Why don't we buy Sissoko off them while we're at it then?
Funniest thing is that Dier isn't even homegrown so he wouldn't help the quota.
Eric Dier | Poch: “He is an important player for us and the idea is not to sell him."
- Thread starter davidmichael
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Why don't we buy Sissoko off them while we're at it then?
Funniest thing is that Dier isn't even homegrown so he wouldn't help the quota.
Jesus. There's not a single player in the Spurs first 11 that isn't good enough for United and that includes Eric Dier. Lloris would obviously not be an upgrade on De Gea but that's different than Lloris not being good enough for United. It's all relative. You currently don't have a better DM than Eric Dier point. blank. period so how would he not be an upgrade on what you currently have? Does it all make sense now? Or do you want to continue to hurl insults because you're mad that I have a different opinion from you? There is very little between Carrick and Dier's passing accuracy. You're being downright silly by suggesting Dier would struggle to make your squad. Come on.
We have been much better than United this season. We score more goals. We concede less goals. We are second. Top of the form table. We put 4 past West Brom. You had 3 shots on target. 0 goals.
For a team with so many future balon d'or winners, you haven't looked better than us at all in the league this season.
This thread is getting feisty 
Anyway, I kinda agree with both sides here. Firstly I think United could have a use for Dier, Carrick, despite his obvious strengths is not the same player he was, and Fellaini is a number 10 for me (that's where he played his best football for Everton). There's no reliable holding midfielder since I see both Hererra and Pogba more as runners. Having said that, of course Dier isn't solely responsible for our good defense, and I don't think he would arrive as a saviour. I also think there are many players out there who is just as good as Dier, and that with United's financial muscle and pulling power can spend their money better elsewhere.
Anyway, I kinda agree with both sides here. Firstly I think United could have a use for Dier, Carrick, despite his obvious strengths is not the same player he was, and Fellaini is a number 10 for me (that's where he played his best football for Everton). There's no reliable holding midfielder since I see both Hererra and Pogba more as runners. Having said that, of course Dier isn't solely responsible for our good defense, and I don't think he would arrive as a saviour. I also think there are many players out there who is just as good as Dier, and that with United's financial muscle and pulling power can spend their money better elsewhere.
What you're struggling with here is that reductive comparisons are the last vestige of an internet bore.
The notion that abstract facts lay waste to discussion about players' merits is absurd. Throwing a few numbers up isn't in and of itself the end of all debate. Can you imagine a scouting report about a player involving five or six stats? It's a laughable way to view football.
Those numbers add littte or no context; they don't discuss the respective teams, their approaches, the specific roles players fulfill, the attitude and resilience in tough moments, performance in big games, the work rate in training. No, they're arbitrary and ultimately crushingly glib.
To give an example, Gueye for Everton is at the top of loads of stat tables. But stick him in a big away match against a top 6 side and he's not anywhere near as effective or influential. Yes, he's had a good season with the stats to prove it but it tells half the story.
Jesus. There's not a single player in the Spurs first 11 that isn't good enough for United and that includes Eric Dier. Lloris would obviously not be an upgrade on De Gea but that's different than Lloris not being good enough for United. It's all relative. You currently don't have a better DM than Eric Dier point. blank. period so how would he not be an upgrade on what you currently have? Does it all make sense now? Or do you want to continue to hurl insults because you're mad that I have a different opinion from you? There is very little between Carrick and Dier's passing accuracy. You're being downright silly by suggesting Dier would struggle to make your squad. Come on.
We have been much better than United this season. We score more goals. We concede less goals. We are second. Top of the form table. We put 4 past West Brom. You had 3 shots on target. 0 goals.
For a team with so many future balon d'or winners, you haven't looked better than us at all in the league this season.
I'm not mad at all, it's just you who's spewing utter bullshit post by post, failing to understand very basic concepts connected with football such as being good enough or not. Just because you've written 'point. blank' it really doesn't mean that you're right, it just means that you're unable to refute the point properly because you simply can't. You're also putting words in my mouth because you know that you're wrong, you're simply wumming now which is a trend for our fellow Spurs residents as of late. I've never said that he'd struggle to make our squad, I'm constantly saying that he wouldn't be an upgrade for what we have in the starting XI and he would be a questionable upgrade on options for specific roles that our current CM players play, hence specifically mentioning Carrick's passing.
As for Carrick's and Dier's passing. Sure, there's not much between the completion % of the two, there's a gulf between rest of the stats, apart from pass length as is to be expected, since Dier plays a CB every now and then.
