Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24

[Mickeza]

I just don’t understand how we complain the lack of a striker is why we don’t score goals - and then West Ham put 6 past Chelsea & Brighton with Antonio up front

Antonio would have started the last 3 games for us if they were here. So would Welbeck, Ferguson and Pedro.

 

[crossy1686]

Shouldn't be blamed for losing two goals early on, but also shouldn't be praised for the comeback. Rashford and Bruno coming back to their best positions and playing key role in the win is food for though.

In isolation, you can find yourself 2 goals down like we did today and it's down to mistakes or world class goals, it happens. If you take a step back though and look at the bigger picture, we still seem under prepared, and if it wasn't for Forest getting 2 early goals to wake them up that game could have been another shite performance from start to end. Hopefully this is the turning point we need to get our shit together. The manager is complaining that the players aren't following instructions, that has to end today. Maybe playing them in their best positions means they follow instructions better? Who knows, but we'll find out soon enough.

Good win, concerning start and finishing.

 

[CG1010]

It's not about 90 of dominance, it's about not completely falling apart for large parts of the match. Last season we'd only turn up for 45 minutes for most games

But we didn't completely fall apart for much of today's game. We were attacked by them after 3-2 but never really threatened. We can be a lot more smarter about it but I have very different viewing of the match than you.

 

[CG1010]

In isolation, you can find yourself 2 goals down like we did today and it's down to mistakes or world class goals, it happens. If you take a step back though and look at the bigger picture, we still seem under prepared, and if it wasn't for Forest getting 2 early goals to wake them up that game could have been another shite performance from start to end. Hopefully this is the turning point we need to get our shit together. The manager is complaining that the players aren't following instructions, that has to end today. Maybe playing them in their best positions means they follow instructions better? Who knows, but we'll find out soon enough.

Good win, concerning start and finishing.

We really should start every home game 1 goal down. The players are much more focussed and aggressive based on what we have seen last season as well. This is a mentality issue which the manager needs to find a solution for.

 

[mikeyt]

I just don’t understand how we complain the lack of a striker is why we don’t score goals - and then West Ham put 6 past Chelsea & Brighton with Antonio up front

Because it's an easy excuse. We've spent £65million or so on a striker and if he doesn't bag goals it will be because he's young and inexperienced blah blah. Our build up is slow, predictable and tedious. Our ball retention and ability to move the ball quickly in the final 3rd is woeful. Add to that we have literally no movement in the box and it's pretty obvious why we don't score goals. I have a feeling Arsenal will give us a right a hiding next week.

 

[Dominos]

Nobody can defend the performances against Wolves or Spurs. But today was very good, and very dominant. We could have scored more and their 2 goals came early on. It was thrilling dominant and enjoyable to watch for United fans. Happy to take it.

The fact their goals came early is irrelevant, we defended poorly, it's the same result as if they score in the 30th and 60th minute vs 2nd and 4th minute. They had other dangerous attacks, and we couldn't hold onto the ball against 10 men and had to hang on to a 1 goal lead. And we have to take into account we're talking about 2 relegation candidates in Wolves and Forest.

 

[CG1010]

The fact their goals came early is irrelevant, we defended poorly, it's the same result as if they score in the 30th and 60th minute vs 2nd and 4th minute. They had other dangerous attacks, and we couldn't hold onto the ball against 10 men and had to hang on to a 1 goal lead. And we have to take into account we're talking about 2 relegation candidates in Wolves and Forest.

We did defend poorly but afterwards were completely dominant. That's the point. We had 67% possession, 18 shots on goal, 9 on target, 11 corners plus so much action around their box.

We could have been more stable on the ball after 3-2 but they didn't create much, and after Mctominay came on, we handled their long balls pretty decently. In fact if rashford was in form we could have got a couple more also.

We aren't fully firing right now but I saw it as an enjoyable performance overall.

