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Spot on!

I’m looking forward to seeing which of our existing players ETH manages to get more from, but if it’s Dalot and Pereira rather than Rashford and Shaw, lots of people on here are going to be furious.
 
Yakuza_devils said:
To me they are not world class except Ronaldo first stint with us.

Many people here wanted DDG to be replaced and Bruno to improve his passing.

Varane and Sancho are both average so far. Di Maria? Really?

World class player can perform up to a very high standard even with a shit manager.
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This is one of the biggest myths in football. It’s a team game for a reason.
 
TrustInJanuzaj said:
This is one of the biggest myths in football. It’s a team game for a reason.
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Exactly. People seem to completely ignore what happened to an all conquering Real Madrid when they only had good managers like Benitez or Lopetegui.
 
JPRouve said:
We weren't in free fall, United has been very stable this season. From October to the end of the season United has been between the 4th and 8th position every weeks, 10 times 6th, 7 times 7th, 6 times 4th, 4 times 5th and 2 times 8th.
We haven't had any free fall and there is nothing suggesting that we didn't end at the position we deserved.
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We were shocking last season. We went through two managers who both underperformed. All our players had a crisis of confidence and we’re visibly playing worse than their top level. If you think that is the limit of these players then we are miles off in our estimations. We comfortably finished 3rd and 2nd the years prior without ever really looking great but at least better than last season. I honestly don’t see how you can expect the same position in the table with a new manager and a massive summer budget. You’re basically saying you don’t think ETH is capable of getting us playing us better than this past season and that’s an incredibly low bar.
 
JPRouve said:
Exactly. People seem to completely ignore what happened to an all conquering Real Madrid when they only had good managers like Benitez or Lopetegui.
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Yep there’s been too many examples to count of good players underperforming only for the right manager to come into play.
 
roonster09 said:
How do you guys know which player is ETH signing and which player is Overmars/club signing?

Usually there will always be an argument around this, club signing vs manager signing.
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As mentioned here, some of those players were former Ten Hag players that really didn't fit into the Ajax philosophy and mostly the really reliable journalists who mentioned that Ten Hag wanted those players.
Also you can really spot the Overmars signings because they all fit into a similar profile, even before Ten Hag was there.

roonster09 said:
I remember Liverpool fans used to argue which player was board signing and which player was Rodgers signing (unsurprisingly all failed ones are Rodgers when he was poor).

I remember Ajax fan also posted similar post few weeks ago, that xyz players are ETH signings and they are old signings, which Ajax never did before. Maybe it's a good educated guess based on profile of players Ajax signed before.
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Exactly!
 
TrustInJanuzaj said:
This is one of the biggest myths in football. It’s a team game for a reason.
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It is a team game, but United have failed to build a balanced team since SAF.

Also Chelsea won the Champions League with the chap who looked like a Hallowe’en pumpkin. And nearly won it with Avram Grant.
 
TrustInJanuzaj said:
We were shocking last season. We went through two managers who both underperformed. All our players had a crisis of confidence and we’re visibly playing worse than their top level. If you think that is the limit of these players then we are miles off in our estimations. We comfortably finished 3rd and 2nd the years prior without ever really looking great but at least better than last season. I honestly don’t see how you can expect the same position in the table with a new manager and a massive summer budget. You’re basically saying you don’t think ETH is capable of getting us playing us better than this past season and that’s an incredibly low bar.
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I literally told you the opposite, I told you that we finished where we deserved and had no free fall because that's an irrefutable fact. I'm also telling you that a decent coach wouldn't see us finish easily in the top 4, though a very good manager that has a crucial impact could.
 
Keefy18 said:
TBF our avg post Fergie finish position is 5th.

Finished outside the top 4 five times in 9 seasons.

It's possible we could get top 4, but also possible we won't.
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And in the vast majority of those seasons we have had a shocker and sacked the manager. If we I do you expect ETH is the real deal then he will get top 4 or at least get very close. If he’s not up to it then he will falter and be unable to improve us from the shambles we have become this season. Managers have to earn that confidence through meeting minimum expectations. At a minimum we should be better than Arsenal, Spurs and West Ham next season who all have comsosderably weaker squads and less transfer money this summer. A real world class manager worth his salt would be looking at Chelsea as well for what they are.
 