You've been proven numerous times by different people here that yes, we do have better DMs than Dier, you even look at the comparison between Herrera/Pogba/Dier couple of pages ago and Herrera, who's not a CDM by trade, is a superior CDM to Dier. He cannot even properly pad his stats up by playing in the CB to easily overtake Herrera, this is the funniest part. As for your fantastic defensive record, I actually took a peek how much better than ours it is in the league. We have conceded two goals more than the mighty Spurs and their fantastic defensive record. Two goals more than a team that plays 352/532/523 system. Two goals. Let that sink in.
You can obviously keep on with your silly digs about future Ballon d'Ors, keeping the ball from free kick in the stadium, not scoring goals by player X, not scoring goals against a team Y as that's the only thing that's left for you because you're wrong in principle. That's only as much as you can achieve really. Funnily enough.
Roughly translated as;
'I'm sorry for taking absolute and utter bollocks. Please forgive me. I will never darken your door again. I should know better than to get into a football debate with fans of the most successful English club ever. It won't happen again Sir'
You are forgiven. Now run free my Scouse friend and steal hub caps into the night.
Now you've got that off your chest, I'll meet you round the back of the bike sheds for our pissing contest.
At my school the kissing went on behind the bike sheds. Not sure what you're getting at but I'll pass thanks.
@TheReligion @PickledRed - this is an Eric Dier discussion thread, so please take your personal arguments elsewhere. Cheers!
So you would rather kiss him?
@TheReligion @PickledRed - this is an Eric Dier discussion thread, so please take your personal arguments elsewhere. Cheers!
He's trying to kiss me behind the bike sheds because I proved his bizarre comments about Dier having a better season than Pogba and Hererra wrong.
It must be my cologne.
No. I'm avoiding the bike sheds as I suspect he wants to whisper sweet nothings about the real treble in my ear and kiss me.
I do not want this.
Fair enough, it's a dirty business.
I don't see the point in comparing him with Herrera and Pogba as they have different roles in a midfield. I see some saying he'd get into this United side and I think they are right simply on the basis that we only have 1 holding midfielder and he's 35, so by default he'd get in to balasnce out Pogba and Herrera in a proper 3. The problem is that we should be aiming higher when investing in the holding role in the summer.
Dier is an extremely versatile player and very tactically aware, so he strikes me as one of those players that managers will love for his entire career but fans never quite appreciate the same way.
Last season he played as something of a hybrid CDM / CD depending on if Spurs were in or out of possession - allowing Rose and Walker to push very high and he would drop centrally in between Alderweireld and Vertonghen as they split wide. It was a role that required a lot of discipline and awareness as his tactical position changed every time possession did. This season he's playing on the right side of a defensive 3, but with Walker basically playing as a winger he's again given a flexible role where he's something in between a center half and a traditional right back. He also gives Pochettino the flexibility to change between a back 3 and a back 4 during a match without changing personnel - against Burnley Spurs lost both center midfielders so Dier stepped forward, the defensive shape changed and it worked seamlessly.
Dier is good but not great at a lot of things. He's a strong defender, but he can be got at by physical players in the air. He's a good but not excellent passer. He's good at keeping possession but not brilliant, etc, etc. His tactical awareness and understanding are second to none though, and his willingness to be disciplined and play various roles makes him valuable to a manager to likes to change shapes / defenses, often on the fly.
Mourinho doesn't strike me as the type that likes to fiddle with his team formation much - and that means a lot of Dier's value is probably lost in that scenario, and it would make more sense to have a specialist. For a manager like Pochettino or Conte or Guardiola who likes to constantly change shape (though Conte hasn't much this year due to a very thing squad), his flexibility makes him a lot more valuable.
He strikes me as something like an English Mascherano. Able to play in a number of positions well, reliable and never complaining. Obviously he's done nothing to this point to match Mascherano's career, but he's the same age now as Mascherano was when he first appeared for Liverpool so he has a long ways ahead of him.
Last season he played as something of a hybrid CDM / CD depending on if Spurs were in or out of possession - allowing Rose and Walker to push very high and he would drop centrally in between Alderweireld and Vertonghen as they split wide. It was a role that required a lot of discipline and awareness as his tactical position changed every time possession did. This season he's playing on the right side of a defensive 3, but with Walker basically playing as a winger he's again given a flexible role where he's something in between a center half and a traditional right back. He also gives Pochettino the flexibility to change between a back 3 and a back 4 during a match without changing personnel - against Burnley Spurs lost both center midfielders so Dier stepped forward, the defensive shape changed and it worked seamlessly.