 

[mu4c_20le]

I just don’t understand how we complain the lack of a striker is why we don’t score goals - and then West Ham put 6 past Chelsea & Brighton with Antonio up front

I jokingly called Antony the Brazilian Bowen last season but the truth is the latter is a much more proven PL goalscorer. Faster on the break too.

 

[glasgow 21]

You seriously think that barely edging out this FOREST side, letting them dominate with 10 men (after we scored the winner) is the best he can do with this team? If so then we are in deep duuduu. Its no where near good enough. Standards man.

You obviously don't get the route 1 approach after we scored the winner. I can definitely get United to play like if you want, boot the ball into 18 yard and the big guy knocks it on, I'm your man where do i sign.
Forest dominated nothing other than we are not clicking yet. Run off and get on the Moyes back wagon.

 

[el3mel]

The win is papering over cracks pretty much, winning against mid or lower table team after going 2-0 down and having to rely on a red card and pen to win is pretty much papering over cracks.

However the win was enjoyable and I like comeback wins euphoria. I will take the 3 points. We are still awful but at least happy and peaceful few days are coming now.

 

[Adnan]

Good post as always Adnan. Don’t know if I’d agree with Mount being all that physical though. A stamina machine and workhorse for sure but still a bit lightweight and goes missing easily. Anyway I’d love to know the reasoning behind Rashford being the last line of defence. Seems like an oversight. Back in the day common sense dictated your fullbacks were the ones left back. Sometimes the old ways work best.

There’s plenty of concerns about this team but at least we got the points today.

Mount is someone who has the ability to be very good out of possession. And you've described his off the ball qualities quite well, which will help the press and counter press once we develop further when it comes to controlling the defensive and offensive transitions.

Forest scored their first goal after conceding a corner to us. And we had a lot of players forward for the corner and they unfortunately capitalised on the counter. But that situation should never have been allowed to develop if Rashford had looked to contain the situation rather than attempt to win the ball proactively against a physically superior player. If Rashford had just gone goal side, that attack would've fizzled out imo. So we ended up making it difficult for ourselves when really we should be talking about a comfortable victory. And in the game today where defending from the front has become more pronounced with the aim of creative numerical superiorities and overloading the opponent's defensive third, the fullbacks are either high out wide or high up the pitch occupying a central midfield berth.

There's still work to be done and new players will have to be bought. But as things stand, I'm waiting to see how Hojlund, Mainoo and Mount get on once they return from injury. I think there's potential once they all return.

We could also really do with signing a first phase midfielder. But that will depend on the Glazers and I'm not expecting us to challenge the wealth funds at Man City or Chelsea under the current owners.

 

[Adnan]

Great post. I think your points here are a big reason for EtH sticking with Wan-Bissaka at RB. He's an absolute beast physically and I wouldn't be surprised if he's gotten a lot of 1 on 1 coaching to improve his technical abilities and movement. He's looking more and more comfortable on the ball.

You're spot on.

I was one of the biggest critics of AWB but completely agree about AWB being a big plus against the opponent's transition. He's absolutely superb in defending transitions and we need that right now.

 

[ClassAct147]

He cannot say a certain players or players were rubbish in public. He would have a mutiny on his hands.

Maybe, but it's difficult to back him when some players clearly are not up to it yet he tells us how great they were in post match interviews etc. Makes me wonder if he's watching the same game as us.

 

[Sylar]

I know a lot of people are talking about Eth having spent 300m but at least 120m were not playing today.
One of the players he wanted for cm in mainoo got injured pre season.
And another midfielder he apparently wants can't be bought yet until we sell.

I don't know what's happening with onana because it seems like we (or himself but less likely) are making him lose some of his top attributes in terms of helping out our defence.

I'd like to see united under him and a few games when we have a striker, a settled defence and our midfield options fit and available.

Right now it seems like we're still relying on Bruno and rashford

 

[NLunited]

Today we saw better performances from Rashford and Antony: they were quicker and more direct. That’s what we need against teams that dig in: creativity, energy and quickness that defenders can’t deal with.