TrustInJanuzaj said:
And in the vast majority of those seasons we have had a shocker and sacked the manager. If we I do you expect ETH is the real deal then he will get top 4 or at least get very close. If he’s not up to it then he will falter and be unable to improve us from the shambles we have become this season. Managers have to earn that confidence through meeting minimum expectations. At a minimum we should be better than Arsenal, Spurs and West Ham next season who all have comsosderably weaker squads and less transfer money this summer. A real world class manager worth his salt would be looking at Chelsea as well for what they are.
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Like I say it could honestly go any which way.

I've zero expectations at this point, I'll just watch and hope for the best for him and the club.

Could literally be anything from a relegation battle to top 4 comfortably.
 
Revaulx said:
It is a team game, but United have failed to build a balanced team since SAF.

Also Chelsea won the Champions League with the chap who looked like a Hallowe’en pumpkin. And nearly won it with Avram Grant.
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Yeh we’ve failed to build a team due to the failings of our hierarchy and managers in combination. However, just because we’ve failed to do it doesn’t mean we should just abandon trying to as that’s the end goal of being a decent team. Many of our individuals have shown much higher levels either for Utd or elsewhere and we should be elevating players not making them regress. Frankly that’s not in the players when it’s happening to every single one of them.
 
Keefy18 said:
Like I say it could honestly go any which way.

I've zero expectations at this point, I'll just watch and hope for the best for him and the club.

Could literally be anything from a relegation battle to top 4 comfortably.
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Yeh sounds like you’ve checked out mentally which to be honest is reflective of me this last third of the season and I honestly don’t blame you. I am however optimistic that ETH will lift is out this shambles provided he can sign the right players this summer.
 
Amsterdam90s said:
Ajax fan here, new to the forum. I'm very interested to see how ten Hag will do it at Manchester United. If you look at his 2018/19 team and how he made that work, i think you can see his plans at United. If you manage to get Frenky de Jong and a passing defender i think you have the base of the team ready. Bruno is a much better version of Schone if you play him next to Frenky and they can both send van de Beek on his way. If he plays Bruno on 10 then maybe you need a new midfielder. Personally i think Ten Hag was never a fan of vd Beek. He actually benched him for a while at Ajax but i think he was told to play him so Ajax could make some good money on him.

If Man United manages to get Eriksen, Frenky de Jong and a passing defender and then built on that i think its the way to go. Personally im a huge fan of Timber and Martinez but i think they are too small for the Premier League plus it will be risky for then Hag to buy so many Ajax players.

If Manchester United manages to sell some players for decent money then there are more options ofcourse but as i understood it the above players are realistic and something to build on the next years.
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Welcome!

Glad we have another Dutch Ajax on the caf!

interesting what you said about Donny, personally I think he will be playing a lot this season to help the team play a certain style which we at United are not very common with.
 
TrustInJanuzaj said:
Yeh sounds like you’ve checked out mentally which to be honest is reflective of me this last third of the season and I honestly don’t blame you. I am however optimistic that ETH will lift is out this shambles provided he can sign the right players this summer.
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Oh well n truly checked out! :)

I mean after the shambles so far of the Post Fergie era I can't blame anyone who has.

I've told myself if I've no expectations and its good (fighting for top 4 and pushing on in a cup or two) I'll take that and be very happy... if its more of the same then I will be gutted but not surprised either... trying to set it up for an old win win type scenario :lol:
 
Teja said:
Good episode I found floating about on Twitter.