Dier is good but not great at a lot of things. He's a strong defender, but he can be got at by physical players in the air. He's a good but not excellent passer. He's good at keeping possession but not brilliant, etc, etc. His tactical awareness and understanding are second to none though, and his willingness to be disciplined and play various roles makes him valuable to a manager to likes to change shapes / defenses, often on the fly.
Mourinho doesn't strike me as the type that likes to fiddle with his team formation much - and that means a lot of Dier's value is probably lost in that scenario, and it would make more sense to have a specialist. For a manager like Pochettino or Conte or Guardiola who likes to constantly change shape (though Conte hasn't much this year due to a very thing squad), his flexibility makes him a lot more valuable.
He strikes me as something like an English Mascherano. Able to play in a number of positions well, reliable and never complaining. Obviously he's done nothing to this point to match Mascherano's career, but he's the same age now as Mascherano was when he first appeared for Liverpool so he has a long ways ahead of him.
Hes similar to Daley Blind, who does most basic things right, versatile and an asset to the team. Blind is average LB, CB, DM. Dier is average DM, CB.
We should have given more chances to Schneiderlin (He proved to be the best DM in PL for a season, played B2B next, came to United and not improved and that ship sailed) or now use Blind in DM rather than buying another average joe for 35m+ who is not even a homegrown player. Currently, The midfield 3 of Blind, Herrera and Pogba will be good for United in big matches.
If you can't take it, maybe you shouldn't dish it out.Not really my point, but ok.
Excellent post!
Why would we want him?
Why would we want him?
Cause he plays in the role that Jose desperately needs filled in his first team and can cover other positions. Having said that for the money mentioned £40M you could definitely get a cheaper alternative who could fill that same role. Dont get me wrong I love Dier in our team, has a very strong personality beyond his years and IMO is a future captain.
I think the post was a sarcastic reply as it was made just after Dier scored yesterday.
Yeah as Damien said. I'm one of his biggest fans on the forum tbf.
Last summer: https://www.redcafe.net/threads/wha...mer-2015-edition.409378/page-26#post-19354039
Sorry
If that's what it takes c'est la vie. Probably relative to what Carrick was back in the day against today's market.
He is a Spurs player so according to the cafe he is
A Too good for Manchester United since Spurs are now better than us
B Unattainable anyway because the evil Lord Levy will ask for a bajillion quid
C Shite and we dont need him,
A Too good for Manchester United since Spurs are now better than us
B Unattainable anyway because the evil Lord Levy will ask for a bajillion quid
C Shite and we dont need him,
He's literally the perfect player for United this summer; Carrick needs to be replaced, and Dier is similar with his distribution and clever occupation of space, while also ticking the Mourinho box of being a 6'4, physically dominant specimen as well. Pogba needs such a platform to neutralise his own weaknesses, moving forward.
Him being played out of position for the majority of the season to accomodate Wanyama makes it a viable possibility to convince him to move north this summer. £40m would be a fantastic long-term investment.
I'd really rather we didn't.
Me too.
Oh yeah, he scored, let's get him.
Let's get Kouyate off WHU as well while we're at it because he scored too.
Let's get Kouyate off WHU as well while we're at it because he scored too.
We're after a CDM, who cares if he scores or not. Eric Dier is different to other english players, he get his grounding in Football in Portugal with SP, he's not just another Lee Cattermole. He's exactly what we need to cover our back four and cover for pogba (or pogba and Herrera) in midfield.
Dier is clearly not a more intelligent passer of the ball than Carrick, but he and this Tottenham team have so much present and future in them it's not true.
There aren't many like Carrick. If we can't find someone like Carrick we then need to change how we use our midfield and find the players who can do the job we expect from the midfield.
Think Jose would love Dier. Kind of player who does what it says on the tin. It's Pogba he is probably having trouble determining the ideal role for.
I think that as well. And plus he also ticks the britishness item so many ppl tend to appreciate (although he comes from our Academy). I doubt this deal will happen but if it does i hope we also get some money
Dier is average at best and the only reason United are linked with him is because he's English. We don't want him thanks.
And please stop comparing him to Carrick, the mere suggestion is an insult. Carrick is superior in every way imaginable - only a Spurs fan or an ABU would disagree.
And please stop comparing him to Carrick, the mere suggestion is an insult. Carrick is superior in every way imaginable - only a Spurs fan or an ABU would disagree.
Well, I think Dier is uncannily like Carrick when United first signed Carrick, so there!