Martial offered nothing, we need Højlund asap.

 

[baskinginthesun]

The win is papering over cracks pretty much, winning against mid or lower table team after going 2-0 down and having to rely on a red card and pen to win is pretty much papering over cracks.

However the win was enjoyable and I like comeback wins euphoria. I will take the 3 points. We are still awful but at least happy and peaceful few days are coming now.

The penalty and red card was a nice sequence of events but, we were pushing for a 3rd and we would've scored, even without the penalty.

Winning while playing awful is never a bad thing. I guess we'll see how we fare against Arsenal and hopefully ETH is figuring out how to right the mistakes.

 

[Strelok]

What's his football though? Does anyone know? And I'm pretty sure Casemiro, Bruno, Rashford etc don't play his kind of football but they're all regular starters.

Tbh imo his football is simply too complicated for common folks like us to completely understand. But @OrcaFat has said something pretty spotted on about his football here I think:

If we keep playing like we did last year we will achieve a similar result to last year.

In any case, the system we are trying to play is not a six and two tens it is much more complicated than that. All the players have rules to follow depending on what’s happening in the game (I think they call it phases of play).

If the players do what they are supposed to, we combat overloads from the opponent and create overloads for ourselves, especially in trying to win the ball back high up the pitch. We need two advanced midfielders to create numerical advantages in the opponent half otherwise they will play through us more easily and spend more time in our half.

However, if the players don’t follow their own rules, we get problems. The void in CM is supposed to be filled by fullbacks tucking in and CBs stepping out. The wingers have to chase back and cover the flanks. The players have to be fit but also they have to be very well drilled in reading the game and doing what they should be doing (which changes all the time depending on what’s going on).

Not all players will be able to learn it fast but when the whole team is working like a well-oiled machine, it makes fuller use of the total resources on the pitch. Players are doing more for the team because they have more complex roles which, in turn, reduces positional redundancy; it’s like playing with an extra player.

When it’s not being done properly it looks terrible but we have to give it time.

Imo our play has been improving after each game along with our physical conditions. What a shame Shaw, Mount and Hojlund won't be available for a while. But it might take time for Mount and Hojlund to learn and do what ETH wants. Patience is the key here. In fact imo we don't have a new system. We simply replace Eriksen with Mount, DDG with Onana and our non existing #9 with Hojlund. So things gonna eventually get better than last season I think.

 

[RedOrange]

I just don’t understand how we complain the lack of a striker is why we don’t score goals - and then West Ham put 6 past Chelsea & Brighton with Antonio up front

Anyone who's been paying attention over the last 12 months has noticed that a striker who is quick enough, willing to make proper runs into the box and challenge for the ball physically will score goals for us. The opportunities are there for the right player who is willing to put the work in. Rashford isn't strong enough to compete with centre backs, Martial isn't quick enough to beat anyone to the ball, and neither of them consistently make the runs anyways. That's why everyone wanted a striker this summer. We don't even need a world class striker to make it work, just someone with the right physical attributes who will make. the. run.

 

[RedOrange]

Winning while playing awful is never a bad thing. I guess we'll see how we fare against Arsenal and hopefully ETH is figuring out how to right the mistakes.

It was 2 lazy mistakes in the first 4 minutes that led directly to goals, and the final 10-15 minutes when the players reverted to past form and sat back on their heels because they got nervy. Otherwise the team completely dominated the match, and looked very likely to score. Anyone who wasn't reading and participating in the relentless doomsaying in the matchday thread would tell you the same.

 

[mav_9me]

OK, £420m or whatever, it will get to £500m soon enough.

A lot of money on players who mostly won’t be here when we hire a new manager.

Antony is just criminal. The fact that he worked with him before and not only deemed him good enough for us but also worth north of £80m is absurd.

We have to disagree on mostly players who won't be here. I have no issues with Onana, Martinez, Casemior, Eriksen and Malacia (cheap backup)

Definitely agree on Antony.