Summary
  • Go Ahead Eagles:
    • Suriname is a former dutch colony, GAE had a lot of Surinamese players and ETH connected well with all different ethnicities. Sometimes pats, sometimes approached hard, no one was mad for not being played etc.
    • Tells the truth in a way that doesn't piss people off.
    • If he has something to say, has images, videos etc.
    • Players saw football in a different way.
    • Player asked ETH for training off (not super important session player thought - training session after match). ETH didn't agree. ETH is not about training to train - there's always a goal behind each session.
    • Won playoffs with GAE - brought them back for the first time in 17 years.
  • Bayern
    • Tobias Schweinsteiger: Older brother of Bastian - in the last two years of his football. First coach where he felt every training session, every warmup / ronda made sense. Side, player improved a lot. First time he believed players could be improved.
    • He improved positioning game, pressing game. Understood why he needed to be in a certain space. The game was in a certain situation and he knew by being in a certain position he'd create another scenario.
    • Detail on passing drills: Playing from A->B->C. Coached every detail, every pass, every bounce, every touch. Wasn't used to that. He wanted players to be perfect in the passing drill.
    • No bouncing balls! If the ball bounced, it was a bad pass. Good pass => better chance to score.
    • Won the regional championship with U23s
    • Dynamic with Guardiola
      • ETH liked the style Cruyff played. Good connection with Pep and talked to him a bit. Took some drills from Pep's training and implemented it in the U-23 side.
      • First team trained at an extremely high level pass -> first touch -> pass -> first touch extremely quickly. Ten Hag was impressed so he pushed the U23s towards that as well.
      • Sometimes it's good for a coach to see as well: you might think your team's performance in a drill is good but one of the best teams in the world running the drill at a much higher level sets the benchmark.
  • FC Utrecht
    • Explained players who are not in starting XI why their role is important in a certain game and kept them ready all the time.
    • Gets to know people and communicates well, keeps people on their tip toes and makes sure they're ready.
    • Normally starters get a lot more attention than the subs. He made sure guys that are not starting, when you get in, this is what's expected from you.
    • Invested the same amount of time he put in to the starters as the non starters.
    • Starters vs Non Starters, took some non starters put them in the starters team etc.
    • Boymans: Handled every player well. Ten Hag knew Boymans was smoking cigarettes and knew how to approach the player etc. Every player had their own approach.
  • Ajax
    • Not a lot on this.
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This post isn't getting enough love.

Thanks for posting this
 
TrustInJanuzaj said:
Yeh we’ve failed to build a team due to the failings of our hierarchy and managers in combination. However, just because we’ve failed to do it doesn’t mean we should just abandon trying to as that’s the end goal of being a decent team. Many of our individuals have shown much higher levels either for Utd or elsewhere and we should be elevating players not making them regress. Frankly that’s not in the players when it’s happening to every single one of them.
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Well I hope you’re right.

I just feel that United in the Woodward era has developed a culture of laziness and entitlement in the players which it’s going to be hard to shift. Particularly with those who have been around for a while.
 
Yakuza_devils said:
This really worries me. We have promised ETH to give him control over player recruitment before he signed for us. Praying hard now.
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He doesn't have full control over player recruitment. That's exactly what the whole football structure under Murtough is designed not to do. Ten Hag obviously will indicate his needs, will be part of the conversation, and I think it's been said that he has a veto (no players he really doesn't want). But he won't run the recruitment side, that's not his job.

Edit: I know this sort of thing (demanding full control) was reported before he signed his contract, but I'm really sure it's been debunked since, I think also by Ten Hag himself. (That he wanted that veto and that's all.)
 
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No bouncing balls! If the ball bounced, it was a bad pass.

Music to my ears. Our players are experts at making things difficult for each other with shite and unnecessary bouncy passes.
 
Cheimoon said:
He doesn't have full control over player recruitment. That's exactly what the whole football structure under Murtough is designed not to do. Ten Hag obviously will indicate his needs, will be part of the conversation, and I think it's been said that he has a veto (no players he really doesn't want). But he won't run the recruitment side, that's not his job.
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This is the way
 
HookedOnAPhelan said:
No bouncing balls! If the ball bounced, it was a bad pass.

Music to my ears. Our players are experts at making things difficult for each other with shite and unnecessary bouncy passes.
Click to expand...

They're so bad at. Even the ones that roll up their teammate's leg when they try to control it. They're professional footballers FFS.
 
Teja said:
Good episode I found floating about on Twitter.