Mount (doesn't look good) and Hojlund, jury is obviously out.

 

[RedOrange]

Things he looks like he has no clue how to fix:
2. In game mentality issues and game management.

Bit of a weird thing to say after the team came back from being down 2-0 two win 3-2. The two players who were most directly to blame for the goals both played very well afterwards as well.

 

[crossy1686]

Bit of a weird thing to say after the team came back from being down 2-0 two win 3-2. The two players who were most directly to blame for the goals both played very well afterwards as well.

That's only our second time under him, compared to Ole for example who had 19 comebacks. It's an issue, and he needs to address our lack of fightback in games, especially away from home.

 

[baskinginthesun]

It was 2 lazy mistakes in the first 4 minutes that led directly to goals, and the final 10-15 minutes when the players reverted to past form and sat back on their heels because they got nervy. Otherwise the team completely dominated the match, and looked very likely to score. Anyone who wasn't reading and participating in the relentless doomsaying in the matchday thread would tell you the same.

I was emphasizing a point to another poster. I thought today's game was pure dominance.

 

[Eddy_JukeZ]

Awful start, but good way to regain and dominate the game.

I don't understand how we capitulated the last 10 minutes though and just invited pressure on ourselves. We had an extra man. Keep the ball. Make them chase instead of turning it into an end-to-end game.

I think we'll be better 1-2 months down the line with our first XI all healthy.

 

[Kung Fu Cantona7]

Anyone who's been paying attention over the last 12 months has noticed that a striker who is quick enough, willing to make proper runs into the box and challenge for the ball physically will score goals for us. The opportunities are there for the right player who is willing to put the work in. Rashford isn't strong enough to compete with centre backs, Martial isn't quick enough to beat anyone to the ball, and neither of them consistently make the runs anyways. That's why everyone wanted a striker this summer. We don't even need a world class striker to make it work, just someone with the right physical attributes who will make. the. run.

Lukaku might be available!

 

[Toddler]

You obviously don't get the route 1 approach after we scored the winner. I can definitely get United to play like if you want, boot the ball into 18 yard and the big guy knocks it on, I'm your man where do i sign.
Forest dominated nothing other than we are not clicking yet. Run off and get on the Moyes back wagon.

Why would i ran off to moyes wagon? Sorry did not really understand your answer anyway.

 

[Toddler]

Awful start, but good way to regain and dominate the game.

I don't understand how we capitulated the last 10 minutes though and just invited pressure on ourselves. We had an extra man. Keep the ball. Make them chase instead of turning it into an end-to-end game.

I think we'll be better 1-2 months down the line with our first XI all healthy.

Yeah after the winner we decided not to play football for some reason. Shoud not happen against 10 men Forest.

 

[Tom Van Persie]

The win is papering over cracks pretty much, winning against mid or lower table team after going 2-0 down and having to rely on a red card and pen to win is pretty much papering over cracks.

However the win was enjoyable and I like comeback wins euphoria. I will take the 3 points. We are still awful but at least happy and peaceful few days are coming now.

The red card and pen came about because we were dominant.

 

[Eddy_JukeZ]

The red card and pen came about because we were dominant.

It's actually ridiculous seeing some of the comments in here.

People have lost the ability to be level-headed.

I saw someone say we wouldn't have won the game without the red card. Bruno might have scored were it not for the red card. Hilarious stuff on here.

 

[r0663664]

Anyone who's been paying attention over the last 12 months has noticed that a striker who is quick enough, willing to make proper runs into the box and challenge for the ball physically will score goals for us. The opportunities are there for the right player who is willing to put the work in. Rashford isn't strong enough to compete with centre backs, Martial isn't quick enough to beat anyone to the ball, and neither of them consistently make the runs anyways. That's why everyone wanted a striker this summer. We don't even need a world class striker to make it work, just someone with the right physical attributes who will make. the. run.

U sure? Who going to pass it? I have seen players running but nobody can spot the run. Martinez is suppose to be good with the ball yet I see him making simple pass straight and left.

 

[Loon]

I wonder how this game would have gone had it been away?

 

[Andersonson]

Doesnt look good for him. Spent a shit ton and we still look like a team relying on luck. He needs a good spell to quickly or he will be gone by February

 

[Tyrion]

Doesnt look good for him. Spent a shit ton and we still look like a team relying on luck. He needs a good spell to quickly or he will be gone by February

Doubt it. It's amazing how quickly some of our fans turn to this. We are 2 wins from 3 btw.

 

[Tyrion]

Maybe, but it's difficult to back him when some players clearly are not up to it yet he tells us how great they were in post match interviews etc. Makes me wonder if he's watching the same game as us.

What do you expect him to say? He's trying to build their confidence. Can you think of any top manager who comes out and says "Well tbh new Geoff, the players were sh!te"? Whenever City drops points, Pep calls it their best performance of the season.

It was 2 lazy mistakes in the first 4 minutes that led directly to goals, and the final 10-15 minutes when the players reverted to past form and sat back on their heels because they got nervy. Otherwise the team completely dominated the match, and looked very likely to score. Anyone who wasn't reading and participating in the relentless doomsaying in the matchday thread would tell you the same.

I avoid the match day threads here. I'd imagine the collective meltdown would have put AFTV to shame.

That's only our second time under him, compared to Ole for example who had 19 comebacks. It's an issue, and he needs to address our lack of fightback in games, especially away from home.

Fair but I'd say the difference is because of how bad we were under OGS for good stretches.

It's actually ridiculous seeing some of the comments in here.

People have lost the ability to be level-headed.

I saw someone say we wouldn't have won the game without the red card. Bruno might have scored were it not for the red card. Hilarious stuff on here.

There's definitely some posters who completely overreact to bad performances (not even bad results) and start moaning on here. I wish they would start their own thread to freak out. Like the "Is the United forum safe to go into?" thread but in reverse.

 

[Reij]

At least he is the first who is trying to establish a system at UTD, many years after Van Gaal tried and failed.

Would give him another season if this one fails.

Last decade has shown that without establishing a long-term footballing system it's impossible to accomplish much.

 

[Strelok]

At least he is the first who is trying to establish a system at UTD, many years after Van Gaal tried and failed.

Would give him another season if this one fails.

Last decade has shown that without establishing a long-term footballing system it's impossible to accomplish much.

Totally agree.

If we have learn anything from the past 10 years we should pick an approach, sign players and coaches based on that approach so we won't have to sell our entire squad and buy a whole new one when we change manager. Even if things go tits up and we have to replace ETH we must find someone with a similar type of football.

 

[FlapR]

Getting rid of ETH won't solve anything. Stick with the guy, give it time, and things will work out.

 

[tenhagsimp]

Antonio hasn't been a winger for a few seasons now, but I get your point. It's really down to coaching.

Moyes in time ? Nah seriously our defence looks like saloon door under ETH which is worrying as feck. Cannot count how many times opposition players just take the ball and dribble through the middle while our player do their best traffic cone impression.

 

[shabadu84]

The red card and pen came about because we were dominant.

Yeah there was no luck about either. We got those because we pushed the issue after our 2nd and they struggled to keep their heads. That's a good thing from us.

Of course we never should have been fighting back like that to begin with. But showing resolve to stick to the plan and execute the comeback is a positive.

 

[mav_9me]

Fair enough man - dominating the game is a bit much but they did have a lot of control and had a chance or two. Should not happen at home. Nevertheless we have not been anywhere near good enough even by the low stardards that we seem to rocking here these days.

You are not wrong. They did too much for my liking even though it was our home and they were a man down. That's not good enough. But imo that happened because the players were panicking a bit, comes from drop in confidence after the start of the season so far I feel.

I hope this match turns out to be a bit of a boost seeing in general how we created quite a bit against a set defence, parking the bus.