Summary
  • Go Ahead Eagles:
    • Suriname is a former dutch colony, GAE had a lot of Surinamese players and ETH connected well with all different ethnicities. Sometimes pats, sometimes approached hard, no one was mad for not being played etc.
    • Tells the truth in a way that doesn't piss people off.
    • If he has something to say, has images, videos etc.
    • Players saw football in a different way.
    • Player asked ETH for training off (not super important session player thought - training session after match). ETH didn't agree. ETH is not about training to train - there's always a goal behind each session.
    • Won playoffs with GAE - brought them back for the first time in 17 years.
  • Bayern
    • Tobias Schweinsteiger: Older brother of Bastian - in the last two years of his football. First coach where he felt every training session, every warmup / ronda made sense. Side, player improved a lot. First time he believed players could be improved.
    • He improved positioning game, pressing game. Understood why he needed to be in a certain space. The game was in a certain situation and he knew by being in a certain position he'd create another scenario.
    • Detail on passing drills: Playing from A->B->C. Coached every detail, every pass, every bounce, every touch. Wasn't used to that. He wanted players to be perfect in the passing drill.
    • No bouncing balls! If the ball bounced, it was a bad pass. Good pass => better chance to score.
    • Won the regional championship with U23s
    • Dynamic with Guardiola
      • ETH liked the style Cruyff played. Good connection with Pep and talked to him a bit. Took some drills from Pep's training and implemented it in the U-23 side.
      • First team trained at an extremely high level pass -> first touch -> pass -> first touch extremely quickly. Ten Hag was impressed so he pushed the U23s towards that as well.
      • Sometimes it's good for a coach to see as well: you might think your team's performance in a drill is good but one of the best teams in the world running the drill at a much higher level sets the benchmark.
  • FC Utrecht
    • Explained players who are not in starting XI why their role is important in a certain game and kept them ready all the time.
    • Gets to know people and communicates well, keeps people on their tip toes and makes sure they're ready.
    • Normally starters get a lot more attention than the subs. He made sure guys that are not starting, when you get in, this is what's expected from you.
    • Invested the same amount of time he put in to the starters as the non starters.
    • Starters vs Non Starters, took some non starters put them in the starters team etc.
    • Boymans: Handled every player well. Ten Hag knew Boymans was smoking cigarettes and knew how to approach the player etc. Every player had their own approach.
  • Ajax
    • Not a lot on this.
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Great post. Thank you.

Interesting his approach with players who are not playing and making sure they know their importance. SAF type trait.
 
Yakuza_devils said:
This really worries me. We have promised ETH to give him control over player recruitment before he signed for us. Praying hard now.

BTW, how to differentiate which is ETH or Overmars signing?
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Cheimoon said:
He doesn't have full control over player recruitment. That's exactly what the whole football structure under Murtough is designed not to do. Ten Hag obviously will indicate his needs, will be part of the conversation, and I think it's been said that he has a veto (no players he really doesn't want). But he won't run the recruitment side, that's not his job.
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It's funny because the CAF cried out for a DOF for years.

We get one.

Now there's lots of these types of posts where posters want to the manager to have full control over recruitment.

Which just goes to show no-one really understands what a DOF actually does.
 
ETH will has big influence/control over player recruitment. This is so important to him that he seek for assurance before he committed to us. Otherwise, he would not has joined us.

With this kind of demand, I really believe that he also worked under the same condition in Ajax working closely with Overmars.

Now, as per some Ajax fans, if all his signings were bad and Overmars signings were good in Ajax, then we are truly fecked.
 
I think many fans here have gotten serious ptsd. It’s not their fault, not even a bit.
But, I have to say many have underestimated our upcoming youth pipeline. They will have impact starting from this new season.
 
Yakuza_devils said:
ETH will has big influence/control over player recruitment. This is so important to him that he seek for assurance before he committed to us. Otherwise, he would not has joined us.

With this kind of demand, I really believe that he also worked under the same condition in Ajax working closely with Overmars.

Now, as per some Ajax fans, if all his signings were bad and Overmars signings were good in Ajax, then we are truly fecked.
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So what do you mean exactly by 'big influence/control' and what is your claim based on?
 
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